Yes, they seem to work for many people. I don't mean to belittle that, I guess that is good. But, I'm not sure how that's interesting because "something works for somebody" is true for just about every category.

For example, some people want to work at Palantir and find it interesting that some executive named Steve Cohen runs the AC at 60 degrees and eats ice cubes all day to aid cognition[0]. There's a very wide diversity of people out there, so the fact that some find this appealing is not interesting or surprising.

So, the question, in my mind, is less that something works for somebody, and more about the broader meaning of this civilizational function.

[0] https://nabeelqu.substack.com/p/reflections-on-palantir (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41855006)

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mden an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Can you explain what your point really was then? Belittling the idea of hotlines seemed central in your messaging and the possible exploitation of data more of a secondary thing.

It's fine to be cynical but it's also good to remember that there are real people that do care and try to improve the world as well.

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some_random 42 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Most people don't believe in incremental progress anymore, either it works 100% of the time and solves everything forever or it's a failure and you probably wanted it to fail because you're evil.

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timcobb 31 minutes ago | parent [-]

No I believe that what you have with the 11 percent decrease is reflective of diversity among people and what causes crisis. Suicide hotlines work for some people in some cases, that is undeniable. But it's not incremental in that you're not going to then iterate on the hotline and make it more effective and one day we've got 20% and so on. That won't be the case because the hotline is just not appealing for many people. It's good for the people it's good for, but that doesn't mean it's not a civilizational CYA/"not my problem".

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voxic11 23 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Are you under the impression that hotlines are the only intervention that is being explored?

	▲	timcobb 20 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		No.

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some_random 10 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

You already called suicide hotlines capitalist, I don't have any respect for your opinion on this matter.

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giantg2 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not the OP, but I saw it as a bandaid. Creating a hotline vs fixing underlying societal issues is a quick fix but doesn't fix the real drivers of the longterm increases.

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timcobb an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Sure, concretely, my point was that hotlines are a very capitalist feeling thing for me. Probably because of trying to deal with corporiations, from monopolies/utilities to things like airlines. My experience in this realm has been one of alienation. So, taking the hotline and applying it to people in suicidal crisis is like peak alienation in my mind.

Personally, I'm not anti-capitalist, but capitalism to me is tied up conceptually with money and expedience. Feelings, in my opinion, are sort of in a different human realm.

But yes, for sure, that alienation as I allege it, is probably good for many people in crisis who are uncomfortable with the people around them. However, the question of why it is that such people aren't comfortable with anyone around them is the bigger one in my mind.

> Please drink responsibily

To me, although they work, suicide hotlines appear to be a naked corporate CYA, just like gambling and other addiction hotlines. Civilization will beat you down, won't give you health insurance except for a few free COVID shots (then, suddenly, people can totally mobilize to administer collective healthcare), but hey when you've just about had it, here's a hotline you can call (and we'll sell your data hahahahaha sucker).

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watwut an hour ago | parent [-]

They are literally government paid social service you can call without additional charge. What the hell is capitalist about it?

Also Dutch give you health insurance beyond covid shot.

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some_random 9 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

What's capitalist about it? It works.

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timcobb an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

> What the hell is capitalist about it?

The rest, everything else.

It's darkly amusing to me we don't get healthcare here in the US but we do get suicide hotlines.

EDIT: wouldn't be surprised if Trump defunded/privatized suicide hotlines using companies run by the Trump Org.

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yladiz 42 minutes ago | parent [-]

> The rest, everything else.

What are you specifically talking about? What is “everything else”?

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timcobb 20 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Existence, where you're just thrown out there to sink or swim and that's thats. If you're lucky you have parents and/or friends who can help you. If you're not, well... good luck!

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KennyBlanken 34 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Why are you continuing to argue with someone who from their second response or third response in the thead - is at best disingenuous?

	▲	timcobb 18 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		Brutal that you would think I am being disingenuous based on my responses. Sad for me genuinely.

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wat10000 28 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

An 11% drop isn't "something works for somebody," it's "it works for a lot of people, substantially more people than it harms, making for a clear net gain."

In individual with odd habits is a completely different thing. That comparison is utterly inapt.

If you had an entire population that started running the AC at 60 degrees and eating ice cubes all day, and cognition measurably increased by 11%, that would be incredible news.

	▲	timcobb 23 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		To be clear I'm not saying it's not a net gain. It's very clearly a net gain. But, just because it works doesn't mean it's not a capitalism solution using the capitalism hammer of talking to random people behind a phone (which, again, might be a net good thing for some people crisis). So again, I am not against anti-suicide hotlines. I am sincerely happy they help many people. I just think they are very symbolically representative of our capitalist alienated world where everything, down to our very drive to exist, has a corporate CYA hedge hotline.