| ▲ | hn_submit 4 hours ago |
| I agree that it's much better to design an EV to be an EV from the ground up. The reality is, however, that consumers don't want EVs for a myriad of reasons and prefer hybrids. And developing two completely different platforms is too expensive even for a higly profitable company like Toyota. |
|
| ▲ | seanmcdirmid 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| You mean American consumers. Toyota still has to consider the rest of the world while America is basically a shrinking market now. |
| |
| ▲ | 7e 8 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | The US is roughly 30% of the world’s car spending, and if Toyota made a car only for the rest of the world, it would be more expensive than a competitor’s platform which is sold in EV and non-EV forms everywhere. An EV is still more expensive than the equivalent ICE and it would be even more expensive if it doesn’t share a platform. An EV built on a dedicated platform doesn’t become more profitable than the shared platform version until it sells about two million copies. That’s because it costs $1B more in fixed costs for a dedicated EV manufacturing setup. If that car isn’t going to sell that many, it’s not worth making dedicated. In Europe EVs are still outsold by ICE 4 to 1. Even if I did sell two million copies, all you have done is recouped your $1B, not made any more profit than if you did the shared platform. | |
| ▲ | 10 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
|
|
| ▲ | sammularczyk 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Might be true in some countries but EVs are rapidly becoming the highest sellers in many others. My experience is that once people experience an EV for the first time they prefer it over a hybrid/ICE car, unless there's a practical reason for needing hybrid range (which most people will argue but don't need day to day). |
| |
| ▲ | idiotsecant 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | In my area of the country there is one very simple modification manufacturers could make to ensure their vehicles are wildly more useful: add diesel heaters. Heat the batteries and the people during the winters rather than using onboard power to do it. It would sip diesel and contribute hugely to utility. I am in the process of building my own because nobody makes one | | |
| ▲ | jacquesm an hour ago | parent [-] | | Webasto. They make a really decent little unit, easy to integrate too. |
|
|
|
| ▲ | RussianCow 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Seems like a chicken-and-egg problem. Part of the reason consumers don't want EVs is because there are limited options that are any good. |
| |
| ▲ | Brendinooo 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | For me it's cost. I'd have to sink a couple of grand into getting my home electric up to speed most likely, and then I'll be paying a bunch of extra money to get the car. Turns into a math problem about paying for electric now or gas over the next n years and electric usually breaks even or loses. | | |
| ▲ | russelg 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Trickle charging overnight on standard AC is more than enough for a standard commuter, of course YMMV ;) | | |
| ▲ | taneq 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Depends whether they have access to 230V power. I’d want at least a 3.5kW charger, charging at half that would be miserable. | | |
| ▲ | fennecbutt an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | 3.5kw*12=42kwh. That's like half the capacity of a fairly decent range EV. How many people are really driving 240~ miles per day? Practically nobody...that's like 3.5 hours at motorway speeds. Inb4 the typical response of "every American commutes 99999 miles per day!!!" Charging at 1kw at home would be perfectly fine for average use cases. | | |
| ▲ | BobbyTables2 37 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Seems like it could get annoying if one wants a full charge but has to plan up to 4 days in advance, compared to a 10 minute gas station run. | |
| ▲ | remusrm an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
| |
| ▲ | ashdksnndck 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Why do you care how long home charging takes? It’s not like you have to hang out in or around your car while it’s charging, the way you do when filling it at a gas station. As long as your car charges enough overnight to make up for your average daily usage, you’ll be good. | | |
| ▲ | nomel an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | I had level 1, but it was just ridiculously slow. Still charging on a Tuesday, from going low the weekend before, was stupid, and made me unable to go some places. If you go above your average, it super sucks. I don't want to fill up, and I don't want to sit 10x longer than filling up with gas, at a charging station. | |
| ▲ | maxdo an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | i do charge at home, i have 50 Amps , fairly average around my area. I do charge at supercharges once every 3 months. I do travel ~20k miles a year. I never limit myself on when to go just because of charging. | |
| ▲ | an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
|
|
| |
| ▲ | gavinsyancey 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | If you can plug your car into a standard 120v 15a outlet that will give you about 35-45 miles of range overnight. Unless you have a really long commute, that's probably enough on average, and if you have a week where you're driving more you can supplement your charging by going by a public fast-charger. 240v 15a gives you twice as much charging and probably doesn't require very expensive electrical upgrades, just finding a circuit you can dedicate to the car and swapping the breaker+outlet. | | |
| ▲ | sippingabonedry an hour ago | parent [-] | | We had PHEVs that could do this <checks notes> ten years ago. All whilst looking like and driving like normal cars and not iPads on wheels. If all you need (and all you're capable of charging) is 35mi of range, buying an EV is incredibly stupid, and you are continually placing yourself at risk of running out of battery. If the threat of an unscheduled errand would leave you stranded, you bought the wrong car. EVs are impractical unless all (frequently unsaid) prerequisites are met. | | |
| ▲ | speedstyle 19 minutes ago | parent [-] | | You can drive hundreds of miles, but you'd only be able to charge 40-50. If your typical daily use is within that, you can go further at the weekend, or make an unexpected trip, and catch up over a few days (or at a fast charger) |
|
| |
| ▲ | NegativeLatency 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | You might not need a L2 charger at home depending on driving habits? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NG4hycq8n0 | |
| ▲ | cyberax 14 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Just a heads up, you don't need an electric panel upgrade anymore for charging. There are UL-certified systems that monitor the power use for the whole panel and load shed the EV charger if needed. I installed one from Emporia, for about $500. | |
| ▲ | sandworm101 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | At least you have a charger option. The non-rich of us who rent appartments have none. The four chargers in my biulding would cost more per-mile than buying gas... if they were working. They are currently down for some random reason (new cell provider, no connectivity in our carpark.) |
|
|
|
| ▲ | firecall 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| That is not true of Australia consumers. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/sep/04/ev-sales... |
|
| ▲ | SecretDreams 15 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I think if OEMs prioritized phevs more as a gateway drug, the transition to EVs would have been a lot less painful in NA. Even just driving a PHEV with 50km electric range makes you appreciate how great an EV can be. Sadly, there's few good PHEV options. And even Toyota underserves this market. |
|
| ▲ | trhway 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Current Toyota engines - several years in production already - used in hybrids have 40% thermodynamic efficiency, new Chinese engines (Geely and BYD) - 45% and soon coming out Toyota engine is claimed to hit 50%. With the numbers like this the hybrids ( and plugins, given the falling prices and increasing charge/weight density of the batteries) seem to still have a long and profitable path forward. Granted it may result in Toyota losing the battle in the long run. On the other hand any large improve in batteries may gradually bring Toyota into EV world just by letting to upsize the plugins' batteries. Personally i like very much my 2015 Prius Plugin, and the only thing i'd want about it is to have additional 20KWh of batteries (may be one day i'll throw them in myself :) |
| |
| ▲ | freetime2 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I drive a Toyota PHEV and love it. All of my daily driving is EV, and then I switch it into hybrid mode on the weekends for longer trips. Hybrids/PHEVs are great. But I would much rather be doing all of my driving in EV mode. I just think it's going to take another generation of battery improvements before we start seeing affordable 3-row MPVs (which is what I drive) with decent range. The VW Buzz and Kia PV5 have well under 300 miles range, for example. China does have some pretty awesome looking EV MPVs like the Zeekr 009, which supposedly gets up to 500 miles range. But that won't be available here any time soon. Improvements in charging speed and improved charging infrastruture will also help a lot. | | |
| ▲ | trhway 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Zeekr 009 "Dual-motor variants produce up to 603–789 horsepower (450 kW to over 580 kW), delivering rapid acceleration comparable to sports sedans" speaking about anemic minivan for soccer moms... | | |
| ▲ | SturgeonsLaw an hour ago | parent [-] | | Almost 800 horsepower is anemic? That's the same territory as a Porsche 911 Turbo S | | |
|
| |
| ▲ | dieortin 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Very impressive for a combustion engine, but still way worse than the ~90% efficiency of a battery electric car | | |
| ▲ | trhway 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | If your electricity comes from hydro, solar, wind - yes. If your electricity comes from fossil fuels - best power plant efficiency 60% - then not really. In US fossil fuels generate 60% of all the electricity. | | |
| ▲ | dieortin 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | 90% * 60% = 54%, which is still way better than the most efficient internal combustion engines. So even in that case an EV is still better. Plus, it gets greener when the grid gets greener. | | |
| ▲ | xedrac an hour ago | parent [-] | | I'm not super concerned about green energy, but i put solar panels on my roof and charge an ev because it's incredibly practical and a much better experience than the status quo. |
| |
| ▲ | TheOtherHobbes 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | If your power comes from fossils it's already been shipped half way around the world and refined, so that should be included in any efficiency calculation. | |
| ▲ | taneq 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | If you’re going to use the “well to wheels” number for electricity then you should do the same for ICE vehicles. Also, 40% of U.S. power generation is renewable? Impressive! |
|
|
|
|
| ▲ | maxdo an hour ago | parent | prev [-] |
| It's not consumers decision, it's a dealers mafia. If everyone on EV, you will not change oil and other gasoline attributes repairs. If you have hybrid, it's a cherry on the top, best of both worlds, pay for regular issues of gas and electric car combined :) |
| |
| ▲ | sippingabonedry an hour ago | parent [-] | | Lol @ all the "maintenance free" EV owners, can't wait for their dilapidated shitboxes to fall apart in 5 years time because they've never been serviced. Many get away with it because they lease them. Most EV owners don't even know there is a cabin air filter or how to change it, then go on Reddit and YouTube to complain their EV smells like mold and cat piss. It's insane how uninformed some of them are, they act like it's newfound knowledge that you need to fill the windshield washer fluid (which they boast about filling with tap water, or paying $100 to special order magical OEM Rivian fluid instead of a $2 jug at Walmart). | | |
| ▲ | xedrac an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Neglecting a cabin air filter isn't going to make your EV fall apart. You can neglect that on an ICE too. Imagine how much worse these people would have it with an ICE vehicle - neglecting oil changes, oil filter, brake fluid, radiator coolant, air intake filter, spark plugs, valve cover gasket, power steering fluid, putting the wrong gas in, topping off with the wrong oil, etc... | |
| ▲ | maxdo an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I own my EV for 6 years+ already, still runs like new. Yeah, I do not know how to change my air filter, someone in my family changed it, and I only been in service once when my 12 volt battery died. I was able to drive there, they did some breaks fluid change for free and thats it, meanwhile my friend with a bmw spent ~$2.5k in service since 3 years he bought it. The only expense I had is changing tires, that i did in a regular tire shop. Yeah keep laughing. | |
| ▲ | fumar an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Are you saying EV owners are new to car ownership? Do you have sources for your claims? I have a hard time following your logic. |
|
|