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▲ nkrisc an hour ago

The opening premise baffles me. What kind of illusion must one be under to believe that employers would ever pay you the same amount of money to do less work?

Realistically there were only ever two possible outcomes: you do more work for the same amount of money, or you’re one of the ones who were laid off and your work was transferred to the former.

The only way it will result in less work and the same or better quality of life is if you’re self-employed or are employed by a compassionate human. Sadly that does not apply to the majority of people.

▲10111001 44 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> The opening premise baffles me. What kind of illusion must one be under to believe that employers would ever pay you the same amount of money to do less work?

It seems like a pretty common misunderstanding in rank-and-file AI-boosterism. I'm guessing that reflects their initial experience, before their employer adjusts their expectations, extrapolated out to infinity. Your correct understanding makes AI sound like a bad deal for workers (and it is), so my theory AI-enthusiastic boosters have to engage in a degree of reality distortion to keep up their enthusiasm.

▲jerf 30 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

On the plus side for us worker bees, this is why I never really bought in to the narrative that our jobs were inevitably doomed. A question I've posed a few times: Consider two reasonably similar competitors with 100 engineers two years ago. Suppose AI really does accelerate development 10x times. It doesn't (at least not yet) but the larger number helps bring the question into focus. One company fires 90 engineers and does the same work with the remaining 10. The other company keeps all its engineers and does 10 times the work.

Who wins in the market?

It's not a uniform answer. There are times and places where the first one wins, as well as a mixed strategy. But I think broadly speaking the majority answer is the second.

▲coldtea 21 minutes ago | parent [-]

>On the plus side for us worker bees, this is why I never really bought in to the narrative that our jobs were inevitably doomed. A question I've posed a few times: Consider two reasonably similar competitors with 100 engineers two years ago. Suppose AI really does accelerate development 10x times. It doesn't (at least not yet) but the larger number helps bring the question into focus. One company fires 90 engineers and does the same work with the remaining 10. The other company keeps all its engineers and does 10 times the work. Who wins in the market?

The one who understands that "10 times the work" is not necessarily absorbable by the market, and adjust to whatever lesser value still works, and still fires a lot of the 100.

▲Buttons840 17 minutes ago | parent [-]

A lot of the fired then make a Discord and casually replicate the company's product.

That's how it will eventually pan out, but I guess the company gets a bag before the collapse.

▲Grombobulous a few seconds ago | parent | next [-]

This is why recessions often lead to a burst in new companies being founded.

One of the experiences that stuck with my in my early career was when my coworkers heard talk of layoffs at their startup that was acquired by bigcorp, one of the first reactions was “maybe we should just do another startup.”

I was taken aback at how casually that idea was thrown around. They didn’t even have a specific idea, just the casual thought that they could just start another company.

▲10111001 8 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

> A lot of the fired then make a Discord and casually replicate the company's product.

And what's going to be the result of that? Can the market really support that many competitors comfortably, and/or are you setting yourself up for business failure or Chinese-style involution and 996?

See, I want a comfortable happy life, not a stress-filled one of maximum market efficiency. AI + capitalism doesn't look like it's going to provide the former.

▲Buttons840 2 minutes ago | parent [-]

The market can't support it. The value of software will trend towards zero.

The less society spends on developers, the less valuable software is. If the day comes that we employ zero developers, then software will be worth zero dollars.

And yet, software will still be fulfilling an essential part of society, it just wont be a thing people are willing to pay for. So AI will still be around, and will still be essential (because somehow we have to maintain all this software), and AI will get better and better.

Eventually any knowledge work will be worth zero. Including the C-suite--especially the c-suite!

▲paimapi 29 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Right. People don't understand the difference between labor and value. The job of a corporation is to extract as much surplus value from its workers as possible while making it as opaque as possible to individual workers the actual revenue they bring in.

It's very normal to think that the extra revenue growth you bring in should mean you have either 1) a larger share of the pie for every efficiency increase that grows revenue or 2) less expectation from you, as a worker, to labor as intensively since you are continuing to bring in surplus value that is being actively skimmed from.

▲coldtea 23 minutes ago | parent [-]

>It's very normal to think that the extra revenue growth you bring in should mean you have either 1) a larger share of the pie for every efficiency increase that grows revenue or 2) less expectation from you, as a worker, to labor as intensively since you are continue to bring in surplus value that is being actively skimmed from.

It's also very normal to force businesses by law to either or both. But it's not happening these days.

▲oblio 19 minutes ago | parent [-]

That's what happens when people think the government should be run like a business.

▲paimapi 2 minutes ago | parent [-]

Arguably, I would say this has been a 50+ year-long project starting in the Reagan/Thatcher era that Clinton/Blair fully realized by ushering in de-regulatory, labor-disempowering neoliberal policies as part of the left political flank. There's been a lot written about this:

https://jacobin.com/2026/09/labour-callaghan-neoliberalism-m...

https://dissentmagazine.org/article/the-legacy-of-the-clinto...

https://sk.sagepub.com/hnbk/edvol/the-sage-handbook-of-neoli...

▲ 30 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
▲Aurornis 29 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Honest question: Where does the “AI booster” phrase come from? I only ever see it in online comment sections where certain people use it as a pejorative like this and everyone who uses it puts forth very similar ideas. Is this catchphrase something that comes out of a certain online community, political circle, or influencer?

▲paimapi 25 minutes ago | parent [-]

It's fairly widespread and has been normalized for years. A very quick internet search turned up this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/13/business/dealbook/ai-prod...

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/newe.12400

https://www.technologyreview.com/2025/12/23/1130393/how-soci...

▲Aurornis 5 minutes ago | parent [-]

I’m asking where it came from.

I know you can find it if you Google it, but that’s my point: It’s the shibboleth that these people use to signal their alignment with an ideology, and it’s all the same thing.

I could have told you what those articles would have said before I began reading them because “AI booster” is a phrase associated with a very specific worldview. It gets dressed up prose about superiority and condescension for the “boosters” but it’s always the same thing.

It’s like many of the academic phrases that develop to signal alignment with an ideology and separate the insiders from the outsiders.

▲steveBK123 18 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

It speaks to a lack of understanding of the economy as a complex adaptive system.

Same idea with all these agents that are going to negotiate our insurance down, haggle with our cell phone providers, and find the best hotel deals.

Your counterparty will have its own agent, a larger budget for that agent, and a lot more skin in the game to ensure they retain their advantage (cell phone bills are 100% of the cell companies income but is only 0.5% of your spending). Good luck.

▲petesergeant 6 minutes ago | parent [-]

> Your counterparty will have its own agent, a larger budget for that agent, and a lot more skin in the game to ensure they retain their advantage

I did some work on negotiating agents. This doesn’t have to be a zero sum game. If you can craft a per-user package effectively (for many services) then both sides end up with a better deal, and competition in the market stops the provider entity from dictating terms.

▲conception an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You are missing a critical third - people organize and via unions or the polls push back and require less work. There is no reason we aren’t working seven days a week beyond people fighting not to.

▲simias an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I'm very pro-union but I feel like at this point attempting to organize will just speed up the process of replacing as many people as possible with machines, not slow it down. It's too little, too late.

I don't understand what kind of society we're building right now. Anthropic and other AI labs at $20T valuations, the 1% monopolizing all the wealth and the rest of us out of a job and fighting for the scraps?

There seems to be some sort of magical thinking within the AI crowd at the moment, that it'll all work itself out in the end.

- Build the God Machine

- ??????

- POST-SCARCITY UTOPIA!

▲iugtmkbdfil834 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Maybe, but from simple game theory perspective assuming one assumes this is the end product, union gives at least a chance at favorable outcome.

▲Ar-Curunir an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The middle part is most likely that many will die. (This is not an endorsement!)

▲NoidFonsense a few seconds ago | parent [-]

billions must die?

▲10111001 21 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I'm very pro-union but I feel like at this point attempting to organize will just speed up the process of replacing as many people as possible with machines, not slow it down. It's too little, too late.

Honestly, I think the only shot workers have is unionization plus really aggressive political action.

The problem is successful action will require setting aside pretty much all the culture war issues that are used to divide the working class, and I don't really see that happening. If anything culture-war polarization is getting worse. It will also require some formally-privileged groups like software engineers to jettison their self-deceptive libertarian delusions, and properly understand their true role in society (software engineers should have unionized pre-2022 when we had more economic power, but economic comfort and those delusions prevented it).

▲rayiner 2 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

[delayed]

▲smallmancontrov 12 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

The trouble with unionization is that it doesn't really address supply and demand, just bargaining. There are a dozen un-pulled levers available to bring aggregate labor supply and demand in balance. Overtime law, vacation policy, retirement policy, education funding, tax law (this is a big one -- taxes are obscenely lopsided on the labor/consumption economy vs the capital/investment economy), and so on. We need to pull those levers instead.

Yep, it's going to be a helluva fight.

▲redwood an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

No one is giving them a 20T valuation. That's an order of magnitude larger than the market is currently targeting

▲npc99 31 minutes ago | parent [-]

They are probably adding up Anthropic + a number of other companies

▲donbox an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

But but but... organizing.. be it in form of democractic/market processes (non-violent or otherwise) can act as a speed breaker.

▲pixl97 an hour ago | parent [-]

Hopefully we're not too late.

Large companies have been spending millions in propaganda and attacks to ensure that people in the US think that unions are pure communism. By the time we get enough people to make a difference there may be T100's stepping on our bones at this point.

▲solyin 28 minutes ago | parent [-]

The problem is everyone's financial cliff is different. If I lost my job today, I have enough saved up to last me X months. Yours is Y, someone else's is Z. I'm going to go hungry at the end of X plus whatever. But since you're going to go hungry at Y plus whatever, we aren't forced to agree on what the right time to stop and stand up is. Z over there has rich parents so they've got longer. Nevermind poor W over there who doesn't, and has shorter.

What a convenient little trap we've set for ourselves. If everyone's money was set to run out at the same time, there'd be problems.

▲lkey 12 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

> I'm very pro-union BUT

You are 'pro' an abstract, unrealized union, which is not 'pro union' at all.

You have abdicated your obligation to align your actions with your stated beliefs.

Do not give up before trying. Do not believe the hype that your labour power doesn't matter. Even Amazon couldn't stop their most exploited workers from unionizing, is your company bigger that that? Is your position weaker than theirs?

Worse that can happen is that you started talking with your fellow workers and they aren't interested.

Just because SV is run by several millenarian cults doesn't mean you should take their delusions about neo slavery and feudalism (Thiel/Yarvin; your doomerism stems from here) or apotheosis (anthropic, EA) as inevitable. You should assume they believe their own hype, but not assume they understand material reality outside their insular social bubbles.

Thiel's last 3 or 4? attempts at building his techo-utopia collapsed before even starting; They have no motion outside of what they can purchase.

▲LeBit 4 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I work in a unioned environment. I use AI.

My boss would never dream asking I crank more because I now have AI help.

That guy saying there were only two possible outcomes doesn’t know about the beauty of unions.

▲dotancohen 44 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

  > There is no reason we aren’t working seven days a week beyond people fighting not to.
Religious edict - most prominently the Sabbath in Western civilization - have mandated a day of rest every seventh day for at least 3000 years.
▲stuaxo 26 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Sure but proper weekends are much much more recent.

But far away enough that we need to look at this again and get more time back to the workers.

▲Cyph0n 25 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Did religious edict also eliminate child labor, give us more humane working hours, and establish labor laws? Or was that because of unions?

▲Aurornis 31 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think you’re not seeing the whole picture about pushing back: It doesn’t happen in a vacuum. People have options to organize and push back but it doesn’t automagically make their demands possible. Companies also have options to push back, move the work to other locations, withdraw from markets that aren’t conducive to work, and now, look at automations.

Much of this unionization conversation has lot the plot about how unionization is about collective bargaining, but you still have to bargain. Both sides have options and you can’t come to the bargaining table with a belief that you can get whatever you want by threatening to strike or quit. There are limits to this and they’re decided by markets and technology.

▲smallmancontrov 26 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

and politics. The last wave of worker bargaining wins happened in the wake of the Great Depression when the last of the capitalist prosperity gospel promises were defaulted upon and the electorate finally became willing to consider alternatives other than giving rich people everything they wanted all of the time and hoping it would trickle down.

I'm hoping we don't need another Great Depression this time, a collapsing economy brought about by mistaken belief by those on top that they should have the right to keep it all... but that might be exactly what we need. We'll see.

▲Aurornis 11 minutes ago | parent [-]

Politics also doesn’t happen in a vacuum. You treat organization and politics like they’re neat tools that the populace only needs to wake up and discover, after which they get everything they want.

The Great Depression politics example is useless when we’re discussing AI knowledge work in a global economy. People in one country could organize to try to force companies to give them more money for less work that they can do with AI. They could try. It might work for a while. Then companies in every other country would jump on the opportunity to use the same AI to do the same work without those restrictions.

▲smallmancontrov 6 minutes ago | parent [-]

"Growth mentality" is only convincing if you're actually delivering the growth, though. If your threat is that demanding more will mean our billionaires have a lower number than their billionaires... your offer is not compelling. Take a hike.

▲ 24 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
▲uludag 25 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think even apart from unionizing, if all/ the employees at company aren't AI jockeying, more work isn't necessarily demanded. I realize you have to have relatively decent management too. I consider myself extremely lucky to work for a company that hasn't been beating the drum of AI maximalism and our work load in general has stabalized.

Obviously things can change but in general I feel AI jockeying is the exact opposite of showing solidarity with the people you work with.

▲oytis 23 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That's what German unions did in the 90s. In the end it only undermines productivity of the national economy while competitor countries eat your lunch.

▲teekert an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm pro unions and come from a social county. I'm self employed though, if I start relaxing, my "competitors" outrun me instantly. Bye bye assignments. This seems like primary school level reasoning to me, I also don't understand the premise of the article.

What stops me from working more than others is being smarter than my competitors right now. Not being smarter in any objective, fixed way. To keep it that way I must constantly evolved, learn.

Yes, micromanaging AIs is more intense for me than coding, and feels more tiring, I hope that (or I) will change, somehow.

▲bnorton 35 minutes ago | parent [-]

I started asking for specific example/answers each time a conversation stopped before of the end of the task. I got the sense that frequent checkpointing is baked into Opus 5.5. I then added some language that amounts to “carry this through to completion only stopping if you’re truly blocked” and it really helped lengthen the loop

▲rayiner 42 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Somebody should do a economic analysis of how technology affects unions. I bet the availability of automation has a lot more to do with the downfall of the unions than the political changes that are commonly described to that phenomenon. Similarly, I bet the availability of AI will have a devastating effect on any white collar unions.

▲rco8786 32 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

History is not in the side of this argument

▲Buttons840 11 minutes ago | parent [-]

Details are not on the side of yours. Care to elaborate and contribute at least something to the conversation?

▲nkrisc 41 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I agree, but I was commenting on things as I believe they currently are.

▲epolanski 14 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Unions worked in the pre-globalized world.

Once companies can just outsource anything from manufacturing to services the only categories that can really unionize with success are those that can de facto block everything at once (port workers are an example).

▲Razengan an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Em96NVxO9Q — So This is Progress (Terry Jones, BBC, 1991)

Apparently, minute hands were added to clocks so factory owners could extract more work from their employees.

Medieval people used to own more property (though not technologically equivalent of course) and "owned" more of their time than the average person today.

----

As for the title of this post, I can testify to that: As a solo coder, AI has actually increased the amount of work I do - but in a good way!

Even on non vibe-coded stuff, AI reviews keep helping me finding bugs and inconsistencies to fix that would have taken ages to even notice on my own

but more than that, whenever I have the faintest idea about anything, I can immediately put it to practice and explore it further or move on to other ideas.

Even when I'm outdoors away from my computer doing some normal life stuff in meatspace, I often think of stuff and pull out my phone and open the ChatGPT app to remote into my computer's Codex.

This is actually fun.

▲pigpop 5 minutes ago | parent [-]

> Medieval people used to own more property (though not technologically equivalent of course) and "owned" more of their time than the average person today.

That's a pretty serious misconception unless by "medieval people" you mean the nobility. Common peasants had some hereditary title to the land they worked but the land itself was owned by the lord and the king. They were more like hereditary tenants but much worse off contractually than our modern interpretation of a tenant would suggest since they (and their progeny) were often obligated to remain on their land and work it without the option to go elsewhere. They paid their rent in labor and produce or sometimes money if they had any. They had parcels of land that are large by modern standards because they were farmers and they had to sustain themselves on what they grew on their land as well as give a portion of what they produced to the lord that actually owned the land.

They may have "owned" more of their time in that they weren't employed in the modern sense but they still had to put in as much work as it would take to feed themselves and pay their rent. They absolutely had to perform the work their lord demanded of them which might include additional agricultural labor on other plots of land or threshing grain.

It really wasn't a better system. Agricultural labor is gruelling without modern equipment. It's even worse when your life depends on it. Not being allowed to choose where to live or choose your occupation and having that apply to your children and your children's children is worse.

Imagine if you were permanently contracted with your landlord. You could never move to another apartment and your children were obligated to live in the same apartment. On top of that you had to do the maintenance work for the building whenever the landlord asked you to and you still had to pay him rent on top of that. You'd still be slightly better off than a peasant because you wouldn't have to be a subsistence farmer.

▲__alexs 39 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Unions do not exist in a vacuum. They have to operate in the same fundamental power structures as everyone else.

If union A is like "work less let AI take the slack" and union B is like "work the same, use AI to achieve more, let AI help us win" I'm joining union B every time.

▲spacebanana7 33 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Unions also require the right structural conditions.

For example waste management generally has very strong unions in the developed world because 1) capital intensity 2) operations immediately seize on labour withdrawal 3) consequences of strikes are in a golden zone of painful but not existential so are tolerated 4) extract a relatively small proportion of local gov funds, so don’t create that much powerful opposition 5) labour force is locally concentrated and highly socialised.

Those pillars of power don’t rely much on any particular legal or political system.

▲bdavisx 30 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

If you're not getting a part of that "achieve more" profit, why should you care? Because I don't see the profit being shared with the workers, at all.

▲thomasahle 9 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Wages do historically appear to grow slightly above inflation: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q so some of the productivity gain is captured by the workers.

How much, presumably, depends on their bargaining power, such as unions or low unemployment.

The question is not so much how AI affects productivity, but how it affects the economic value of human labor.

▲trollbridge an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

We have our own small boutique software type of business, so we aren't dealing with "employers", but all of us have never worked more, and for less (per hour) pay. Customers simply have higher expectations now, and we have to compete globally with basically an entire planet willing to vibe-code things, along with internal pressure at clients of "we can just do this ourselves".

So that means shipping higher quality, faster, with more features, and for a lower end price.

▲jve 41 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yeah, I also don't get why people expect to work 2 hrs instead of 8 and receive same salary.

Once you go from horse to tractor the fields increase but work hours doesn't decrease. And if you still use a horse, you are outperformed by the tractor guys who will sell stuff at less the price that you can sustain.

▲bagacrap 3 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I don't get paid more when I work 9 or 10 hours, do I?

I am theoretically paid on deliverables, not hours.

▲steele 36 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Because that's what they observe the executive management performing for multiple employers simultaneously and the definitional difference between salary and hourly wage.

▲stuaxo 29 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

We had to riot and sometimes people were killed rioting to secure the weekend.

If things are to rebalance again and give some of the productivity gains back to the rest of us, we should be working far less and I hope it comes with less of a fight than it took for us to get 2 days a week off.

It's been over 100 years now.

▲Ajedi32 9 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If the overall efficiency of the economy improves, "the same amount of money" can afford more things. You don't get a bigger share of the pie, but the pie gets bigger.

If you also want a bigger share of the pie you need to be one of the people driving its growth.

▲doginasuit 16 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> The only way it will result in less work and the same or better quality of life is if you’re self-employed or are employed by a compassionate human.

May we take this as an opportunity to recognize what a bad deal we get from most employers and build better companies. It's never been more possible. UBI is unlikely to happen and uncertain it would even be beneficial. If AI can lead to a better world, this seems like the most promising path.

▲Zak an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A rational employer is interested in how much value they can get, not how hard you work. In most cases, in the short term, an increase in efficiency means they can get more value from you working the same amount of the same pay.

▲iugtmkbdfil834 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

The problem is how 'hard work' is defined. Does staying after hours count? Not automatically, but managers everywhere use it as a proxy ( whether it is dumb position or not is an argument in itself ). Does carefully considering your options count? Does being anal when it comes to minute detail count? All of these are small dimensions of hard work, but we throw those vague terms willy nilly, because we hope the audience will accept our 'used key term values' within our message to them.

▲nkrisc an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Good thing all employers are rational.

▲ an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
▲thesuitonym 38 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yeah but if the AI is doing the work, why should I pay you?

▲InitialBP 24 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Because a human is operating it. You don't pay a truck or an airplane, you pay the people who drive, fly, maintain, and generally operate them.

▲jayd16 11 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Do it yourself then if you prefer. Same as it's ever been.

▲WelkinFolk 31 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

In that case, please just use the AI yourself and don't hire anyone ever.

▲hsuduebc2 41 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Keep in mind that developers at Amazon were pressured this year to burn through as many tokens as possible because their “rational” employer assumed that productivity equals tokens consumed. I experienced similar situations on my last project.

The abstract concept of value you mention is part of the same vocabulary managers use, and I believe they often end up confusing even themselves with it.

They are just as rational as any other human being.

▲pessimizer an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

> an increase in efficiency

An increase in efficiency in and of itself, maybe, but there is no such thing. The increase in efficiency has largely come from deskilling the job. Deskilling the job makes the employees time less valuable, because they can be substituted for another more easily.

[edit: it's important to mention that this is compatible with programmer ego trips. I consider myself a reasonably good programmer and I've been doing it for a long time, but AI has made me far more eligible for jobs in languages that I have never used on platforms that I have never worked with.]

But another factor is that just because you can do work faster doesn't mean there's more work to do, so if you were hitting all your deadlines before with two employees, now you can fire one. Which one that will be is the result of a reverse wage auction.

▲qwytw 40 minutes ago | parent [-]

> Deskilling the job makes the employees time less valuable, because they can be substituted for another more easily.

That's not that self evident yet. If AI is a multiplier it might be the other way around i.e. can a $300k engineer + unlimited tokens generate more a $200k in extra value compared to a $100k engineer? That should be much easier to achieve with AI than without it? The more you spend on tokens the more it makes sense to hire the most highly skilled people you can find since their salaries are no longer that significant.

I don't think the dynamics are similar to what they are e.g. during the industrial revolution since AI is more than capable of clicking the submit button on its own.

The issue is that wages are based on supply and demand and rarely directly related to how much value you generate.

▲coldtea 24 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>What kind of illusion must one be under to believe that employers would ever pay you the same amount of money to do less work?

There's the historical experience with early/mid 20th century unions, the establishment of the 8 hour workweek and worker rights, even Henry Ford's wage increases.

Not necessarily that they'd do it out of their own good heart, of course.

▲rkozik1989 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yeah, everybody wants freedom and flexibility from self-employment, but that's generally speaking not a realistic attainable goal. The most defensible small businesses are ones that are sweaty i.e. require a lot hard work and hours others just wont justify doing, and that's an extremely important facet because without employees its much easier for a business to catastrophically collapse. Pretty much by definition anything that requires low effort is easy to clone and thus become saturated.

▲m11a 7 minutes ago | parent [-]

Small business self-employment doesn’t care that much about saturation, I think, only the supply-demand relationship. See everything from Fiverr to coffee shops.

But yes, self-employment often is a lot of work.

▲chung8123 34 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I am surprised people don't look at this like hiring a plumber. When you hire a company to do something for you if they are doing less work and/or the work is easy enough you can do it yourself, you would not want to pay someone a lot to do the work.

▲jiaosdjf 16 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Then we riot and burn it to the ground.

The value proposition is extremely simple:

1. Clankers do almost everything for us as ethical slaves

2. Everything costs next to nothing, from raw materials to finished products, and much of it can be done at home, sustainably and even better than we have it today

3. Society transitions towards utopia, basic needs met for all, away from hand-to-mouth, and we spend our time on friends, family, community and personal enrichment

The alternative is a dystopia beyond Orwellian.

People need to get this idea into their heads: our governments work for us and with almost infinite cheap robot labour and national resources the focus should be on society and not enriching some fucking crooks.

Its literally us or them, literally a fight for our lives

▲phyzix5761 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What does compassion have to do with it? If the industry requires more output or your business fails what options do you have?

Also, as someone who has been self employed I can tell you that you're working 2x-3x as much as someone who is employed and you have to pay more in taxes.

▲boringg an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If you don't recall the early innings of AI - that was a big promise from a vocal group of people.

▲nkrisc an hour ago | parent [-]

I do recall, I’m more surprised anyone would believe it.

▲geraneum 39 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> employers would ever pay you the same amount of money to do less work?

Shouldn’t they now pay more for more work?

▲spxcxlxxs 19 minutes ago | parent [-]

OP answered at the end, you would need to be

> employed by a compassionate human

I would add that companies are incentivised to chase profits, and paying employees more is not aligned with that, sadly.

▲geraneum 6 minutes ago | parent [-]

So are you saying they should be paying more for more work but they are not?

▲jvanderbot an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Oh but AI has wiped out some of the most tedious work I have to do. I can now easily work every waking minute, and some sleeping minutes, at a level approximately comparable to my prior 8h workload from 10 years ago if I wanted!

The amount of mental energy saved, and downright stimulation gained from seeing rapid feedback in a tight loop is making my workday much easier. I have enough left to continue it longer.

EDIT: Making the continuation mandatory would be a bad thing, but it's not bad that I can do this now.

▲y-curious an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I’m of two minds on this. Yes I get a lot more done. Yes I create a lot more bugs. Yes I have to spend a lot more energy understanding some things the AI does vs having written it myself.

It’s a mixed bag. I would say the worst part is that the increased level of output AND the increased level of tech debt is becoming accepted as the norm.

▲nkrisc 39 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I can now easily work every waking minute, and some sleeping minutes, at a level approximately comparable to my prior 8h workload from 10 years ago.

That is not something that should be celebrated.

It is a warning sign.

▲jvanderbot 34 minutes ago | parent [-]

I find it enjoyable to have the energy to think, and less cognitive overload by firing off a suggestion to be checked overnight.

You're right that this would be awful if mandatory.

but it often was socially mandatory!

At least when those times come, the work can go much further before I have to actually "check in" vs doing some well-trod analysis via automation I've set up. That's great!

▲hsuduebc2 33 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Marvelous AI psychosis. At last you are enjoying it.

▲jvanderbot 14 minutes ago | parent [-]

Jeez, great place for discussion about new tech then. What precisely went wrong - me expressing enjoyment at finally being able to try new ideas, statements about my actual work hours, or diverging from consensus?

And what does this have to do with psychosis - is that a general catch-all term for using AI too much?

▲causal an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

At best all we can do is make knowledge work cheaper right now. But knowledge work was never the bottleneck behind energy prices, food production, transportation, cargo, etc.

▲KeplerBoy an hour ago | parent [-]

It kind of was though? It was knowledge work that brought us fertilizers, tractors, trucks and large ships, which in turn made food as abundant as it is today.

Otherwise most of us would still toil on the fields just to harvest a tiny bit more food than our immediate family needs.

▲qwytw 36 minutes ago | parent [-]

> It was knowledge work that brought us fertilizers, tractors, trucks and large ships, which

Yes but the number of people who actually worked on the R&D and the amount of time they spent on it is absolutely insignificant on the grand scale of things.

▲redwood an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's not that simple. In a time of massive flux and shake up you have to be ready to jump to different kinds of roles in different kinds of organizations. Maybe you've been an enterprise and need to jump to a startup or the reverse... or maybe you've been in an internal only role and need to move into a customer facing role or any number of other possibilities. Admittedly one way of interpreting the need for evolving is that it could be exhausting so in that sense the author has a point but it's not as black and white as you imply. At any moment in time there are growth areas in the economy and growth teams within companies and there are atrophying or declining areas of the economy or teams within companies. These macrodynamics are just as important as who you happen to work for and what the tools du jour mean for your work. But they require you to be intentionalable about making changes

▲pixl97 33 minutes ago | parent [-]

>you have to be ready to jump to different kinds of roles in different kinds of organizations.

How did that work out in 1933?

There are limits to how much an economy can shake up before structural problems appear that means when the music stops there is no chair anywhere for you to sit in.

>At any moment in time there are growth areas in the economy

For bread line server?

Worse with the modern world you're not just competing with your neighbor, you're competing with the entire world and if the other parts of the world have lower costs you can quickly find yourself in a trap.

▲Juliate 28 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Oh, so in your view, productivity improvements are not meant to benefit the workers?

▲otikik 5 minutes ago | parent [-]

That is how it has always been (not that I agree with it).

▲Juliate a minute ago | parent [-]

That's more of a choice, than "how things are". That is, that's a matter of rules.

As in, a monopoly can exist if a society tolerates it.

▲esafak 30 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If productivity goes through the roof, working part-time may become normalized.

▲oulipo 42 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Exactly. That's why we NEED THE STATE to intervene and ask for wealth redistribution, because employers won't do it willingly

▲bluerooibos 8 minutes ago | parent [-]

That didn't happen when we got computers to do more work for us, over the last 30 years, and it won't happen now unless people get violent.

Massive productivity gains over the last few years and the rewards have all gone to shareholders, not working class people.

If they had, and workers rights, minimum wage etc had kept pace with the economy, we'd be on a 3 day week by now.

▲analog8374 25 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Technological progress only serves the ruling class. Can we say that?

▲esafak 21 minutes ago | parent [-]

No. You've seen no benefit from computers, domestic appliances, modern medicine?

You could argue that companies reap outsized benefits, and that the benefits are not shared fairly with workers.

▲analog8374 3 minutes ago | parent [-]

Well, if my life gets easier (from these benefits) then I can work harder at my job. That's the logic, right?

When I get stronger the load gets heavier. When I run faster the road gets longer.

▲esafak 2 minutes ago | parent [-]

The nature of the job changes too. With laptops and the internet, you can work real hard from the beach.

▲oorestisime 37 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[flagged]

▲sick_of_slop 37 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[dead]

▲bananaflag an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

> The opening premise baffles me. What kind of illusion must one be under to believe that employers would ever pay you the same amount of money to do less work?

I guess the idea that AI will do all the work and either take care of us or kill us all. Which will probably happen, but the transition takes years and in the meantime we work much harder. People were expecting a fast takeoff.