| ▲ | reconnecting 7 hours ago |
| Apple forced me to switch to Linux! Linux should consider paying Microsoft and Apple for new customers. Perhaps the customer acquisition funnel is quite long, at least it took 20 years of using Apple in my case before switching to Debian (Xfce), but it was worth it! |
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| ▲ | ecshafer 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| As a regular linux user for the last 20 years, who had used windows for games for about 25 of the last 30 years. When I had gotten a macbook pro for work in a company that was all apple there were three things that stood out: The M processors are amazing, the apple hardware is really good, and mac os is absolutely awful. I have no idea how people use mac. |
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| ▲ | al_borland 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > mac os is absolutely awful. I have no idea how people use mac. I hear this from a lot of people when they get their first Mac. When they get specific about what their issues are, it tends to be that macOS doesn't do a thing how they are used to doing it, which is more of a learning curve issue, or rigid thinking. Apple software can be quite opinionated, those who fight against those opinions tend to have a hard time. This is true of any opinionated software. | | |
| ▲ | BeetleB 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Apple software can be quite opinionated, those who fight against those opinions tend to have a hard time. This is true of any opinionated software. And this is why many like me prefer Linux. We have our own opinions, and Linux enables us to enforce our opinions. I've been a Linux guy for 25 years, and used Windows at work for the last 15. I now have to use MacOS at work. I miss Windows. It wasn't totally better, but I managed to overcome most Windows headaches with workarounds. I haven't found the alternatives yet to MacOS. From my perspective, both Windows and MacOS suck - but in different ways. I think the problem many Linux folks have with MacOS is that it is the "uncanny valley" of Linux. You get happy that you can use your usual UNIX flows, and then you find out that you can't. I really want a good tiling window manager. I have yet to find one on MacOS that has the features AwesomeWM have. It really sucks not being able to rebind keys to use Ctrl instead of Cmd in many apps. For basic tasks (opening/closing browser tabs), I have to use one set of keys in the daytime (at work), and another at night (at home). Why won't MacOS let me change them? | | |
| ▲ | morshu9001 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Most of the stuff isn't really personal preference, more like being temporarily used to a different way. Btw search "modifier keys" in Mac sysprefs if you want to rebind command to control. I'm also sick of using separate shortcuts at work, but the other way around, gonna rebind Ubuntu. | | |
| ▲ | Hard_Space 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I use Karabinier to remap keys. Mac OS makes you work hard to enable it the first time, though. |
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| ▲ | ecshafer 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I can give you a few examples: Packages are not done well compared to linux. Brew is a poor replacement. It feels like the terminal and everything involved is constantly out of date. The OS just has a lot of weird things, like the ribbon at the bottom taking up so much space. When I made is smaller and hidden except on mouse over it was incredibly rough. Window management is decades behind windows or linux. It doesn't like maximizing windows and doesn't make partitioning screen space easy. I had to download a third party app to make it better, which was still worse than windows even in windows 7, and miles worse than linux with i3. Mac has a lot of rough spots. I have two external monitors and occasionally after updates one monitor would be fuzzy or different resolutions, and it wouldn't go back until the next update. | |
| ▲ | 3form 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | There's something to it. On that note, is there any GUI tool that allows me to browse my zip archives without unpacking them, and is also free? | |
| ▲ | ep103 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | MacOs is extraordinarily opinionated about how everything should work and frequently attempt to predict your workflow. Linux/Windows (historically) were straightforawrd, each tool did exactly what it said it would do, and it was up to you to learn how to use the tools available. On linux/windows, if a button was "capture image", it would just capture the image on the screen. On a mac a "capture image" button could do anything from displaying the image on the screen, to saving it in a photos folder, to saving and syncing it to an iCloud account. Whatever the apple PM decided the most common use case was, and god help you if you want to do something different. If you've been in the mac ecosystem for a while, you've grown used to this and don't notice any longer. You may even occasionally express happiness when a function does something unexpected and helpful! If you're coming from anywhere else, its unbelievably painful. | | |
| ▲ | al_borland 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | I’d frame it slightly differently. With Linux/Windows you’re supplied with a toolbox and from that toolbox you’re expected to cobble together a workflow that works for you and maintain it. I spent a significant amount of time trying to learn Tasks inside of Outlook and come up with a system that would make it remotely useful. I failed repeatedly. They eventually bought Wunderlist and replaced it with that, which still has some rough edges (last I tried) due to the legacy Outlook Tasks integration. Apple, more often than not, is looking to identify a problem and give an opinionated solution on how to handle it. If you’re ok with their solution, great, problem solved. If you’re not, you end up either fighting with the Apple tools or finding a 3rd party toolbox style app that lets you cobble together a workflow. I found just going with the opinionated solution removes a lot of needless stress from my life. There are some places I do go 3rd party, but I reevaluate often to ask if I really need these things and if they’re worth the trouble. It ends up being a question of what my goals are with the computer. Am I looking to work on the operating system and apps to tune them to exactly what I want, or am I just looking for the system to fade into the background so I can do other things. When I was younger, I found tweaking and playing with everything to be a bit of a hobby. These days, I just want to do what I need to get done and move on with my life. |
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| ▲ | stackedinserter 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Not just this. I'm linux/macos user since early 2000's and still sometimes hate macos because they have very annoying bugs that are never fixed, and annoying corpo decisions. E.g. it keeps opening Music app whenever I connect bluetooth earbuds. I can't delete Music app, it just keeps popping up with imbecile message about "user is not logged in" or something. I run a script that monitors that Music.app is running and kills-9 it. Or blinking desktop background issue, that's been there for years, accumulated many support threads, and still not fixed. Random services like coreaudiod that suddenly start consuming 100% CPU for no apparent reason. Macbook throttling (thanks God, gone with M cpu's) I can keep going but my point is macos has legit problems that can't be simply shrugged off with "they just hold it the wrong way". Like any other mass product tbh, except rare ideal products like Factorio game or sqlite. | | |
| ▲ | al_borland 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I haven't had that Bluetooth issue (but I haven't tried connecting my non-airpods to my mac). Have you tried this? I saw it as a fix over on Reddit. Privacy & Security > Bluetooth > Click the + > Add Music from Applications > Toggle to disabled (This is insane to have to do, but better than running a script to monitor for it and kill it) |
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| ▲ | manuelmoreale 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > and mac os is absolutely awful. I have no idea how people use Mac. Not sure about other people, but in my case I spend 99% of the time using software made by 3rd parties so my exposure to the OS is very limited. Latest OS is making life miserable though, compared to all the previous releases. | |
| ▲ | AdamN 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Anything in particular? I get that it takes some tweaking but so does Linux. The biggest thing that you'll probably never get the way you want is window tiling - it's my personal bugaboo with MacOS. Maybe there's a way to get what I want ... | | |
| ▲ | AaronM 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | For me, the biggest pain point is the way it decides which window to bring to the front. If I minimize a window, and then click on the application in the bar, it won't show the window just minimized, instead it always seems to show the older window. Really annoying when using an app with many windows | | | |
| ▲ | lastdong 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | “I get that it takes some tweaking (MacOS)”
How times have changed, it used to be as intuitive as drinking water. | |
| ▲ | Carrok 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | There are an absolute ton of very capable tiling window managers for macOS, posted here frequently. From yabi to aerospace to fully programmable ones like hammerspoon. A quick search will turn up plenty more. I would be shocked if none of them meet your needs. | | |
| ▲ | morshu9001 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Shouldn't need to install third party stuff for such a basic feature. One more thing that will possibly break with updates or not play nice with something. |
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| ▲ | chezelenkoooo 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | There's a couple but nothing I've found at the level of i3 or whatever the hyprland equivalent is. | |
| ▲ | ecshafer 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Window wiling is a big one for me. I have tried the third party options, and nothing compares to i3. | |
| ▲ | ikidd 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Fucking Finder. What a colossal dumpster fire. It drags that entire OS down. | | |
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| ▲ | juuular 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Windows is such garbage, I can't understand how you think MacOS is worse lol. It's just Unix. Linux is definitely better than both though | | |
| ▲ | 3form 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | They didn't say they think macOS is worse, though. | |
| ▲ | ecshafer 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Windows is absolute garbage, I agree. But the application windows behave normally, maximize when I want them, will take half a screen, quarter screen, etc. with just a quick hotkey. Mac doesn't have that extremely basic functionality without a 3rd party extension, which is absurd. But I don't use windows other than if my work gives me one, I am purely linux otherwise. | | |
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| ▲ | reconnecting 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Man, we didn't have this all along. Six years ago everything was stable and solid, but Apple's board of directors seems to have decided that new Mac users can't handle a computer interface anymore and started merging it with mobile OS interfaces. And the result is absolutely terrible. | | |
| ▲ | steve1977 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | They also decided that they have to capture React devs and everything should use a declarative UI, which has brought us the wonderful new Systems Settings. |
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| ▲ | kaydub 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > I have no idea how people use mac. Meh, it has a terminal. Good enough for me. It's worth putting up with MacOS for the hardware. |
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| ▲ | stuartjohnson12 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It's only fair that Linux should pay 10% of the license fee for their software to Microsoft in exchange |
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| ▲ | geophile 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| For a long time, I had a MBP (this is in Intel days), with a Linux VM. It was like a reverse mullet, party in front (multimedia), work in back (dev). And then: - Butterfly keyboard
- Touchbar
- M-series CPUs, which, while technically awesome, did not allow for Linux VMs.
So I switched to System76/Linux (Pop OS) and that has been wonderful, not to mention, much cheaper. |
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| ▲ | reconnecting 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | - No esc | | |
| ▲ | bnchrch 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | See I'm a ends justify the means guy: The more people forced into the beautiful world of capslock is escape the better! | | |
| ▲ | reconnecting 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Your website has stained my screen. lol background-image: radial-gradient(circle at 12% 24%, var(--text-primary) 1.5px, transparent 1.5px), radial-gradient(circle at 73% 67%, var(--text-primary) 1px, transparent 1px), radial-gradient(circle at 41% 92%, var(--text-primary) 1.2px, transparent 1.2px), radial-gradient(circle at 89% 15%, var(--text-primary) 1px, transparent 1px); |
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| ▲ | zabzonk 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > Linux should consider paying Microsoft and Apple Who or what is the "Linux" entity in this context? |
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| ▲ | breezykoi 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Joking aside, I often hear people say "they should" when talking about GNU/Linux (for example: "they should just standardize on one audio stack"), as if there were a central authority making those decisions. What many don't realize is that with FOSS comes freedom of choice... and inevitably, an abundance of choice. That diversity isn't a flaw, it's a consequence of how the ecosystem works. | | |
| ▲ | morshu9001 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | There's free choice for those OSes to use different kernels, but they don't, they all use the same Linux (rather than say BSD). There's a lot of advantage in getting aligned on things, even though anyone can choose not to. | | |
| ▲ | breezykoi 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | It is true that Linux-based distributions have this thing in common: the Linux kernel. There have been some GNU/Hurd variants though... |
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| ▲ | morshu9001 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I guess Linus Torvalds and co? First they'd need to standardize a Linux desktop OS. | |
| ▲ | avaer 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Also who is paying "Linux" and for what? Maybe the answer ends up being Valve. | | |
| ▲ | breezykoi 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Well at least Microsoft is a platinum member of the Linux Foundation for many years... |
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| ▲ | rafaelmn 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| As much as I love the idea of moving to Linux - Mac hardware is like two years ahead of PC currently in pretty much any regard aside from gaming. I keep looking for an iteration where it makes sense to switch but currently the intel core 3 stuff is at best comparable to M5 base. Strix Halo is much more power hungry and also not that impressive other than having a bunch of cores. Nothing comes close to the pro/max chips in M4 series. And with RAM/storage pricing Apple upgrades are looking reasonably priced (TBD when M5 Pro devices launch). So I can either get a top tier tool when I upgrade this year or I can buy a subpar device, and the power management is going to likely be even worse on Linux. |
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| ▲ | barrkel 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I think this mostly only holds if you use local compute in a portable form factor. Most of my personal development these days is done on my home server - 9995wx, 768GB, rtx 6000 pro blackwell GPU in headless mode. My work development happens in a cloud workstation with 64 cores and 128GB of ram but builds are distributed and I can dial up the box size on demand for heavier development. I use laptops practically entirely as network client devices. Browser, terminal window, perhaps a VS Code based IDE with a remote connection to my code. Tailscale on my personal laptop to work anywhere. I'm not limited by local compute, my devices are lightweight, cheap(ish) and replaceable, not an investment. | | |
| ▲ | rafaelmn 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I'd like to use this kind of setup but unfortunately every time I try there's just soo many annoying edge cases that are wasting my time. Especially when I need to do FE/Mobile - but even BE has gotchas. I guess it depends on your environment - I'll try making this setup work sometimes in the next few months again. |
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| ▲ | miyuru 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | There is Asahi Linux project for Apple Silicon Macs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asahi_Linux | | | |
| ▲ | reconnecting 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | So whatever resources you have, Apple will use them mostly to render 3D glass effects. With Debian (Xfce), I can't speak for other desktop environments, you need roughly three times fewer resources to run the OS itself. | | |
| ▲ | deaux 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Or you just don't run Tahoe? | | |
| ▲ | reconnecting 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Actually, you don't have this choice anymore. Apple is disabling downgrading across all of iOS, and starting to do the same with MacOS. So you need to keep old hardware to run older MacOS versions, and it's only a matter of a few years before Tahoe is the latest OS you can run on your Mac. | | |
| ▲ | deaux 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Actually, you don't have this choice anymore. I must have taken some shrooms before I downgraded from Tahoe to Sequoia a few hours ago then. | | |
| ▲ | reconnecting 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Oh, I must be clear here: I'm not considering M1 Macs or later, since Apple closed the ecosystem with Apple Silicon. What you did is a downgrade in what's called the supported OS. However, if you decide to downgrade to Catalina on an M1 Mac, it's not possible — Big Sur is the earliest version that runs on Apple Silicon. Anyway, you cannot downgrade to a macOS version older than what your Mac originally came with. So if you buy a Mac now, Tahoe will be the minimum option. | |
| ▲ | stefanfisk 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Old Macs can certainly be downgraded. iOS doesn’t allow it though and they pulled the latest security update which fucking sucks. And if you buy a M5, Tahoe is the only OS that’s available. | | |
| ▲ | reconnecting 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I have nothing against old Macs and MacOS, but I certainly won't be buying anything since the Apple Silicon switch, because now only Apple controls which OS you can run. | |
| ▲ | deaux 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | >If you buy a machine that isn't even released yet Uhh, I guess. AFAIK iOS has been very locked down wrt rolling back upgrades since forever and isn't super relevant to this thread. Happy to be corrected. | | |
| ▲ | klausa 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | M5 MacBook Pros have been shipping for over three months now. The M5 Pro/Max variants aren't; but an M5 Mac is a thing you could have bought for a good while now. |
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| ▲ | jasoneckert 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| If Linux had a revenue stream and model, this would make sense. But the style of open-source is to make good software, and let others gravitate to you as a result. |
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| ▲ | kaydub 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| If there was an easy and supported way to put linux on a macbook I'd be back on linux but I can't give up the hardware. |
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| ▲ | jhickok 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| I am good laptop hardware away from making the move. |
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| ▲ | neop1x 24 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I can also recommend HP Zbook Ultra G1a. It's probably the closest thing to Macbooks at the moment. It has lower battery life and latest M chips are still faster but it's fast enough for me. The hardware is solid and sw support is great. | |
| ▲ | SomeHacker44 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | HP Zbook Ultra G1a, 128GB RAM. Add SSD to taste. HP supported (Canonical OEM) Ubuntu with KDE. Works great as a daily driver with a UGreen GAN charger. | |
| ▲ | 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | aljgz 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I'm on frame.work with AMD, 96GB RAM.
Using it with fedora+KDE
Absolutely love it | | |
| ▲ | jhickok 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Do they still use a paddle trackpad? Framework seems like its nearly perfect for me, even if I would miss Apple's displays on the MBP. | | |
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| ▲ | gregors 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | thinkpad |
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