Tesla promised a 35k Model 3 in 2016.

Entering that into a CPI inflation calculator, that is $50k in 2026 dollars due to inflation.

A Model 3 today starts at $38, which is WELL BELOW the 2016 promise. Corrected for inflation, that's roughly $28k in 2016 dollars

They effectively overdelivered on that promise.

The complaint here, is that Chinese manufacturers, who are mostly in a death battle against each other and not profitable are even cheaper than Tesla and Toyota. In the long run, I suspect that picture will simply not be sustainable for those companies.

The biggest obstacles to Chinese vehicle sales in the United States are political and they are tremendous. Whichever party is blamed for their entry will lose Michigan for a generation and car dealership owners across the country

That's where the power is

I would say it is more likely to do with the fact that:

* BYD is new in Japan (since 2023) compared to other automakers which have built up trust over many decades.

* There are only 55 BYD dealerships in Japan vs 5,000 Toyota dealerships, 2,200 Nissan dealerships, 2,200 Honda dealerships, 1,500 Suzuki dealerships, etc.

* BYD offers a limited range of models in Japan - 6 in total. No minivan, for example, where minivans make up 6 of the 10 best selling (non-kei) car models in Japan

* Japan is very slow to adopt EVs in general. Charging infrastructure is poor

* BYD EVs and PHEVs qualify for a much smaller CEV rebate [1] than Japanese models, Teslas, etc. This eats away at much of the cost benefits

* BYD only just introduced their first kei model to Japan last month. It has been well reviewed, but even BYD isn’t expecting to sell a ton of them in their first year, let alone first month, due to the aforementioned circumstances.

Or we could just say it’s because Japanese are racist and won’t buy Chinese things - despite the fact that 22% of all Japan’s imports currently come from China. Because that feels correct, I guess?

To be clear I do recognize that are tensions between Japan and China. And there are plenty of Japanese people who would prefer to buy Japanese-made goods, or prefer to avoid Chinese-made goods (to the extent that's even possible). But there are plenty of Americans, Europeans, etc who feel similarly - and they aren't typically called racist for having the same preferences. There are valid reasons like wanting to support domestic businesses, or not relying on geopolitical rivals for manufacturing, that have nothing to do with racism. Canadians are boycotting US goods right now, for example. Is that because Canadians are especially racist?

And Japanese consumers are just as price sensitive as anyone else. As the end of the day, if they can get more car for less money buying Chinese cars (and if the cars and sales and support process can be sufficiently tailored to Japanese preferences), then Chinese automakers can be successful in Japan.

[1] https://www.cev-pc.or.jp/hojo/pdf/R7ho/R7ho_meigaragotojouge...

Isn’t saying Japanese are known to be racists a bit racist?

Please don't. The arrogance with which they handle this situation is mind-boggling. Everyone else is blamed except their own greed and awful decision making. Germany and Europe will recover from this eventually and we're going to be better off without the auto lobby.

VW doesn't sell new ICE models in the sub 25k€ segment anymore. Their new entry level car ID. Polo is an EV and when decked out (slight hyperbole, I primarily mean the battery upgrade) is costing the same the hypothetical $35k base Model 3 that never really existed in the first place, maybe it does today. Not to mention the 25k€ base model is not only real, but it is even acceptable if you don't care about range. Might still want to have some addons though.

Ehhh we should support them otherwise they will come to kill us all again?

No, if they do that it's 100% on them.

And the German auto industry is really corrupt. See what they did at Volkswagen scamming the system and then refusing to own up to it.

I don't buy any cars anymore and if I did it wouldn't be German.

Personally I think it's time for the personal car to disappear anyway. Even an EV still pollutes a lot, it's not just about CO2.

Personally I won't, the amount of greed and contempt for customers in the EU automotive world is absolutely insane, they need all to feel the pain, at least a bit to remember that their place isn't a given, that they have to work for customers.

A good chunk of them don't even follow EU laws on warranty.

Dacia Spring is also made in China.

Europe isn't good example either as it's heavily tarriffed

Isn't that similar to how Emirates is profitable (~16% before tax as of the last fiscal year) while providing a more luxurious service? For both, the line between state and corporation is blurry enough that you could argue both are subsidized to starve out international competition.

Emirates claims no subsidies at all; BYD's disclosed direct grants alone are about a third of their cumulative lifetime profit, let alone indirect subsidies.

People don't buy a new car every 2 to 3 years. While people would like their car to work for at least 10 years if not more. It also has much higher resale value compare to a phone.

And while I think Nokia phone are quite sturdy, I wouldn't necessary put them equate it to "quality". Especially when it was compared to an iPhone.

Toyotas aren't just for show either, like they are the top of their game 4x4s, they sell everything from utility vehicles for mining and military use, all the way up to luxury models.

That is completely different from the system management software that handles the drivetrains, braking, etc. Toyota has been good on system management. Just because those both use code, don’t confuse the hardware management code with the Infotainment code.

How does that matter when CarPlay is full screen?

They're already at the kind of range I'd be happy to trade off the other way.

I don't need 400 mile ranges; I'm happy to half that to get a shorter front so I can see the corners, a squared off hatch at the back, and proper headroom. Basically give me a smaller Transit van.

I absolutely abhor the spaceship design of all modern EVs (and even some ICE vehicles). both exterior and interior.

especially with how screen-centric they typically are.

This is why people buy Teslas. My experience on much larger road trips (Montana to TX or CA) is I would never, ever want to do one again in a petrol vehicle.

Why? A lot of EVs these days comes with a heatpump so heating doesn’t use that much power. I live in a cold country where 98% of new cars are EVs and I have never heard anyone asking for something like this. A quick search on popular EV forums shows a few threads from 2010-2014. That’s it. I know webasto has a product like this, but there’s practically zero cars on the road with it installed.

Every ev already has this today, 10 years ago it was in some leading cars like teslas. Only the leaf and a few others didn't have battery heating and cooling, and the fact that so many think those problems are in all evs set back the whole market.

A 10 year old tesla can heat and cool the battery before leaving, you could set a daily time to heat it up, or just turn it on just before you go manually if you wished.

This feels like something that would be offered by US/Canada manufacturers as a niche option, and nowhere else. Norway seems to be coping just fine without it.

(China also has regions of extreme cold; it would be interesting to see how regional EV adoption/adaptation has happened there)

In high school, one of my friends had a VW (air cooled) with a torpedo heater installed that would heat the interior to 30 degrees C in a matter of minutes - no matter how cold it was outside.

Likewise, in university, my friend's army jeep had a gas heater that would melt snow off his canvas roof.

People are consuming 30% of their battery power to heat the vehicle and batteries - and that's with reduced battery range. It only makes sense to add a container for gas/diesel and a heater - really can't understand why manufacturers are against instant and very low cost heat as an option to protect range and increase safety (in case you're stranded in the winter with a depleted battery).

Best of luck adapting one to your vehicle.

Volvo's first electric car had this, I always thought it was neat (I rented one a few times through a car sharing service that had them) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_C30#C30_DRIVe_Electric_(...

EVs should always be plugged in. There is electricity wherever it is parked. Heating or cooling can be done using grid, instead of onboard battery.

EVs play a role in the energy ecosystem. They absorb excess production during the day and can supply power back to the grid by participating in a virtual power plant (VPP).

Webasto. They make a really decent little unit, easy to integrate too.

I have been waiting for a manufacturer to finally embrace this tech. I know electric buses already do it. I think people just have a mental barrier about this because EVs are supposed to be eco friendly.

I really hope you succeed

You mean wood pellet heaters. Then you can pretend it is CO2 neutral.

Not meaningless, just less meaningful year over year.

The cheapest car available in Australia is now an EV, and it's an EV-only platform.

https://thedriven.io/2026/09/16/australias-cheapest-new-car-...

It was 30% in the early 2000s, now it’s around 24%. Hence what I meant by falling. By volume it’s even worse: China is basically allowing many people in the developing world to own cars for the first time, as well as fuel them without expensive oil imports.

lol, this is complete nonsense. The average person has non idea how the electricity grid works or how much capacity it has. "The grid will collapse" is just FUD spread by the oil industry and parroted by the boomers who run electricity companies.

Even in a city like Bombay, with a famously unplanned electric grid, people are buying electric scooters not because the government told them to, but because it's cheaper. Bombay has yet to have this "overload" that so many here seem to fear.

BYD already sells cars that cost less than $10,000 with a 5 star NCAP rating. And there are even cheaper Chinese EVs costing less than $6000 (OK, they're deathtraps but for some people that doesn't matter). And they're not junk either. They work and cut a few corners here an there. Good enough for a lot of price-conscious buyers.

Most importantly: they have LFP batteries which last much longer than Li-ion ones in addition to being safer.

New EV from Renault and Fiat are below 25K Euro in Europe without subsidies. They are still more expensive than similar sized gasoline cars with manual gear shift, but the difference is small and will pays off in few years.

No it's not. If you live in a flat where are you going to charge the thing? Around here there's almost no charging points and the ones that are there are constantly occupied.

I gladly don't own a car but if I did it would be an ICE for sure.

Trickle charging overnight on standard AC is more than enough for a standard commuter, of course YMMV ;)

If you can plug your car into a standard 120v 15a outlet that will give you about 35-45 miles of range overnight. Unless you have a really long commute, that's probably enough on average, and if you have a week where you're driving more you can supplement your charging by going by a public fast-charger. 240v 15a gives you twice as much charging and probably doesn't require very expensive electrical upgrades, just finding a circuit you can dedicate to the car and swapping the breaker+outlet.

You might not need a L2 charger at home depending on driving habits?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NG4hycq8n0

I own an EV while living in an apartment building with only an outside parking spot and with no EV charger at my spot, and it’s so fine. Granted I only do 1000km per month on average, but still - every other week I just leave my car parked overnight at an AC charger near my apartment complex and I’m covered, while the cost of ownership is much lower than a typical ICE car

Just a heads up, you don't need an electric panel upgrade anymore for charging. There are UL-certified systems that monitor the power use for the whole panel and load shed the EV charger if needed.

I installed one from Emporia, for about $500.

Can your board run a hairdryer 12h? If you can you can produce 24kwh or basically 100-150km driving per day.

At least you have a charger option. The non-rich of us who rent appartments have none. The four chargers in my biulding would cost more per-mile than buying gas... if they were working. They are currently down for some random reason (new cell provider, no connectivity in our carpark.)

You're right, I should have said "in the US". But it is the second biggest car market in the world, so it's not like we're irrelevant in the discussion.

This, EV market isn't US view , everyone should focus outside

I stand corrected (for the EU), I didn't notice the data splits out PHEV and HEV into two buckets.

The trend is obvious though, as EV adoption increases hybrid adoption goes down.

[flagged]

Norway is approaching 100% EVs, and while that's juiced by subsidies, the other Nordics are not far behind. Sure, the cold cuts the range a bit, but the vast majority of people don't need the full range every day.

> Zeekr 009

"Dual-motor variants produce up to 603–789 horsepower (450 kW to over 580 kW), delivering rapid acceleration comparable to sports sedans"

speaking about anemic minivan for soccer moms...

If your electricity comes from hydro, solar, wind - yes. If your electricity comes from fossil fuels - best power plant efficiency 60% - then not really. In US fossil fuels generate 60% of all the electricity.

The complexity of PHEVs is overblown in my opinion. My Toyota PHEV uses the exact same engine and electric motors as the equivalent HEV model. The only difference is the bigger battery and charging port. And Toyota HEVs have proven to be extremely reliable.

And yeah I've got to bring it in for oil changes, but that's no big deal for me. They also take care of other things like inspecting the car, changing wiper blades, air filters, putting on/taking off winter tires, and maintaining my coating. It's usually pretty quick (and they give me a loaner when it's not going to be quick), they are friendly, and they have snacks and wifi. It's also a relatively inexpensive compared to the total cost of owning a car.

There is some complexity for the driver in terms of deciding whether you want to drive in EV or Hybrid mode if you want to get the most out of it - so not something I would recommend for everyone - but no problem at all for me.

The bigger issue I would say it cost. They cost significantly more than HEV equivalents, and it's not something most people are likely to recoup in fuel savings. But still worth it IMO for additional (and instantaneous) power and quieter ride.

PHEV was definitely the no brainer option for me (vs EV) when I looked at the MPV options available in my country, and the state of charging infrastructure. But I look forward to the day when battery tech and charging infrastructure improve the the point where I can comfortably ditch the ICE.

Have you owned a full EV? I have never once wanted a PHEV since owning one. Full EV is better for me.

Neglecting a cabin air filter isn't going to make your EV fall apart. You can neglect that on an ICE too. Imagine how much worse these people would have it with an ICE vehicle - neglecting oil changes, oil filter, brake fluid, radiator coolant, air intake filter, spark plugs, valve cover gasket, power steering fluid, putting the wrong gas in, topping off with the wrong oil, etc...

I own my EV for 6 years+ already, still runs like new. Yeah, I do not know how to change my air filter, someone in my family changed it, and I only been in service once when my 12 volt battery died.

I was able to drive there, they did some breaks fluid change for free and thats it, meanwhile my friend with a bmw spent ~$2.5k in service since 3 years he bought it.

The only expense I had is changing tires, that i did in a regular tire shop.

Yeah keep laughing.

Are you saying EV owners are new to car ownership? Do you have sources for your claims? I have a hard time following your logic.

I'm pretty sure that the experience needed to perform the vast majority of maintenance work on an EV can be gotten in a week of interactions with ChatGPT.

Whereas something like doing your own oil change requires a lot of preparation to get right and then you still have the issue of disposing of the oil.

Obviously for repairs you are more screwed with an EV than with an ICE.