| ▲ | rock_artist 14 hours ago |
| It depends and also is culture based.
In Spain you can find some places (eg coffee place) with 1-2 workers. Sometimes it takes a lot of time to get your order at rush hours, but the culture tolerates patience and waiting. |
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| ▲ | QuantumNomad_ 14 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| At least they don’t demand a bunch of extra tips. I’m European (well, Scandinavian, which some Europeans consider European and some don’t) and my rule of thumb is that if I go out I tip 10%. If the service is extra good I might tip extra. If the service is very bad (unreasonably slow, or staff forget or mix up the order in a significant way, or they are very rude), I tip 0%. Of course everyone can mess up things a little so it’s not like I immediately tip 0% just because of some minor thing. It has to be properly bad. Also something I have learned from the Spanish is to always order something small and quick for the table even before we have decided what to eat. Then if it takes 40 minutes before the food comes it doesn’t matter that much compared to when you are starving for food. So this is a very neat trick that helps a lot to have a good experience even at slow places, and something I have started always doing. |
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| ▲ | bilekas 14 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I have to ask, why are you tipping 10% before the service is extra good? I'm really against the idea that the company isn't responsible for paying their staff properly. Setting a baseline of 10% just says to me that the restaurant owners can just pay their staff less. And if the server is having an off day or just didn't meet your particular standards then they're losing money. | | |
| ▲ | alexrp 14 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I think it depends on location. It would be a bizarre approach in Scandinavia because the consensus here is that companies must pay their employees a decent baseline salary -- which unions negotiate across the whole sector -- so there's no expectation of a tip by default. But for much of the rest of the world, it's not a given that working conditions are as good. | |
| ▲ | rapnie 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I think in the Netherlands the general rule is to tip up to 10% depending how good the service was, unless it was excellent and you go higher. When drinking a couple coffees in a restaurant it is okay to tip with a single Euro for good service, even if that doesn't amount to 10%. | | |
| ▲ | Freak_NL 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | This is despite the unfortunate and rude trend of payment devices now offering a big dickover screen filled with obscene tip suggestions first (25% in a fucking chain fastfood place?), because with the decline of cash the old way of rounding up the bill dies out too. | | |
| ▲ | palata 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | This. Now you withdraw money at an ATM and it offers you to give a 25% tip. People who are not used to tips (i.e. foreigners visiting the US) don't necessarily know when they should and when they shouldn't give a tip. When in doubt, should they or should they not tip 20%? The whole concept is just very weird. | |
| ▲ | navane 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | There's always the zero button and I always mash it happily. |
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| ▲ | my-next-account 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Please stop tipping unless the service is very good. Hell, the quality of the service could be reflected in the cost of the food (it is), and you don't need to tip at all. Thank you,
A Swede. | | |
| ▲ | hammock 14 hours ago | parent [-] | | I also tip 10% in Europe unless I see a table/service charge added, and I will gladly stop if you say so | | |
| ▲ | thevinter 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | If there's no service charge added explicitly then that amount is usually directly factored in the cost of the food and redistributed to the service staff. As far as I know there are currently no EU countries where tipping contributes towards salary. However, contrary to what many might say, tipping has been a part of European culture for a very long time (especially in the UK, Germany and some Slavic countries). You won't offend basically anyone if you don't tip, since it's basically considered an extra thanks for the service, but small tips/round-ups are fairly common[0] and sadly somewhat important in countries with lower minimum wages or heavily seasonal tourism. *That said*, while I have nothing against tips as a purely voluntary contribution, I'm of the idea that - regardless of traditions and customs - the push to de-normalize compulsory tips is of fundamental importance for establishing (and keeping) decent wages for staff. [0]: from a few euros, up to 10%. The new 15/20/25% model is purely American and predatory in nature | |
| ▲ | simgt 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | No one looks at the details of the bill, the wages are included in the cost | |
| ▲ | sofixa 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | In France it's added in the cost of items - sometimes there is a mention of it somewhere on the menu. | | |
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| ▲ | vages 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I'm also Scandinavian (Norwegian), and I never tip when going out. I can't think of any long-term outcome of a tipping culture that is efficient for the workers and employers, even if the amount the customer tipped was correlated with quality (the research I've read shows it's got more to do with looks). It is simply more efficient that both parties know what they are agreeing to up front when (1) the worker still has to go to work for 3 months when they resign and (2) the employer has to pay them (and their replacement) full wages during training. | | |
| ▲ | stasomatic 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I tip (live in US) as we are shamed into it, but I find the relationship between the customer and staff subservient and dehumanizing. The service folks must do the dance and check on you every 5 minutes ("Are we doing good here, hon?) while I in turn must come up with a fake smile and a thumbs up. What else am I gonna do? It's all kinds of weird but unlikely to change. A couple of decades ago I had a waiter run out to the street after me, midtown Manhattan, a sushi/tappas place, sternly inquiring as to why I didn't tip them. I simply forgot, it was very late. I didn't need that. | |
| ▲ | philipallstar 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It's definitely efficient for the worker. There's no employee tax or income tax on that money. The worker just gets the money directly. | | | |
| ▲ | anal_reactor 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I never tip because if burger with fries costs €15 then we had a fucking legal contract that you'll give me a burger with fries for €15, don't be like "uuuuuuh sir I'm going to ruin your evening by asking you to pay more at the checkout time because reasons". |
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| ▲ | bluebarbet 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | What Europeans think that Scandinavia is not in Europe? | |
| ▲ | detourdog 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I’m from the USA and had the experience in Switzerland where the server refunded money due to my overtipping. | | |
| ▲ | hammock 14 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | That’s funny. When there recently, I had a woman put the cc machine back in my face with a pouty look after I had plugged in 10%. She was non-Swiss herself though and I read it as trying to take advantage of a tourist | | |
| ▲ | philipallstar 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | > She was non-Swiss herself though and I read it as trying to take advantage of a tourist Why would being non-Swiss make someone more likely to take advantage of a tourist? | | |
| ▲ | anotherboffin 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | Not the OP, but I guess they meant non-Swiss as someone who might be used to a different set of tipping norms? |
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| ▲ | Sentralis 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I lived in Swizterland, but never experienced any refund. Some places would reject tips outright when asked or point out that your tip is excessive, but a refund? | | |
| ▲ | detourdog 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | Refund might be the wrong term she handed back what she felt she wasn’t entitled to. |
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| ▲ | Gud 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Your 10% rule is absolutely not representative of Scandinavian tipping culture. |
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| ▲ | ricardobayes 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| One of the biggest cultural differences - for Spain - is that servers are seen as equals, not as a client-provider relationship. This reflects heavily in the language often used - "when you can, bring me X". Just one of the quirks of a low gini coefficient society. |
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| ▲ | xyzelement 14 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Just yesterday there was a story on HN about Spain's dying villages and a commenter who I assumed was Spanish attributed theow beth rate to income inequality. Which is it - low gini for talking to a waiter, high gini for starting a fam? | | |
| ▲ | frikskit 14 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It’s not surprising to anyone that two random Spaniards may disagree on whether a number like this is high or low. That’s because Spaniards don’t all get together to agree on a common position for online posting; and because high/low depends on the context and comparison to other countries. Spain’s gini coefficient indicates it is much more equal than USA, but not as equal as, say, Denmark. | |
| ▲ | kubb 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | You can’t hold two separate people accountable for their contradictory statements. | | |
| ▲ | pjc50 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | "goomba fallacy", if you need a name for this phenomenon. | |
| ▲ | account42 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | You can however point out conflicting information. | | |
| ▲ | jgwil2 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | This is opinion, not information. Of course people's opinions will conflict. | |
| ▲ | kubb 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | You can, just don’t demand from from one of these people to explain the difference with what the other person said. |
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| ▲ | mcny 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I don't think it is a fair comparison. The cost of raising a child can still be too high even in a fairly low gini country. In fact I'd say gini has nothing to do with birth rate. Birth rate declines when parents have confidence that there is a good likelihood their children will survive to adulthood. It is often easy to forget that just five hundred years ago almost one of two infants born didn't survive into adulthood. Low birth rates are good. Don't let anyone say otherwise. | |
| ▲ | ricardobayes 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | In my opinion, low birth rates can't be attributed to income, or income inequality. I feel like it's more about optimism, to have kids you have to be optimistic about the future. | | |
| ▲ | inigyou 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | A lot of pessimism is caused by the current inequality. | | |
| ▲ | KptMarchewa 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | A lot of pessimism is caused by the relative change of inequality. | | |
| ▲ | inigyou 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | True. Feudalism was the norm throughout human history. But those nobles had limited power because they didn't have the communications technology we have today. |
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| ▲ | agile-gift0262 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I'm saying this based on anecdotal observations from my biased POV, so take this with a grain of salt. There are income differences, but most are inter-city/region differences. I'd say within a specific city or region, it's low gini, but there's a high gini if you compare cross-region. Income and costs in a village in rural Spain are less than half that of a "mid-tier" city, and less than a third or even quarter of that of Barcelona or Madrid | |
| ▲ | myrmidon 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Low Gini compared to the US, but mediocre for a European country (comparable to France, Germany, Italy; significantly worse compared to low-Gini regions like Scandinavia). | |
| ▲ | UqWBcuFx6NV4r 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | If anyone said this about the country that you’re from (based on this attitude, we all know what my guess is) you’d immediately clock how absurd it sounds. | |
| ▲ | cma 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Gini: Spain << US
Youth unemployment: Spain >>> US
Living with parents: Spain >>> US
First birth age: Spain >>> US
Fertility: Spain << US
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| ▲ | hammock 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Easily attributed less to Gini coefficient and more to the difference between a Western European approach to hospitality (structured management, technical precision and formal) and a Mediterranean one (warmth, relational connection, informal) as seen in Xenia, islamic tradition, etc | | |
| ▲ | bluebarbet 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | Two clichés to be contrasted with another two: the smiling first-name-terms coffee-shop barista in Hamburg, and the coldly brusque waiter in some Roman caffè storico. All these generalizations are as slippery as a bar of soap. |
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| ▲ | rglullis 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Oh, please. This reeks of a anglocentric worldview. Most places are like that. The exception to this rule is the US and franchise/chain restaurants that they have around the world. | | |
| ▲ | ricardobayes 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | Well, yes. That's why I labelled it as a "quirk", however as it looks people really seemed to have read a whole lot of other things into it. |
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| ▲ | paul7986 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| And in Paris waiting to be seated a good amount of time is also part of their culture. As an American visiting it was a different experience but an interesting one. |
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| ▲ | chistev 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Christopher Ryan said this on a Joe Rogan Experience episode. |
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| ▲ | hammock 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| I would rather have to tip, than lower my standard of living like that |
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