| ▲ | cmiles8 6 hours ago |
| Sad to see this canceled and especially at the last minute. Since DEI imploded most companies won’t touch anything with a 100 ft pole that looks like it might go anywhere near that, and seems like that didn’t help on funding and sponsors. This always seemed like a good event and only ever heard positive things about it. The controversies and scandals surrounding DEI were not about this, and thus it would appear this may be collateral damage. |
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| ▲ | pseudosavant 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| For context, the first Grace Hopper Celebration was 1994, and had been held for the last 20 consecutive years. Long before DEI. But when the powers that be are intent to kill off "DEI", and their definition includes anything related to women, this is what happens. Too many business cowards don't want to have problems with their merger, acquisition, IPO, FCC license, etc for supporting celebrating a great American like this, just because she was a woman. |
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| ▲ | JuniperMesos 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | There was definitely gender-based affirmative action benefitting women in 1994 - the term DEI is newer than that (as far as I'm aware), but the concept is definitely not. According to the Wikipedia article on the event (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Hopper_Celebration_of_Wo...), "In 1994, Anita Borg and Telle Whitney founded the Grace Hopper Celebration of Women in Computing. With the initial idea of creating a conference by and for women computer scientists, Borg and Whitney met over dinner, with a blank sheet of paper, having no idea how to start a conference, and started to plan out their vision. The first Grace Hopper Celebration of Women in Computing was held in Washington, D.C., in June 1994, and brought together 500 technical women.". Having a specific conference for women in computing is definitely a DEI concern; from the very beginning, the entire point of having a formal celebration of Grace Hopper was to be a locus for this female-specific conference. Grace Hopper's importance to this conference is that she was a woman, not that she invented FLOW-MATIC. | | |
| ▲ | carefulfungi an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Grace Hopper graduated from Yale with a PhD in 1933. In 1952, Professor Bessie Lee Gambrill became the first woman at receive tenure at Yale. Many women mathematicians in computer science worked in the field because they were denied a university career path because of their gender. As an example of how late gender equality arrived, Olga Taussky-Todd (Caltech) held only a “research associate” title from 1957 until Caltech made her its first female full professor in 1971. https://mathematics.caltech.edu/about/prizes-awards/olga-tau... It is not wrong to celebrate a more enlightened world by highlighting its trailblazers and encouraging others to follow their footsteps in breaking barriers. | |
| ▲ | Geezus_42 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Why do you find it concerning that a conference would focus on women? | | |
| ▲ | datsci_est_2015 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I don’t think they were expressing concern, just the fact. I read it as a damning indictment against anti-“DEI” fanatics that they’re on the wrong side of history when they push the envelope too far in the direction of “merit-based hiring”, as if DEI was something relatively-recently concocted. Laughably, in the days before “DEI”, “merit-based hiring” usually equated to “good old boys club”. Based on the industries in which I’ve been involved, it’s still very much “good old boys club”, despite best efforts for DEI to try to make things more merit-based. | |
| ▲ | jjgreen 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Huh? Someone saying something is a DEI concern does not mean they find it concerning. | |
| ▲ | a-french-anon 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Because it undermines claims of equality? Make conferences for everyone, men and women. And actually, don't give gold stars to people just for being women (as in, would the same person as a man receive even half the attention), this is the worst way to belittle actual achievements coming from them. | | |
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| ▲ | smolder an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | "where is the conference celebrating white men?" -how you sound | | |
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| ▲ | peterfirefly 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Isn't the problem here the Anita Borg foundation and not Grace Hopper? | |
| ▲ | monideas an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Long before DEI. This is simply not accurate. It is profoundly inaccurate |
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| ▲ | sdcfgy 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| DEI didn’t implode. It stopped being a valuable marketing exercise for most companies as it wasn’t trending on social media any more. |
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| ▲ | rurjckci384 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It became a liability - corporates were legally threatened | | |
| ▲ | sdcfgy 14 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | This really didn't happen over here in Europe at all. That was mostly a US thing. Here it just faded out as it couldn't be leveraged. At our place, it did not influence hiring decisions other than having a formal DEI position in the org which was disposed of almost immediately when it was seen as a cost and not a benefit. | |
| ▲ | abcd_f 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Source for _legally_ ? | | |
| ▲ | hmry 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | (Legally as in, using the legal system) DOJ sued Deloitte over DEI programs, they ended up settling for $21.5 million:
https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/deloitte-pay-215-mi... Texas Attorney General declared DEI initiatives unconstitutional in a legal opinion:
https://www.gibsondunn.com/texas-attorney-general-declares-p... Several state Attorneys General sent legal threats to 20 major law firms over DEI:
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/republican-led-states-deman... Texas Attorney General warned major banks that DEI programs violate feduciary duty:
https://today.westlaw.com/Document/Ibce2fdc5dcec11efb708bbad... | | |
| ▲ | Amezarak 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | There's a big difference between suing people for prima facie illegal hiring practices and suing people for holding Grace Hopper celebrations. We probably shouldn't conflate them. Your links, as best as I can tell, are about the former sort of activity - hiring or paying people differently on the basis of protected characteristics. |
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| ▲ | philipallstar 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Don't know about corporates, but Harvard was sued[0] for DEI-esque discrimination. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Students_for_Fair_Admissions_v... | | |
| ▲ | peterfirefly 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Harvard lost due to obvious "anti" racist discrimination. It still seems to discriminate against whites and asians and in favour of blacks, but not as heavily as it used to. Edit: forgot to to write "and asians". | |
| ▲ | 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | ChocolateGod 38 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | There's a case going through the courts for Red Hat right now where they based managerial bonuses on how diverse their teams were, which reportedly led to them pushing out white males. Such should rightfully be illegal. | |
| ▲ | throw830373 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Every statement from company officials such as "we only employ women" or "toxic males", can be used as evidence at court. It is very difficult to prove bias from vague sanitized corporate language, direct "activist" statements make proving such bias very easy. For example recent lawsuit with IBM! | | |
| ▲ | bossyTeacher an hour ago | parent [-] | | > "we only employ women" But I highly doubt most companies were saying that or implying it. There's more to DEI than having minority quotas. Would DEI practices such as campaigns to encourage more men to go into nursing, midwifery or teaching be targeted too? | | |
| ▲ | ChocolateGod 36 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > such as campaigns to encourage more men to go into nursing, midwifery or teaching be targeted too? These aren't illegal and have never been the problem. Discriminational hiring practices and quotas are, unfortunately DEI activists decided to do these. |
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| ▲ | 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | lynx97 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | While cynical, there is a lot of truth to your statement. I wish the activist type would realize that they are actually being used, but it appears there isn't much chance they will ever listen to the old dogs in this game. | | |
| ▲ | sdcfgy 15 minutes ago | parent [-] | | That is exactly it. A good perspective: the activists were being used. |
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| ▲ | pluc an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Most US companies. The rest of the world happily doesn't care - and increasingly doesn't do so solely to avoid looking like United Statesmen. |
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| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > seems like that didn’t help on funding and sponsors Do we know any sponsors who pulled out? Even if that was the case, pulling the plug like this at t minus two weeks speaks to problems internally. |
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| ▲ | cmiles8 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | From what was reported there was a broad reduction of interest from sponsors. Speculation, but the late cancellation very much sounds like there was an effort to find a main sponsor to make up the gap but no corporate was willing to step up and just be the primary sponsor to fund what was needed. Corporate lawyers now broadly advise their companies against putting any money towards demographic-specific initiatives due to the risks of being sued for discrimination. Buying a booth at an event would probably be seen as fine but I can only imagine pitches to be a title sponsor were met with “don’t touch this” advice from corporate lawyers. | | |
| ▲ | throw830373 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Post is very clear there is also less interest from individuals to participate. Tech jobs are going through implosion now (for several reasons), and working in tech is not so attractive anymore. > Unlike past events, this year, both individual registrations | | |
| ▲ | Geezus_42 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Mainly because the people in power believe they'll be able to replace us all any day now. |
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| ▲ | tgsovlerkhgsel 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | usernomdeguerre 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | >It's a shame that events like this are affected, but I can't help but be glad that this ended... I suppose you'll leave it up to the reader to determine what it's been replaced with instead. Things like this perhaps? https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/white-house-says-us-amb... | | |
| ▲ | Semiapies 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Or just canceling scientific research because keywords like "diversity" showed up in the abstract. |
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| ▲ | mkesper 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | As a matter of fact non-white, non-male individuals are disadvantaged in many societies. The consequences of improving the equality of opportunities may sometimes feel like disadvantage to groups that received preferential treatment before. The goal needs to be a levelled playing field for everyone, not denying inequality and punishing those who point out and strive to improve those social injustices. | | |
| ▲ | account42 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Collective punishment or priviledges baced on race or sex is ... racism/sexism, pure and simple. If you want to help disadvantaged people then help those who are disadvantaged. But that's harder and generally requires you to actually show that they are disadvantaged rather than making racist/sexist claims. | | |
| ▲ | Geezus_42 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Or just help everyone and not worry about means testing. It won't be hard to spot the ones taking more than their fair share. |
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| ▲ | lynx97 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Real equality isn't obtainable. What we are doing currently is just moving things around. The classic case of the vocal minority being louder then another minority. This isn't creating honest fairness, it just highlights certain groups to the detriment of others. Since LGBTQ has become louder, disabled people are being more forgotten again. Accessibility is HARD, so, just cater to LGBTQ and your corporate conscience is magically cleared up. Activists HATE this insight, since they are also blind to the needs of even smaller groups. I know what I am talking about, I am disabled, and I am watching the "landscape" since 35 years. If your knee jerk reaction is to downvote this, I am not surprised, because, you know, that just underlines my point. | | |
| ▲ | Geezus_42 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | It's almost like capitalism is inherently unequal. | | |
| ▲ | lynx97 an hour ago | parent [-] | | Is a bit like with democracy. Its the best system we have... Everything we, as humans, do, will eventually be unfair, because, frankly, humans are just not fair. Sure, a select few have high goals, and might even DTRT... But thats always just a small group. The rest of us will try to take advantage of others, some coniscously, some unconsciously. Humankind will only be fair once it has ended. |
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| ▲ | georgemcbay 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | "When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression". This sort of talk will get you downvoted here on HN by the "oppressed". But as a white male, I agree with you. DEI "imploded" not because it was unfair, but because a bunch of mediocre baby back bitches can't reckon with the fact that they have always benefited from a ton of privilege. | | |
| ▲ | InsideOutSanta 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | This is just my subjective experience, but the only people I've ever seen complain about "DEI" in real life were the most incompetent men I've ever met. These people were clearly aware, on some level, that "DEI" is a threat to them specifically. | | |
| ▲ | theodric 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | We had a physical laborer position in the datacenter (lift and shift) get "flagged for diversity (female)" and sit open and unfilled for a year because we were unable to recruit a woman. THIS is the kind of thing that causes problems: some HR analyst pulled the datacenter team stats, saw there were no women working in the grunt team, and decided to try and change that by force. We had LOTS of women in the datacenter group, majority in analysts and coordination, pretty balanced overall, but just none in the grunts. No thoughts were given to why women didn't and likely wouldn't apply for that role. By god, I tried. The few I got to interview noped out once the job responsibilities were made clear. We eventually closed the position unfilled as part of a scaledown/budget giveback. I'm sure an argument could be made about how the org should seek equity by restructuring the way the team works to eliminate the need for physical strength and replace it with machines, allowing any operative to do the job, but those arguments never seem to come with a budget attached to buy lifts or powered carts to allow us to change the way things have been done in the computing center for 50+ years. Talk is cheap, companies are cheaper. Furthermore, overcoming societal norms such that a woman would choose to apply for that role over a less physically taxing, traditionally male-coded one is likely to be more difficult even than finding budget for machines. | | |
| ▲ | Geezus_42 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | That's just your company's HR being morons. Or more likely, they were doing their best to make sure the position didn't get filled because that would cost money. | | |
| ▲ | theodric a minute ago | parent [-] | | My point was that HR "just being morons" adds fuel to the fire for people pushing anti-diversity narratives. It feels stupid, because it is stupid. It came from a good place (stop shutting women out of jobs) and devolved into the typical corporate "GMD says we have to increase diversity by 10% this year" metric-chasing bureaucratic crapola. It's not even the only similar instance in my career, but I won't be doxxing myself further. |
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| ▲ | zombocomvibes 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Just at the administration and say with a straight face that it's meritocracy in action. Hah. | |
| ▲ | oddIdentities 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] |
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| ▲ | account42 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | DEI imploded because it's racist and sexist and always was. | | |
| ▲ | Geezus_42 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Tell me how Hegseth and Patel are remotely qualified for their positions. |
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| ▲ | lynx97 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Your post would be way less hilarious if you refrained from using words like "bitches" in a post arguing for DEI! Derogatory sexist terms don't really help your cuase. | |
| ▲ | actionfromafar 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Clearly a Fox host is the best military super genius. |
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| ▲ | kelnos 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The federal government has cancelled funding for a ton of genuinely useful scientific research because "o noes not the DEI monster". (Not to mention just putting the word "diversity" in your proposal has been grounds for rejection, even if it you're talking about, say "wifi antenna diversity".) But sure, I'm glad now you can say whatever you want in your code comments. Seems like a good trade. /s | | |
| ▲ | account42 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Overcorrection is only a natural reaction to a previously even larger push in the other direction. The correction was sorely needed and wel'll just have to live with a little bit of collateral damage until things normalize. | | |
| ▲ | Geezus_42 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | That is idiotic and stems from the false notion that there is some natural equilibrium that will occur. |
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| ▲ | netsharc 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Profiles of corporate courage... To Godwin it (with his assumed blessing (1)), I guess this is how BMW, Hugo Boss, Allianz, etc, ended up being involved in the Holocaust. (1) https://www.alternet.org/godwins-law-trump-hitler/ | | |
| ▲ | philipallstar 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Reducing funding for something sometimes harmful, which then correspondingly means the funding is not passed on to others, is not the Holocaust. The utter degrading of the meanings of powerful words might get us there, though. | | |
| ▲ | dofm 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Reducing funding for something sometimes harmful, which then correspondingly means the funding is not passed on to others, is not the Holocaust. This is a rather boring straw man characterisation of the claim you are replying to. Don’t do this. | | |
| ▲ | philipallstar 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | It might be a good idea to mention what the straw man is, rather than just throw the phrase and see if it sticks. |
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| ▲ | itake 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | yeah, feels like they were hoping something would come through until it didn't |
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| ▲ | oddIdentities 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > This always seemed like a good event and only ever heard positive things about it. Shocking. |
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| ▲ | foldr 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| >The controversies and scandals surrounding DEI were not about this Oh but they were about this. This is the common trend of people thinking that "the good ones" are implicitly exempted from their general and sweeping attacks on $THING. C.f. the hardline anti-immigration voter who thinks that the guy who mows their lawn obviously won't be included in the crackdowns. If you attack the whole concept of DEI (as many did – not necessarily you), then you are in fact attacking events celebrating the achievements of women in fields where they're poorly represented. |
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| ▲ | oddIdentities an hour ago | parent [-] | | >C.f. the hardline anti-immigration voter who thinks that the guy who mows their lawn obviously won't be included in the crackdowns. huh, that's pretty bizarre, at least here in Australia (where in recent years immigration has exploded to 2x ~ 3x that of the USA), all the anti-immigration voters are sincerely hoping the guy who mows their lawn grew up across town where his wife's sister now lives. the crackdowns are for the economic migrants just taking a lifestyle arbitrage ultimately, immigration into large developed nations is an act of altruism, which, like most things in life, cannot scale indefinitely (much to the chagrin of business owners, women, arts students, etc.) - which is not nice, but is true. |
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| ▲ | fnord77 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This had nothing to do with DEI. It has everything to do with something we're not allowed to criticize. |
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| ▲ | yawpitch 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| DEI didn’t implode; it’s not an implosion when it’s shot at from the outside by malicious actors intent on destroying something they don’t understand and can only kneejerk react to out of unreasoning fear. This isn’t collateral, this was the plan, the planners were just too stupid to see the natural consequences of their plan. See also the price of diesel. |
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| ▲ | philipallstar 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | It was definitely and constantly imploding. It was just kept alive by a giant amount of taxpayer and corporate money. | | |
| ▲ | tempfile 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | What does this even mean? Every initiative is kept alive by money. It was very clearly attacked by the Trump administration, and once they started attacking, DEI initiatives stopped. Why else do you think the "implosions", apparently happening all the time, were finally too much to sustain around 2025? | | |
| ▲ | pohl 30 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | The same administration who, just yesterday hired a new press secretary who was very obviously not hired for qualifications but instead for being a blonde. | |
| ▲ | ChocolateGod 34 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Why else do you think the "implosions" Namely by going too far and breaking the law by becoming discriminatory? So now companies are not going to touch DEI. DEI killed DEI, not Trump. | | |
| ▲ | tempfile 3 minutes ago | parent [-] | | When did DEI go too far, and why? I am not aware of any anti-DEI position that thinks it was ever an acceptable practice. It has been resisted since the 80s. |
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| ▲ | tastyface 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| DEI did not implode; it was heavily and viciously assaulted. |
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| ▲ | cmiles8 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The implication here that the DEI movement had done nothing wrong is rather naive… it wasn’t all bad, but there was a lot of bad things happening to answer for. | | |
| ▲ | Geezus_42 an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | I didn't see anyone but you suggest that. | |
| ▲ | tempfile 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Doesn't seem like that's implied at all. There is no implication about whether it is good or bad actually, but if the fact it was attacked is a bad thing, the only inference is that on balance it did more harm than good. | |
| ▲ | deadbunny 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Could you elaborate on some of these "bad things"? | | |
| ▲ | cmiles8 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Many DEI programs were highly discriminatory if not outright racist towards certain minorities that were seen as less worthy. Asians and Jewish individuals were often heavily discriminated against via DEI initiatives. The list goes on. These programs were, in theory, well intentioned but to suggest they did nothing wrong is simply factually incorrect. | | |
| ▲ | krapp an hour ago | parent [-] | | The true motivations of the anti-DEI movement were obvious when they attacked DEI as a concept rather than just the corruption they claimed existed within the system, and proceeded to do things like blame plane crashes on the hiring of black pilots. There were already laws on the books against hiring discrimination. Maybe a few naive people in the movement had good intentions but they were clearly dupes for what was at its core a right-wing white supremacist and incel ideology. And the proof is in the pudding. Has the anti-DEI movment (and current administration) created a truly fair and equitable society that focuses on merit in the absence of gender and race? No. It has created a society in which the contributions of anyone other than white men are systemically attacked, torn down and even erased from the public record. | | |
| ▲ | randallsquared 22 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > they attacked DEI as a concept rather than just the corruption they claimed existed People who crusade against DEI generally think that the concept is corruption, rather than being an unrelated side matter. > There were already laws on the books against hiring discrimination. Those are exactly the laws being used to attack DEI practices, though they were by consensus not previously wielded against clear violations that were intended virtuously. |
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| ▲ | samlinnfer 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Racism |
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| ▲ | tossandthrow 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | You could also say that DEI is easier to defend when human work was more valuable and capital was cheaper. | | |
| ▲ | vkou 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | You could say that it was easier to practice before the executive (that routinely hires the dumbest troglodytes - whose only qualification is loyalty to the fuhrer - into positions of power) started a witchhunt against anyone practicing it. Since the only god our corporatations worship goes by power and money, they all started tripping over themselves to kiss the ring. | | |
| ▲ | tossandthrow 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I should be the last one to defend the existing system. But IMHO DEI answers the wrong question. Worthwhile lives does not come from equal access to the hamster wheel. I am much more pro UBI structures og negative taxation - which are inherently difficult to make descriminatory as there is no personal judgement of the people to receive it. | |
| ▲ | JuniperMesos 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | You probably don't actually want corporations that do intrinsically care about being able to violate federal civil rights and anti-discrimination law, and are willing to lose money and give up influence in order to keep doing so. |
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| ▲ | account42 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | As should all things evil be. |
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