| ▲ | Designating Antifa as a domestic terrorist organization(whitehouse.gov) |
| 116 points by Kye 13 hours ago | 171 comments |
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| ▲ | elgenie 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| This is an incoherent blog post. 1. The concept of "domestic terrorist organization" not a thing under any US law. Further, there exists no such organization in observable reality. 2. "All relevant executive departments and agencies shall utilize all applicable authorities to investigate, disrupt, and dismantle any and all illegal operations" is … nothing, because that's what federal law enforcement is already charged with. |
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| ▲ | odo1242 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Also, Antifa is the name of a political ideology, not any particular organization. | | |
| ▲ | xnx 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Exactly. It's like calling feminism a terror organization (at the risk of giving them the idea). | | |
| ▲ | r721 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Reminds me of Russia: >Russia outlaws ‘international LGBT public movement’ as extremist https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/30/russia-supreme... >Russia’s top court bans nonexistent ‘Satanist movement’ https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-supreme-court-bans-sa... | | |
| ▲ | cloverich 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | TBH i feel a lot of what is happening was easily predictable in recent years BUT i did not have "US follows Russia path" in so many words because i felt given our more generally liberal society and economic conditions i couldn't imagine such a path in my head. But it really clicked when i went to listen to the last few podcasts of the recently deceased and realized how it felt precisely like Russian propaganda; now here i am second guessing the risk of things i type when only a few short years ago i bragged that being able to yell f** Obama without concern was the quintissential example of how America was still quite different. The real struggle is i have true believers and apologists in my own family, and its just so... unreal how unreachable they are. For all the talk of what to do about it, i feel for people who havent really explored the depths to which many reasonably intelligent and reasonably kind people have fallen. And just wandering what if anything will shake them out of it. | | |
| ▲ | omnimus 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | It is fascinating how quickly US got on the Putin path. Trump seems to run the same Putin playbook. For example Russia also had max terms in a row - so this was removed in 2020 before elections (this will happen if Trump is still alive). Yes Russia still has elections but the fanaticized public + vote faking resulted in Puting having 88%. | | |
| ▲ | theshrike79 an hour ago | parent [-] | | Especially when a good bunch of hardline MAGA were alive during the Red Scare where communism and Soviet Union / Russia was bad. Now they're best buddies exchanging tips on how to oppress minorities. Wtf? | | |
| ▲ | CLPadvocate 3 minutes ago | parent [-] | | It's actually pretty consistent - they knew back then that the entire Red Scare was a complete bullshit, used only for oppression of dissidents - and now they are just using new methods for the same goal. |
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| ▲ | 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | pacomerh 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It still blows my mind most people that agree with this post actually don't know what the word means. This is just a catchy word to divide us. | | |
| ▲ | scoofy 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | What words mean is actually pretty complicated. When groups of people start co-opting one word as a symbol, rather than having a name that word can easily become a name for that group. | |
| ▲ | addandsubtract 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I have no problem being divided from fascists. |
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| ▲ | Gigachad 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | My observation is it's not even a full ideology. More of just a term and symbology to describe being against fascism. | |
| ▲ | fufxufxutc 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [flagged] | |
| ▲ | stogot 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The Biden DHS called them “loosely affiliated organizations” because they were underground. Closest analogy might be anonymous or lulz. You can see members show up to protests and carry Antifa flags, in full military gear, causing violence, etc. There are arrest videos on YouTube, and the ATF, DHS, and Florida AG went after some named members back in 2023 http://www.myfloridalegal.com/newsrelease/action-against-ant... Also others have linked to other orgs later in this comments |
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| ▲ | burnt-resistor 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It's an essentially fictional group those in power are hyping with whatever vilification they want for the third red scare to castigate any enemy or disloyal member so they can scapegoat and crucify whomever they want, probably including stealing their citizenship, property, safety, and/or liberty. Anyone stepping out of line will be subject to this treatment, and so 1a (e.g., freedom from government censorship) will weaken. | |
| ▲ | Tadpole9181 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | No, don't diminish what it is. It is the sitting president of the United States stating that a political ideology that stands against fascism is illegal and directing the executive - the most powerful and only functional branch of the government under the GOP "unitary executive policy" - to take punitive actions against this thought crime. | | | |
| ▲ | FranzFerdiNaN 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Its not incoherent, its the White House using the power and might of the United States government and law enforcement against it's own people, because they will just declare anything they dont like 'Antifa' or 'the left'. Its fascism pure and simple. | |
| ▲ | k33n 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | 1. Domestic terrorist organization specifically is not a thing under US law, that is true. But domestic terrorism is, and we do have RICO statutes. (https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/R47885) 2. Not incoherent. Seems pretty specific: All relevant executive departments and agencies shall utilize all applicable authorities to investigate, disrupt, and dismantle any and all illegal operations — especially those involving terrorist actions — conducted by Antifa or any person claiming to act on behalf of Antifa, or for which Antifa or any person claiming to act on behalf of Antifa provided material support, including necessary investigatory and prosecutorial actions against those who fund such operations. | | |
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| ▲ | stubish 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The thing about terrorists is you can shoot live bullets at protesting terrorists and hold survivors in offshore military prisons, and anyone with a problem with this are supporting terrorism. It might even become legal. |
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| ▲ | omnimus 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | And indeed anybody protesting has to be antifa otherwise why else would they protest? |
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| ▲ | gnabgib 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Discussion (114 points, 5 days ago, 106 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45283795 |
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| ▲ | baby 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | why was it flagged? | | |
| ▲ | lenzm 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | AnimalMuppet 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | Dude. Not everybody who flags political posts on HN is a fascist. Some are just really tired of the amount of political posts here. A lot of people don't have any problem saying that this is wrong. They just don't want the discussion to be here. They aren't fascists, or working on behalf of fascists. They just want HN to not be the all-politics-all-the-time channel that it seems to threaten to become. | | |
| ▲ | sgnelson 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | My thing is this: You don't have to read it. You don't have to read the article and you don't have to read the comments. HN is just about the simplest aggregator website there is. Simply scroll down two lines and you're onto the next story. But instead of ignoring it, there is very much a contingent of people on this website that would rather that no one discuss these controversial topics. Because you don't simply want to ignore it, you want others from seeing it. As afterall, there is the hide command, which you could also use. But I (and I believe others) think that these sorts of discussions are important, and people around here want to discuss them. Not all "political" stories are the same. This isn't "politics," where we're talking about taxes, or which minor laws are being passed, who's winning in what political race. This is about the future of American Democracy being gutted before our very eyes. But it's okay, you just go ahead and keep your eyes closed. I'm sure it'll all just go away because you want to ignore it. | | |
| ▲ | Freedom2 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | > But it's okay, you just go ahead and keep your eyes closed. I'm sure it'll all just go away because you want to ignore it. Despite the rest of your post being quite good, this right here is against the HN guidelines. It doesn't spark the curious discussion that the moderators here try to encourage and foster. | | |
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| ▲ | esseph 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Then leave the post alone and don't read it | |
| ▲ | myvoiceismypass 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Dude. Not everybody who flags political posts on HN is a fascist. Some are just really tired of the amount of political posts here. Don't read it and then move along. Why participate (and comment on?!?!) a discussion you feel unworthy of this space? |
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| ▲ | 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | silicon5 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Perhaps this is going to go like in the UK, where Palestine Action was proscribed, with the secondary effect that anyone who expresses support for Palestine Action is designated a terrorist even if they're not formally a member. |
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| ▲ | pluc 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Y'all gonna do something about this or are you still waiting it out? |
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| ▲ | area51org 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | What would you propose? Donating money to blackhole political organizations? Taking to the streets? None of that, or much of anything else, will "do something about this". There is no doing anything about this. It's also just meaningless posturing, just another tantrum by a man-child. | | |
| ▲ | baby 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Remember, October 18th https://www.nokings.org/ | | | |
| ▲ | pluc 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | If only there was a clause in your constitution that you hold particularly dear and deals with tyrannical governments. Either that or wait 3 years, show's just as entertaining for the rest of us. |
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| ▲ | throwmeaway222 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I'm all for it! :) | |
| ▲ | next_xibalba 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | What do you suggest be done? | | |
| ▲ | pluc 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | The same thing you would do if this were to happen in the middle east. Or do you only fight for "democracy" abroad? | | |
| ▲ | esseph 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | That's only a handful of the poor, the rest became software devs after they left the coal mines and auto manufacturers/s |
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| ▲ | slater 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | mid-term elections next year, maybe we can get some adults back in power | | |
| ▲ | ViewTrick1002 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Will there be a midterm? Will the national guard prevent and/or interfere with the elections in cities controlled by the Democrats where they are being deployed ensuring the "correct" outcome? | |
| ▲ | FranzFerdiNaN 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Lets not pretend that this government will allow the Democrats to win those elections. They are going to do anything they can to fuck with the results. |
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| ▲ | k33n 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Those who have a problem with it can vote for Democrats, I guess. Elections do have consequences. | | |
| ▲ | FranzFerdiNaN 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | That only works if elections can be considered fair and square. With this government the chance they will try to turn it into something more like a Russian election is way above 0%, and most likely will reach about 100%. |
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| ▲ | bigyabai 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | What's the pay like? | |
| ▲ | 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | oldpersonintx2 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | TheOtherHobbes 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This makes as much as sense as claiming that Tylenol causes autism. It's not even frightening - just comical. |
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| ▲ | the_gastropod 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | Respectfully, I disagree. It's kind of funny. But it is frightening because a not insignificant number of people take him seriously. I know multiple people who took Ivermectin for Covid during his first presidency. The “terrorist” designation of drug cartels is the excuse they’re using (and currently getting away with) for the 4 boats they’ve bombed into oblivion in the Caribbean. It’s kind of funny in its stupidity. But it’s also frightening how impactful that stupidity has been. | | |
| ▲ | omnimus 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Agree. Taking this as a joke (because its ridiculous) allows one to disregard it too easily. But as the rules of what is Antifa broaden - one might realize its too late. Then again it is so funny that there is a country that just literally banned anti-fascism and that country is not Russia or North Korea… but USA. |
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| ▲ | abstractspoon 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| What matters more perhaps is to be seen to be taking a hard line |
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| ▲ | 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | 28304283409234 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Meanwhile, the Netherlands followed suit and also declared antifa a domestic terrorist organization. |
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| ▲ | tromp 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | They didn't. You confused reports that a majority of parliament wants to do so. | | |
| ▲ | navane 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | On top, the government warned that it's legally improbable. Typical right wing rethoric, abusing the parliament process for campaign material. |
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| ▲ | jawns 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The most troubling aspect of this EO is that Antifa is not an actual organization, nor even a centrally organized movement. It doesn't have a recognized leader, nor does it have a cohesive or consistent ideology. In short, it's not an it. True, there are groups that have claimed to be anti-fascist and have protested the administration's actions. But much of this activity has been spontaneous rather than organized. The word "Antifa" is more of a derogatory term from the right than a term used by an organized group with countable members. Because of the fuzziness of what Antifa actually is and who counts as a member, this EO gives the federal government the ability to label people as domestic terrorists using a very broad definition. Given this administration's habit of pushing the bounds of its interpretive authority, I worry that this will have a chilling effect on protected political speech and protest. |
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| ▲ | overboard2 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | https://www.rosecityantifa.org/ Can you notify them that they don't exist? | | |
| ▲ | cmxch 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Kind of hard to argue against actual examples of said ideology being implemented. | |
| ▲ | myvoiceismypass 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Oh, founded in 07, back when the current president was a democrat donating to democrat races. Interesting! | |
| ▲ | khazhoux 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Fair, but still this isn’t a local chapter of a national Antifa organization. So it raises the question: is every local group that calls themselves “Antifa” now subject to investigation for domestic terrorism? |
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| ▲ | lostlogin 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > Antifa as a Terrorist Threat. Antifa is a militarist, anarchist enterprise that explicitly calls for the overthrow of the United States Government, law enforcement authorities, and our system of law. Does it? Or does it call for the Trump administration to be overthrown? |
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| ▲ | wmf 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I think there are forms of government that hardcore antifa would accept but they have no continuity with existing common law and zero chance of being elected in the US. So in some sense they do want the overthrow of any and all US governments. | |
| ▲ | russdill 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The two flags in the logo represent the communist and anarchist flags. The part about wanting to do away with the US government isn't exactly inaccurate. | | |
| ▲ | nelox 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | An oxymoron if I ever saw one. | | | |
| ▲ | the_gastropod 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yea, except that logo is from the original German Antifa, who was concerned with doing away with a different government… | | |
| ▲ | jltsiren 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | The original Antifa opposed both Nazis and moderates. They were particularly eager to oppose social democrats, which Stalin and Comintern saw as their main enemies. And it lasted little more than a year before the Nazis took over. |
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| ▲ | SanjayMehta 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Does it? Or does it call for the Trump administration to be overthrown? From an outsider’s perspective they ARE asking for a democratically elected government to be overthrown. | | | |
| ▲ | bluefirebrand 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Do you think that talking about overthrowing the legitimately elected government should not qualify as "terrorist threat"? | | |
| ▲ | whoamii 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | As long as we consider the Jan 6 rioters terrorists as well, I’m good. | | |
| ▲ | amanaplanacanal 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | They were just picnickers out having a good time. I guess. | |
| ▲ | bluefirebrand 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I'm fine with that, in case you think this was some kinda gotcha | | |
| ▲ | navane 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Jan 6 happened and is pardoned. "Overthrowing the government" is just talk. Shifting the focus on that talk is rethoric, this talk is unimportant and inconsequential compared to Jan 6. |
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| ▲ | k33n 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] |
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| ▲ | ternaryoperator 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Terrorism generally has specific elements; violence done against civilians for political or religious ends. So the Oklahoma City bombing would be terrorism, but the mass shooting in Las Vegas would not be. Unless calling for the overthrow of the govt includes a call to violence against civilians, it would not fit the traditional definition of terrorism. | | | |
| ▲ | lostlogin 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | So how would that compare with Trumps crowd storming the capitol? That was apparently fine, but antifa calling for it (if that even happened) is terrorism? Politicians call for governments to resign/quit etc on a regular basis. Happened here in New Zealand last week. |
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| ▲ | mcv 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Antifa is just short for Anti-Fascist. Their only goal is stopping fascism. If you see them as a threat, you're saying that you are a fascist. Also, it's not an organisation, but a mindset that all people who oppose fascism share. And most of those oppose fascism in peaceful ways that don't hurt anyone. |
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| ▲ | pacomerh 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Pretty sad to see this. Everyone in the US should be against fascism if they wanted a prosperous life. They're weaponizing the word to get what they want. Its absolute madness. Pretty sad to see this country fall into this state. |
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| ▲ | 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | burnt-resistor 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The new McCarthyism by metaphorically blaming bogeyman and outlawing them. And it's no coincidence that Trump's mentor, Ray Cohn, was an active participant in the Army–McCarthy hearings where lives were destroyed for ideological "purification". |
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| ▲ | 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | baby 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I got flagged yesterday for this post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45327333 (Ask HN: Is America Going to Become an Autocracy?). I got advised to stop reading twitter, so I added it to my /etc/hosts file, but it seems like the current administration is doing everything to scare me away. I'm legitimately wondering if I should move away from the US now. |
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| ▲ | instagib 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Try traveling somewhere that has fair safety but low median wages. There are many in USA or many outside it. Certain countries people will not talk bad about their leaders for fear for their lives. Others are happy to talk to you and are paid $1 per hour or $1 per day. Maybe it can put some perspective on things. | |
| ▲ | 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | khazhoux 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| As far as I know, Antifa is not a true, actual organization, but more of a rallying cry and a cause for people to self-identify with. I genuinely wonder if Trump (or rather, the top people around him) understand full and well that it is not an organization… If they think it is an actual organization, then they’re confused and acting based on memes. It would be incompetence backed by the full force of the US government. If they know it’s not an actual organization, then this is a ruse to slap federal prison time on protesters, if they’ve ever liked a blog post calling for the dismantling of fascism, etc. |
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| ▲ | blooalien 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | > "incompetence backed by the full force of the US government" Yeah, that pretty much describes U.S.A. 2025-20?? - R.I.P. |
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| ▲ | jauntywundrkind 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Absolute nonsense and hogwash, with zero shown basis in fact. Thankfully just empty words on paper, of no actual legal constitution, but the intent of the administration to go after people they don't like, to create an illusion of shadowy forces to justify their own violence & misdeeds, is clear & wicked. America should be fighting fascists! |
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| ▲ | russdill 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | And a reminder, they have been doing quite a few extra judicial killings lately based on the classification of "terrorism". | | | |
| ▲ | Ancapistani 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | And communists. | | |
| ▲ | BolexNOLA 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | I’ll trust a communist over a fascist every single time. They are not remotely the same thing. | | |
| ▲ | gubbler 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | mariusor 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | I must be behind on my political theory because that does not follow any logic I know of. The extreme left advocates for equal rights and equal wealth distribution, while the extreme right advocates for themselves in opposition to all others. As ideals I know which is more human. |
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| ▲ | fuzzer371 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | elevation 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The Patriot Act was named to imply that its supporters are patriotic and its detractors are not. The name "Antifa" has similar implications, while similarly missing the mark. | | |
| ▲ | 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | fuzzer371 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | macinjosh 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | amanaplanacanal 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Sometimes it's better to be strategic instead of going all Leroy Jenkins on stuff. | |
| ▲ | newAccount2025 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | So you’re only serious if you give up and embrace violence? Least American take ever. | | | |
| ▲ | BolexNOLA 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Are you seriously asking this person why they aren’t picking up a weapon and heading out to solve our social/political problems? | | |
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| ▲ | fufxufxutc 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | cobertos 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | fufxufxutc 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | Okay, but do any of the people you're describing as Nazis (Trump, MAGA voters, people who don't lean left, etc.) subscribe to the tenets of national socialism? Given that you say they're "literally" Nazis, you would think that they would. | | |
| ▲ | cobertos 8 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Yes I do. I recently joined a Discord to observe some of this (long story, didn't know what I was getting into) and that was a tenet of what was discussed. If you want specifics you'll have to email me because I'm not comfortable putting more details here. | |
| ▲ | throwaway-11-1 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | the Charlie Kirk memorial march in Huntington Beach had guys literally wearing "national socialism" shirts so yeah some of them definitely do | |
| ▲ | myvoiceismypass 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Patriot Front was literally marching through Orange County like a week ago. For a refresher: https://extremism.gwu.edu/patriot-front | |
| ▲ | 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | delichon 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] |
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| ▲ | amanaplanacanal 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Literal has more than one meaning. One is "figurative". Our brains want languages to hold still, but they keep moving! But even this old dog can learn new tricks. | | |
| ▲ | fufxufxutc 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | I hope you're joking. | | |
| ▲ | amanaplanacanal 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | From Merriam Webster: Can literally mean figuratively? One of the definitions of literally that we provide is "in effect; virtually—used in an exaggerated way to emphasize a statement or description that is not literally true or possible." Some find this objectionable on the grounds that it is not the primary meaning of the word, which we define as "in a way that uses the ordinary or primary meaning of a term or expression." However, this extended definition of literally is commonly used, and its meaning is not quite identical to that of figuratively ("with a meaning that is metaphorical rather than literal"). Is the extended use of literally new? The "in effect; virtually" meaning of literally is not new. It has been in regular use since the 18th century and may be found in the writings of some of the most highly regarded writers of the 19th and early 20th centuries, including Charles Dickens, Mark Twain, Charlotte Brontë, and James Joyce. | |
| ▲ | 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | qwerpy 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
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| ▲ | major505 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Beating people who think different than you is the pretty much facism. Just saying. | | |
| ▲ | 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | grumio 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >Beating people who think different than you is the pretty much facism. No. Fascism is fascism. I'd recommend reading Umberto Eco's "Ur-Fascism" if you are interested in learning. | | |
| ▲ | cmxch 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It’s the grab bag for smears, nothing more. | |
| ▲ | major505 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | grumio 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | I'm glad you came around to understanding what it is. I'm not behaving like a kid, I just prefer if people don't whitewash what fascism means, like you did in your previous comment (but not in this one). Muddying the term only helps fascists, whether on purpose or inadvertently. > If you going to punch people on the street don't complain when you and your friends are under a boot. Please don't make such assumptions about me, and please don't wish me under a boot. That's rude. Have a good day. |
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| ▲ | cies 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Fascism used to have a meaning. And that meaning used to be different from "violence towards those who think different". But nowadays... It seems to be used by anyone who does not like a group. Like when people overuse the word narcissist to the point it just means "asshole as perceived by the observer". | |
| ▲ | baby 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | Ralfp 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | We are on schedule. People seem to need to get a reminder every few generations why authoritarians are terrible at running the country. Sometimes the process is peaceful. Sometimes it isn’t. But the blame is not 100% on the authoritarians. The „we’ll refuse to do anything about your living conditions so you’ll radicalise and vote in somebody radical” is part of the cycle too. | | | |
| ▲ | endtime 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Maybe look up what the ACLU did in Skokie in 1978... | |
| ▲ | qwerpy 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Well when impressionable people get to define for themselves what a Nazi is (e.g. a car dealership for a company whose CEO we don’t like) and then firebomb it in the name of “punching the Nazis” then yeah I’m glad we’re trying to get past that. | | | |
| ▲ | major505 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] |
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| ▲ | throwmeaway222 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Well that's word play which means as much as Biden declaring people that want to make America Great are awful people. | | |
| ▲ | philistine 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | One is an opinion voiced that has no legal consequence. The other is an order of the government declaring as terrorism what amounts to a philosophy. The president did not declare a group as terrorism, he declared an idea terrorism. How is that equivalent? | |
| ▲ | Smeevy 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Sure, buddy. It's all the exact same. This insanity is just like it was under Biden. Remember the time that Biden canceled Gutfeld! and everyone went crazy about it? What about the time that Biden just gave himself the magical ability to tariff the rest of the world based on whimsy? What about all of the violence from those awful leftists every time some MAGA chud wore a "Let's go, Brandon!" shirt or put a sticker of Biden hog-tied and gagged on the back of their chudmobile? The important thing here is that you are awful people. I'm saying that based on the lack of morals, empathy, and basic human decency that has become the calling card of American regressives. | | |
| ▲ | stale2002 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | > What about all of the violence from those awful leftists If you actually care, which I doubt you do, there have been studies measuring the total damage done during many left wing riots. For just one example the total cost for the riots that happened between May 26 to June 8, 2020, across 20 states was around 1-2 billion dollars, according to reports. https://www.axios.com/2020/09/16/riots-cost-property-damage It is riots like those mentioned that I presume this executive order is targeting. | | |
| ▲ | amanaplanacanal 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Rioting is already illegal. This order has nothing to do with that. It's about painting his political enemies as terrorists. | |
| ▲ | Smeevy 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | 1-2 billion dollars? Over 2 weeks across 20 states? That's horrible. January 6th damage was estimated at $2.7 billion dollars by the GAO. That riot (more of an attempted coup) actually was coordinated by actual, tangible right wing extremist groups rather than the shadowy "Antifa" fiction that hides underneath all of your beds. https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-23-106625.pdf >It is riots like those mentioned that I presume this executive order is targeting. You presume? This administration has lost the benefit of any doubt. This is a cabal of shameless liars and they should be denounced at every turn. This is yet another transparent attempt to circumvent basic American rights and you're defending it like I said something mean about your local sports team. | | |
| ▲ | stale2002 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > That's horrible. Indeed it is. And any other whataboutisms you bring up doesn't change that. The topic was about if there was any leftwing violence. Which there has been. 1-2 billion dollars worth in just that time period. Anything else you bring up doesn't erase that. > I said something mean about your local sports team. Actually, you seem to be the one who brought up other teams or sides when I stated a true fact. A fact that you haven't disagree with. You tried to downplay this in your original post and you were wrong to do so. "You brought up this bad thing, oh yeah, well what about this other completely unrelated bad thing that the other team did!" is precisely the team sports thinking that you have engaged in, not me. | | |
| ▲ | Smeevy 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | One fun thing about talking with right wing internet commenters is that they don't really have any firm beliefs (protecting pedophiles is okay now, the government can take guns away from some people, etc.) and they love to feign grievance about darn near anything. I've got a little time so I might as well take the bait. >The topic was about if there was any leftwing violence. Was it? I mentioned the leftist violence, and absence thereof, in particular circumstances that you ignored. There was a slew of other stuff in there, but the main gist was attempting to counteract the other poster whataboutsing Biden saying that MAGA are awful people which, in turn, caused a whirlwind of hurt feelings that forced them vote in an authoritarian. You ignored that and wanted to review financials about black people rioting, thereby missing the forest for the trees and I should not have bothered to respond. Mea culpa. >"You brought up this bad thing, oh yeah, well what about this other completely unrelated bad thing that the other team did!" is precisely the team sports thinking that you have engaged in, not me.["] I hope you are not expecting me to take you seriously. I've been whatabouticized so many times by conservative pearl-clutchers online that it has no effect anymore. Near as I can tell, there's only one "team" here and I ain't on it. It seems to revel in disgusting me. If you can spend even a second defending this administration running roughshod over our Constitution then I have no interest in your political viewpoint. The best time to have been shaming conservatives was decades ago, but I guess now will have to do. My only hope is that the America Right can rediscover their sense of shame. | | |
| ▲ | stale2002 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | > I mentioned the leftist violence, and absence thereof Yes you did mention this. And it is wrong. As proven by the evidence that I showed you. > review financials about black people rioting That actually super racist of you. There was not some overwhelming majority of black people engaging in violence during those riots and I am not sure why you insinuated at such. The demographics of the people rioting were generally about the same as the demographics of relevant location of where the events. As should be expected. Additionally, the demographics of the more serious revolutionary/anarchist (and sometimes called antifa) type groups tend to be overwhelmingly white. The more peaceful protest groups that are focused on police reformed tend toward being full of people of color and aren't focused on overthrowing the government and implementing socialism/anarchism/whatever like the revolutionary groups are. > I've been whatabouticized I am not sure why you think a stupid fallacy is justified just because there is some other person in the world engaging in the same stupid fallacy. You have ironically just engaged in the same whataboutism again. In order to justify you engaging in whataboutism, you have once again appealed to "well some other person did it to me!". Team sports once again. If I were writing a joke about politics and fallacies in which I made fun of this behavior of justifying whataboutisms with a literal whataboutism, it wouldn't even be funny because it would be too over the top and on the nose. |
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| ▲ | throwacct 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I'm independent, and the $2.7 billion (which is a crazy amount of money) was basically to pay to procecute +1000 rioters. That is vastly different from burning cities, etc... Now, I've seen what antifa militants do almost every time they protest, and to be honest, they should have been declared domestic terrorists sooner rather than later. You can protest without having to vandalize/burning buildings, etc. | | |
| ▲ | defrost 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | From the GAO report: Over the course of about 7 hours, more than 2,000 protesters entered the U.S. Capitol on January 6, disrupting the peaceful transfer of power and threatening the safety of the Vice President and
members of Congress. The attack resulted in assaults on at least 174 police officers, including 114 Capitol Police and 60 D.C. Metropolitan Police Department officers.
These events led to at least seven deaths and caused about $2.7 billion in estimated costs.
The footnote on the cost estimate reads: This amount reflects, among other things, damage to the Capitol building and grounds, estimated costs borne by the Capitol Police, the District of Columbia, and federal agencies, and estimated costs to address security needs and investigations as described in budget and funding requests, appropriations, agency estimates, and other publicly available information.
~ https://www.gao.gov/assets/d23106625.pdf | | |
| ▲ | throwacct 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | > These events led to at least seven deaths Context is everything: $2.7 billion, where a big part went to: U.S. Capitol Police (USCP) Costs: Over $620 million (as reported by GAO). - Overtime pay for officers during and after the attack.
- Mental health services and trauma support for affected personnel.
- Recruitment and training of new officers to address staffing shortages.
- Enhanced security infrastructure (e.g., fencing, surveillance, communication systems). Judicial and Prosecution Costs - Total DOJ Expenditures: Estimated at $100–150 million.
- Salaries and overtime for prosecutors, FBI agents, and support staff.
- Court operations, including hearings, trials, and detention.
- Legal representation for defendants unable to afford counsel. And if you keep digging, the amount of money spent was basically on human labor and overtime pay. Now, tell me again how this compares to $2 billion in actual damages to businesses (arson, looting, and vandalism, etc.), with this event being considered the costliest insured civil disorder event in U.S. history? | | |
| ▲ | Smeevy 8 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I thought it was 1-2 billion dollars.... Are we just sticking with 2 billion now? Do I hear 3? Anybody? | |
| ▲ | defrost 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I'm unable to tell you again given I've not yet made any comparison between the two, merely quoted the relevant passages from the GAO report. I do note that the damages number you cite has risen from between 1 & 2 to definitely 2 and these damages are associated with a multitude of legitimate peaceful protests that became a magnet for others to stir trouble, loot and riot on a pretext, start gunfights, etc. It's a clear false equivalence to compare the single Jan 6th event of faction aligned protesters who invaded and damaged a building disrupting a democratic transition to a multitude of other events and locations across a lengthier time frame that involved many factions across the political spectrum including apolitical criminals of opportunity. |
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| ▲ | Smeevy 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | >I'm independent That's great and I totally believe you. Thumbs up emoji and all that. >I've seen what antifa militants do almost every time they protest, Oh my gosh, you were serious. Can you point out the "Antifa militants" to me? How would someone go about training to join the Antifa Elite Guard? I see there's a whole process to get into the Proud Boys and all sorts of other right wing extremist groups on Facebook, but I'm not quite seeing the path to membership for Antifa. Is it because they're so well organized and funded by billionaires? | | |
| ▲ | throwacct 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | This is interesting since I'm from a minority group, don't even know who the Proud Boys are, and even though I told you I'm an independent, you assumed right from the get-go my political affiliation. If antifa is not a group but a rabble of misfits, then this classification won't amount to much, would it? | | |
| ▲ | Smeevy 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | The road to authoritarianism is apparently paved with people telling me I'm overreacting. This classification, just like every other action taken by this administration, is a means to inflict damage on their ever-expanding list of enemies. The great thing about vague nonsense like this Antifa EO is that they can control who is and isn’t defined as Antifa. With regard to your political affiliation, I honestly do not care. If you want to gabble on about Antifa as if it's a real threat, you might as well just fly the Trump 2028 flag and drop the silly pretense. |
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| ▲ | seeEllArr 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | dzhiurgis 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | pacomerh 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | This page is basically saying they're taking your rights away. And you're ok with it? | | |
| ▲ | dzhiurgis 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | What rights? Shooting people for speaking their mind? You either deliberate troll or live in parallel universe. Antifa has been terrorists for over a decade. |
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| ▲ | lesser-shadow 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Good. |
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| ▲ | Grimblewald 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Makes sense. If something is terrorisms has always been about alignment of values and to a facist, anti-facists would 100% register as terrorists. Good to see the current US admin admitting it more openly, not that they have been particularly coy about it the last few months. |
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| ▲ | Ancapistani 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | Terrorism is the use of violence (or threat thereof) in pursuit of political objectives, against the public. | | |
| ▲ | Grimblewald 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Then what makes any military endevour non-terrorist? Isn't it all politically motivated in the end? | | |
| ▲ | Simulacra 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. The argument will never be won. |
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