At least they don’t demand a bunch of extra tips. I’m European (well, Scandinavian, which some Europeans consider European and some don’t) and my rule of thumb is that if I go out I tip 10%.

If the service is extra good I might tip extra.

If the service is very bad (unreasonably slow, or staff forget or mix up the order in a significant way, or they are very rude), I tip 0%. Of course everyone can mess up things a little so it’s not like I immediately tip 0% just because of some minor thing. It has to be properly bad.

Also something I have learned from the Spanish is to always order something small and quick for the table even before we have decided what to eat. Then if it takes 40 minutes before the food comes it doesn’t matter that much compared to when you are starving for food. So this is a very neat trick that helps a lot to have a good experience even at slow places, and something I have started always doing.

One of the biggest cultural differences - for Spain - is that servers are seen as equals, not as a client-provider relationship. This reflects heavily in the language often used - "when you can, bring me X". Just one of the quirks of a low gini coefficient society.

And in Paris waiting to be seated a good amount of time is also part of their culture. As an American visiting it was a different experience but an interesting one.

Christopher Ryan said this on a Joe Rogan Experience episode.

I would rather have to tip, than lower my standard of living like that

As an American, I couldn't agree more. The server frequently stopping by to check on things is incredibly disruptive and annoying and I wish they'd just stop.

I'm fine with checking one time early enough in the meal that conversations haven't gone deep yet, but outside of that, I'm perfectly capable of signalling if we need anything.

Seems like poor training and professionalism. Well run establishments typically train staff in silent service for this very reason, to not interrupt guest conversations.

I agree it's super annoying, but I can say for sure it's not limited to the US. Has also happened to me many times over here in Ireland/the UK. Usually by waiting staff that are a little inexperienced. Of course the people I'm in conversation with at the time are probably relieved to have a break from me rabbiting on...

I find this scene from a popular TV show captures it well...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjfQ6soLSAU&t=12s

At least you get free water in the US. Here you either need to order outrageously priced bottled water or beg.

This is just bad training. Water should be brought out and refilled without asking.

"Is everything okay here?"

The answer is always yes. I'd come get you if it weren't.

Experienced servers will usually try to 'feel out' a table to understand if they are in a rush, demanding, want to converse, etc. The same behavior that feels rude when you're catching up with old friends is often welcomed by a table that might have limited time to eat or that prefer to have things done without waiting or flagging someone down.

You do realize that it's perfectly acceptable and commonplace to explain your group's preferences to the server upon first being introduced? You're really telling them exactly what would make you happiest while also reducing the effort they need to spend on your group, a mutually beneficial setup.

Of course, incentives may not align in certain scenarios. On a busy night/time or at restaurants that don't have lots of seating, having a table that they can't 'turn over' quickly may be undesirable, especially if purchases (another round of drinks) aren't being made occasionally.

The US restaurant industry runs/ran on exploited, immigrant labor, which is now in short supply for obvious reasons.

https://foodinstitute.com/focus/labor-shortages-costly-probl...

> Nearly 16 million people worked in restaurants last year, representing about 10% of the national workforce, and 62% of operators said recruiting and keeping employees is a real headache. “The reasons for staffing shortages are both cyclical and structural,” Milos Eric, co-founder and general manager of OysterLink, told FI, noting government statistics showed 44,000 hospitality jobs were added in March alone, but 167,000 openings remained unfilled nationwide.

> “The reasons for staffing shortages are both cyclical and structural,” Milos Eric, co-founder and general manager of OysterLink, told FI, noting government statistics showed 44,000 hospitality jobs were added in March alone, but 167,000 openings remained unfilled nationwide. Eric said deportation is compounding the problem, considering government data shows 37% of cooks and 5% of dishwashers are foreign-born.

https://restaurant.org/research-and-media/research/restauran...

These jobs can be filled with domestic US workers, simply pay living wages.

It seems like the universal standard in my area is that the server plunks down my food dishes and immediately asks if I would like anything else with that. And I don't know about neurotypical patrons, but in my mind it is impossible for me to process whether I will need anything else while the server is standing right there, staring at me and waiting for me to answer. So invariably I am forced to say "no" and then, more often than not, I belatedly discover what it is that my meal also needed, and so I wait to flag them down again (this necessarily involves not picking up utensils and not eating anything, so that they notice there is something amiss.)

I really haven't been smothered by checkups every few minutes. When the servers are really good, they can anticipate when you need something by simply looking at you and your table. They know when your drink is empty and when you want it filled. A server should rarely need to ask that stuff verbally. If they are continually checking up, they are inexperienced or insecure.

After I make my order, the server will usually try and take my menu. Lately I've said "I'd like to hold on to this" and they love when you do that! I don't always follow-up with another order, but sometimes I just need an extra side dish, or a dessert.

I've had that overstaffed experience, too. There are one or two small chains around here that employ 3x as many servers as they need. And their rooms are always 1/5th full or less. So the moment I walk in, there are 3-4 people greeting me and escorting me to a table, before I can even pull off my hat and gloves. In the same place, while they don't appear to do "team service" I would meet one waitress, and then get fobbed off on another guy for no stated reason. If they are sharing tips, a lot of slices to that pie.

No. After you've ordered, it is rare to order anything else. You might ask for a refill of a beverage or something like ketchup, but the waiter is not expecting more ordering. It's simply expected by diners that their waiter is there and will help with whatever they need. In Europe you'll wait 20 minutes to get the attention of a waiter for salt or ketchup until your food is cold. Also in Europe this will be described not as dead time waiting for a small thing, but as culture. European culture.

It is kind of a culture shock between France and the US:

- French visiting the US: why is the waiter coming at us, does he want us out?

- American visiting France: what is the waiter waiting for, didn't he notice we are finished?

If France, if the waiter comes after you have finished your meal and asks you if you are done, it is usually a polite way of asking you to leave, usually because the restaurant is about to close. You are supposed to call the waiter when you are done, or, more commonly in casual restaurants, go pay at the cash register.

What you are describing is not team service because the server "owns" the customer and are the one who will collect the tip from that table.

What you are noticing is that many chains have a "full hands" rule: if any server with free hands walks past a table with dirty dishes on the way to the kitchen, they are expected to pick them up no mater who's section it is. Also, if they are heading out from the kitchen with free hands they are expected to run out some dishes no matter what table they are for.

Not if they are (hardly) paid anything. Then pile on staff!

As a European, I expect the waiter to show their face within 5 minutes, at least to ask if we want anything to drink while still determining what to eat.

At restaurants at least, most people I know just default tip 20% and only adjust up or down in pretty rare circumstances. Maybe it’s different in other parts of the US or for other generations, but I recall studies supporting that people generally have a set percent they always tip.

Japan has a lot of the same things, but no tipping. Although the tradition of "checking in" to see if you need anything seems to not be very prevalent - instead people either press a button or call out for the staff if they need something.

> want to be coddled and always want to feel like they are the king of the world. Greeters at Walmart, cashiers not being allowed to sit but have to stand for "respect",

I thought the greeters were an anti-shoplifting technique, "hello someone saw you here" kind of thing.

And putting a seat in the checkout station means they can't be packed quite as closely and also gets in the way when someone else needs to tag in to ring up booze or whatever.

I’ve spent about five weeks in the US split across two trips. At home, I eat out very very regularly, at both very nice and very shabby places, and varied places. I pretty much immediately came to your conclusion… within hours of each visit, if not less. it’s so jarring, and artificial, and tacky. I can’t imagine being so delusional as to have any of this stuff be a positive experience. I hate it. And I’m far from an introvert, but these social interactions are not genuine and they go out of their way to make you feel like you’re superior. I hate it and I think that it says a lot about the US. It’s part of what makes me just have a background feeling of being on edge the entire duration of my visit, in a way that I’ve never felt in other countries, even those that have a much larger cultural difference from my own, and that I should really feel less ‘at home’ in.

I could say the same about US restaurants. I want to socialise with the people I'm sharing the meal with, not some random waiter. The servers are constantly interrupting, ruining the mood and you feel unwelcome like they want to get you out the door the moment your plate is empty (because that's exactly what they want). It's like being on a conveyor belt.

I've been in hundreds of not fancy restaurants across Europe in my life, in many countries. The service speed in like 95% of all cases is at maximum or vary close to it. It's between 0 to 1-2 minutes to get menu, then 0 to 1-2 minute to flag a waiter and order, and that all delays possibly induced by the serving staff. The rest is just how long it takes to cook and is not relevant here. So maybe USA shaves off a few tens of seconds of that, and pays for that with tens of dollars per visit plus suffers an annoying questions all the time, while I'm eating. No thanks.

Maybe you guys like your USA service model. Maybe Europeans are mistaken about USA service model. But one thing is certain - you USA guys have zero idea about speed of service on average in European cafes and restaurants, judging by your comments :) .

> European dining is the worst

Europe has 40+ countries with what, a million, restaurants… let’s conflate them all! Horrible! The whole continent! 1 star (and not a Michelin one)!

I live in half Europe for the past 15 years and have been to more restaurants than I can count. Typical service is courteous and efficient. Of course there are outliers, too.

Repeat business is rewarded like in most places. I frequent many cafes and restaurants where I'm recognized and treated like family even though I have never once tipped there.

Not sure which destinations you're eating in, but as someone who lives in "Europe", that's not been a regular occurrence at all. Generally, the waiting times are not so long and service is reasonable. There are of course experiences at both end of the spectrum. I've walked out of a Vienna cafe once because I waited 20 minutes for someone to bring the bill. Three steps out the door the waiter chased me down and I paid the bill. Problem solved. However, I've also been in situations where I us want the wait-staff to bugger off and let me enjoy my meal and conversation in peace. Usually, the service is somewhere in between.

In the Netherlands this has been my experience many times. By the time they finally come to take your order (which is always "what would you like to drink?", requiring me to say "actually I'm ready to order the food as well") - I would have already been eating in many other countries.

The reason I think is a mix of things: firstly people really want to make a night of it, seeing the whole dinner as an experience, and secondly the amount of staff (both waitstaff and in the kitchen) won't support a faster process.

Edit: it's not a case of better or worse, just different expectations going in

Ah much generalisation. Europe is over 40 countries with vast differences in quality of service and restaurant culture. I have been to restaurants in many European countries and the only generalisation I can make is that tip culture does not exist in Europe.

Have you tried eating out while not in a rush?

People over the Atlantic just have a better concept of social gathering as opposed to neediness of being served and staffed with food.

People come to a place to have fun and talk for a few hours or their free time. Drinks and food coming and going is just a small nuance. 10 minutes (often way less of course) for drinks to arrive is mostly okay. Nobody is busy waiting for them.

It seems your expectations are very mismatched. Most restaurants operate because people go there occasionally and relax and socialize.

If you just want a quick meal there's more than enough places but you generally order at the counter there, don't sit and wait for a server.

Since COVID many restaurants (in Spain at least) no longer offer you a menu, you can view it via a QR code that there's on every table.

Also, those times depend on the place and location. The ones I've been lately were pretty fast

If you're upset that you wait then maybe something like McDonald's would be better for you. When you go out to eat, you're also going out to socialize and enjoy your time.

It happens, but rarely this bad, as they would lose customers.

Some extremely touristic areas can get away with anything.

> European dining is the worst, every time I am back stateside I feel like im being waited on in the white house or something fancy.

Part of European dining is the social aspect, that gets ruined when you're constantly being asked if you want another drink.