Remix.run Logo
▲ macOS 15.8.2 Breaks OpenGL(developer.apple.com)
127 points by Audiophilip 2 hours ago | 79 comments
▲mosura an hour ago | parent | next [-]

The general Apple software quality decline seems to be accelerating. We are in the thousand papercut stage where lots of small things just don’t work properly.

One of my Macs has developed the most insane habit of losing audio output capability, and then tries to route it to another one - a feature I didn’t even know existed.

▲bshaughn 32 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

My Iphone has had some bugs in the last year that are so sloppy yet impactful its almost funny. About half the time im looking at my lock screen notifications, the screen will lock less than a second after touching the screen. I have had other issues as well, but for a company with so much money I expect a little more craftsmanship.

I have had other issues as well but something that actively locks my phone while I am obviously using it is an extremely frustrating start to my day.

▲mosura 11 minutes ago | parent [-]

Yeah iOS is headed the same way.

I now get stuck in the camera app half the time I try to use it, and other nonsense.

▲KaiMagnus 15 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The latest macOS, after a lot of praise, has proven to be really buggy to me. At least liquid glass only had poor readability, but now windows go missing/turn invisible almost daily and it’s getting seriously annoying.

▲grishka 20 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Audio problems aren't new. I remember that the last 10.9 build I was still using in 2016 had this bug where sound would just stop working every now and then. `sudo pkill coreaudiod` fixed it every time.

▲zitterbewegung an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I would agree with you if this wasn't a release candidate. I would wait and see at this point.

▲daem 35 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

This bug is one of many papercuts in Apple software.

Here’s another: Hide My Email’s “Forward To” feature is broken. You can’t change which email address messages get forwarded to. I have nearly 500 Hide My Email addresses and want to change the forwarding address, but can’t because the feature is broken.

▲robby_w_g 20 minutes ago | parent [-]

Wait, this is terrible news. I was planning to migrate off of Gmail using that feature

▲CharlesW 11 minutes ago | parent [-]

It does work great generally. Here's what changing your foward-to looks like: https://imgur.com/a/feSBCCN

I migrated family email hosting from Google Workspace to Apple iCloud+ Custom Email Domains a few years ago and it's been smooth sailing. Few people realize that Apple has been a high-volume email host since long before Google Mail. This is the guide I used: https://blah.cloud/miscellaneous/migrating-google-workspaces...

▲shantara 15 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The window manager bugs have been present since the first macOS 27 beta, and have made it unchanged to the current stable release.

▲coldtea 27 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

As if this is the only example in support of what the parent said? Or as if these are restricted to release candidates and beta versions?

▲ThouYS 12 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

you really have to wonder how they managed to mess up this bad, and why they're doing nothing about it.

local search is both broken on my mac as well as iPhone. I search for an app, and its app store entry OR settings pop up, not the app.

how does this persist? do they not use their own products anymore? have they simply given up?

▲rubslopes 3 minutes ago | parent [-]

Finder search has been broken for me for years I think, and that smart folder "Recents" never worked properly. It's puzzling how they can let this happen.

▲raffael_de 6 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

but you can fold the iphone now ... o.O

▲LoganDark 40 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

My Mac has developed the issue of slowing down over time if not rebooted. Heavy GPU use accelerates the decay. It feels just like swapping to disk except it's not - swap usage always 0. I didn't have this issue before Tahoe.

▲plqbfbv 12 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I once worked in L1 support, and because we had to take calls @07:00 sharp (we were the only number a company of 40k people could call) and Windows updates were still a multi-hour endeavor, I stuck to rebooting daily (or shutdown+startup) all devices I use heavily, including MacOS.

Over the past 8 years that has basically solved every bug all my colleagues ran into with MacOS. At some point my boss wasn't getting calendar notifications anymore for a couple weeks, "did you try and reboot?" fixed it in 5m. He later mentioned he hadn't rebooted in 7 weeks.

I don't understand why people treat Apple devices like unbreakable analog AM radios, they're very complex computers like any Windows or Linux machines, with a huge state machine beneath it that is easier to reset daily/weekly than to keep working properly for months.

▲CharlesW 29 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This isn't happening for me, if by "over time" you mean "several weeks" of heavy GPU use without a reboot. Consider the possibility that the root cause is not macOS.

▲LoganDark 25 minutes ago | parent [-]

By "over time" I mean that if I run local LLMs or play graphics-intensive games (like No Man's Sky's native Mac port) I can start seeing up to half-second (or longer) delays in switching apps, starting videos and much more with less than 5 days of uptime.

If I avoid doing those things, it can last much longer.

I have the 128GB/8TB M4 Max and I'm not even coming close to using up all or even most of the unified memory. I suspect it may be related to some form of fragmentation, though I have no way to know how.

▲CharlesW 20 minutes ago | parent [-]

I believe you, just suggesting that the issue may not be quite as general. I have a 64GB Studio M1 Max, so the years of hardware/firmware differences between us may be relevant as well. Hope you find a solution!

▲LoganDark 19 minutes ago | parent [-]

It didn't happen to me before the update, so I suspect it must be something about the update or how it interacts with the software on my system. Still, it's one of those issues I have no hope of seeing solved, because at this rate nobody doing development at Apple is actually going to leave a Mac running for days on end...

▲jon128 17 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

We may not be far off from finding LLM prompts embedded directly in software. Instead of savefile(data_thing), we might start seeing

  agentcall( claude, data_thing, "please save this file to the user's home directory" )

and the author of that code will pat him/herself on the back then form a habit of telling his/her friends "I am an engineer, I have built over 100 software programs spanning multiple continents".

I already see this behavior out of the tech support class that likes to participate in bureaucratic processes among gen z. The standards and expectations for what is colloquially "engineer", outside of bonafide engineering circles, has really fallen over the last two decades.

The attitude that replacing functions with calls to AI agents is like totally okay in software engineering will eventually seep in too.

▲LoganDark 14 minutes ago | parent [-]

https://github.com/cofob/autogenlib

▲ryandrake 24 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Sad but not surprising. Apple marked their OpenGL subsystem as deprecated all the way back in 2018 with macOS 10.14 Mojave and iOS 12. By some miracle it has kept working all that time. While I hate it that Apple can just up and declare a widely used cross-platform API 'deprecated,' it's their system, not ours. So, we should not expect them to care or lift a finger if they accidentally break it.

▲voakbasda 17 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

When they break stuff, developers should lift their middle finger in response. That they don’t I think reflects some kind of Stockholm syndrome.

▲nixpulvis 9 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Yes, this is the real continuation of that. I still don't agree with the deprecation, and hope the support will be continued.

▲Haunt1000 3 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Right I'm still on 15.5. But random app windows flicker! FLICKER! And it's a brand new 2025 M4 MacBook Air. This is the kind of thing I would expect from like Linux in say 1998?

▲jimmydoe a minute ago | parent | prev | next [-]

what, there are still regression in the age of AI? or OpenGL is never in regression test suite to begin with?

▲corysama an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Seems like a good time to mention that LunarG’s Vulkan-on-Metal wrapper reached Vulkan 1.4 conformance recently.

https://www.lunarg.com/the-state-of-vulkan-on-apple-oct-2026...

Now we need Mesa’s OpenGL-on-Vulkan to be production-ready when running on KosmicKrisp

https://docs.mesa3d.org/drivers/zink.html

▲zimpenfish 28 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Fails to reproduce on macOS Version 26.6 (25G70) (but I can't post a reply on the forums because developer.apple.com currently hates me.)

I get the green triangle and `hasDrawable=1 status=0x8cd5 glError=0x0` which is the expected result.

▲potatoproduct 11 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There's a few very annoying audio and Bluetooth bugs on MacOS. I've even installed 3rd party software to hack a fix one of them.

▲samtheprogram 12 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's a release candidate. That's what they are for, to catch bugs. Nothing to see here.

...except the interesting tidbits shared like this sibling comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50142208

▲1over137 39 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

WTH. 15.8.1 is current, 15.8.2 ought to be security fixes only.

▲steeleduncan 14 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

OpenGL is a low(ish) level hardware interface, that is almost certainly implemented in legacy unsafe code, so it will be fertile ground for CVEs. Presumably this is a security fix gone wrong

▲steve1977 26 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Maybe they asked Claude to fix a vulnerability?

Can't have OpenGL security issues without an OpenGL context

▲rfgplk 16 minutes ago | parent [-]

Here we're seeing what skill in using LLMs looks like.

▲sneak 33 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I can't comment on known issues or on whether or when a fix might ship. Your report is the right channel for the issue.

> As new builds become available, please retest and add the results to FB25133383. If you have access to the macOS 26.7.2 RC or the 27.2 beta, results from those builds belong there too.

Waste your donated time and effort testing against each new build, even though we won’t tell you if we even touched that subsystem between them.

If I were this bug reporter and got a response like that (after making a perfect report including a minimal reproducible test case) I would never donate another free bug report again.

▲thefz 17 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Brings back memories of when macOS broke samba, coincidentally the moment I decided to switch off the brand.

▲grumple an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The response from apple is insane, “please keep trying to reproduce this for us”. That is your job, apple engineer. As a manager of a large software org, a response like that from one of my engineers would drive me insane. Fix the damn problem or provide a timeline for addressing it. When you think the fix is released, then ask them if their issue was resolved.

▲bbkane 44 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I read the comments before the link and thought this was a bit harsh, but reading that response I now feel the same way you do.

The reporter ALREADY provided a minimal example and Apple is like "yup we're going to keep changing things and you need to keep rerunning the code you sent us and reporting here because we won't bother to run your minimal example ourselves".

Just wow.

▲tonyedgecombe 36 minutes ago | parent [-]

Giving the Apple engineer (but not Apple) the benefit of the doubt I guess their policy is not to make any promises or announcements in that channel. They have probably said as much as they are allowed.

▲voakbasda 10 minutes ago | parent [-]

Forward looking statements can come from anyone and become sticky when considering security laws. Imagine everyone at Apple was sharing their full triage and timeline for every issue; one can then make informed decisions about their stock price, and investors could sue if those statements turned out to be misleading. At a certain point, the risk is too great.

▲augment_me 14 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You need to get your head out of your bubble and realize that this bug does not move the needle on anything meaningful.

I work at a superscalar and we have also had about 40% increase in breaking bugs in prod year-to-year due to a lot of slop code. However, the engagement and revenue generated is up from the features. Why bother make a timeline and spend time and resources on things that the average user does not care about? Does the average person care about the OpenGL compatibility? No, so why would you spend effort on this instead of for example user engagement? Answer that.

▲vconnor 40 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

> please keep trying to reproduce this for us

There's an engineer that's used to solely interacting with agents.

▲Razengan an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You can ask an AI to go through my HN account and see that I used to be an unapologetic Apple fanbitch

Now I must soundly say: Screw Apple.

Momentum and their hardware quality are the only things setting them apart from other platforms, while their ecosystem and individual software products are going to shit.

There's no way to have ourselves heard by them. Their "official" forums are just peer support for users to bang heads against each other.

Ironically, our best hope for computing now is that someone eventually uses AI to make a better OS and ecosystem, like they've started doing with the Adobe and Office clones.

▲andsoitis 32 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

It might not be super healthy to be so emotionally invested in a company, its products, and its doings.

▲coldtea 24 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

What's the qualifier for "so" (in "so emotionally invested")? Did someone measure it and it's beyond the healthy range?

Parent is just passionate about the quality, or decline, of the tools he spend a good chunk of money of, and spends hours each day doing professional work with.

▲andsoitis a minute ago | parent [-]

> Did someone measure it and it's beyond the healthy range?

The person I responded to self-identified as an "Apple fanbitch". Now they categorically say "Screw Apple."

That seems like a pretty emotional attachment swinging from one extreme to another. Attachment will cause you pain.

▲Rohansi 29 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I agree with you but buying in to Apple's ecosystem is more than just being emotionally invested in a company. If all of the hardware you bought is going to shit because of what Apple is doing then I think it's fair.

▲andsoitis 25 minutes ago | parent [-]

The hardware doesn't change after sale.

▲coldtea 15 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

The hardware absolutely changes after sale, there have been cases of keyboard's failing (e.g. during the butterfly keyboards), backlight failures (happened to some MBP runs), cracked displays (keys pressing into them), anti-reflective coating peeling, hinge issues (in several models), display failures (discoloration, light leaks), issues with (dedicated) GPUs in intel era models, battery expansions, logic board failures (there was a program that had 2-3 rounds or replacements), touch strip failures, and many others. Also ever heard of planned obselense?

And that's just pure hardware. Hardware/battery performance dropping by OS updates has been well known, and there were a few class actions lawsuit Apple lost or settled and fined.

▲coldtea 15 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Ever heard of planned obsolescence? The hardware absolutely changes after sale, there have been cases of keyboard's failing (e.g. during the butterfly keyboards), backlight failures (happened to some MBP runs), cracked displays (keys pressing into them), anti-reflective coating peeling, hinge issues (in several models), display failures (discoloration, light leaks), issues with (dedicated) GPUs in intel era models, battery expansions, logic board failures (there was a program that had 2-3 rounds or replacements), touch strip failures, and many others.

And that's just pure hardware. Hardware/battery performance dropping by OS updates has been well known, and there were a few class actions lawsuit Apple lost or settled and fined.

▲andsoitis 13 minutes ago | parent [-]

Many of those examples are disingenuous. Planned obsolescence could explain some, but to suggest there's no such thing as price/durability trade offs, regular wear and tear, or just poor construction, and instead it is "hardware changes" is a weird take. Of course physical objects change over time!

▲coldtea 12 minutes ago | parent [-]

What exactly sounds "disingenuous" to you?

Someone bought the hardware. It worked. Then it stopped / was damaged, and not for bad use (e.g. operating it in the sun or dropping it or something).

>but to suggest there's no such thing as price/durability trade offs, regular wear and tear, or just poor construction, and instead it is "hardware changes" is a weird take.

Nobody suggested that, so that's an even weirder take.

The things mentioned are not "regular wear and tear" nor price/durability trade offs.

As for "poor construction", yes, that leads to hardware that changes to worse under you over time. Mind blown?

▲andsoitis 7 minutes ago | parent [-]

It sounds like you expect products to have zero defects, under any circumstances. There's a wide margin between shitty products and perfect.

Show me a single product EVER that doesn't have failure modes or that lasts forever.

None of this is to say I excuse poorly made products. But they generally are known before most people buy them, so a buyer can make an informed decision.

▲Razengan 30 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Oh yeah let's not be emotionally invested in the things you use everyday to do basically everything.

Try walking with a pebble in your shoe or sitting in a crooked chair or sleeping on a lumpy mattress and see how long before you get pissed, O Awakened Unattached Sage

Stop bending over for mediocrity.

▲andsoitis 24 minutes ago | parent [-]

> Stop bending over for mediocrity.

That's a false binary choice. You can also shift your purchases to other providers if you think a company is providing a shitty product.

▲93po 4 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I installed Asahi Linux on my Macbook Air recently and while it definitely took more effort than your grandparent would be capable of, it wasn't too bad. Getting FDE working was a pain for sure though.

The overall experience is good, aside from a few big areas: sleep mode still drains battery a ton, like 20-30% a day or more. And battery life in general while using it is pretty bad. And Firefox constantly runs out of memory and crashes.

Hopefully it improves soon. Even despite these issues I'm not going back to MacOS or Apple ecosystem again despite being a big fan of it and user for the last 7 years.

▲zamalek 27 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

There is already a better OS.

▲steve1977 23 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

But there is no Windows Phone anymore unfortunately.

▲PyWoody 14 minutes ago | parent [-]

I miss my Lumia 720 more than I miss some family members.

▲coldtea 14 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yeah, just not on the aspects that matter to some of us.

▲zamalek 6 minutes ago | parent [-]

Such as?

▲Razengan 16 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Linux? If someone can fix the ecosystem, I'm there.

▲api an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

These days you could just ask a bot to port your stuff from OpenGL to a newer API.

Backward compatibility is less of an issue when fixing legacy stuff takes $25 in tokens.

▲kcb an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Unfortunately there is no universally supported newer API thanks to Apple.

▲api an hour ago | parent | next [-]

In that case maybe the answer is $200 in tokens to make a metal OpenGL shim and then share it to the community on GitHub.

▲diath 13 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

ANGLE already does that: https://chromium.googlesource.com/angle/angle

▲mosura an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Given the comparable performance of OpenGL and Metal on the same hardware I was under the impression that is how Apple had been implementing OpenGL for quite a while.

▲my123 an hour ago | parent [-]

OpenGL on Apple GPUs is implemented on top of Metal with some private extensions to be closer to OpenGL behaviour. Making things work performantly on top of regular Metal is quite a bit harder.

▲LoganDark an hour ago | parent [-]

Not sure why this is downvoted, it's true: https://rosenzweig.io/blog/asahi-gpu-part-6.html

> Comparing traces, the render pass "OpenGL mode" sets an unknown bit in this kernel-processed block. If we set the same bit in our OpenGL driver, we find the clip space changes to -1/1.

▲eknkc an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Isn't https://github.com/google/angle just that?

Edit: I guess no, Angle is OpenGL ES. My bad.

▲charcircuit 32 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Metal is universally supported among Apple's product lines.

▲wongarsu 12 minutes ago | parent [-]

Just as useful as DirectX being universally supported in Microsoft's product lines.

The point of OpenGL was to have an API universally supported everywhere

▲jhatemyjob 4 minutes ago | parent [-]

That's a bad analogy

▲LoganDark an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Minecraft has been moving to Vulkan and using MoltenVK to run the same backend on Mac.

▲drnick1 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Shouldn't Apple be the one spending the $25 to deliver a product that works?

▲3form an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

"Why have X when Y costs $N in tokens" is becoming a tired thought-terminating cliche.

It shouldn't be user's responsibility to have to get their binaries to work at all costs.

▲poszlem an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

How about they spend $25 in tokens to fix what they broke?

▲photios an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Why, yes, of course, have all the devs in the world spend $25 and tons of time each, because Apple doesn't care about devs nor users.

/s