| ▲ | 10111001 an hour ago |
| > The opening premise baffles me. What kind of illusion must one be under to believe that employers would ever pay you the same amount of money to do less work? It seems like a pretty common misunderstanding in rank-and-file AI-boosterism. I'm guessing that reflects their initial experience, before their employer adjusts their expectations, extrapolated out to infinity. Your correct understanding makes AI sound like a bad deal for workers (and it is), so my theory AI-enthusiastic boosters have to engage in a degree of reality distortion to keep up their enthusiasm. |
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| ▲ | lelanthran a minute ago | parent | next [-] |
| Pretty large distortion, in the case of this blogger. He produces much more shareholder value. He works much more harder. He is much more tired. Exactly why does he think this is a good deal for him? Because he's VP of blah? The whole AI-boosterism is from people convinced that if only they can maximise shareholder value, their lot in life would improve. |
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| ▲ | jerf an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| On the plus side for us worker bees, this is why I never really bought in to the narrative that our jobs were inevitably doomed. A question I've posed a few times: Consider two reasonably similar competitors with 100 engineers two years ago. Suppose AI really does accelerate development 10x times. It doesn't (at least not yet) but the larger number helps bring the question into focus. One company fires 90 engineers and does the same work with the remaining 10. The other company keeps all its engineers and does 10 times the work. Who wins in the market? It's not a uniform answer. There are times and places where the first one wins, as well as a mixed strategy. But I think broadly speaking the majority answer is the second. |
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| ▲ | coldtea an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | >On the plus side for us worker bees, this is why I never really bought in to the narrative that our jobs were inevitably doomed. A question I've posed a few times: Consider two reasonably similar competitors with 100 engineers two years ago. Suppose AI really does accelerate development 10x times. It doesn't (at least not yet) but the larger number helps bring the question into focus. One company fires 90 engineers and does the same work with the remaining 10. The other company keeps all its engineers and does 10 times the work.
Who wins in the market? The one who understands that "10 times the work" is not necessarily absorbable by the market, and adjust to whatever lesser value still works, and still fires a lot of the 100. | | |
| ▲ | Buttons840 an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | A lot of the fired then make a Discord and casually replicate the company's product. That's how it will eventually pan out, but I guess the company gets a bag before the collapse. | | |
| ▲ | coldtea 19 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | >A lot of the fired then make a Discord and casually replicate the company's product. And they find out replicating the product means little, it's the customer base, industry reputations, connections, support, ecosystem, and stuff, that matter. | | |
| ▲ | hackyhacky 7 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Wait, you mean my vibecoded Facebook ripoff won't make me a billionaire like Zuck? Bummer. |
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| ▲ | Grombobulous 42 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This is why recessions often lead to a burst in new companies being founded. One of the experiences that stuck with my in my early career was when my coworkers heard talk of layoffs at their startup that was acquired by bigcorp, one of the first reactions was “maybe we should just do another startup.” I was taken aback at how casually that idea was thrown around. They didn’t even have a specific idea, just the casual thought that they could just start another company. | | |
| ▲ | coldtea 17 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | >I was taken aback at how casually that idea was thrown around. They didn’t even have a specific idea, just the casual thought that they could just start another company. That's how a lot of companies are made, even huge ones. Not everything comes from a specific focus, it's just "let's see what works to build a business that can make us money". | |
| ▲ | abanana 8 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It's the VC/Silicon Valley mindset. They want to be able to call themselves "entrepreneurs" and "founders"; the product has little importance compared to that. It goes some way to explaining why the vast majority fail. | |
| ▲ | Buttons840 35 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | "MegaCorp clearly wants to buy out any competition, so we should just leave and build the same thing again." And now you don't even have to use specialist knowledge, just describe the idea to AI and AI will implement it clean-room. |
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| ▲ | 10111001 an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | > A lot of the fired then make a Discord and casually replicate the company's product. And what's going to be the result of that? Can the market really support that many competitors comfortably, and/or are you setting yourself up for business failure or Chinese-style involution and 996? See, I want a comfortable happy life, not a stress-filled one of maximum market efficiency. AI + capitalism doesn't look like it's going to provide the former. | | |
| ▲ | Buttons840 44 minutes ago | parent [-] | | The market can't support it. The value of software will trend towards zero. The less society spends on developers, the less valuable software is. If the day comes that we employ zero developers, then software will be worth zero dollars. And yet, software will still be fulfilling an essential part of society, it just wont be a thing people are willing to pay for. So AI will still be around, and will still be essential (because somehow we have to maintain all this software), and AI will get better and better. Eventually any knowledge work will be worth zero. Including the C-suite--especially the c-suite! | | |
| ▲ | solyin 25 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Except, they're the ones holding the money. So they can farm their job off to an ai and retire to their yachts. |
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| ▲ | techpression 12 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | This... It's weird how companies and people think adding something is the same as adding value.
Feature creep was an issue even before AI, now we see one worse feature being added after the next (does anyone even know all the touch controls of iOS or even macOS, as an example), with some expectation of that there will be money coming in because of it. I benefit greatly from AI myself, but I use it to augment my capabilities, not as a slot machine for building things nobody will ever use, which seems to be the norm based on the products I use. |
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| ▲ | SoftTalker 3 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | 10x the work requires exponentially more communication and coordination. At least according to Brooks "Mythical Man-Month" thesis. There's more to creating a marketable product than churning out code. I'm not aware that AI really changes this. | |
| ▲ | hattmall 9 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Most non-commoditized reasonable paying jobs are a product of information asymmetry. Anything that shrinks that asymmetrical surface is a threat to jobs. The company you are missing is the one that fires 99 of their engineers, hires 200 generally lower performing but far cheaper engineers and uses AI to accelerate their output. Now whether or not that would actually work given the reality of the AI output is a question, but that's the general premise. | |
| ▲ | 0c3ca83 6 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Consider two reasonably similar competitors with 100 horses two years ago. Suppose AI really does accelerate development 10x times. One company fires 90 horses and buys 10 cars. The other company keeps all its horses. Do the horses win in the market? | |
| ▲ | anonzzzies 27 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I don’t think anyone has figured how to do 10x the work yet as we don’t know what the work is. AI cannot (yet) define the work that needs to be done, for some definition of needs to be done, and we need humans to figure that out for now. Us humans cannot work fast enough so we still build the same stuff but with less people. | |
| ▲ | neutronicus 26 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | The one who fires 90 engineers, just to see how things go with the 10, and then scales back up with cheaper off-shore talent if they can't keep up with demand. | | |
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| ▲ | paimapi an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Right. People don't understand the difference between labor and value. The job of a corporation is to extract as much surplus value from its workers as possible while making it as opaque as possible to individual workers the actual revenue they bring in. It's very normal to think that the extra revenue growth you bring in should mean you have either 1) a larger share of the pie for every efficiency increase that grows revenue or 2) less expectation from you, as a worker, to labor as intensively since you are continuing to bring in surplus value that is being actively skimmed from. |
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| ▲ | coldtea an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | >It's very normal to think that the extra revenue growth you bring in should mean you have either 1) a larger share of the pie for every efficiency increase that grows revenue or 2) less expectation from you, as a worker, to labor as intensively since you are continue to bring in surplus value that is being actively skimmed from. It's also very normal to force businesses by law to either or both. But it's not happening these days. | | | |
| ▲ | oceanplexian 21 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Whenever I read comments like these I feel like people are living in a completely different reality. Most of the tech companies I have worked at are ridiculously easy and generous, I get to work with smart people, and the entire job can be done in a few hours per week. It's not like we're doing manual labor and digging ditches; half the people on this website are laptop-class workers who occasionally use the slightest bit of energy to write a few lines of code or participate in a meeting. I show up to work and I often do extra because I like it. The company isn't "extracting" anything from me except the extremely consentual labor I want to give back simply out of the love of the game. If you don't feel that way, the problem isn't the capitalist system it's probably your own life choices. | | |
| ▲ | snapcaster 12 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | None of this changes the facts of the comment you're responding to. Every business must extract surplus value from their employee's work to be profitable. Nobody said every business has to be miserable, or not mask this extraction in fluffy terms. Doesn't mean it isn't happening though | |
| ▲ | halfmatthalfcat 14 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I completely agree and I think smart companies also understand this. There is still a lot of leverage employees have, especially in tech. Tech as "adult daycare" isn't a meme for no reason. | |
| ▲ | 12 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | singpolyma3 4 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | And yet even while you indolently phone it in, if you're any good they make a lot more off you than they pay you. |
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| ▲ | xg15 25 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| At this point I wonder if those aren't simply marketing shills or the usual kind of "pro-business" press articles that always push ridiculously optimistic takes on new technologies. Reminds me of the old press pieces along "with the new machines, the workers won't have to do this tedious and dangerous work anymore and will have so much more free time!" And free time they had... |
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| ▲ | bluGill 6 minutes ago | parent [-] | | What is missed is free time is just one good you can get. People like different "things". Sometimes that "thing" is free time. Sometimes that thing is more expensive food. Sometimes that thing is a bigger house. Sometimes that thing is... There are a lot of options. If you were willing to live like 1950 you could have the male working 20 hours a week and the female never leaving the home. What people forget is in 1950 having a black and white TV was unusual (though not uncommon) and color TV was still several years away. Your phone was a shared party line. You had one car which wasn't reliable by modern standards. |
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| ▲ | an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | steveBK123 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It speaks to a lack of understanding of the economy as a complex adaptive system. Same idea with all these agents that are going to negotiate our insurance down, haggle with our cell phone providers, and find the best hotel deals. Your counterparty will have its own agent, a larger budget for that agent, and a lot more skin in the game to ensure they retain their advantage (cell phone bills are 100% of the cell companies income but is only 0.5% of your spending). Good luck. |
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| ▲ | Ekaros 27 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Cell phone provider is funny one here. Effectively most efficient thing to do is to get a deal from competitor and then accept winback offer from them. You can not even properly negotiate for deals very often but somehow those winbacks end up being near best deals. Last time I got negative deal for them. Meaning my mobile and wired internet ended up less than wired internet was before... | |
| ▲ | petesergeant an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Your counterparty will have its own agent, a larger budget for that agent, and a lot more skin in the game to ensure they retain their advantage I did some work on negotiating agents. This doesn’t have to be a zero sum game. If you can craft a per-user package effectively (for many services) then both sides end up with a better deal, and competition in the market stops the provider entity from dictating terms. |
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| ▲ | Aurornis an hour ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Honest question: Where does the “AI booster” phrase come from? I only ever see it in online comment sections where certain people use it as a pejorative like this and everyone who uses it puts forth very similar ideas. Is this catchphrase something that comes out of a certain online community, political circle, or influencer? |
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| ▲ | paimapi an hour ago | parent [-] | | It's fairly widespread and has been normalized for years. A very quick internet search turned up this: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/13/business/dealbook/ai-prod... https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/newe.12400 https://www.technologyreview.com/2025/12/23/1130393/how-soci... | | |
| ▲ | Aurornis an hour ago | parent [-] | | I’m asking where it came from. I know you can find it if you Google it, but that’s my point: It’s the shibboleth that these people use to signal their alignment with an ideology, and it’s all the same thing. I could have told you what those articles would have said before I began reading them because “AI booster” is a phrase associated with a very specific worldview. It gets dressed up prose about superiority and condescension for the “boosters” but it’s always the same thing. It’s like many of the academic phrases that develop to signal alignment with an ideology and separate the insiders from the outsiders. | | |
| ▲ | paimapi 31 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | This is pedantic but that's not proper usage of 'shibboleth.' The basic conceit of an 'AI booster' is easily defined by the word 'booster' itself - it's someone who 'boosts' AI, likely without much actual subject matter expertise on the matter and the word 'booster' has a long etymology applied to various ideas: https://www.etymonline.com/word/booster When most theorists talk about shibboleths and impenetrable academic writing, it's in reference to terms like 'deterritorialization' or 'intertextuality' which are not immediately evident to most lay people who aren't armed with an etymological background or who once stumbled into an advanced course on literary theory in pursuit of a creative writing degree You could probably say that there's cultural capital associated with it but that's true of nearly any term describing an ideology or opinion. The very same AI boosters are guilty of coining things like 'orthogonality' or 'instrumentally convergent subgoals' which lean more towards being unnecessarily bombastic than descriptive (I guess 'intelligent but amoral' and 'self-preservation' aren't fancy enough for adoption) which loses the strongest argument for academic jargon like the one advanced by Butler: https://web.archive.org/web/20240630040227/https://www.nytim... | | |
| ▲ | user43928 21 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | To me it seems like a term that users pessimistic about AI and the future apply to those with an optimistic opinion. By speaking of boosting, they add an implication that the opinion isn't as genuine as their own and is perhaps motivated by some sort of financial benefit. Am I wrong? | |
| ▲ | Aurornis 17 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | > This is pedantic but that's not proper usage of 'shibboleth.' The basic conceit of an 'AI booster' is easily defined by the word 'booster' itself - it's someone who 'boosts' AI, It’s a shibboleth because it’s a highly specific phrase used by these people. The fact that it’s self-explanatory doesn’t take away from that. It’s a shibboleth in the way it’s used. I see the word “booster” applied more to AI than any other topic because it’s the shibboleth chosen to represent that specific set of ideologies about AI. |
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| ▲ | foobiekr 29 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | It’s a common phrasing in English and has nothing to do with any ideology. Booster replaced “cheerleader” for this purpose some time in the mid 2000s. See also “cryptocurrency booster” for another example. | | |
| ▲ | Aurornis 15 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I understand what it means. That’s not what I’m asking. “AI booster” appears 100X more often than I ever saw “cryptocurrency booster” and the phrase is always associated with people who have a specific ideology about AI. |
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