Yes, they seem to work for many people. I don't mean to belittle that, I guess that is good. But, I'm not sure how that's interesting because "something works for somebody" is true for just about every category.

For example, some people want to work at Palantir and find it interesting that some executive named Steve Cohen runs the AC at 60 degrees and eats ice cubes all day to aid cognition[0]. There's a very wide diversity of people out there, so the fact that some find this appealing is not interesting or surprising.

So, the question, in my mind, is less that something works for somebody, and more about the broader meaning of this civilizational function.

[0] https://nabeelqu.substack.com/p/reflections-on-palantir (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41855006)

It is interesting because while the hotline might help some, it can also do significant damage to others depending on what happens after the phone call. Of course, nothing in life is every 100% good for everyone or every situation.

While not everyone that calls the hotline is involuntarily committed, I wonder how the data matches up with this finding [1]:

> "In this meta-analysis of 100 studies of 183 patient samples, the postdischarge suicide rate was approximately 100 times the global suicide rate during the first 3 months after discharge and patients admitted with suicidal thoughts or behaviors had rates near 200 times the global rate. Even many years after discharge, previous psychiatric inpatients have suicide rates that are approximately 30 times higher than typical global rates."

[1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5710249/

Having an option to talk to someone when you're alone and having trouble getting out of your own head is a great option. If you don't know what to do and you only see death as the option, having someone give you options seems like a good thing to have available at a relatively low cost.

I don't think anyone is expecting this to "solve suicide" but it sure as hell beats the alternative of... :checks notes: nothing?

Calling a therapist is similar to a "hotline" but you need to have a therapist first, which is a pain in the ass. Making that easier would be a good concrete second step (which a hotline can also help with!)

There is hard data showing they extended several thousand lives.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/988-hotline-linked-to-th...

The important thing to remember is the variability of the human condition, stuff that would fall 90% of the time can still move the numbers.

As mentioned above - there is data that helps.

What on earth is the "industrial complex" part about this? Outside of pharma pushing pills I'm not sure what other profit-seeking, recursive elements exist in the "suicide prevention industry".

Legitimately curious about this - not sure how these words would apply.

I understand the point you make but I would counter that being happy doesn’t mean you aren’t aware of the world and injustice around you. It doesn’t mean that you condone it, think it’s good, etc. It does mean you probably avoid self-destructive behaviors like excess drug use, poor sleep, etc.

Many happy people are also agitators for change.

Not to say that happiness is a choice, but you can certainly make choices which make you sick with anxiety. It’s a disordered behavior to purposefully reinforce your sadness and anxiety about the world for no useful reason.

For instance, many people feel compelled to expose themselves to the horror of certain ongoing events constantly, via video. There are whole subreddits dedicated to it, on every side of most conflicts. At the end of the day, that is neither healthy nor productive, solely self-traumatizing. One reason this is a pernicious behavior is because it feels like there is righteousness in being a witness, but in reality it’s no different than self-harm.

They're exchanging the data for a service.

That's a sale, a very old form of sale, called bartering.

A quick sweep of the lowest 20 countries in suicide and the most obvious thing that can be teased out is they're by vast majority extremely conservative societies where family and religion (mostly Islam) would likely dominate the goals of any person living there (with a couple exceptions). Only about half of the lowest 10 have any sort of functional welfare or state support programs.

I wonder if having a pretty rigid, straightforward, and achievable set of life goals lowers suicide. This isn't to say that's the best way to live, but I could understand how it may make people more satisfied with their life.

You're getting downvoted but that IS the logical next step and it will totally happen.

Many of these people do want someone to talk to 24/7, and they may well be isolated. They are not the only solution but one of them.

One of my friends was turned away from an NHS hospital the year before last and took his own life.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/will-988-call-the-police-data-s...

> Many people in mental health crisis fear that if they dial 988, law enforcement might show up or they might be forced to go to the hospital.

> But getting sent that kind of "involuntary emergency rescue" happens to around 1% of callers, suggests new data from Vibrant Emotional Health, the administrator of the 988 Lifeline for suicide and mental health crises.

Gun rights are generally not gone forever. Federal law bars people adjudicated mentally defective or formally committed to a mental institution, neither of which include a temporary mental hold for suicide watch. State laws vary, but none of them have a law where a single temporary hold means "gun rights gone forever." Some states let people go buy a gun the day they are released from suicide watch, despite how irresponsible that sounds.

So from what i understand the only way your gun rights are "gone forever" is if a court ordered you to go to a mental hospital. If it's just a 911 call and a ride to the hospital (every trip to the "grippy sock hotel" I've ever seen), that does not apply and your gun rights are not removed federally. Some states have "red flag" laws but to my understanding those are temporary and end either after a time period or a court petition. I'm curious what laws you're talking about in the US that would take your gun rights for a suicide call.

In The Netherlands you can be involuntarily committed to a mental hospital due to risk of suicide, still get a weapons license, buy half a dozen guns and then go on a shooting rampage killing 7 and wounding 17 (Alphen a/d Rijn shooting, 2011).

This is not a comment on gun rights, but, IF you are having issues with suicide and depression I would absolutely remove those weapons from your house and access. Talk to a friend you trust. Have them stored. Something. Having them nearby is only going to increase the odds you end up dead.

They follow a flowchart. Most of it involves trying to figure out if you know any friends or family nearby. I guess finding someone for comfort might make sense, but the flowchart is too obvious and makes it sound like another typical marketing callcenter.

> if you are suicidal in part because you live in a dangerous impoverished shithole good luck defending yourself afterwards!

Is realistically "gun ownership" a plus in this scenario?

Seems like one of those situations where damned if they do, damned if they don't, isn't it? Like if someone is in immediate crisis what do you expect them to do?

I feel like if someone is calling a line, they are looking for intervention. If someone cries for help and the response is ensuring that someone doesn't fearmonger on Hacker News, I feel like that would be a problem.

"And then yay, your gun rights gone forever"

Gun owners are much more likely to kill themself with said gun than to ever defend themselves in any way, and anyone who has ideations should be the last person to want a gun. And suicide mostly afflicts white middle-aged males, most of whom don't live in "dangerous impoverished shitholes". I doubt the correlation is more than random.

You really think that legal prohibition on gun ownership is more a difference in life-and-death due to murder risk than suicide risk?