I've heard the Dutch one is is a little better. The ones in the USA aren't likely to do much more than call police to put a mental hold on you, during which the hospital will rack up so many bills that it would make anyone suicidal. And then yay, your gun rights gone forever, so if you are suicidal in part because you live in a dangerous impoverished shithole good luck defending yourself afterwards!

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ceejayoz an hour ago | parent | next [-]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/will-988-call-the-police-data-s...

> Many people in mental health crisis fear that if they dial 988, law enforcement might show up or they might be forced to go to the hospital.

> But getting sent that kind of "involuntary emergency rescue" happens to around 1% of callers, suggests new data from Vibrant Emotional Health, the administrator of the 988 Lifeline for suicide and mental health crises.

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hilariously an hour ago | parent [-]

If anything I did had a 1% chance of involuntary committal I would stop doing that thing immediately.

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hx8 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I don't think that's the right way to consider your odds of involuntary committal. It really depends on what you say in the calls. The more immediate and serious the danger the more likely you are to be involuntary committed. The caller range is quite large.

	▲	JohnFen 5 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		So that means you have to watch what you say if you call such a line. That seems risky enough to discourage me from calling if I were in such a state.

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ceejayoz an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Does that include “untreated suicidal ideation”?

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hilariously an hour ago | parent [-]

Yep, as someone who suffers from depression and suicidal ideation regularly its been made very clear to me on multiple occasions that I would rather be in this state than interface with involuntary committal. I don't know what points you are looking to score here.

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ceejayoz an hour ago | parent [-]

I have several loved ones in the same situation, including two who've wound up in hospital in this way. I'm glad they did.

Fun? No. But better than dying.

	▲	hilariously 3 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		I get it, I am not advocating to live unmedicated or anything, but pretty much every emergency medical experience I have had any contact with in the USA has been so universally painful and dehumanizing that it gives me extreme pause, I would not willingly engage with it.

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retired an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In The Netherlands you can be involuntarily committed to a mental hospital due to risk of suicide, still get a weapons license, buy half a dozen guns and then go on a shooting rampage killing 7 and wounding 17 (Alphen a/d Rijn shooting, 2011).

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wholinator2 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

So from what i understand the only way your gun rights are "gone forever" is if a court ordered you to go to a mental hospital. If it's just a 911 call and a ride to the hospital (every trip to the "grippy sock hotel" I've ever seen), that does not apply and your gun rights are not removed federally. Some states have "red flag" laws but to my understanding those are temporary and end either after a time period or a court petition. I'm curious what laws you're talking about in the US that would take your gun rights for a suicide call.

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cj an hour ago | parent | next [-]

This heavily depends on the state.

E.g. NY is not friendly in this scenario depending on the type of permit and the type of hold. An involuntary hold will impact your right to have a gun.

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mothballed an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Involuntary commitment. Happened to a good friend of mine during a nasty divorce, the husband made up a suicidal story and my friend was committed without the court appointing her a lawyer to defend herself. She's struggling to get her rights back, it is apparently possible, but they're gone forever until you spend a lot of money on lawyers so it's true it's not strictly the case you can't get them back but they default to staying gone forever.

	▲	mx7zysuj4xew an hour ago \| parent [-]
		Just curious, but did this person have a history of emotional lability plus previous (voluntary) outpatient treatment?

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iepathos an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Gun rights are generally not gone forever. Federal law bars people adjudicated mentally defective or formally committed to a mental institution, neither of which include a temporary mental hold for suicide watch. State laws vary, but none of them have a law where a single temporary hold means "gun rights gone forever." Some states let people go buy a gun the day they are released from suicide watch, despite how irresponsible that sounds.

	▲	mothballed an hour ago \| parent [-]
		The temporary can easily turn into an adjudicated one. Happened to one of my friends during a nasty divorce, the high-IQ husband knew all the buttons to press to the state and kept fabricating to the state that the suicidal ideation was ongoing (it never existed in the first place) and then they committed my friend based on that. He was then successful in getting my friend's ability to defend herself removed so that she would be defenseless.

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the_af an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> if you are suicidal in part because you live in a dangerous impoverished shithole good luck defending yourself afterwards!

Is realistically "gun ownership" a plus in this scenario?

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llm_nerd an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Seems like one of those situations where damned if they do, damned if they don't, isn't it? Like if someone is in immediate crisis what do you expect them to do?

I feel like if someone is calling a line, they are looking for intervention. If someone cries for help and the response is ensuring that someone doesn't fearmonger on Hacker News, I feel like that would be a problem.

"And then yay, your gun rights gone forever"

Gun owners are much more likely to kill themself with said gun than to ever defend themselves in any way, and anyone who has ideations should be the last person to want a gun. And suicide mostly afflicts white middle-aged males, most of whom don't live in "dangerous impoverished shitholes". I doubt the correlation is more than random.

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gowld an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

You really think that legal prohibition on gun ownership is more a difference in life-and-death due to murder risk than suicide risk?