Yeah that is definitely the kind of thing we need regulation to address. In the market, the only power you have is to purchase or not. It ruins the free market's ability to function if the company you buy something from can remotely vandalize it after your purchase.

You don't need a TV. If there are only smart TVs then simply don't purchase one.

Most consumers are unwilling to take an option that they perceive as inconveniencing them more than getting screwed by the company inconveniences them.

> Many people don't choose what OS they use for work, and even when one can pick, the environment we exist in is one where being less productive is often hard to afford.

Sure, but I also think that a lot of the issues with Windows 11 don't really matter much if its just used as a work OS. For example, I refuse to upgrade my home PC to 11, because I don't want Microsoft to spy on me; however, when I am using my work computer, I know that I am already being spied upon, so that's not a concern for me.

Not even companies have a choice, for the most part. Their choice of operating system is dictated by the applications they need to run, and only the smallest and most unsophisticated businesses can generally get away with nothing but a web browser.

There is a whole ecosystem that needs to move before they can move.

iPhone adoption in the enterprise wasn't because of IT. When consumer preference is strong things tend to happen.

Those laws used to apply, until the courts adopted Robert Bork's "consumer welfare standard" in the 80s, under Reaganism.

Analyzed well here: https://yalelawjournal.org/pdf/e.710.Khan.805_zuvfyyeh.pdf

Apple only holds on monopoly position on the smartphone market for people with lots of money.

They aren't a majority in any other market segment.

> ChromeOS

“Boy, I hate operating systems from evil gigantic corporations that constantly spy on us. I know the solution, let’s use a Google product!”

Yeah exactly. But I don't think my local state university, my wife's accounting firm, or my clients are going to ever switch from Windows, no matter how user hostile it becomes. One could dream.

You can even keep that Office365 subscription going on Linux via the web apps these days. They are buggy as hell, but no more buggy than the Mac versions in my experience (haven't used the Windows versions enough to compare...)

It’s absolutely adorable to include macOS in that list, as though good ol’ Tim Apple is the White Knight standing up for consumers and always doing the right thing. MacOS and Windows are working from the same playbook. The specifics vary, but leaving one for the other is like running from an abusive boyfriend to his slightly-richer and slightly-better-looking best friend who acts just like him.

> I think consumers largely have stopped taking out their wallet for Microsoft, at least enough of them to cause Microsoft to start walking back a little bit.

Microsoft has largely stopped asking consumers for money. The last paid upgrade was Windows 8, IIRC. Since then, Microsoft wants consumers to upgrade, so it's free, with full screen prompts at login, and sometimes the 'no thanks' button just does it anyway.

Microsoft sells consumer OSes to OEMs. I haven't been looking, but I assume they don't allow OEMs to install Windows 10 Home anymore; and maybe not even Windows 10 Pro. So when consumers buy a new PC, they're getting Windows 11. The only Linux option at most stores is Chrome OS, which Google is shutting down, and is just a browser for most users (it's a useful product! a lot of users just need a browser; but it's not a platform of empowerment)

The past: Nobody got fired for buying IBM.

The present: Nobody got fired for buying Microslop.

Windows OS is just an onramp for their cloud services. That's their focus, now.

But the money is coming out of our pockets. The costs of the ads are added to product prices, which everyone is paying.

*nix is not a viable option? That's news to me.

I agree it's not as easy as pre-installed, but it definitely is viable.

And I think it is fair to acknowledge that Linux doesn't fit the needs of all people. The thing is, the flip side is also true. While I can pick up my (admittedly technical) hobbies under Windows, it is more convenient under Linux. Without the FLOSS ecosystem, I could not afford to do so at all.

That's kind of my experience dabbling into Linux as well. You're effectively turning your laptop into a fancy tablet, which is okay only if you're not doing some professional work in specific niches that are mostly seamless with macOS/Windows. Niche hardware usually is out of the question.

Not to address/counter your comment, but because it might be helpful: if that's a Focusrite interface, the company itself points to an open source project in its support documentation.

https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-gb/articles/208530735-Is...

I haven't actually tested it, but it seems like it works for people, and it's solid enough to have the kernel component in the kernel. I found it while researching a possible move with my Vocaster One.

You probably made the right decision. In my opinion, DHH is underselling how terrible the keyboard on the Dell XPS is. I bought the lunar lake XPS and I hate the keyboard so much, I turned it into an expensive Jellyfin server and bought a $275 thinkpad T14 on ebay to use instead. Maybe the keyboard on the panther lake version is better, but my fingers just get lost with the flat keys. In addition, they are super low-travel and mushy. I gave it a few months and just couldn't handle typing on it anymore.

Then at least let the company that makes your niche software know that you want a Linux version of it, even if you don't use Linux (yet). We need to solve this chicken / egg problem. Nobody wants to use Windows, they want to use some specific application. If most software is available on Linux too, then consumers can actually choose their OS.

> nearly everyone has some niche thing they like, some 5% that isn't covered by the FOSS

I'm interested in where that estimate + number are coming from. And I'd like to point out that I don't nearly see as many people pushing back against say MacOS for "not being Windows", despite the fact that the same issue would be there. I wonder why Linux gets special treatment in that regards, when modern distros make usage very accessible.

> And that doesn't even get into gaming.

Gaming on Linux works very well. And if something doesn't, it's usually by choice (e.g. BattleEye customers not enabling it on Linux) or by sheer incompetence / malevolence (e.g. EA Games and their shitty EA App that breaks often even on Windows, and even worse on Linux in a Wine environment).

> No, "learn the FOSS version" is not a solution

Hard disagree. Not that it has to be FOSS, but you have a product that is predatory towards you and you refuse to change your ways.

Leaving an abusive relationship is hard, but sometimes you have to do it.

>No, "learn the FOSS version" is not a solution.

It is a solution. Once you do it, your problem is solved, that makes it the solution. If you aren't willing to go with that, you can stay with Windows and just accept the constant abuse.

As for gaming, I've been on Linux for two years now and I haven't had a single game not work.

Well acktshually, gaming is a really good example. Valve did a lot of good with Proton to the point that a lot of games work and work well.

Perhaps ironically, Wine may be the best stable API on Linux. I'd like to see a concerted and well-funded effort to make Wine run certain Windows applications well. We might not be able to replace the Adobe Suite short-term by a FOSS alternative for most of its users, but we might be able to get Wine to run the Adobe Suite, Affinity Suite, and whatnot well enough to make it possible to switch and keep running these applications.

<< No, "learn the FOSS version" is not a solution.

It actually is. It may not be the best solution, but it absolutely is one of available solutions. = Not being able to ( or wiling to ) learn ( and adjust ) as needed is part of the reason we are here.

I am not being nitpicky here. Reasonable people don't hope things will change; instead, they change things they can.

> Most people want a computer that works with their software.

I suspect that most people don't run much software at all outside of their web browser and wouldn't notice any difference between using chrome in windows and using chrome in linux. Gaming is not the barrier it used to be either.

Not even that! Most people want a computer that lets them get the tasks they want to do done, in the way that uses the lowest effort.

If they want to edit a photo, and they're used to Photoshop, then Photoshop will be lower effort than a competitor just as Photoshop is lower effort than darkroom editing film. Competitors have to be lower effort or offer significantly better features than incumbents. Product cost is a part of the effort needed to use that product, but far from the entire thing.

Well, considering that you can run almost anything (excluding games and specialized graphics software) with 99.99999% guaranteed result via WinApps, I don't see what the issue is for a hypothetical member of the majority population.

It's not 2016 anymore, you don't have to switch to LibreOffice if you need an office suite of apps.

That obviously would be preferable, but if you're an avid Microsoft ecosystem user, just use WinApps. It's simple enough to the point that a child could use it.

> Most people want a computer that works with their software. No, "learn the FOSS version" is not a solution.

Why is that argument always applied against Linux, and never against for instance macOS, which also can't run Windows software?

For better or worse, well mostly worse, most of the software people use these days is either directly running in the browser or is electron based so running perfectly fine on Linux.

Gaming on Linux is a mostly solved issue for anyone that doesn't do competitive multiplayer gaming. If a game isn't using some root kit level anti-cheat or copyright protection, it is going to run just fine. Same with running most other software.

The only part where Linux is sucks is for certain creatives fields. If you need Adobe products you are out of luck. Video editing well you use Da Vinci or free software. There are some good DAWS but no Ableton.

Yes, you have to compromise but Linux is definitely getting there. Not everything runs on Mac either and people cope just fine.

Cool. Windows can't do 99% of the things I and anyone not grasping at straws can do with Linux.

It is getting tiring, I don't say Linux is perfect, but KDE has been better than Windows for years, Linux doesn't bit rot like an average Windows install and Linux is in practice surprisingly more stable, but no-no-no, Linux can't be this time again. Quick... ehm "there is a piece of software that only works on Windows". Have you ever thought the reverse holds too, but times 1000?

If you call yourself an IT-professional, you only run spyware.exe in a vm or in a box with all networking gear ripped out and you don't making stupid excuses.

Good news re: gaming is with SteamOS/Bazzite gaming on Linux is finally near-turnkey. Only thing I had to adjust on my bazzite computer was zram, otherwise I’ve never had to open the terminal (unless I wanted to). Expedition 33 ran perfectly day 1.

I do agree with your larger point though. It’s the same reason everybody doesn’t change the oil in their car on their own or cook their food every night over ordering out. Only it goes even further because by this point most people expect a computer to just do what it’s supposed to do (or they think it’s supposed to do) the first time they try. I can’t imagine asking my parents to start inputting terminal commands. Even just the process of something like running etcher and prepping a usb drive to install linux is a whole thing.

> And that doesn't even get into gaming.

Or Accessibility, which the Linux desktop is notoriously bad with, since, what, 20 years. The constant push to rewrite things typically forgets making Accessibility a priority, for the sake of "progress".

Most games nowadays run perfectly fine on Linux.

Which kind of poisons? Can you list more?

Windows has only one major advantage over Linux, it comes preinstalled with all required hardware support.

Both installing Windows and installing Linux can be difficult for most people. I have done both professionally and when installing Windows I have encountered frequently more serious problems, which required much more time to solve than the problems encountered when installing Linux.

For those who have someone else to install and configure Linux, it is at least as easy to use as Windows.

My parents, more than 80-years old, have used for many years Linux without any problems and they have no idea what Linux is, they just know the applications that they are using for viewing and editing documents, e-mail, Internet browsing, music or movies listening or watching, TV watching or recording (with TV tuner) and so on.

First of all that's only Ubuntu, but also at this stage uutils is way more compatible with the GNU tools than Apple's tools are.

No general user that is now using Windows would come in contact with the edge cases were the rewrites differ from the standard utilities.

Anybody on HN that didn't know that you can build a machine from parts or isn't capable do doing so is probably on the wrong website ;)

I keep mental tabs on the number of videos you can see from the home page on desktop.

We crossed an all-time record recently.

We get a 2 rows x 3 column grid now. The upper left is an ad, the lower row are clipped in half to coach scrolling, bringing the total to 2 thumbnails.

I feel like a junkie whose dealer tripled their prices and cut the drugs with 80% filler; sobriety by cartoonish consumer exploitation

There seems to be a pretty wide gulf between "segregate consumers and content creators" and "please let me make it so that I can remove/disable the huge central button I never use that takes up a lot of space and is super easy to accidentally hit"

We see this same phenomenon play out in other industries too, like cars.

That version of capitalism sailed 40 years ago in the USA, antitrust enforcement has slowly disappeared which creates a race to the bottom for other countries who would like their companies to compete against USA's companies. If they enforce antitrust then the behemoths created in the USA by absorbing competitors without antitrust enforcement can eat their lunch, even though it's better for consumers.

Unfortunately this also allowed the USA to have companies so large that they basically control the government, changing this now will require massive political will and a political body untethered from corporate interests. I really don't see that happening in the USA, it's been thoroughly captured after so many years driving on that path.

Yes, the neo-liberal economy we've ended up with has drifted quite far from well-regulated Capitalism. I'd still argue that we owe a lot of our rights to hard-fought socialist policy though.

Sometimes companies will make more money by refusing to give consumers what they want. Collusion is also extremely profitable. A competitor that isn't interested in playing along can be bought out, but once shareholders get involved they're going to insist on screwing over their customers just like everyone else does anyway because they'd be leaving a huge pile of cash on the table otherwise and short term profits are all shareholders care about.

What makes you think a competitor that "plays fair" can compete with a competitor that takes advantage of the system and extracts as much value as they can?

That argument doesn't really hold when the barriers of entry are so high. Believing that one of the biggest tech firms in the world is doing something undesirable and having a better idea that many people would in fact pay for is not the same as having the resources to become a unicorn with a huge global customer base that can practically implement that idea.

How the hell can healthy competition breed enshittification? That makes absolutely no sense to me.

Take an industry with healthy competition like restaurants. You can compete in price, quality, format, service and probably a lot more.

Now tell me how that competition enshittified eating at restaurants?

For me, nothing stands out. If a restaurant charges nonsense fees, under-staffs to increase profits, reduce portions with the same value, etc. I can simply go to another one. Restaurants that enshittify will almost inevitably close.

But if we look at a closely related industry like the food delivery apps, we see the same exact signs of enshittification we see on the tech world due to monopolies (or oligopolies to be more exact) like: - Increased/hidden fees

- Increased delivery times

- Crappy apps with ads everywhere

- Ineffective review systems

- Pay-to-win search

- Dynamic pricing

They can get away with it because realistically, you don't have any other options. The cost to entry might not be that high but the network effect all but prohibits competition.

lol Blame the plumber then.

"Infecting with screwdrivers" now see how dumb that sounds?

I recently began developing an app for Xbox Series X/S. The only framework that will work is UWP. When you look at the UWP docs, this is at the top of the page highlighted "If you are starting to develop Windows apps, we recommend you consider using the Windows App SDK, and WinUI rather than UWP. Although still supported, UWP is not under active development. Please see Start developing Windows apps for more information."

So no, React is a (poor) solution, not the problem. The problem is Windows can't nail down a solid SDK for it's platforms.

This metaphor is so stupidly bad it's hard to believe you guys even know what React is.

> a ridiculous electric screwdriver

So React, the most popular front-end library and used my hundreds of thousands of successful apps, is the ridiculous electric screwdriver? See how weird that sounds and makes it obvious you guys can't give an honest assessment?

"developers with infecting then with React" is 100% blaming React

What does "infecting them with React" mean?

The government haven't yet mandated you use windows. Yet. It will be soon, like with androids and iphones, for user identification so the government knows who sends every network packet.

That's mostly because they didn't care before. It also took a massive amount of work to get gaming to work on windows.

Purely hypothetical, hasn't happened yet. The reason is that Linux system vendors are lead and staffed by people who are idealistic like the average Linux system customer. They know their clientele, they know it would be bad for business.