| ▲ | Jakarta is now the biggest city in the world(axios.com) |
| 190 points by skx001 17 hours ago | 119 comments |
| |
|
| ▲ | decimalenough 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| I used to spend a lot of time in Jakarta for work, and it's an underrated city. Yes, it's hot, congested, polluted and largely poor, but so is Bangkok. Public transport remains not great, but it's improved a lot with the airport link, the metro, LRT, Transjakarta BRT. SE Asia's only legit high speed train now connects to Bandung in minutes. Grab/Gojek (Uber equivalents) make getting around cheap and bypass the language barrier. Hotels are incredible value, you can get top tier branded five stars for $100. Shopping for locally produced clothes etc is stupidly cheap. Indonesian food is amazing, there's so much more to it than nasi goreng, and you can find great Japanese, Italian, etc too; these are comparatively expensive but lunch at the Italian place in the Ritz-Carlton was under $10. The nightlife scene is wild, although you need to make local friends to really get into it. And it's reasonably safe, violent crime is basically unknown and I never had problems with pickpockets (although they do exist) or scammers. I think Jakarta's biggest problems are lack of marketing and top tier obvious attractions. Bangkok has royal palaces and temples galore plus a wild reputation for go-go bars etc, Jakarta does not, so nobody even considers it as a vacation destination. |
| |
| ▲ | duffyjp 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I was there ~20 years ago. I had made friends with some Indonesia students in college and joined them on a trip home. We were mostly in Surabaya, but did spend some time in Jakarta as well. We had a great time. The language is a hidden gem, you can learn enough to get around on the flight over which I can't say about any other SEA language. Phonetic spellings, Latin alphabet, no tonal sounds, dead easy grammar and a million loan words you already know. Jakarta is definitely for the adventurous though, and you had better have an iron stomach. | | |
| ▲ | asmosoinio an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | > ...which I can't say about any other SEA language. Phonetic spellings, Latin alphabet, no tonal sounds, dead easy grammar and a million loan words you already know. Nitpick: Sounds a lot like Tagalog (Filipino), another SEA language. | | |
| ▲ | duffyjp 23 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I've never studied it, but my understanding is that like Japanese, Tagalog has the pitched/stressed thing going on. My wife is Japanese and holy cow I can't tell the difference. Bridge or Chopstick? No idea, they sound exactly the same to my ears... I'm pretty fluent, but my pronunciation was as good as it's gonna get like 10 years ago which is a frustration. | |
| ▲ | Squealer2642 44 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Both are Austronesian languages |
| |
| ▲ | mmooss 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | How did the language end up with a Latin alphabet? | | |
| ▲ | itake 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Same as Vietnam: No dominate written language at the time of European Colonialization. | | |
| ▲ | rafram 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Sort of. Indonesian had Jawi, based on the Arabic script. People in today's Vietnam mostly wrote in Chinese AFAIK. Those methods of writing were dominant among the people who could write. But the populations were mostly illiterate, so it was easy for colonial administrators to supplant the existing writing systems with Latin as they introduced European-style schooling. | | |
| ▲ | throwaway5465 18 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Vietnamese has a writing system today. People do not write Vietnamese in Chinese. | |
| ▲ | LAC-Tech 35 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | How well do Chinese characters mesh with Vietnamese? I mean I note that there are some Chinese languages, with millions of speakers, where the largest written text they have is a bible written in a Roman script. If those are a challenge surely Vietnamese must be as well. | | |
| |
| ▲ | alephnerd 42 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | > No dominate written language at the time of European Colonialization Vietnamese used to be written using Chinese orthography just like Japanese. The French forcibly cracked down on this form of orthography, and following independence, later modernists attempting to copy Ataturk along with latent Sinophobia due to the Chinese colonial era meant this for of orthography has largely been relegated to ceremonial usage. A similar thing happened with Bahasa Indonesia, as Indonesia's founding leadership was more secular and socialist in mindset compared to neighboring Malaysia where Jawi remained prominent because of the Islamist movement's role in Malaysian independence. |
|
|
| |
| ▲ | itake 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I spent a month in Jakarta earlier this year and wasn't impressed. Traffic was terrible. I almost missed my flight due to taking a bike over a car, but then it started pouring rain and I had to huddle under a bridge while I waited for a car. Jakarta has a noise problem. The temples blasting the prayers is disruptive to sleep and inner peace. The traffic does not make anything either. Also, Indonesian food IMHO is at the bottom of SEA food culture. MY has wayyy better food (both in quality and diversity). | | |
| ▲ | phainopepla2 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Indonesian food IMHO is at the bottom of SEA food culture I take it you haven't been to Burma / Myanmar | | |
| ▲ | CitrusFruits an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Having been to both Indonesia and Myanmar, I can say confidently Burmese food is much better. The one exception is the dessert Martabak you can get in Java is to die for. | |
| ▲ | seattle_spring 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | ??? Burmese food is absolutely delicious. Burma Love in SF, Rangoon Bistro or Burma Joy in Portland. They're some of my favorite restaurants. | | |
| ▲ | phainopepla2 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Burmese food in the US is very different from the food you encounter in the country itself. | | |
| ▲ | izolate an hour ago | parent [-] | | Not only is Burmese food in Myanmar far better, but even the small, modest restaurants bring out a whole spread of complimentary small dishes (pickles, salads, crunchy snacks, all kinds of delicious little sides) before the main meal. It's just built into the dining culture there, and it's incredibly generous compared to what you see abroad. |
|
| |
| ▲ | itake 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | haha, I have not. | |
| ▲ | EB-Barrington 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Nice. I'm an ex-tour guide, and had many jovial discussions with a colleague who toured Myanmar and LOVED the food - he knew I thought it was pretty average, at best. Of course, that crazy guy didn't really like Thai food... |
| |
| ▲ | darkwater 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Also, Indonesian food IMHO is at the bottom of SEA food culture. MY has wayyy better food (both in quality and diversity). Agreed! Malaysia is really underrated, or at least it was by me. Now it's one of my favorite spots in the world, food is great (not as Thai's but comes close), wonderful sea, wonderful jungle, Kuala Lumpur is becoming a really nice city and CoL is value for money. | | |
| ▲ | itake 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | The teh tarik tea (served in a glass mug! paper cups don't count) is my favorite drink right now. Also Malaysian Indian food is one of my favorite foods (especially the sweet roti). |
| |
| ▲ | nrhrjrjrjtntbt 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Rain, noise, traffic... welcome to SEA | | |
| |
| ▲ | mandeepj 24 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > you need to make local friends to really get into it Well, that might sound like an impossible task!! So, just sign up for Experiences from any of the leading travel portals. They’d get you into any of the local party scenes. | |
| ▲ | jasonthorsness 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | What is the air quality like to actually breathe in your experience? I have noticed Jakarta on lists of poor AQI and it doesn't look great [1] but I think the AQI number is kind of an abstraction. [1] https://www.aqi.in/us/dashboard/indonesia/jakarta/jakarta/hi... | | |
| ▲ | itake 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Air quality is terrible. AQI does not lie. It's even worse when you're sitting on the back of a motorbike 6ft away from 10 other gas powered bikes. There is slow adoption of electric vehicles, but still very low adoption rate (like less than 10% of motorbikes). |
| |
| ▲ | rockskon 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Shame their water is poison. | | | |
| ▲ | andyjohnson0 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Thanks for posting this. Really interesting perspectives Whats the food like for vegetarians/ vegans? | | |
| ▲ | zppln an hour ago | parent [-] | | Tempeh is an Indonesian staple and from what I understand pretty popular with vegans. |
| |
| ▲ | markus_zhang 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Thanks for sharing. I’m wondering whether they have a large retro computing market? | |
| ▲ | bogota69 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Bangkok is not what you described. Bangkok is a great city, not too polluted, there are not a lot of poor people. Bangkok is like Manila. I spent a lot of time working is South East Asia. Jakarta is the worst city, yes it is big but very filthy like New Delhi or India in general. Second filthiest is Malaysia. The cleanest city is without a doubt Singapore. | | |
| ▲ | itake 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > not too polluted Are we talking about the same Bangkok? I'm talking about the Bangkok in Thailand where they literally shut down the schools due to air pollution being so bad [0]. What Bangkok are you referring to? Malaysia is wayyy cleaner than Indonesia, both in air quality and trash on the ground. [0] - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jan/24/bangkok-pollut... | | |
| ▲ | projectazorian an hour ago | parent [-] | | Bangkok has seasonal haze incidents that can get bad enough to close schools etc. Those are a scourge across all of SEA and are generally caused by slash-and-burn agriculture practices. It's much different from having bad AQI year-round. I'd hardly say Bangkok is a clean air capital, but it's next to the ocean with no significant mountains nearby so usually pollution gets blown out to sea. |
| |
| ▲ | darrenf an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > I spent a lot of time working is South East Asia. Jakarta is the worst city, yes it is big but very filthy like New Delhi or India in general. Second filthiest is Malaysia. Malaysia's a pretty decent size country, not a city. Can't say as I'd have referred to KL as filthy on any of my visits (admittedly only 3 times over the past 12 years). Kuching wasn't filthy either. | |
| ▲ | darkwater 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | N=1 but my experience with Philippines and Malaysia is exactly the opposite. | |
| ▲ | moneywoes 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | what is the cheapest for a nomad | | |
| ▲ | itake 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Vietnam. source: I've been to almost every country in SEA at least 3x. (Brunei was once, never went to Timor-Leste). Check the forex changes and rent prices if you don't believe me. Harder to factor in is visa costs. Vietnam, you need to leave every 90 days. So you need to buy a $25usd visa + flights/buses + hotels for 3-5 days while you get your next visa. Thailand, you only need to leave every 6mo on the DTV. |
| |
| ▲ | ignoramous 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > very filthy like New Delhi Think you mean Delhi NCR? New Delhi is pretty small, and mostly houses political and social elite. |
|
|
|
| ▲ | skx001 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Alternative Link: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacific/jakarta-world-s-most-p... Key Facts:
Number of megacities, urban areas with 10 million or more inhabitants has quadrupled from 8 in 1975 to 33 in 2025. Jakarta is now the world’s most populous city, with nearly 42 million residents. The current population of Indonesia is 286 million. In 2019, Indonesia said it will be moving its capital to Nusantara, a new city which is under construction. |
| |
| ▲ | awongh 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | To add some more detail regarding the new capital, Jakarta has some structural governance problems in the sense that it's very hard to improve infrastructure improve / stop the sinking of the city (mostly caused from over reliance on ground water pumping and permitting corruption / bad river management). Those problems might never be solved. And separate of it's economic power it remains a center of power where the city mayor/governor always becomes a major national political figure. Indonesia is actually a plurality of distinct island cultures, but with Jakarta, Java and Javanese culture sits at the top of the national political hierarchy. (Not to mention a sort of internal Javanese colonialism similar to the USSR). The new capital could be part of dismantling some of the legacy internal Javanese power structures. (To add a further detail re. Java vs. Indonesia, because of the mercator projection it's hard to see how big Indonesia is. It would stretch from Maine, past California almost to Anchorage). | | |
| ▲ | vkou 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | New capitals also help prevent revolutions and uprisings. It's a lot easier to have a government that's insulated from the unrest of the masses, when everyone in its capital is loyal to it. |
| |
| ▲ | ghaff 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I also imagine a lot of people who are admiring these megacities have never been to one. Jakarta has oceans of scooters and, when I was there to visit some customers with our country manager, she had a driver. With some exceptions like Singapore, SE Asian cities are horrible to get around. | | |
| ▲ | ecshafer 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Other than Singapore. I am not sure why SE Asian cities aren't going as all in on mass transit like China. Jakarta has a single subway line for 42 million people. They have some light rail line and buses. If you compare this with Tokyo, Shanghai, Beijing its really night and day. | | |
| ▲ | lurk2 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The usual patterns that crop up are: 1) Lack of institutional knowledge. No one even knows how to get started and bringing in foreign expertise may be prohibitively expensive. 2) Economics don’t pencil out even in higher income countries compared to BRT systems, especially because high density and heavy traffic means the lines usually have to be grade-separated which adds additional costs compared to an at-grade system. 3) Corruption makes development impossible. No well-established processes for expropriation exist, or the country is given over to clientelism such that landlords won’t give up what they own and hamper the development process via political connections. BRT is usually the most effective solution in places where grade-separated rail is not yet viable as it allows a right-of-way network to be established that can later be upgraded to rail. This doesn’t solve problem 3, which requires a comparatively authoritarian approach to overcome the incentive problems at play; this is why the Chinese have generally excelled in the space over the last 20 years. | | |
| ▲ | snicky 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | For anyone interested in the issues with Indonesian economy, politics and development may I suggest a great book: Indonesia, Etc. by Elizabeth Pisani. | |
| ▲ | ghaff 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Even in the US, a lot of right-of-ways were taken by the government for rail and, later, highways (which intersected with earlier railroads in many cases) before it would have been as difficult a process as it would be today. Not a political comment so much as an observation that it's harder to just take private land today. |
| |
| ▲ | seanmcdirmid 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The water table surely has something to do with it, but they could put much of it above ground like Bangkok does (erm, Bangkok should be listed as doing ok, even if they aren't doing as well as Singapore). China built A LOT in the last 15 years. Beijing before 2008 had line 1, 2, a couple of suburban lines (13 and another one out east), and that was it. I don't think any other country has ever built infrastructure so quickly, so it isn't really fair to compare them to China. | |
| ▲ | projectazorian 39 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Bangkok has built a lot of transit in the past decade, 6 lines on top of an already-substantial existing network. Still plenty of projects under construction as well. This alone puts it way ahead of Jakarta in terms of quality of life IMO. | |
| ▲ | filloooo 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Democratic governments are weak on deficit spending, especially poor ones, the debt from their tiny stretch of high speed rail almost became a scandal. | |
| ▲ | ghaff 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Probably a combination of overall wealth and government policies/stability/priorities. I'd probably add Hong Kong to the list of cities with pretty good public transit but, overall, it's pretty bad in that area of the world relative to cities that you'd generally consider to be "good." | |
| ▲ | nerdralph 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | KL has subways. Even better is the KL city bus network which is free, air conditioned, and has free wifi. Despite Malaysia being a nominally muslim state, I found it multicultural and tolerant. If it wasn't for the heat and humidity, I'd consider it a great place to retire. | | | |
| ▲ | alephnerd 38 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | > I am not sure why SE Asian cities aren't going as all in on mass transit like China Eminent domain and mass demolitions were very common in 1990s-2010s China, and to a degree that I have not seen in other authoritarian and nominally communist states like Vietnam or even Laos, let alone other less authoritarian states. Entire neighborhoods, villages, and towns were razed to build the urban areas that make up China today. Beijing [0][1], Shanghai [2][3], and other cities across China [4] all saw massive urban demolitions until the Central Government banned them in 2021 during the Evergrande crisis [5] due to limited utility and rising urban discontent. Back in the day, it was somewhat common to see news about some random Jie commiting a terrorist act in retaliation for being evicted from their homes [6][7] due to this urban demolition program, and partially helped Xi consolidate power as most officials affiliated with these programs were deeply corrupt, and were often felled during the anti-corruption purges (ironically, Xi oversaw similar initiatives in Zhejiang in the 2000s). Most other governments don't see the utility of implementing a similar style of program. [0] - https://www.smartcitiesdive.com/ex/sustainablecitiescollecti... [1] - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/jun/06/sport.china [2] - https://web.archive.org/web/20130324195541/http://www.unhabi... [3] - https://archive.nytimes.com/sinosphere.blogs.nytimes.com/201... [4] - https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1002775 [5] - https://english.www.gov.cn/statecouncil/ministries/202108/31... [6] - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-18018827.amp [7] - https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna34450213 | | |
| ▲ | LAC-Tech 30 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Even in democratic Taiwan they have this mindset to an extent - private land must not stand in the way of infrastructure. | | |
| ▲ | alephnerd 29 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Taiwan's mass urban demolition spree happened towards the tail end of authoritarian rule, and did in fact play a role in garnering mass support for the democracy movement. After democracy, Taiwan shifted towards trying to preserve traditional neighborhoods or working to normalize unofficial neighborhoods and slums - basically adopting a bottom up instead of top down approach [0] [0] - https://www.taiwan-panorama.com/en/Articles/Details?Guid=5fc... |
|
|
| |
| ▲ | geodel 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Hehe. Great point. I have lived and worked in 2 Delhi and Mumbai in India. With such terrible living condition, traffic, pollution and so on it sucked the soul out of me. At least I found it so bad in Mumbai that many a times while leaving from work to hostel, I would literally cry on train platform with massive crowd pushing and shoving from all directions while trying to get into bursting at seams trains. And this all is 20 years back. During this time thing have gone worse many times over. |
| |
| ▲ | Sharlin 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > In 2019, Indonesia said it will be moving its capital to Nusantara, a new city which is under construction. Because Jakarta is literally sinking into the ocean. It also has a terrible flood problem which is only going to get worse. Doesn’t bode well for the population. |
|
|
| ▲ | superconduct123 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I'm always surprised how big the population of Indonesia is yet it seems culturally underrepresented in the world compared to a lot of smaller countries Almost 300 million people but it rarely comes up in the news or pop media |
| |
| ▲ | lurk2 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | They don’t have a huge culture industry yet (or at least, not one that appeals to English-speaking audiences), but they’ve become a lot more prominent on the internet in the last 5 years due to better infrastructure and integration into various English speaking social networks (via both social media and people travelling in and out of Indonesia). It’s a Muslim majority country and very conservative, so a lot of the themes you’d find in American film, music, and literature wouldn’t make much sense there, and the media that has commercial potential outside of Indonesia is generally coming from wealthy households that don’t have much to do with how the average Indonesian really lives (Nicole Zefanya being the example that comes to mind). Indonesians (at least the ones who speak English) are quite similar to Latinos in that they have a desire to be accepted into the English-speaking world not only personally but culturally. This can manifest in attempts to whitewash oneself to fit in, adopting whatever seems to be popular on English-speaking social media, leading to comparatively old trends propagating in these countries. You saw the same thing with the Chinese and the Koreans back in the 2000s and both developed their own internationally-competitive culture industries, but those were both secular countries already well-integrated into the international system. I wouldn’t expect to see anything quite like that in Indonesia until at least 2030, when more of the digital natives come of age. | | |
| ▲ | Apocryphon 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Feels like in the West the only Indonesian movie that got popular is The Raid, which had a Welsh director anyway. And, uh, The Act of Killing which was also made by a Brit. |
| |
| ▲ | awongh 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I always thought it was interesting that, I guess due to Arab racism, it's also not very represented in the community of Islam. Like, Indonesia (and together with Malaysia) makes up a really significant portion of all muslims. As an outsider it still seems like there isn't much cultural overlap- which seems like, even if Indonesian culture wouldn't reach Europe or the USA, at least it would reach to the middle east / north africa because of the the religious link. I could have drawn some parallels between Catholics and South America, but there's already two Popes that have Latin American roots. | |
| ▲ | elgenie 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | They're #4 by population, and the world's most populous Muslim country, but are also only a quarter century removed from a corrupt authoritarian regime. They have very little in the way of exported cultural products ("The Raid" films?), are much worse in sports than would be expected based on population, spend relatively little on their military and don't do much in the way of regional power projection, and are growing economically but not remarkably, so there just aren't that many avenues for them to make international news. | |
| ▲ | Squealer2642 33 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I think it's just because there aren't large immigrant communities in Western countries besides Australia and the Netherlands. | |
| ▲ | numpad0 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yeah and... articles like these are reminders that cultural representation as a concept in general is kind of broken. There's no website which topic distribution follows actual distribution of population of the world[1]. 1: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:World_population_per... | |
| ▲ | Froztnova 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I also did a double take when I learned that they were Muslim-majority too. It flies in the face of a lot of assumptions. | | |
| ▲ | cdmckay 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Which assumptions are those? | | |
| ▲ | Froztnova 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Mostly just that it's easy for an American (or at least, myself circa several years ago) to assume that the overwhelmingly vast majority of Muslims live in middle eastern countries, and when I first learned that Indonesia was the world's largest Muslim majority country it proved that mental heuristic to be entirely inaccurate. I suppose it shouldn't be too surprising though, I mean Christianity sure as hell got around too. | | |
| ▲ | flopsamjetsam 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Mostly just that it's easy for an American (or at least, myself circa several years ago) to assume that the overwhelmingly vast majority of Muslims live in middle eastern countries, and when I first learned that Indonesia was the world's largest Muslim majority country it proved that mental heuristic to be entirely inaccurate. I live in Australia, and when I was growing up I thought the same, even though Indonesia are a very close neighbour of ours. Indonesia is featured quite a bit in our local news these days, and that together with lots of Aussie tourists in Indonesia, plus lots of Indonesian students studying here, has made us a little more knowledgeable about our neighbours. | | |
| ▲ | bouncycastle an hour ago | parent [-] | | Also, the Indonesia that most Australians only ever visit is Bali, which is mostly Hindu. |
| |
| ▲ | elgenie an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The top five countries in the world by Muslim population are not in the Middle East/North Africa region: Indonesia, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Nigeria. | |
| ▲ | rafram 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Only 20% of the Muslims in the world live in the Middle East. | |
| ▲ | mmooss 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | India (also not Middle Eastern) has the largest population of Muslim people, but it is not 'majority Muslim'. | |
| ▲ | deepspace an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | That's so weird. What do they teach in American schools? Apparently not even basic geography? The fact that Indonesia was Muslim is something I learned very early on - certainly before high school. | |
| ▲ | aruggirello 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It seems things are improving for Christians in Indonesia in 2025 - or is the data missing? https://www.opendoors.org/en-US/persecution/countries/ | |
| ▲ | lawlessone 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yeah if i only went by TV news i'd come to the same general conclusion.
And if i narrowed it down to just Fox i'd probably think it was the UK. |
| |
| ▲ | lordnacho 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Ask someone in the West what the largest muslim country is. |
| |
| ▲ | aprilthird2021 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | You must not have known about Malaysia then either? | | |
| ▲ | Froztnova 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Correct, it was around the time I learned how big Islam was in certain parts of Southeast Asia in general. It's just massively under-represented in news and popular culture and my historical/geographic education never really went into much detail on Asia. |
| |
| ▲ | throwaway290 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Why? It's a big religion in the world and I heard it grows at 30% per year | | |
| ▲ | rar00 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | typo? Rounding it up to 2 billion, 30% means 600 million per year | |
| ▲ | _DeadFred_ 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | How much of that is just because people aren't allowed to leave the religion though? My whole family would be considered Catholic if we still had those sorts of old thinking rules that Islam still has. Instead we have lots of people becoming Catholic and lots leaving balancing out. |
|
|
|
|
| ▲ | tim333 31 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| For Europeans wanting a megacity experience within weekend jaunt range, Cairo can be kind of a mad experience, with things like the Garbage City https://www.adventuresnsunsets.com/cairo-garbage-city/ and cave church https://www.egypttoursportal.com/en-gb/blog/egypt-attraction... plus the usual pyramids etc. Very cheap Ubers like $8/hr. |
| |
|
| ▲ | mmooss 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Here's a better link, though maybe it's too late: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-11-25/jakarta-overtakes-tok... It was posted to HN recently (not by me): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46042447 |
|
| ▲ | pat_erichsen 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| If anyone is looking for a good movie to get a sense of what Jakarta is like, highly recommend "The Year of Living Dangerously" with Mel Gibson/Sigourney Weaver https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086617/ |
| |
| ▲ | ghaff 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Can't speak for the accuracy at the time but great film! |
|
|
| ▲ | netsharc 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Article is a paywalled summary of the UN press release:
https://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/blog/2025/11/press... And the full report as PDF: https://www.un.org/development/desa/pd/sites/www.un.org.deve... |
|
| ▲ | metalman 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Canada has less people, even with a 10% increase in the last 4 years through imigration, some of which is from Indonesea presumably including a significant number from Jakarta, where the civil infrastructure must be epic |
| |
| ▲ | skx001 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The West just refuses to build anything. Whereas in Asia its not uncommon to build entire cites from scratch. | | |
| ▲ | parpfish 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I don't even know what it would it even look like to "build a city" from scratch in the US. who does the building and puts together the central plan? does the government build a bunch of public housing and a publicly owned commercial district? i guess they kind of have experience doing this with military bases, but at some point you need to encourage a bunch of private development and ownership, right? or would the government just incentivize private developers to start building in the middle of nowhere and hope that a city arises as an emergent phenomenon? that approach seems like it would be rife with abuse and waste. seems like this would be a lot easier to do with an authoritarian regime that could just decree "we're building a city here. the following industries will move their headquarters" | | |
| ▲ | toenail 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Starting a city is easy, growing it into a real city is the hard part. If you look at the fastest growing cities of the last decades, they had economic freedom or booming industries, nothing that requires authoritarianism. | |
| ▲ | abdullahkhalids 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It's not particularly difficult to start a new city. The government simply asks large companies to open offices/factories in the new city in exchange for tax breaks/subsidies. Or give funding to a university to open a satellite campus. All you need is a promise for like 20k people to initially move. Then the government builds roads and utility networks. Private developers will also build housing if given the right financial incentive. The 20k people will automatically lead to the same number moving in due to cheap housing, or for creating every day businesses, hospitals, schools etc. Within a couple of years you can setup up a feedback loop where the population is growing at 5-10% every year. There is no need to force anyone to do anything. Financial incentives are enough. | |
| ▲ | mikepurvis 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The western approach would almost certainly be a public-private partnership; we do that with all meaningful infra projects, where multiple industry consortia put together proposals and then one is selected to move forward. For example, for the ION Light Rail in Waterloo Region (~$1B), the winning consortium was composed of engineering and construction firms/consultants, a operations company that would run the system, plus a financier: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GrandLinq That said, for a project the scale of building a city, I can imagine it might actually be faster and more efficient for the government to just plan and build everything itself and then sell it off to private entities later. | |
| ▲ | steego 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Honestly, if you build transit, developers will build. I wouldn't call it "building a city", but if you look at Northern Virginia today, you'll find that vertical districts are popping up along the Silver Line metro that now extends past Dulles airport. At the end of the metro, there is literally a "town center" residential area on one side with buildings around 5 stories tall. On the other side of the tracks is literally fields, but the roads have been laid out like Sim City with empty plots and developers are now beginning to construct buildings starting from the outside perimeter first, working their way toward the metro station. Throughout the DC suburbs, you will find densely populated areas with relatively tall vertical buildings (15-20 stories) that simply were not there 20 years ago. Reston is a good example. I've watched 4-6 buildings (over 10 stories) get built in Reston alone. They mostly started when the the metro line was finished. | | |
| ▲ | botanrice 3 minutes ago | parent [-] | | tysons is a good example as well. I always think the development of the DC metro is some of the most impressive in the sense of 'cities' popping up along the train lines. I haven't travelled the entire country but I've never seen anything quite like Silver Spring, Bethesda, or as you say, Reston. Super interesting. |
|
| |
| ▲ | Sohcahtoa82 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Why spend billions building when you can just keep raising rents on existing infrastructure? | |
| ▲ | bryanlarsen 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Canada has been building housing at a much higher rate than the US in the last 2 decades. Not enough, but more. | | |
| ▲ | daedrdev 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | They have been underbuilding compared to their population trends as we see their prices continue to skyrocket | | | |
| ▲ | jeffbee 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Hrmm. What data source can I see to demonstrate this? I looked at a chart I have referenced before that shows nationwide USA housing starts over the last 20 years ranging from 2 to 8 per 1000 people. Then I searched for one for Canada and found one suggesting 1-2 per 1000 since 2005. And, evidently, the situation in Canada as developed/deteriorated to the extent there's a whole subreddit for the canadian housing crisis? | | |
| ▲ | bryanlarsen 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Looks to be averaging around 250,000 per year over the last decade. That'd be over 12 per 1000. https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/housing-starts | | |
| ▲ | jeffbee 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yes so it looks like the Reddit people are committing major chart-crimes, showing quarterly data as such, rather than annualized rates, and not mentioning it. It looks like this is a source of truth: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=341001... | | |
| ▲ | mh- 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | I have watched reddit become useless for any kind of nuanced debate over the last 5 years. It's rather sad to me, because once upon a time I learned a lot about others views - especially ones I disagree with. Even HN is much less welcoming of the "I think I agree with you, but walk me through your thinking" replies than it used to be. I presume this is reflective of a few broader societal trends, and it's.. not good. |
|
|
|
| |
| ▲ | bbarnett 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yes, it's easy to build entire cities from scratch in a centrally managed society, such as a dictatorship or communist nations. It's also easy to have cities grow fast, if you're primarily a rural/agrarian nation, and suddenly have a transition to become urban. This was (for example) Canada in the 1900s. Mostly rural, yet now it's mostly urban. Canada saw fast growth of cities back then. It's maintaining large cities once the fast growth is over, that is a different story. How will, for example, China look in 50+ years? 100+ years? When all its newly built mega-city projects are crumbling. | | |
| |
| ▲ | Squealer2642 30 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | The civil infrastructure in Jakarta is horrible, especially compared to other Asian cities. |
|
|
| ▲ | refurb 35 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I always find discussion of the world biggest city a bit of a pointless exercise considering it’s entirely dependent on how administrative lines are drawn. Highly fragmented metro areas are regarded as smaller than consolidated metro areas, whereas they might be the same size overall. |
|
| ▲ | umanwizard an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| How is "city" defined, for the purposes of this metric? Is it the administrative boundaries of Jakarta according to Indonesian law? The catchment area where a large fraction of people commute to the city center? Something else? |
| |
| ▲ | asmosoinio an hour ago | parent [-] | | I was wondering the same. I guess it comes from this "UN figure": > The UN figures include a mixture of city proper, metropolitan area, and urban area. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_cities I haven't looked into the details of that definition. But there is a somewhat standard definition to "metropolitan area" derived from something like "area where there is at least X per square km" So it's not related a somewhat random definition of a "city" and its borders. | | |
| ▲ | asmosoinio an hour ago | parent [-] | | If you find a better link for the methodology please let me know. But simplified it's maybe exactly this from the UN reports glossary: > Cities: According to the Degree of Urbanization methodology, contiguous geographic areas with a high population density (at least 1,500 people per km2) and a total population of at least 50,000 inhabitants. https://www.un.org/development/desa/pd/sites/www.un.org.deve... |
|
|
|
| ▲ | nephihaha 23 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Behind a paywall. |
|
| ▲ | doener 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Previous submission: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46038863 |
| |