It seems Circuit Hub is an alternative. Still more expensive than JLC, but not as high as other US alternatives.

https://www.circuithub.com/

Their CEO Andrew Seddon was recently on the AmpHour podcast:

https://theamphour.com/699-circuithub-12-years-later-with-an...

Do you care to speculate the impact?

I speculate this is going to slow down the small hardware hobbyist small business space, by maybe 50%.

To expand, in too many words:

Personally I have a penchant for music synthesizers and many of them are from a one-person shop. I imagine these 3x price increases are going to slow people down. Determined and cost agnostic people will power through this. People who just have an idea and are actually motivated by the past inexpensive PCB prototyping universe, will a lot more about cost and prototyping and a lot less about the problem that they're solving. And I just can't imagine it being anything less than a 50% slowdown for those folks.

Still an incredible bargain compared to any US-based production house.

That's always been my problem with buying American. I'd be willing to pay 2x as much to support manufacturers in my own country. Maybe 3x. But 10x-15x as much? EABOD, I'll stick with China. While infuriating, the Trump tariffs are nowhere near enough to alter the outcome of that calculation.

the US assembler cost would be $4000 minimum.

Ive implemented a lot of logic for international parcel shipments. In this industry something as small as a label placed a couple inches off can be grounds for very expensive chargeback. It's a very litigious space.

The fact that no one has the slightest clue how to implement this is insanity to the third degree.

Good find - it is pretty crazy how this impactful change (I can see the logistics/supply chain subreddits abuzz with this news) isn't at all clearly defined. Per your link:

> They cite ambiguity about what kind of goods are covered by the new rules, and the lack of time to process their implications.

It’s worse than that. After they realized that they had no system to support their idiotic plan, they tried to make it every other country’s problem by requiring that the vendor making the sale (in the other country) collect the tax and remit it to the US before the package gets here. Previously, tariffs were collected in the US at the port of entry or on delivery for smaller packages, and the sender didn’t have to worry about collecting them. This change is what caused all of the foreign postal services to halt service to the US.

Customarily duties are paid by the importer, often through a broker. How will this be handled for small items? Most likely a business will import products in bulk and pay the duties as normal.

How will it work for small, one off purchases? Well, I don't see how the tax payers are under any obligation to streamline that for people. The net effect will be to buy from US suppliers/importers, not directly from overseas.

> Reinvigorating America’s Beautiful Clean Coal Industry

I thought you were making a joke but that really is the name of the EO. It's so over for America

>I'm glad to see people in this thread saying that this will be an environmental win while we're ending subsidies for "Unreliable, Foreign-Controlled Energy Sources"[0] and "Reinvigorating America’s Beautiful Clean Coal Industry"[1]

see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45074362

The comments still focusing on Shein/Temu/Ali are wild. De minimis for China ended back on May 2nd. From what I saw on Aliexpress, it wasn't even a speed bump - the prices just went up, with "customs charges included". I've been receiving orders just fine.

Trump's policies are big on tough talk while actually having the opposite effects of the marketing. High import taxes hurt the pre-imported selection available from domestic retailers, as sellers have to pay the tax ahead of the sale and navigate the uncertainty that the rates might change in the future. Whereas direct-from-China goods already have cash in hand to pay the tariffs, and the only uncertainty is in the few days between purchase and arrival at customs. I expect to be buying many more things direct from Aliexpress, as the tariffs set in, domestic inventory is exhausted, and domestic-seller prices creep upwards.

Furthermore, the high tariffs on China do encourage investments in factories. Specifically, Chinese investment in factories outside of China, for final assembly of products. Investing in the United States would not be prudent, with the environment of political instability. So these policies are effectively strengthening China's relationships with other countries.

Never mind that many of the companies still known for manufacturing quality goods do so in other western countries. If the goal was really to oppose China, then it should have been time to pull together with our allies - not to levy import taxes to keep them (price-) uncompetitive with Chinese products, while alienating them with hostile rhetoric. Ultimately, our adversaries couldn't have dreamed of more favorable policies.

What do you mean by putting "friends" in scare quotes?

It's funny to see so much ideological incoherence: > we should consume local produce, is more sustainable and supports local communities

> what's your carbon footprint?! You fly around in jets 3 times a year?!

> let's buy 30c disposable crap from across the world while essentially subsidizing advanced industrialization of societies completely disconnected from our own

But you pay the same tax on domestic goods, it's just included in the price you see.

I know that you obviously know this, so it's a weird thing to mention in context of (additional) taxing of foreign goods.

The interesting thing is that at least my shipments from Aliexpress to the EU were always invoiced at $3-5 no matter how much I actually paid for them, circumventing the need to pay tax and duty on packages. I wonder if they’ll do the same now for the US, because my last packages (to the US) were delivered in February and were invoiced at the correct amount (though they were not above the de minimis amount)

Generous is a strange choice of word - it's like implying the government is entitled to its own citizens' money, and we should consider ourselves lucky that they weren't taking as much of it.

VAT is just a sales tax. Here in WA we pay ~10%.

In a world without friction tariffs wouldn't exist since they represent friction

> all because China couldn't resist taking advantage of the program

How is China "taking advantage" of anything? They produce decent products at low prices.

> all because China couldn't resist taking advantage of the program

It’s not China but businesses. Mostly Chinese businesses but it’s still a lot of individual companies that utilize it.

If consumers and small businesses weren’t ordering in the first place, then there would be nothing to “take advantage.”

Because then you will order from Kyrgyzstan. The same way EU trade with Kyrgyzstan jumped like 100 fold after the sanctions against Russia.

Really? You think this is China's fault?

When the de minimis exemption for China already ended 4 months ago?

And it would, in fact, have been easy for Trump to do exactly what you suggest, if that had been his intention?

This isn't about China.

This is about Trump's stubborn wrongheaded idea that tariffs are Good, Actually, and that means they should apply to everything.

I'm not thrilled with the way China acts in general, but come on; place the blame where it really belongs—and not on one of the victims.

Historically from a revenue perspective essentially all the tarrif revenue came from bulk imports (trucks, ships, etc).

It is important to also capture tarrifs from high value parcels, as for small but high value items a parcel can very much be a similar bulk import. (Picture diamonds. A moderate sized parcel full of them is very much a bulk import).

But at the same time trying to collect tarrifs on every parcel was historically deemed non-viable. Way too much work for too little gain. Especially since historically, the addressee of the parcel often ends up paying the tarrif, this requiring customs to communicate this to the parcel carriers broker, who must communicate it and collect from the end customer, who finally gives the money to the broker, who submits it to the government. Meanwhile CBP needs to store this package.

This whole process ends up just annoying your countries own citizens, and generated little revenue, so a de minimis exemption of some form was highly desireable. And to most politicians there seemed like little downside to setting it fairly large. Sure $800 is probably larger than reasonable, but it certainly means the average person would rarely ever need to interact with this process, and that was good enough.

Trade restrictions are mostly stupid (short term restrictions tied to clear objectives can make sense). If local businesses are paying taxes to import goods in bulk, we should alleviate that, not add friction to small transactions.

Temu pays vat and import duties in EU.

Sure, tell me more how it is awesome that I can't order $100 of dollars of small bulk electronic components for my hobby work direct from Huaqiangbei and get them here in a week. There is no US manufacturer replacement. Instead I have to turn to an import/export middleman also sourcing from Huaqiangbei but at 4x cost. In the eloquent words of our dear leader: SAD!

It's not clear that adding bureaucracy to help local businesses at the expense of the consumer is a net win

This is just a subsidy for American warehouses like amazon, who just act as middle men, making cheap crap slightly less cheap crap.

What happens to a profitable local business when the its cost of a cheap foreign raw material goes up? Sourcing locally might not be the answer, especially if the cost of a local acquisition goes up to be just below china+tariff.

That's not the whole picture. Everything on eBay, Shopify, Etsy, that weird online shop that sells that weird thing you're into from London or Prague, whatever, all of it is now going to cost more money for everyone in America if it originates outside of the US.

Yes, the majority by volume is from China, and from large trash sites that rightly aren't sustainable...

... but the second order effects on small businesses and consumers who enjoy buying from them.

What's the moral valence differentiating a "local business" from a local drop-shipper? What really *is* a business selling imported goods—if not a drop-shipper with a storefront?

Bold to hold contempt for free-market capitalism, when it's made your society so staggeringly wealthy, your concern of the day is literally worrying about landfills filling up with surplus wealth. Find some perspective.

Yes! This administration, once again, adds more government control into the lives of every day Americans by restricting free trade. A win for the United Socialist States of America! I do hope it continues to take an equity stake in local companies too. We really are becoming Great!

I want to weigh in here because I see comments focusing on how these products are useless trash. I think that's missing the point.

This wealthy engineer mindset is too literal. The AI-generated photos and fake reviews aren't bugs. They're features. They let the poor American with $100 of disposable income pretend they found a way to get an Apple Watch for $11. Just for a few days, they get to believe it might be real. When it arrives and it's crap, they knew it would be. But they got to play the fantasy.

TEMU's tagline is "Shop like a billionaire." I want you to really think about that. Marketers test hundreds of combinations to find what resonates. TEMU probably has thousands of marketers. They've tested millions of possible hooks. Millions. And this is what won.

"Shop like a billionaire" is the message that brought new people in the door above all others. Now what about churn? That's not the tagline's job. Don't let your knowledge of what exactly TEMU does and how it functions conceal from you this signal of what many (not all!!) people want.

However I believe they're not scamming people. They're delivering exactly what they're selling, which is the experience of feeling like you could have nice things.

Twenty years ago you could go to a matinee movie for a dollar. Two hours of escapism for a dollar. That product doesn't exist anymore. Theaters decided to serve a different customer base. They went upmarket. But people still want cheap escapism. Now it's $1-3 on TEMU to get that same escape. You browse, you dream, you wait for the package. It's entertainment.

TEMU is making things people want.

Sure, tell me more how it is awesome that I can't order $100 of dollars of small bulk electronic components for my hobby work direct from Huaqiangbei and get them here in a week. There is no US manufacturer replacement. Instead I have to turn to an import/export middleman also sourcing from Huaqiangbei but at 4x cost to me.

The environment cost is higher with the middleman "small business" because they need their own logistics (likely Amazon). So instead of a carrier driving from the boat to USPS/OnTrac, it goes into the warehouses at Amazon. Wow! Thanks! World saved! In the eloquent words of our dear leader: SAD!

If people need clothes they are going to buy clothes, and it makes little difference (other than cost to American consumer) whether it's direct from Shein/etc or bought off Amazon from some American manufacturer. For every shipping container full of Chinese product, there are going to be thousands of Amazon delivery trucks out delivering it to people houses.

It's easy to be snobbish about "low quality crap" from Shein etc if you have the money and preference to buy better, but for many people cheap stuff from China, whether bought in Walmart or online, is a godsend.

In terms of jobs and American manufacturers, there is zero demand for clothing sweatshop jobs in America, just as you don't see Americans lining up to replace illegals for low wage crop picking jobs.

All this is doing is making things more expensive for consumers. It's a consumer tax paid for by those who can least afford it.

And note that basically no other developed country had this carve-out except the US. People are foaming at the mouths about this issue, but no one pointed a finger at the EU or anywhere else.

Hi Keith, i met you 13-14 years ago in the austin startup weekend / coworking space.

I'm happy if there's an environmental improvement from this (never bought from the stores you mentioned), but a counterpoint may be in how all this impacts those trying to operate repair shops, labs, and teach science. Bunnie Huang had some arguments on tariffs back in 2018: https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/2018/new-us-tariffs-are-a...

There were some arguments from repair youtuber Louis Rossmann also from a few months ago: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xR2_eqNL604&pp=ygUWbG91aXMgcm9...

It's only a win if it's replaced with lower-energy domestic alternatives, though. (Which, needlessly to say, don't remotely exist in almost all cases.) If your argument is that we just don't buy it at all, that's just cheering for economic contraction. I don't think you've thought things through if so.

People think that this just means that their nieces will stop buying junky fast fashion or whatever but that their own clean aescetic lifestyle will be unimpacted. But, no, that avocado toast is bankrolled by your employer and IRA and investment accounts or whatever, none of which are prepared for a 10% GDP contraction (or whatever) because the rubes can't buy their skorts anymore.

Economies are boats. We all sink or swim together.

Not to mention that giving foreign storefronts a tax advantage is questionable at best. Do we really want to advantage random temu/aliexpress shops at the expense of brick and mortar retailers or even amazon, who at least employ local warehouse workers?

Environmental point of view would welcome wind electricity and generally pretty much any other administration

Thanks Jill Stein. There's a 3,500% tariffs on solar panels now btw.

That depends on how inefficiently substitute item is made. It's entirely possible that making a thing domestically will produce more CO2 than making it far away and shipping it.

Americans are rich and will buy wastefully made expensive item if cheaper alternative is not available.

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