| ▲ | caseysoftware 3 hours ago |
| Are those just banned and censored in Portugal specifically or the EU as a whole? A quick check here in the States showed all of them available on Amazon for under $25 each. |
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| ▲ | Aurornis 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| > A quick check here in the States showed all of them available on Amazon for under $25 each. The term “banned books” has become a pop culture meme. In this context it doesn’t literally mean banned, it means the book wasn’t allowed somewhere. In extreme cases a government in a controlling country may have forbidden the book. However in a lot of cases the “banned books” were just not allowed in some school’s library for kids somewhere. That’s why all of the books aren’t actually banned in the US and are readily available, unless maybe you’re a 3rd grader looking for them at some school library that probably wasn’t going to order the book for kids anyway before it became “banned” |
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| ▲ | john_strinlai 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | >In this context it doesn’t literally mean banned, it means the book wasn’t allowed somewhere. and what is a good word to use when something isn't allowed somewhere? perhaps... "banned"? i dont understand why people think something needs be unavailable globally to be considered "banned". there's a million examples of the word "banned" being used when X isn't allowed in Y context. people only get touchy about it when it comes to books for some reason. dang bans people from HN, no one gets upset about the use of the word "ban" there, despite it being a context-specific ban. | | |
| ▲ | Aurornis 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The confusion is because some books were literally banned somewhere, while others were just deemed not to be age-appropriate for young children in a school environment. We don’t call R-rated movies “banned” because we’ve decided not to show it at schools to kids. That’s why it’s confusing when we switch to books and the word “banned” means somebody, somewhere, decided it wasn’t appropriate for kids in their school or something like that. | | |
| ▲ | john_strinlai 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | the confusion is fake. books are the only time people get fussy about the word. (despite the same conversation occurring every month or two here) dang bans someone from HN? no confusion. alcohol banned in public? no confusion. weapons banned from schools? no confusion. books? oh my god, they aren't banned they just aren't allowed | | |
| ▲ | Aurornis 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > dang bans someone from HN? no confusion. alcohol banned in public? no confusion. weapons banned from schools? no confusion. Notice how all of those bans include a specific context? From HN, in schools, in public. No confusion. Notice how the only context in the headline is “in Portugal” but the books are not banned in Portugal? Confusion. It’s really not hard. | | |
| ▲ | john_strinlai 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | like every post on HN, if you want the context, you should read more than just the headline. its really not hard. |
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| ▲ | account42 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | If someone opened a banned speech museum and then it turns out most of the display is just spam comments from HN it would be pretty silly and rightly criticized. |
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| ▲ | wonderwonder 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | In your opinion is Hustler magazine a banned book becuase its not allowed in schools? | | |
| ▲ | InsideOutSanta 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | If you were to make a list of banned books, yes, it would be fine to include Hustler magazine, as it was (and remains) banned in many places (and because of its historical significance in the fight against censorship). | | |
| ▲ | wonderwonder 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I can pick one up at the corner store or order it online but its not allowed to sit in the libraries of US elementary schools so would you consider it to still be banned in the US? | | |
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| ▲ | john_strinlai 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | if i said "hustler is banned from my school", and someone came along and said "it's not banned, it's just not allowed", i would laugh. the word "banned", specifically and only in the context of books, is one of the fucking strangest quirks of HN. | | |
| ▲ | topgrain2 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Pretend confusion, especially over the very terms of the discussion, is a really common shitposting tactic all over the Internet. Though yeah it’s maybe more common here. Possibly because it falls under the category of trolling that doesn’t draw moderator ire (here, I mean, not in general) | |
| ▲ | wonderwonder 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | its not strange. Books represent knowledge and ideas. Ways of thinking. An attempt to ban a book is an attempt to restrict freedom of thought and the exchange of ideas. It has a historical context and a ban is generally considered on a societal level, not building specific. Some books are not allowed in school buildings, they are not banned. Banning books for example has a very different context than banning cocaine.
Cocaine use in the United States is banned, Hustler magazine is not. I can swing by the store tomorrow and pick one up legally, I can't get cocaine legally. Restricting Hustler from a school full of kids is not banning it. Thus the quirk. If I don't allow Green Eggs and Ham in my house does it belong in a museam of banned books? | | |
| ▲ | john_strinlai 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | >a ban is generally considered on a societal level no, its not. >Restricting Hustler from a school full of kids is not banning it. only if you are making up your own definition of "ban". by any dictionary definition, it is completely appropriate to say hustler is banned from the school. | | |
| ▲ | wonderwonder 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | If I don't allow Green Eggs and Ham in my house does it belong in a museam of banned books? | | |
| ▲ | john_strinlai 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | its completely normal and acceptable english to say that you've banned green eggs and ham from your house. that's my point. |
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| ▲ | tremon 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I'm more likely to laugh at the implication that Hustler somehow qualifies as a book. |
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| ▲ | guilhas an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | At a certain point it's called lying |
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| ▲ | llm_nerd 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The "in Portugal" is, I presume, a statement on where the library is. Further, when people talk about banned books, they usually mean at some sub-country level, even down to a school board. Like if you look at - https://pen.org/banned-books-list-2025/ - these books weren't banned from the United States, but they're controversial enough that individual school boards or library systems removed them. |
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| ▲ | tokai 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| No non of them are censored in the EU. They are all censored in the US, maybe with the exception of Salman Rushdie. US book banning is mainly schools and parent groups strong arming libraries and educators to forgo specific books. |
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| ▲ | illliillll 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Are you serious about this? There’s not a single school in the EU where an employee takes books off the shelves because they find them offensive? Because that’s the standard you’re using for ”censored in the US”. | |
| ▲ | caseysoftware 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | "libraries and educators to forgo specific books" is neither "banning" nor "censoring" In the name of literacy, we need to use words properly. | | |
| ▲ | Guthwine 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I believe when most libraries and stores use the term 'ban', they rely on PEN America's definition:
"any action taken against a book based on its content and as a result of parent or community challenges, administrative decisions, or in response to direct or threatened action by lawmakers or other governmental officials, that leads to a book being either completely removed from availability to students, or where access to a book is restricted or diminished." [1] [1] https://pen.org/book-bans/book-bans-frequently-asked-questio... | | |
| ▲ | caseysoftware 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Thanks, this is useful. > "any action taken against a book based on its content and as a result of parent or community challenges, administrative decisions, or in response to direct or threatened action by lawmakers or other governmental officials, that leads to a book being either completely removed from availability to students, or where access to a book is restricted or diminished." Though this is a fascinating definition.. anytime, anywhere says "no thanks" to carrying a book outside of purely budgetary or physical space limits, it is now a "ban". The more fascinating question would be discovering the boundary of what PEN, et al consider a "good ban" because I bet we could come up with a few. | | |
| ▲ | InsideOutSanta 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > anytime, anywhere says "no thanks" to carrying a book That's not what the definition you just quoted says. In fact, the definition you quoted is very close to the common definition of "ban": a refusal to allow something, usually by an official entity. It matters a lot who does it. |
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| ▲ | embedding-shape 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | What would happen if a child brought those not-banned or not-censored books to a library/school where they have "forgo those specific books"? What would the reaction be? I feel like if they'd still let the person read the book by themselves, and freely share it with others, then indeed it's merely a curation choice. But, if I'd expect, they try to prevent this person from reading their own brought book or sharing it with others, then I think it's fair to say that book been banned and/or censored, at least in that particular location. | | | |
| ▲ | buellerbueller 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yes, this is colloquially referred to as "banning." Sorry, you don't get to decide how others use language. | | |
| ▲ | account42 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Used by those wanting to sell and profit from outrage about "banned" books to be precise. | | |
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| ▲ | tokai 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | No, you need to understand that your specific narrow definition has not handed down by God, and is not more valid than others. US book banning has been a subject for so long now that you are tilling at windmills if you think you can deside what 10000s of people mean when they say banned. Is a specific institution or library are banned by their decision makers to have a book - that book is banned in that context. If you don't buy this that fair, but don't come at me with your pedantry when I just answered your question. | | |
| ▲ | caseysoftware 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Is a specific institution or library are banned by their decision makers to have a book - that book is banned in that context. By that reasoning, all PG-13 and R rated movies are "banned" just because your elementary school library doesn't carry them. Absurd, huh? "10000s of people" can create new definitions of words as they choose, just don't be surprised when educated people think they're fools. |
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| ▲ | jnovek 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It is censorship if those books are not included for a specific reason. “We aren’t including this book in the library because we don’t have space for every book.” <—— not censorship “We aren’t including this book because we don’t think it’s appropriate for kids to learn about trans people.” <—- censorship | | |
| ▲ | bluescrn 5 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | > “We aren’t including this book because we don’t think it’s appropriate for kids to learn about trans people.” <—- censorship Removing books from public libraries (not just schools) because we find criticism of certain ideas around gender to be offensive <-- definitely censorship https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-66441947 | |
| ▲ | logifail 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Playboy was never in school libraries either, basically because children aren't adults. Isn't this basic curation and child protection, not censorship? | |
| ▲ | buellerbueller 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Since there are no libraries with space for every book (ever), then there is no censorship? | | |
| ▲ | mcphage 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Since there are no libraries with space for every book (ever), then there is no censorship? When people ban books because they don't want others to learn about trans people, they're usually pretty vocal about their motivations. | |
| ▲ | 7bit 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | That's a childish argument. | | |
| ▲ | buellerbueller 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | My point was to highlight the ridiculousness of the comment to which I was responding; glad it worked! | | |
| ▲ | 7bit 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | It didn't work. The comment wasn't ridiculous. Your reply was. But yes, if you want to flip thing around so you feel validated, be my guest. |
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