They could fix the camera bump and improve the battery life, just by making the phone thicker.

With the introduction of the iPhone Air, it would have been a great opportunity to do this on the normal model.

Those who care about phone thickness could buy the Air, and the rest of us could have our large battery flat phones.

Note that hidden front cameras have been available for a while - for example, the Samsung Z Fold 3 (2021). There are some engineering tradeoffs involved with light transmission and image quality that maybe Apple doesn't find favorable.

Interestingly Chinese manufacturers seem to be the main adopters of this tech. For example, the article below has Samsung, Xiaomi, ZTE, Oppo, Vivo (actually, this may just be due to there being many more large Chinese phone manufacturers in general.) https://www.smartprix.com/bytes/under-display-camera-phones/

At some point you run into physics limitations with the camera though. Cameras are a weird bit of tech. In almost all other areas of tech, as we get more advanced, things get smaller - the opposite is true of camera sensors, they get better the larger they are. More light, less noise, better/more pleasing bokeh, etc. Same is true for lenses as well, and as the sensors get bigger, the lenses also must get bigger.

I love the idea behind the pro phone and going all out on cameras, but practically I want the air more. I wish it had an ultrawide, but it is what it is - I have and frequently carry around an actual camera with me most places I go where I'd want to take photos.

We had flush cameras the last time in the iPhone SE 2016. That camera was good enough for my modest needs. It's just that Apple has a different opinion.

> novel approach to camera optics that can completely flatten them into the phone - front camera hidden behind the screen removing the island or inset - dramatically better battery tech density leading to like week long usage

The thing you are looking for is meta lenses, not the company. They could cover the entire back-face of the phone and provide some pretty incredible capabilities. We are not there yet, but I'd expect to see them in the next 20 years.

While we're at it, here's my smartphone wishlist:

- Novel radios that enable true Starlink connection in your pocket for gigabit internet globally

- multi-spectrum imaging for spectroscopy and FLIR-like cameras to get temperature info in images

- Light field camera system for true 3D imaging and synthetic refocusing

- Air quality sensor that can also act as breath analyzer

Also, expand existing capabilities for NFC/RFID/Sub-Ghz/Infrared and add new. I want to use my phone to control my TV, door, office badge, etc.

Took the plunge from an SE 2020 to a 16, and it is noticeable how it is hard to hold in one hand. I could see a world were a foldable iphone would mean a narrower device.

I am thinking of trying one of the vertically folding phones with a keyboard case. It reminds me of a BlackBerry. The keyboard means the small square outer screen is a lot more usable by itself.

same.

I'd go back to feature phones if not for BankID and the NFC payment thing.

My phone has replaced my wallet, except I have to keep it charged and it's bulkier.. maybe I just go back to a wallet.

iPhones have had iMessage over satellite since I think the 15? I've used it when camping. It's pretty neat!

Features I want: ask siri for the things I look up and it works. "When did the baby fall asleep" instead of opening Nanit. "How many more intervals in this workout" instead of opening TrainerRoad. "What is my next meeting" instead of opening Outlook. This was the promise of the new Siri and it just has yet to really come true.

What needs to be better about screens outdoor? iPhones have had nicely readable screens in bright sunlight for a long time now, including compatibility with sunglasses. Though it would be nice to see this in all other phones too.

Other than that I agree. Especially camera bumps are annoying to me, I would prefer a phone thick enough to make the bump disappear, that would then automatically solve the battery life issue as well.

> Batteries that charge fast. Batteries that can support 2-3 days of use. Lighter batteries.

Battery chemistry isn't there yet. Frankly, we are lucky enough phones don't set themselves ablaze every day - it only takes minuscule errors and you get a Galaxy Note.

> Thinner camera.

Hard to beat physics and if you ask me, "AI" slop is already being overused on cameras to hide the fact that good picture quality requires sensor area and distance for the optics.

> Satellite connectivity.

We're already beginning to see that with Starlink LTE.

3d UIs don't work, every attempt has failed to reach mass adoption

IR keyboards lack haptic feedback

Aside from enhancedprivacy, a desire to drain your battery, a lack of recurring revenue for local phone LLMs, and functioning when network is inaccessible, what would a local LLM do that a network-enabled feature couldn't?

first two features are gimmicks

I don't have the impression people care about the weight of phones. Premium phones have metal and glass cases, and in the non-premium market the thing that matters is price.

What matters to me is how comfortable it is to hold and use with one hand. Large and thin phones tend to be bad in that aspect.

Why not put the loop on the case?

For me, i use a case because the damn phones are slippery as hell.

How often do you drop your phone on the ground? For me it’s probably once a week.

I'm the same way but that makes the bulge even more annoying. They're designing it to put a case on it.

The thickness should be from the front to the back of the camera lens, not to the thinnest point they can find.

The case is part of the utilitarianism. I need to attach my phone to a bike mount. I use a Peak Design case that has a locking attachment point in the centre to securely fasten the phone onto the handlebars.

I would gladly ditch the case if Apple had a strong mounting system integrated into the phone (MagSafe has nowhere near the resistance to shear forces sufficient to hold a phone over bumps on a bike.)

I suppose I am looking for the phone equivalent of a camera thumbscrew mount. If Apple iterated on MagSafe to include an actual mechanical fixture as part of the attachment, I would buy that phone right away so I can avoid using these crappy pieces of rubber/plastic that degrade so much more quickly in appearance than the phone frame rails.

Same, I get random “raw dogging it” comments from strangers much more often than I drop my phone even since having kids. Ironically via raw dogging it.

Same. Cases are like putting shoes on a dog. You can do that, but it looks dumb and the dog will probably be fine without them.

I bought a new pixel, bought a case that had slow shipping. Only a week, what could go wrong? I dropped it flat on the screen on a tile floor.

Cases are dirt cheap, if you're paying over $30 for one you're probably overpaying. The expected value of a screen repair, not only the cost but your time makes it a no-brainer.

I think you might be an outlier. My own anecdote is that literally everyone I know who doesn't use a case (albeit a small number of people) has cracked their phone at some point while I've known them.

Same here, ditched cases a few years ago and never been happier. It’s a tool, not an heirloom.

I think a lot of people just drop stuff more than you do.

Same, and I've never had to replace a phone or screen once... I wouldn't need two hands to count the number of times I've even had a scare.

People need to get a grip. ;)

Because if the case gets damaged you can easily replace it.

People would still put a case on a bulky phone to protect resale or trade in value.

A super thin phone doesn't require a super bulky case, it requires just as much case as a person would normally use, resulting in a smaller overall profile.

I'd probably still go pro because I care more about the camera than the size.

They're sort of doing that with Ceramic Shield, and the new bumper case for the Air.

I think the reality is that your phone will always encounter something that can damage it (unless it's made out of diamond), and a case lets you easily replace the damaged part.

Just subjectively, I remember having a super scratched iPod and it just felt kind of ratty every time you looked at it. Meanwhile, a phone in a leather case gets kind of a patina that improves with age. It is kind of sad though, I got a really pretty blue iPhone and you wouldn't even know it because it's completely covered by a case.

Honestly, it sounds really compelling to me. I do a lot of stuff outside - search and rescue, climbing, etc, and I need a rugged case for that, but having a thin, light phone when I'm at home or doing something with less chance to damage the phone is pretty nice, so thin phone + case is the best of both worlds.

You escaped the infinite IKEA?

There was never a "Pro" version of it. I have the Mini (13). I plan to ride it into the sunset.

I'm going with the iPhone 5.

But apparently they don't engineer for smaller hands, one hand usage or fits comfortably in a pocket when you're running

It also hurts when I drop the iPad mini on my face. In fact, I was considering getting a Pro Max to replace both a iPhone Pro and iPad mini combo but figured it might too big of a compromise.

I wonder if anyone has successfully gone down this path.

Maybe it's just me but I do semi-regularly have my phone slip out of my hand and hit me in the face while in bed, haha.

Laying in bed/couch with the phone over your face and arms outstretched. Eventually your arms get tired or a muscle twitches and you drop the phone on your face.

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/text-in-bed-drop-phone-on-fac...

I read or do a crossword in bed as part of my go to sleep ritual. Sometimes it slips out my hand though usually it just hits my chin or chest. I can easily see how it falls on someone's face though.

You can submerge recent iPhones completely in water for few years now. Every year I make some quite fun and surprisingly looking underwater pictures with mine, that's just fine afterwards given I'm still able to write this comment on it.

Reminds me of the fun times of dropping the phone and having the phone go to one side, battery to the other and back cover to a third place.

Exactly in the same boat.

Apple offering is underwhelming to say the least and way too expensive for my use case.

I want to go Android anyway, I'm too disillusioned with Apple currently, I'm tired of dealing with their predatory behavior. But there aren't a lot of decent options there as well but at least you can get it much cheaper, so that's something, I guess.

Previously Apple was the provider of hardware which made the right compromise to allow specific/focused use case, they called it "taste" in a sea of nonsense with bullshit "features". But now it feels like Apple has joined in on the nonsense and is actually leading the pack; which is why the price feels bad. If you are going to make the same crap as everyone else with the same set of bad compromises, I'm not going to overpay for it.

I think this is why Apple "AI" got so much backlash. If they didn't make it or at least market it as heavily as they, did it would have been fine, but it was just the same crap as everyone else, just worse and more expensive. They could have released the exact same phone, just shaving a 100 dollar and have been acclaimed and made more money that way I believe.

Me too, will probably keep the 13 mini for like a decade

But lighter than any iPhone since except maybe an SE.

With a much bigger screen and better battery life.

Of course, the iPhone 5 weighed significantly less than either of those! The iPhone Air has a larger screen than all three of those. I don't see what your comparison has to do with anything. The Air is a light phone relative to its screen size. It is also an incredibly thin phone.

I'm probably not getting one, but I don't see the point of comparing it to physically smaller phones.

At least for me something so thin feels better with a bit of heft. And if you read the article the idea was to use any space saved for the battery. Seems pretty slick

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The Air and 17 Pro have symmetrical bumps.

Sadly the 17 pro is the same exact weight as the 14 pro.

“Sixty-three percent of adults said they would cover a hypothetical $400 emergency expense exclusively using cash or its equivalent, unchanged from 2022 and 2023 but down from a high of 68 percent in 2021.”

https://www.federalreserve.gov/publications/2025-economic-we...

$999 is a lot of money.

> They are so commonplace and also not really that expensive where it is a financial flex like some watch that cost 10k+ or something.

I definitely agree about them being just about the most banal stupid toy you could spend the money on, but it's still a lot of money to a lot of people despite the cost of basic necessities making it not the huge amount that it used to be. I cringe at paying over $450, considering that every new model of phone since like 2015 hasn't really done anything worth significantly more money.

It's just a proxy for people to complain about the price. People will complain about a few hundred dollars in a phone price differences, even though it will be the one product they use more than anything else they own. And then not blink spending a couple extra grand on some car features/performance they use rarely or spend a thousand dollars a year on lattes.

I think it's -mostly- an age thing, and you simply matured out of it. For the most part.

I say that because I feel similarly, but my out of college coworkers rib me for not having an iPhone. One even commented he'd probably never text me in real life, to which I of course replied that I'd never want him to text me in real life.

Further, in the US, non-iPhone have terrible resale value, so the monthly cost of iPhone can be cheaper

They are between 1000 to 1500 USD over here in EU. Pretty much only very well off people are buying current gen iPhones. Many people have older models. We also don't have any Apple lock-in culture, so there is much less incentive to go out of your way to get iPhone specifically.

You're in the US.

> maybe I'm too in my own bubble

Is it a green bubble or a blue bubble? :)

The Pro is still seen by some as a "flex" by some, visibly having all three lenses. The Air is likely just a more visible flex, thus it will probably sell well.

I'm an Australian in my 40's almost everyone in my immediate circle (family, friends, work-peers) has an Android, at least in my world iPhone is a minority.

I grew up with Nokia phones all I want out of my phone is something cheap and rugged with a decent battery life.

You are in a bubble: the anglosphere. In most of the world, the iPhone does not dominate the market.

That's precisely why people need a phone focused on design and engineering to stand out.

> Is iPhone still viewed as a status symbol?

In wealthy circles, no. Anywhere else, yes, it’s a thousand-dollar device.

There’s status in not being one of the android paupers.

Yes, only by people who own an iPhone. It's a special kind of bubble.

I have my iPhone 13 Pro Max for 4 years now and the only problem I really have is storage and the battery.

I'm debating if I just replace the battery and let this run another year... since the iPhone X I haven't seen any major upgrades still that feel like they'll matter in my day-to-day life.

A flip would be different...

where from ?

So I don't get this. Yes, my N=1 experience, but: I don't put my phone in a case, and only use a screen protector. I have a Pixel 8 (arguably one of the more notoriously ridiculous camera bumps), but have of course had other phones with camera bumps before this. I am generally careful with my phone, but of course I've dropped it, knocked it off a table onto the floor, etc. But I've never ever scratched the camera. Have I just been lucky, or are they harder to scratch than one would expect?

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If you just want a camera get a mirrorless. They're smaller than DSLRs and easier to adapt lenses to. If you don't care about lenses Fujifilm cameras are probably the most fun to use.

(But if you use it rarely it's better to just rent one, and then you can get a really nice one.)

Glad to hear the research has caught up with this... checks notes... nearly 20-year-old paper from MIT: https://dl.acm.org/doi/abs/10.1145/1457515.1409087

I tried iphone 16 pro max and cameras are just amazing.

Didn't Apple cancel its smaller phones because of lack of sales?

They changed the camera alignment purportedly so it would be at a distance to take better video for the Vision Pro.

But how is it a status symbol in the US is $25 a month between the SE and the iPhone 17 Pro Max?

Apple basically forced US carriers to get their act together when they shipped the iPhone 14 series as eSIM-only domestically. Sounds like the rest of the world is about to get kicked into gear.

China Unicom was also the launch carrier for iPhone when it came out in 2007-8. It was the only carrier to support GMS channels similar to the ones in the west (China Mobile didn't, these days Apple supports chinese cell phone channels on both carriers with the same chip).

There’s no rational answer to this.

They want thin phones for the same reason they like fast cars. The same reason that ice cream tastes good.

Why do (some) people like jazz music?

The Osborne 1 weighed ~25 pounds. I'm glad computer makers have put in the work to make computers faster and lighter over time.

Easier to drop in the toilet?

That may be the impact for some people, but for others, who can now get another metacarpal around to the other side of the phone, it will be easier.

I do hope that the metal they are using is on the grippier side (like the black 16 Pros, as opposed to the 16s)

A wedge is such a natural solution. It tilts the screen forward slightly when it's flat, it could have sexy curved edges like the very first iPhone, it would match the aesthetics of the Air, and it would stand out compared to Android phones.

The main issue is weight distribution, although current designs are slightly top heavy anyway.

A less obvious issue is that people would tend to hold the screen vertically while taking photos, which would distort the visual plane of the lenses at the back.

I'm sure both of those could be solved, and a wedge would create something original, instead of the nth iteration of the same ugly wart aesthetic.

Give me an iphone with a nice camera and a flat back, fill the extra space with battery, and it probably becomes a day 1 purchase for me.

>I’d rather have the world with nice cameras on my phone than the one where the back is flat for aesthetic design reasons.

The argument is that you shouldn't need to pick one or the other. They got us used to the bump because it is cheaper and simpler for them to build. The same with literally everything now. No more striving for excellence, it's just "what can we normalize and force people to put up with so we don't have to fix the problem".

Yep. The cameras keep me upgrading every other year, otherwise I'd probably wait 3-4 years at least.

Just take the existing phone and fill in the space. Voila, same camera quality, no bump.

Presumably the firing would be due to clear lack of judgement.

Yes, I meant that upcoming change. I suppose I could’ve said “now that the decision has been made to…”, as if that’s somehow better.

True, a quarter inch longer and eighth inch wider. Smaller both ways than the Max, at least.

https://techcrunch.com/2025/09/09/all-of-the-iphone-17-model...

It should be a trend. I've been wearing a crossbody small bag (I guess you could call it a fanny pack, technically) for a long time now and ever since I've gotten a smartwatch I rarely need to take my phone out, so it lives in the bag instead of a bulge in my pants pocket. I wear the bag in the front so when I do need my phone it's just as quick to pull out of the bag as my pants pocket.

Unironically there are bags that I used to associate with drug dealers that are becoming common: https://www.jdsports.co.uk/men/mens-accessories/bags-and-gym...

I wouldn't be surprised if discomfort from having a bulky phone in your pocket drives this.

I am also guilty of buying a bag (not this kind) for my phone because it's so much more comfortable (and makes my trousers last longer) to not have my phone in my pocket.

you jest but…you may be under a rock. :)

https://www.gq.com/story/best-fanny-packs

https://datebook.sfchronicle.com/entertainment/covid-times-h...

https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-gear/run/fanny-packs-s...

Isn't it the hinge, the folding oled screen and general durability of moving parts that are the hard parts of a foldable? This has none of those.

I hope you're right, but this likely means having to wait another generation to see a folding iphone

> Very few people want that

Do you have any evidence behind it? I personally would love it, price is the biggest blocker tbh.

Holy shit you weren't kidding: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...