| ▲ | ryandrake 10 hours ago |
| Cook's been great for massively scaling Apple (and its stock price) up, but the art, vision, and soul of the company is gone. It's just a stock price maximizing lawnmower now, just like every other corporate stock price maximizing lawnmower. If that's what shareholders want, fine, I guess. But I'd be bored just manufacturing the same boring rectangles every year. I think Steve would have been, too. |
|
| ▲ | LarsDu88 an hour ago | parent | next [-] |
| They shipped AirPods and the Apple Watch during his tenure. And the ahem, Vision Pro. The M-series chips are probably the biggest win for Apple in the past 15 years. There hasn't been lack of category killers during his stint. If anything they are running out of places on the human body where you can stick a small computer. Surely the next CEO will hopefully not ruin the company and brand by cramming ads into everything. |
|
| ▲ | jaredklewis 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Not as a shareholder, but as a customer and user I’m very ok if they just focus on making those rectangles. Makes no difference to me if Apple does the new “innovative” products or if some other company does it. But if Apple starts getting “visions” and those interfere with the iOS and macOS experience that I have and like now, I’ll be annoyed. I like my MacBook, AirPods, and iPhone how they are now. If they don’t screw these up, great. Anything else is gravy. I feel your comment subtly implies that if Apple doesn’t start making a self driving car or LLM Siri or robot dog walker or whatever then it’s “boring,” but I strongly feel there is (for all intents and purposes) limitless engineering that could go into refining and gradually expanding their existing ecosystem of products and these efforts would be quite interesting in their own right. During Cook’s time at the helm, Apple has made major product improvements that greatly improved their value to me including AFS, arm laptop processors, Secure Enclave, camera improvements, and many others. |
| |
| ▲ | zaidf an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | No. I don’t want Apple to make LLM Siri. I do wish they would become the company unlocking creativity instead of shackling it. I will give you one specific example: iOS has extreme limitations on what it allows app developers to display on the Lock Screen. The area each app gets is limited. What gets displayed and how is very limited. How often the data gets displayed is limited. This might sound like nitpick. But I guarantee you that if they removed many of these limitations, it will reduce total screen time: because many things that make people unlock their phone can be done from the Lock Screen…if only Apple leadership would allow and incentivize their product and engineering teams. Instead, they want people to force unlocking of the screen to do actual productive tasks because the next thing people instinctively do is…doom scroll. And doom scrolling is profitable for Apple. It is 2025. I have to unlock and open Google Maps to reliably tell when the next train will arrive. Why? I’ve tried many apps that attempt to fix this. They are all severely limited by the iOS restrictions. Why? What are they optimizing for? The Camera Roll app is a clusterfuck. Apple Maps is considering introducing ads. iOS makes little attempt to tell you about trials: I download an app, I enable the trial, I conclude within minutes this app is not it. Now to cancel, I have to make 5+ taps. Often, I forget until I get the receipt from Apple. You’re telling me no PM at Apple has proposed mechanisms like a reminder or popup a day before my trial ends asking if I want to cancel or keep the subscription? Apple knows after all that I have barely used this app! I can keep going. Like OP said, it is pretty obvious the focus is on milking the cow. This is unfortunate because Apple’s positioning was to do the right thing for the user who paid a premium for the device. They are increasingly and consistently doing things that makes the CFO happy at the expense of its user base. | |
| ▲ | m463 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | "vision" would be to do things for the customer - actually allow privacy, even from apple itself. Like turn off telemetry, not just anonymize it. and opt-in, not opt-out. - install apps without asking permission - allow access to your data, for example to export your imessages Just in general be respectful and polite | | |
| ▲ | jaredklewis an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Sure fine by me, but the comment I am responding to seems to be longing for a new Jobs like figure that will prioritize “innovation” to take over. I don’t think the GP is talking about an iMessage export feature. We have no reason to believe Jobs himself would care about any of the points you have listed (all of which seem great to me). For me, I’ve been fine with bean-counter Cook. MacBooks and iPhones are not perfect, but I strongly prefer them to the competition. | |
| ▲ | astrange 26 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Telemetry is opt-in. It asks you during setup. | | |
| ▲ | walthamstow 16 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Isn't the checkbox already ticked though? I'd say that's opt-out. The user must take direct action to avoid telemetry. |
|
| |
| ▲ | lamontcg 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > But if Apple starts getting “visions” [...] I fear it is going to start getting visions of monetization and injecting advertisement and tracking into everything. I don't see where the growth is coming from unless they start trying to squeeze what they've got entirely dry. | |
| ▲ | wilg 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The problem is Apple’s software quality is the worst it’s ever been while the hardware is the best it’s ever been. | | |
| ▲ | 01100011 an hour ago | parent [-] | | I've been talking about switching to iOS from Android for over a decade. When Google finally pissed me off enough to get serious last year I just happened to buy my mom an ipad and perform the setup. Bad experience. Then helping my wife with her iphone cemented it: no way. I thought apple would be perfectly polished albeit a little restricted vs android but it was just as janky except in different ways. |
| |
| ▲ | yieldcrv 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | whew that visions is a triple entedre, way to go |
|
|
| ▲ | jwr 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Most importantly, it seems Cook doesn't love computers and doesn't use many (most?) of Apple products. It shows. Especially with Mac OS. |
| |
| ▲ | thordenmark 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | MacOs and iOs are going off the rails. It is clear the CEO is not providing a vision, not guiding the direction, and not assuring the quality of those products. While not as bad as Windows, which has way too many chefs in the kitchen, it is getting there. | |
| ▲ | FabHK 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Sorry, are you suggesting that Cook doesn't use a computer in his day-to-day work, or has a Windows PC or Linux box in his office? Somehow I doubt that. (It's "macOS", BTW.) | | |
| ▲ | dalant979 an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Cook is on record in 2012 as using an iPad for 80% of his work, which mostly involves communication activities such as making decisions, responding to emails, and viewing documents. With how Apple has since then differentiated iPadOS and released accessories to make the iPad more laptop like, I'd guess that percentage has only increased. | | |
| ▲ | vasco 10 minutes ago | parent [-] | | The iPad was launched in 2010 and seen as a device to play around with - a big ipod. Two years later they were in the midst of the big push for using iPads for business, in hospitals, in cafes to replace PoS, in factories, etc. So you say the CEO of Apple uses it for work, if it's good enough for him it's good enough for you. I highly doubt he doesn't use an actual computer. |
| |
| ▲ | agumonkey 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I read it as "macOS is so full of issues that there's no way the CEO uses computers at all or he would have done something about it" |
| |
| ▲ | blackqueeriroh 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Cook reportedly uses all of Apple’s products, including the Mac: https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/22/24276142/tim-cook-wsj-in... | |
| ▲ | zaphirplane 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Somehow I doubt he has is emails printed out and response by dictations ;) | |
| ▲ | Razengan 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Does any CEO actually use their own company's products? The richest and most "powerful" people still have meat-based assistants do all their shit: Take their notes, check their calendars, make their appointments, toast their bread.. And it shows: This is how you get features like "Edge Light" and an Invites app before fixing basic functionality that the peasants rely upon. Like how we get the weird iOS Journal app even though Notes could have done all that if they had improved it a bit. Steve Jobs was probably one of the few people in charge who actually used his company's own products. You need someone who's annoyed with the status quo enough to make a company to solve it, not just someone elected by a board. | | |
| ▲ | freediver 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Hm I live and breathe our product portfolio. That is the entire reason for me waking up for work every day. I do consider myself a 'product' CEO though and passion for great products is what keeps me in tech. | | | |
| ▲ | suresk an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The opposite problem can happen- the CEO uses the product all the time and becomes blind to problems. “It has always worked that way”, or “who would want to do that!?”” are much more common than pure apathy. | | | |
| ▲ | lacy_tinpot 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | That's literally not true though??? I don't know how you even come to that kind of conclusion at all actually. | | |
| ▲ | Razengan 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | > I don't know how you even come to that kind of conclusion at all actually. Because most products, including iOS/macOS now, have glaring annoyances or shortcomings that have gone unfixed for a long time. If Tim Cook or even Craig Federighi etc. actually used iOS/macOS in their day to day lives, they would have run into those issues sooner or later and they'd be fixed in a day. (Hyperbole is a thing but the point stands) | | |
| ▲ | lacy_tinpot 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Does any CEO Plenty of CEOs do. The comment you replied to already questioned Tim Cook's usage of Apple products. Most Apple executives are probably using a Mac. Most engineers at Apple probably code on a Mac. Most engineers in the Bay already use Macs and have been using them for many years. | |
| ▲ | pear01 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Such a silly comment. Is your theory that everyone with any decision making authority at Apple doesn't actually use the product? Even when it comes to "glaring annoyances or shortcomings"? So odd of you to frame this as some sort of personal outrage. Like I'm so annoyed by this "glaring issue" on my device clearly the people working on this don't even use it or "it would be fixed in a day". Lol. Maybe people who actually have to get things done at a trillion dollar company don't have the same constraints as you, or relatedly, the luxury to obsess over your so-called glaring issues. |
|
| |
| ▲ | ivraatiems 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Does any CEO actually use their own company's products? ...yes? Quite often? I'm all for ragging on CEOs but this seems misguided. The CEO has been a user of the core product at every company I've ever worked for. If you think Tim Cook is pulling a Samsung Galaxy out of his pocket, I don't know what to tell you. | | |
| ▲ | curtisblaine 24 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | > If you think Tim Cook is pulling a Samsung Galaxy out of his pocket, I don't know what to tell you. He should. He should literally be using competitors for real work, at least half of the time, deep in their ecosystem, to understand where Apple products need to improve. | |
| ▲ | wormius 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | What's funny is I was doing online shopping from a national chain and got so frustrated by the UX that I gave up. I thought : If only the CEO would dogfood this instead of farming it out to their lackeys/gofers/personal assistants, etc... Instead these poor people deal with stuff like that (if they're doing online shit). "Privatize the profit, socialize the (pain in the ass enshittification, or whatever)." | | |
| ▲ | pear01 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Is this some parody of bad social critique? You know not every trope applies in all cases, right? A greedy CEO not using his own product doesn't readily apply the higher in the value chain you get. You replied to a comment mentioning how it's obviously silly to think Tim Cook uses a Samsung Galaxy. Yet it seems like maybe you missed the point... or do you also think decision makers at Apple are using Samsung Galaxy or Google Pixel phones? Or Windows surfaces or Dell laptops instead of MacBooks? Or maybe there is some designer bespoke OS or Ferrari level brand equivalent you are privy to that I'm missing? Or is your theory that he is so wealthy his use of personal butlers and subordinates ensures he never does any computing himself? He never sends a text or gets a personal phone call, or if he does some man-servant picks it up so he doesn't have to deal with the iOS interface that has been clearly designed for "poor people"? Then the ending comment that again can't seem to distinguish a generalized slogan re a broad social grievance with a specific claim or discussion. And the sense of personal victimization. Because something is annoying you, well clearly you are being taken advantage of. You didn't even contribute anything pertinent to the discussion except to complain about a wholly unrelated UX experience, only to limply tie it together by doing nothing more than conclude that obviously both CEOs are richer than you are. |
|
| |
| ▲ | conradfr an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Elon Musk uses X every other minutes and everybody wants him to stop. |
|
|
|
| ▲ | caycep 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| it's saying a lot about the industry in that even given the above, Apple still has way more art/vision/soul than any other tech company out there... |
| |
| ▲ | grishka 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | In a company founded by a visionary, it takes a surprisingly long time to squander all the internal culture after that person's departure. I would assume the larger the company was at that moment, the longer it takes. | |
| ▲ | Fricken 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | We can't keep ignoring those Chinese tech companies. The ones that have pivoted into EVs, autonomous vehicles, and humanoid robotics, amongst other things. |
|
|
| ▲ | verelo 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| You forget, the camera gets better every year! I've had an iphone for 15 years. I mean, it's fine...i just wish there was incentive for durability and sustainability v's replace it every 12-24 months. I guess sustainability concerns at Apple ends at ensuring their stock price is sustainable. |
| |
| ▲ | harshalizee 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | What do you do with your phones that it doesn't last more than 24 months?
I've had only two iPhones for almost 11 years. An iphone 6s and currently an iPhone 13 mini there entire time.
They're solidly reliable | | |
| ▲ | adastra22 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | 24 months is on the low end. But I definitely feel the need to replace every 3-ish years, solely for the camera. I have kids and I want better photos. | | |
| ▲ | wilg 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | “feeling the need to replace it because a better one is available” is not a product reliability or longevity issue! |
| |
| ▲ | Spooky23 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The camera iterates significantly every other year. My kid plays baseball, from little league to now high school ball. The pictures I can take on my iPhone are incredible. (I’d do the same thing with a Pixel or Samsung if I was a Android person) My work phones are typically on a 4-5 year cycle. I’m currently carrying a 12 or 13 pro. I would have upgraded early for USB-C with that phone, but MagSafe is good enough. | |
| ▲ | skeeter2020 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >> What do you do with your phones that it doesn't last more than 24 months? Not an Apple product user, but my wife and kids are, and... install the OS upgrade? That pretty much bricked 2 of our phones and a friend's as well. | | |
| ▲ | rogerrogerr 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | “Pretty much bricked” sounds a lot like “didn’t brick” | | |
| ▲ | rurp 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I think a more charitable reading is that OS upgrades left their devices barely usable to the point of having to be replaced. I'm not a big Apple person so don't have personal experience but have heard similar stories from multiple other people, that OS upgrades wrecked the old devices they were still using. |
|
| |
| ▲ | npsomaratna 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Same here. Had a 7 for years. Upgraded to a 13. So far not felt the need to upgrade. I compare this to when I had an 3G and the 4 came out. The gap between the two was so huge that I upgraded quickly. Reminded me of how quickly PCs evolved in the 90s. | | |
| ▲ | reactordev 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | The difference was “hang on let me pull over” to “just do it live!”. With 4G, you could actually do something quickly. |
| |
| ▲ | gcanyon 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Similar -- I'm currently nursing a 13 mini (the lightning port barely works, so I'm on magsafe). and before that I had an iPhone XS I think -- that one I managed to break the screen (the only time I've ever done that, I dropped it in a metal elevator). I replaced the screen but it was never the same. So I didn't go 11 years on two models, more like 7 years or so. But I'm definitely not on the two-years-and-upgrade plan. | | |
| ▲ | wlesieutre 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | I had a 12 mini for 5 years, it was a really lucky year to buy one because of MagSafe. The lightning ports just don’t hold up as well as the rest of it. |
| |
| ▲ | bee_rider 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I’ve had a 6+ and a 12. I guess 18 should be coming along soon, maybe it will be with an upgrade. But the 12 still feels… I dunno, really quite good. I’ve also had it in a case the whole time, if I opened a box and found this thing I don’t think I’d be unhappy. Other than the inevitable gunk that gets in the speakers and the charging hole, it could be new… I guess it is a race between battery health (80%) and update incompatibility, to see what will kill the thing. | |
| ▲ | sothatsit 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I was using an iPhone 7 up to this year when I got a new 17. The 7 just kept on trucking for a long time, even if the battery did suffer near the end. | |
| ▲ | bschwindHN 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | My only two iPhones have been the iPhone SE 2016, and the 13 mini. I miss the SE but the 13 mini is really nice too. It's a shame because the SE is still perfectly capable of running most software I use on a phone, but that software has just gotten more inefficient over time. | | |
| ▲ | deaux 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Apple says they stopped producing minis because they didn't sell. It seems they sold relatively better than the Air, and pretty much everyone I know who still uses a device of "13" or earlier generation, is on a mini. That's about 5 people just in my social circle still on a 13 Mini, and 0 people on any other non-Mini 13th or older generation. I reckon that's the real reason they stopped making them, people who use them, are willing to stay with their phones for much longer periods. Could also be that they break less due to being smaller. | |
| ▲ | SOLAR_FIELDS 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I have the 22 SE and I suspect I’ll get 3 more years out of it before they EOL it. I would have bought the 16e if it wasn’t such a blatant money grab. Touch ID is going to be hard to give up | | |
| ▲ | microtonal 14 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Touch ID is going to be hard to give up I'm kind of the opposite, I would never want to go back to Touch ID. It's so nice that you can set your notifications to be private by default, but the contents will be revealed when you glance at the phone. |
|
| |
| ▲ | cgh 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Since 2010: 3GS, 6S and now an SE. All of them were dropped, submerged and generally knocked around. The SE fell off the top of a moving vehicle. I do use an Otter case. | |
| ▲ | whiterock 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Oh my, I have found my soulmate on hacker news <3 | | |
| ▲ | zippyman55 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Its a threesome! (cringe) Yes, our iPhones really get pounded on and end up with so much street credibility as they look like they were shot with bullets but they keep working. |
|
| |
| ▲ | Gigachad 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | In the real world I don't know anyone replacing their phone every 24 months. Usually people keep a phone for 3-4 years and then it gets given to kids/someone else for another few years usage. I doubt any significant number of people are chucking their 1 year old iphone in a draw to sit unused after they get the next one. | | |
| ▲ | microtonal 12 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I know some people (me included) who get a new phone frequently, but it usually works by shifting down devices down the family. E.g. our daughter, my parents, and some of my in-laws all have devices shifted down from person to person. | |
| ▲ | someperson 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | With easier to replace batteries and 3.5mm headphone jacks, I'd wager the secondary market service life would be 2-3 times longer. Not to mention the e-waste from non-repairable battery-based devices like air-pods. Corporation make planned obsolescence decisions that happen to benefit themselves, then can dress it up as "water resistance". Wouldn't be so bad but Apple's anti-consumer decisions are unfortunately imitated. | | |
| ▲ | pbh101 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | What you describe as pro-consumer is only pro to some consumers, because they come with extra weight, size, and case compromises that every consumer would non-optionally be stuck with. I’d agree with you if we were in some no-compromise world or if there there was significant evidence that Apple wasn’t designing these phones within an inch of their pan-dimensional budget (size, weight, durability, hardware, battery life, etc) and leaving a bunch of room on the table, but that’s an unfounded and easily disproven theory. | | |
| ▲ | spaqin 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | I would be okay with being "stuck" with a replacement battery and a 3.5mm jack. That's a compromise I'd be wiling to take; but at the end of the day it's all about profit. | | |
| ▲ | pbh101 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | You might be willing to, but the product might be more attractive to millions out there if they didn’t have these items. You can say that is about profit but it is also about making a better product, weighed by what customers want in aggregate. | |
| ▲ | musicale 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | As PP noted, the tradeoff is vs. making things thinner and more waterproof. I'm OK with wireless charging and using the USB port for audio or other purposes, though occasionally I want to use wired Ethernet or Thunderbolt displays at the same time as wired audio, and I also use a wired charge/audio dongle as a car adapter (though there are wireless chargers available.) |
|
|
|
| |
| ▲ | conradfr an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Years ago the wisdom was that money was in software instead of hardware but for some reasons OSes and their updates became free. If the incentive is for consumers to buy more devices the incentive change. | | |
| ▲ | microtonal 6 minutes ago | parent [-] | | If the incentive is for consumers to buy more devices the incentive change. I think it also has to do with the shift in computing population. It was easy to convince tech people to buy a new OS based on a feature list. When computers became more widely used, it became harder and harder. E.g. when OS X still had paid upgrades, it was very hard to convince non-tech family to buy the update. Buying a new device is easier, because the features are immediately visible to people and carrying a newer devices is also a form of social signaling. At the same time, the internet became far more hostile and running an OS that has all the security updates is important. So, it's easier to get people to update when the updates are free. |
| |
| ▲ | plorkyeran 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I'm on my fourth iPhone in 13 years and have never replaced a phone because of anything related to physical damage. I'd still be on my third but T-Mobile offered such a large trade-in value for my 2020 SE that upgrading was the same price as replacing the battery. | | |
| ▲ | someperson 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | So you replaced your perfectly functional phone because they made the battery (a consumable) too expensive to replace? | | |
| ▲ | majormajor 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | The issue with batteries on older iPhones isn't even replacing the battery. Apple will do it for like $80 bucks or so out of warranty. That's WAY cheaper than a new phone. But every new OS version manages to use more CPU and GPU and burn down that battery faster even if it's brand new, since the older chips have to work harder to run them than they had to work to run the older OSes. I replaced my battery which was showing around 83% of original capacity last year, in a 3-4 year old phone. I was skeptical of the 83% reported number. Nope. The new battery didn't last much longer, nowhere close to how long it lasted on the OS it shipped with. (This software-cpu-bloat is not unique to Apple. My Pixel, after 4 years or so, was practically unusable just from the amount of background shit the CPU was doing, compared to when it was new.) |
|
| |
| ▲ | 1123581321 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | You make a point, but it’s hard to square valuing sustainability with that kind of personal replacement rate when the supported life is several years. That said, your old phone is either being resold or parted, and and the valuable materials from unusable parts are recovered through disassembly. | |
| ▲ | theshackleford an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I use my iPhones for five years minimum, same goes for laptops. I’m unsure what your issue is here. I’m on my 13 pro max now and will be at least for another year or two. | |
| ▲ | m463 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | they also added a filesystem to the phone. | |
| ▲ | wmichelin 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | My iPhones last at least 3-4 years. | |
| ▲ | jimbob45 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I feel like there are a lot of iPhone features being slept on. Pairing Shortcuts and Apple Intelligence lets a grandma do some powerful work that she could never have done five years ago. | |
| ▲ | qmr 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
|
|
| ▲ | gyomu 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Steve wanted to become chairman of the board and teach at Stanford. Given how much he trusted Tim, I’m not so sure the company would have taken a dramatically different path had he been around longer. |
| |
| ▲ | freediver 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Steve wanted to become chairman of the board and teach at Stanford. Do you have a source for this? | | | |
| ▲ | welks 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | If he hadn't tried to self-treat his cancer with acupuncture, fruit juice and herbs, he'd probably be around now to do that. The man was clearly a lucky idiot, and shouldn't be revered, but used as a cautionary tale of unbridled arrogance. | | |
| ▲ | vasco a minute ago | parent | next [-] | | People get sick and they die. Nobody should have to go through any treatments they dont want to. And to blame someone for that is like blaming them for thr disease. | |
| ▲ | rkomorn 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I'd consider myself a Steve Jobs hater (and I think his treatment choices were bad) but the five-year survival rate for pancreatic cancer is in the 10-15% range. "Probably", he'd not be around today. Even with his money, it'd be improbable. | | |
| ▲ | mikeyouse 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | He had a much more treatable and slowly growing variety of pancreatic cancer - it was a neuroendocrine cancer in his pancreas (an islet cell tumor). The 5-yr survival rate for stage 1/2 is something like 95%, and even stage 4 is still around a 25%. The more common and deadly pancreatic cancer you’re thinking of has a 5yr survival rate of under 15% and under 3% if it’s advanced to stage 4. If he had received real care immediately after diagnosis, he’d almost certainly be alive and cancer free today. | | |
| ▲ | rkomorn an hour ago | parent [-] | | I stand corrected! Not moving goalposts, but on another note: He refused regular treatment for 9 months, for an allegedly slow-growing type of cancer? That still doesn't sound that crazy, especially given he lived another 8 years. |
|
| |
| ▲ | johncolanduoni 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | He should perhaps be a cautionary tale against thinking that being really good at building consumer tech products makes you good at everything. But if this is your standard for "lucky idiot", I wonder who of note you wouldn't consider a lucky idiot. You can dig up something like this for everyone from Newton to Salk. | | |
| ▲ | gota 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | My go-to example for this is Turing. The genius of our field, and apparently duped into credulity about telepathy (probably based on faulty/fraudulent results by people at then-respected institutions) | | |
| ▲ | snowwrestler 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | To be fair, tons of scientists and technical people believed at that time that telepathy might be real. For example if you go back and read science fiction from the 40s, 50s, even 60s, there is a ton of telepathy and mental powers. This reflects both the authors’ efforts to predict future scientific advancement, and their audience’s willingness to believe it. |
|
| |
| ▲ | steve-atx-7600 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | A person should be judged by a stupid decision they made? I hope you never did anything that wasn't rational. | | |
| ▲ | rootusrootus 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Especially when it comes to life threatening illnesses like cancer. I've seen more than one entirely normal, rational person start grasping at off the wall solutions when faced with the imminent end of their life. | |
| ▲ | stickfigure 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Stupid decisions that result in fatalities deserve extra judgement. |
| |
| ▲ | usui 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Maybe watch this lecture by a medical professional https://youtu.be/81xnvgOlHaY before repeating a commonly-believed myth. | | |
| ▲ | pgalvin 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | That lecture is by a doctor who had widely discredited views on cancer, often cited as an example of quack, pseudoscientific claims on the topic. His claims, specifically on cancer, were widely and roundly rejected by the scientific and medical community. This is not a controversial statement, either - his supporters proudly proclaim that his views are rejected by the vast majority of experts which, in my opinion, pretty much sums it up. I highly recommend people avoid falling into this dangerous rabbit hole. |
| |
| ▲ | nozzlegear 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Few people should be revered, but calling him a lucky idiot is just blatant revisionism. |
| |
| ▲ | ludwik 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | But this sounds like an ideal setup, doesn't it? Tim is fantastic at execution, but he does need a shot of big-picture vision every now and then. Tim as CEO with Steve as Chairman, steering the broader direction, feels like it could have been a perfect pairing. The issue with how things actually turned out is that Tim ended up on his own - all execution, no vision. | | |
| ▲ | gyomu 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | How many people can name the chairman of the board at Apple today off the top of their head (Arthur Levinson)? And how much does Arthur Levinson steer the broader direction of the company? That's just not what the role is about. Steve was so effective precisely because he was able to get deeply involved in the day to day details in ways no other CEO has (whether on product matters, or personnel matters). That's not what you do as chairman of the board. | | |
| ▲ | majormajor 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > How many people can name the chairman of the board at Apple today off the top of their head (Arthur Levinson)? And how much does Arthur Levinson steer the broader direction of the company? That's just not what the role is about. Jobs in that role would likely take a much more occasionally-active role w.r.t. future product direction since that was kind of his bread-and-butter and the company was his long-time passion project. Not because that's the regular purpose of that role, but because that's what he'd probably want to keep doing. | |
| ▲ | isleyaardvark 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Steve Jobs would not have been defined by or limited by his title. | | |
| ▲ | blackqueeriroh 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Steve Jobs was a dick and a monster and his product vision did not make him a good person or better for Apple over the long run. |
|
|
|
|
|
| ▲ | AceJohnny2 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Cook's Apple got you: - Apple Watch - Airpods (& Pro) & Beats - Apple Silicon - Vision Pro |
| |
| ▲ | stinkbeetle 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | No, Apple had been doing their own silicon (presumably you mean for their phones) while Jobs was still CEO, and he bought PA Semi in 2008 which put them on the path to do their own CPU cores (iPhone 5 with Swift CPU was released the year after he died so he'd obviously seen the core design process through from the beginning to likely initial tape-out or very close to). | | |
| ▲ | snowwrestler 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Cook was COO through all of that too. He’s been at Apple since 1998. | |
| ▲ | pertymcpert 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Where do you draw the line? Apple Silicon as a high powered replacement for Intel as a concept was all under Cook's tenure, from initial investigations to product ship. By your logic where would we stop the attribution? | | |
| ▲ | stinkbeetle 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Draw the line for Apple silicon? With Jobs. I'm not sure what was unclear about my previous post. Jobs introduced Apple silicon. That's my logic. Jobs began the SoC design for iPhones and he began the high performance CPU initiative with the purchase of PA Semi. That's my logic. Putting their CPUs in laptops wasn't an incredible initiative from Cook either, it was basically an inevitability that mobile class cores would eventually intercept high end CPUs for performance after Dennard scaling ended, and it was widely predicted by many Apple watchers even before their own core came out, but particularly after the first ones came out. Some thought it would be sooner, some later. If Intel hadn't shat the bed for a decade, and/or if the PA Semi team and subsequent Apple CPU team turned out to be in the Samsung or Annapurna tier, then it might have taken many more years, or they might have switched over to an ARM Ltd core IP. But the trajectory for how things turned out was set in motion squarely by Jobs. Who brought up the CPU group and introduced the first high performance Apple CPU silicon. |
|
| |
| ▲ | gcanyon 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | If the Vision Pro were $1000 I'd buy it without hesitation. At $1500 I'd eventually talk myself into it. At $3500 I'm just waiting. | | |
| ▲ | crooked-v 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | It's a product category that will be really interesting in ten years (no sarcasm), when the hardware actually catches up in usability to the concept. |
| |
| ▲ | ww520 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Apple also invested heavily into EV. Though not succeeded, they at least put money into new areas. | | |
| ▲ | chubs 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Is it worth mentioning that there are almost countless Chinese EV brands nowadays? I wonder if Apple was really trying. I’m sure it’s difficult, of course, but it seems like every week there’s a new car manufacturer. To quote Clarkson ‘how hard could it be’ ;) | | |
| ▲ | seanmcdirmid 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Maybe they tried and didn’t find that they could be competitive with the hundreds of Chinese EV producers. The market was crowded, and they didn’t see what special value they could add? I mean, it’s already cliche that xiaomi decides to release one, but they released a heat pump as well, their stores in the mall are pretty confusing. | | |
| ▲ | rzerowan 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Interestingly enough if apple really wanted they could acquihire one of the currrent EV brands and do a beats/siri on it.
Theres probably a lot of churn currently before the field stabilises , and probably the entry point for a new entrant would be currently closing. |
|
|
| |
| ▲ | viraptor 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Beats started without Apple. They bought the existing brand. | |
| ▲ | csomar 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Vision Pro is underrated. The issue is that it’s not at a stage where it can go mainstream but the tech is insane. Apple silicon is huge and the only reason I am considering a macbook pro and waiting for the M5 max/pro series. I think people are underestimating cook because none of these replaced the iPhone and because of the significant degradation in Apple software. |
|
|
| ▲ | brailsafe 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Huge corporations are in the business of manufacturing boring things at scale, throwing money into pits, and moving slowly, it's just what they do, at least after they're initial rise. It seems cynical, but I think only a rare person at a rare company might disagree. As soon as you have dominance, you want to protect that dominance rather try something categorically industry changing. Even if you did, it wouldn't be surprising enough to get much attention unless what it was completely upended your own product line. |
|
| ▲ | rapatel0 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Yeah. all you have to do is look at "Apple (lack of) Intelligence" to know that Steve's presence and taste is gone. User: "Siri, <insert question>" Siri: "I cannot answer that right now" <end conversation> User: <follow up question, but then user realizes that siri has ended the conversation, so they prefix again with Hey Siri> please ask chatgpt < insert question> Siri: "Hello, sure I can ask ChatGPT · Check important info for mistakes" ChatGPT: "Hello, how can i help you today" User: <insert question> ChatGPT: Answers question and siri terminates conversation User: <asks follow up question, but then user realizes that siri has ended the conversation, user then goes to settings and disables apple intelligence> Egregious... |
|
| ▲ | overgard 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I dunno, the stuff they have now doesn't really need a lot of innovation. Like, my MacBook isn't very different from the one I bought in 2013 (other than massive performance improvements of course), but I don't really need it to be anything other than what it is. Same with my iPhone. I'll probably only replace that when the battery life gets bad. Most of the "innovations" on those lines have been annoying (touch bar, apple AI, etc.) In contrast, Microsoft has innovated a lot on the desktop since Windows 7 and I hate almost all of it. I'd happily go back to the old experiences. |
|
| ▲ | mountainriver 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Mostly fair, but I can’t express how much I love the M series and where it’s heading. I’m biased as an MLE but this is the greatest thing ever to me |
|
| ▲ | manquer 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > that's what shareholders want What else could shareholders want? Employees, management, founders, customers, vendors could all have other goals, wants or desire but when you have a large number of shareholders that is what they want always. Shareholders - a large majority of them are institutional with their own shareholders they are accountable to, always want more money - that is a core principle of capitalism. Occasionally we can tie other objectives to financial gains to get a behave in a specific way, say a green initiative will improve the brand perception therefore brand value - because now they can charge more/ justify current pricing etc. It can at times align the other way too for risk minimization - a founder wants a large budget for something - like say Zuckerberg with Metaverse[3], or Musk with $1T pay [2] firing the founder is more expensive[1] so shareholders sign off. Fundamentally it always boils down to profit/value maximization for the shareholders. --- [1] By no means unique, except for the scale of money spent on a vanity project. [2] Firing is more expensive - Tesla trades at such crazy multiples those are arguably not viable without Musk. It is probably cheaper to give then $1T pay package or the similar $56b package from 2018 currently being disputed in court. [3] Almost impossible in Meta's case. The board can fire the CEO in any company, but since Zuckerberg owns > 50% of the voting shares, he as the majority shareholder can also fire the board anytime and replace with a board who will sign off. It is not absolute power though, there are some protections for minority shareholders as Delaware court is showing with 2018 Musk package case. |
|
| ▲ | tptacek 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I couldn't disagree more. Some of the worst Apple computers I've owned date to the Jobs era. All of the best have been from the Cook era. Apple Silicon has been an enormous success. (My first Apple was a TiBook, for what it's worth.) |
| |
| ▲ | musicale 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The TiBook was a milestone product and a great Jony Ive-led design. Apple has been making silver, thin, metal laptops ever since. Even a titanium iPhone for some reason. The last Titanium model with 1GHz, 1GB RAM, gigabit Ethernet, DVI, Firewire, DVD/CD-RW, 64MB Radeon 9000, etc. seems pretty great and could run both Mac OS 9 and OS X. And that glowing Apple logo on the back of the display (which I miss in modern Mac laptops.) The main defects (apparently fixed in later models) seem to be the weak hinge and display cables. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_G4 | | |
| ▲ | tptacek 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I didn't say the TiBook was one of the worst Apple computers I've owned. But my 16" M3Max is so much better than it. And the construction of the modern Macbooks is not all that similar to that of the TiBook. | | |
| ▲ | musicale 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | What a difference 20 years makes, I suppose. Apple laptops do seem to have solid hinges now. ;-) Apple Silicon definitely transformed expectations for laptop performance and battery life, especially in a fanless design like the MacBook Air. I do wish my M1 MacBook Pro weren't bulkier and heavier than my old intel model. I went all-in on USB-C/Thunderbolt so I would have liked 4 ports (or more). But the battery life and performance are probably worth it. And the MacBook Air 15" is lighter and thinner than the 15" intel models, but still has good battery life. |
|
| |
| ▲ | lbourdages 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Well, the current hardware is solid - great build quality, powerful, insane battery life. However, software-wise, the peak was 10.6. There hasn't been the same level of quality ever since. | | |
| ▲ | xtracto 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It's simply amazing. I was looking for a ~$6000 USD 14in laptop with good specs. NOTHING compares to what Apple has right now. I looked at Framework, some gaming laptops, ThinkPads, Dells and most of them would require 16+ inches to get specs similar to a MBP 14 Ultra with 128GB unified ram and 8tb disk. ... Apple has done an amazing job integrating all that hardware. And I say this as someone who was looking to buy a notebook to install Linux, as its my favorite OS. So what im doing is put Ubuntu Server Arm + kde-desktop in VMware and use it as my main dev env. | |
| ▲ | tptacek 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I would not want to be running Snow Leopard. And remember, that's a release they had to do because 10.5 was so rough! | | |
| ▲ | majormajor 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | Why not? Other than "because they're old"? Tiger and Snow Leopard in particular were very solid releases. Heck, the aluminum Macbooks from that era are still the foundation of Apple's laptop design. And they didn't have the butterfly keyboard fiasco! But this is a bit of a irrelevant distraction. Apple under Jobs wasn't loved for quality of hardware, it was loved for telling a better story of progress of personal computing. From the iMac "make it simpler by going back to basics, but future-looking basics" to "easier to manage, funner to use music players" through showing how smartphones and then tablets could be far more functional and usable than MS', Palm's, or Nokia's visions. The watch is the next best category-definer since then, and the iCloud cross-device stuff generally feels better-done than competitors still, but otherwise... refine, refine, refine, and slowly add more ads and upsells. Microsoft or anyone else could run that playbook, in a way that they never could match the Apple playbook from 1997 to 2011. (One side question here is "are there new segments out there waiting to be invented?" which I don't know the answer to. But even so, "becoming just another upsell-pushing, ad-driven, software-subscription-service provider" wasn't a necessary path.) | | |
| ▲ | snowwrestler 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Snow Leopard eventually became a solid release. At launch it had many bugs, including some that lost customer data. It’s tempting to compare one’s memory of an old late-cycle OS, after all the UI changes have been accepted and the bugs squashed, to the day-1 release of a new OS today, when UI changes seem new and weird and there are tons of bugs they knowingly shipped to hit the launch date (just like with Snow Leopard). But it’s not really a fair comparison. |
|
| |
| ▲ | Gigachad 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | iOS and ipadOS have gotten massively better over the years. The gap between them and macos has been slowly closing. Still a lot to go, but so much has improved. | |
| ▲ | cortesoft 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Peak was System 7! | | |
| ▲ | musicale 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Apple's classic Mac GUIs were beautiful and discoverable, with clear, visible controls/affordances. Running Apple's "Macintosh" screen saver reminds me that Apple used to care about every pixel. Now even basic user interface elements like the menu bar are clunky, with things like the Window menu not aligning properly (even on a wide display where there is more than enough space.) Menus getting lost behind the notch is another annoying problem. It seems like Microsoft learned from Apple's original approach somewhat, at least for Windows 95 through Windows 7 (though I think for a while there was a dead zone below the start menu, a fairly obvious mistake), but Apple seems to have strayed from the path with an invisible, gestural interface. | |
| ▲ | linguae 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | From a UI standpoint, I agree. There’s nothing like the classic Mac interface and its associated Apple Human Interface Guidelines for GUI software. I love Jobs-era Mac OS X, but the classic Mac and its ecosystem of applications were something special. However, when it comes to UX, stability is a major component, and this is where Mac OS X is vastly superior to cooperative multitasking, lack-of-memory-protection Mac OS 9 and below. I prefer the classic Mac UI, but Mac OS X had a better UX. | |
| ▲ | flomo 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | On the other hand, the low-point was MacOS 7.6.1 Update 2 or whatever. |
|
| |
| ▲ | steve-atx-7600 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | What was different in the jobs era were the goals and trajectory toward achieving them. The tibook was just a first step. | | |
| ▲ | tptacek 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | Seems like a just-so story. They shipped some rough computers over the course of that trajectory. | | |
| ▲ | PeaceTed 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | It used to be a case of, always avoid the first generation of a product as they would only get it right the second time around. They were brilliant at pushing for new stuff but it came with the issues of pushing a little to fast at times. |
|
| |
| ▲ | ardit33 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Apple Silicon was started by/during the Steve Jobs era in 2010. You seeing the rewards now (well starting in 2019), because it takes so long to produce a chip. | | | |
| ▲ | throw_m239339 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Well Jobs obviously took risks, way more than Cook ever did. But Yes, Silicon was absolutely the right move, incredible performance leap, at an accessible price (but one could argue it's more of a failure from Intel). Now from a "culture re-definition" perspective, nothing is going to top what Apple did in the 80's and what they did again in the 2000's with the iPhone. | |
| ▲ | coolestguy 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The guy who oversaw the silicon change is the one who's likely going to be the next CEO |
|
|
| ▲ | wahnfrieden 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Arguably he overshot innovation, tried to kill the pocket bricks and failed (with a v1 that wasn’t meant to replace the rectangles but was supposed to be a first step toward that). Sounds like you’re ignoring Vision Pro. |
| |
| ▲ | hellcow 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Vision Pro is a perfect example of a greed-driven failure. Apple pissed off both devs and megacorps by keeping the ecosystem closed, fighting tooth and nail in courts such that every app needed to pay them 30% and couldn't be installed without their blessing, and unsurprisingly very few massive companies (or hackers) wanted to support Apple's fledgling closed garden. Without software, it's just a gadget. | | |
| ▲ | bitpush 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Apple pissed off both devs and megacorps by keeping the ecosystem closed This was so incredible to see play out in real time. You know where else this is happening now? Car makers and CarPlay. CarPlay might be objectively better but car makers are giving them the boot, for very good reason. Apple overplayed their hand (or as you say, was incredibly greedy) and now they get to live with the consequences. | | |
| ▲ | pbh101 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Tesla announced they are adding it this week. Ford’s CEO expressed glee at GM removing it. There isn’t a CarPlay App Store nor downloads to get 30% from (or if there were, they’d appreciably be enabled by Apple’s platform as we aren’t in the habit of subscribing to or buying apps for our car today), and while we don’t know the licensing terms from the GM removal it sounded like privacy violations and extra subscription revenue are their motivations for dropping CarPlay. That doesn’t sound consumer friendly on the carmakers part at all. I think this field doesn’t line up with the overall thesis, squint as we might. | | |
| ▲ | bitpush 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Tesla's news is interesting. A good question to ask in this who's in control in Tesla x CarPlay relationship. The answer is obviously former (Apple can't dictate anything and Tesla gets to boss around). That's very different from a Toyota x Apple partnership. So no, those are two different scenarios. The era of Apple controlling the platform is gone. (Except for legacy ones) | | |
| ▲ | buzzerbetrayed 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | How is the Tesla relationship with CarPlay different than the Toyota one? You didn’t make that clear at all. | | |
| ▲ | bitpush 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | People buy Tesla for Tesla and not because CarPlay. But CarPlay is a purchasing decision factor for other brands, which means a power imbalance exists. So this is a classic game theory situation. You want all participants (Toyota, Honda, Ford) to cooperate (not have CarPlay) and not defect. So participants watch each others move. If they stick together, all of them stand to win. If one defect, in the short term they might win but in the long-term Apple will seek to commoditize the car maker. | | |
| ▲ | mullingitover 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | > People buy Tesla for Tesla and not because CarPlay. They increasingly just don't buy Tesla. Strong growth in that segment lately. I recall though, back in 2021 we rented one as a test drive situation. The UX was so horrific I did an immediate 180 on that idea. Hard pass. Carplay might've saved that sale, their stock infotainment is trash. I wouldn't be surprised if they go all on in Carplay Ultra near the end. | | |
| ▲ | bitpush 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Oh, I'm aware. I have no love for Tesla. I was making an observation of what I see around me (plenty of new Teslas on the road even after Elons shenanigans) |
|
|
|
| |
| ▲ | lotsofpulp 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Tesla did not announce it. Bloomberg published an article speculating it. And Bloomberg has been wrong before. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-11-13/tesla-is-... >Tesla Inc. is developing support for Apple Inc.’s CarPlay system in its vehicles, according to people with knowledge of the matter, working to add one of the most highly requested features by customers. >The carmaker has started testing the capability internally, according to the people, who asked not to be identified because the effort is still private. |
| |
| ▲ | rootusrootus 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Huh? Apple does not charge for CarPlay. Some automakers are trying to give them the boot, but that has nothing to do with Apple's greed and everything to do with the automakers' greed. They want their own ecosystem of apps. | | |
| ▲ | bitpush 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Huh? Apple does not charge for CarPlay. I'll let you in on a secret. Ask yourself what the business case of CarPlay is. "Why" should Apple do CarPlay. Put yourself in the shoes of a VP at Apple pitching CarPlay. Are they saying "let's invest millions of dollars in inventing the UI for cars and give it away for free, for .. goodwill?" Nope, the slide deck would say 'Cars are the next computing platform. That's where most people spend time. So imagine is we (Apple) were meaningful present there .. and that's why we need to invest in it' So, yes CarPlay is a move to control another computing formfactor. One they do not manufacturer (like tv and Apple TV) ...and unfortunately for them, car makers are wiser this time around. | | |
| ▲ | rootusrootus 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | A simpler explanation is that all of these little conveniences add up to keeping customers firmly embedded in the ecosystem, repeatedly buying new iPhones. And sure, if we can offer another environment where an App Store purchase can be used, great. > unfortunately for them, car makers are wiser this time around Maybe. Ditching CarPlay does not currently seem like the wise decision, given how many of us have decided that omitting it is a deal killer. I love my Lightning, but I do not for one nanosecond trust that Ford would keep the app ecosystem on my truck running as long as Apple will keep iOS working on iPhones. |
|
| |
| ▲ | buzzerbetrayed 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > for very good reason. The reasons are subscription revenue and user data. Not sure which of those you consider very good. |
|
| |
| ▲ | jayd16 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | AVP is a great example of Tim's ability to execute the logistics despite lacking the user story driven sensibilities of Jobs. |
|
|
| ▲ | skywhopper 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| They’re still not quite as bad as most alternatives but yeah, most of the principles that made them stand out are falling away. |