| ▲ | billti 4 hours ago |
| I think the timing of the Cybertruck starting deliveries roughly aligning with when Elon got heavily involved in politics hurt it quite a bit. It is such a distinctive vehicle with a strong association with Elon, that there was an immediate brand association. It may have had poor sales anyway, but it certainly didn't help that many folks on the left, who are typically the most 'pro EV', had a large 'anti-Elon' shift around its launch. That said, even though it's not to my taste, I do admire that they dared to do something different and took a big gamble on it. So many vehicles, especially in the truck space, are almost indistinguishable and lack any kind of imagination. Kudos to Tesla for trying to break the mold and push the category somewhere new. |
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| ▲ | grouchomarx 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| >I think the timing of the Cybertruck starting deliveries roughly aligning with when Elon got heavily involved in politics That and also it's just a bad product. >That said, even though it's not to my taste, I do admire that they dared to do something different and took a big gamble on it. A pickup truck should just be max utility, especially if you're a manufacturer making your first one edit: agree there's a market for the raptor off-road tremor package thing, but it wasn't ford's first and they've been selling commerical trucks for 75 years. A true tesla f150 competitor would have sold like crazy, I think |
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| ▲ | alexjplant 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > A pickup truck should just be max utility, especially if you're a manufacturer making your first one The modern US pickup truck isn't built for utility. It's a $60,000 four-door lifted luxobarge with leather interior and a short bed. It signals (perceived) wealth while preserving working-class alignment. It can also be justified by way of having to pick up used furniture for TikTok refinish and flip projects or bimonthly runs to Home Depot to buy caulk and lightbulbs. Independent tradesman can write them off as work vehicles or, allegedly, use COVID-era PPP loans to buy them. It's the suburban equivalent of a yuppie's Rolex Submariner. Investment bankers generally don't go scuba diving and if they did a dive computer would be vastly preferable. I say all of that to say that making a pickup truck for that market segment isn't a bad idea from a numbers perspective. You just can't market it as a luxury vehicle because the whole point is that it is but it isn't. | | |
| ▲ | jahsome 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | As someone who's just been trying to buy a crappy used truck to haul some crap to the dump a couple times a year, you're absolutely spot on. I even live in the southwest US where trucks make up a considerable portion of vehicles on the road. Crappy used trucks simply aren't up for sale. And even the rare listing I do come across, the asking price is ridiculously inflated. | | |
| ▲ | criddell 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | If you only need a truck a couple of times per year, maybe it makes more sense to rent one? | | |
| ▲ | alexjplant an hour ago | parent [-] | | Not even. When I lived in the boonies trash service was ~$75 a quarter, the local hardware store would deliver pallets of mulch for free, and furniture stores offered free delivery above certain purchase amounts. My buddy's dad would haul your boat between the marina and your house for a flat fee. Hell, I was able to cram a full PA with floor monitors and a few guitars into my Corolla for weekend band gigs. I started looking into getting a trailer or hitch hauler but it didn't seem to make much sense. I could usually pay somebody on-demand to move stuff around and it always worked out to be cheaper than owning and maintaining a truck. I presently work from home and don't even own a car anymore; the math is quite similar with rideshare and motorcycle maintenance coming in significantly cheaper. |
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| ▲ | gscott 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I have had good luck with farm type auctions just check the rust. IronPlanet is also really good but a little more expensive. | |
| ▲ | _whiteCaps_ 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Consider a Honda Acty - they even have models with a dumping bed. | | |
| ▲ | mywittyname 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | These are quite expensive for what you get and are slooooooow. It's fine if you want an expensive, quirky neighborhood runabout, but you'll be made very aware that this is a product not at all designed for the US market (there's a good reason most examples do ~1000 miles a year). The ACTYs I found online were in the $7-20k range, for a ~30 year old model - more for a nice van. The best used work truck is actually a van. They lack the coolness factor of trucks, but are far more versatile. You can pick up a <10 year old Transit with under 100k miles for like 10-15k. That price point will get you a >10 year old F150 in the 100-150k mile range. Plus, there are good options if you want something smaller can car-based, like NV2000s and Transit connects. Which don't really exist for trucks outside of newer (maverick) or niche (Ridgeline) options. Bonus points, a nice Transit is a great daily driver too. | |
| ▲ | ErroneousBosh 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Harsh did a tipper conversion for the Daihatsu Hijet, which had an 850cc triple with a lot more poke than the Acty's 660cc twin, and had a "true 4WD" variant. In the UK, Truck and Driver Magazine featured one so equipped in a head-to-head AWD tipper test (AWD in the sense of all wheels driven regardless of number of axles, not Subaru AWD/Audi Quattro type AWD), alongside a variety of extremely large trucks. Proper trucks, not F150s, we're talking 18-tonne Scanias and stuff here. Everyone wanted one of the little Hijets to take home. |
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| ▲ | mindslight 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Consider a trailer if you have even a mildly acceptable tow vehicle that can take a 2 inch receiver. Use what UHaul will rent you as a rough limit for what your vehicle can handle, and then if you want to save some weight get your own because it will be lighter than UHaul's brick shithouses. Having said that, I'm still in the market for a larger vehicle with a better tow weight rating as I use the trailer more than a handful of times per year, and my current tow vehicle is getting a bit long in the tooth. |
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| ▲ | HeyLaughingBoy 22 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It is utility, just not the utility you're thinking of. Try spending all day, every day in a basic, rough riding pickup truck, then compare it to spending all day in a "luxobarge" that can still tow a 7,000lb trailer. To the people I know who drive trucks like that, they're basically mobile offices. | |
| ▲ | bluGill 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The modern US pickup truck still has the utility image and they make sure they sell a bunch to people who want utility to ensure that the image is not lost. That is why the lightening came in a cheap pro trim clearly targeted at the things pros are likely to want. (I don't know how well it worked, but they seriously tried to sell to that market) Of course the real money is in the high trim levels that sell for twice as much but don't really cost much more. | |
| ▲ | sroerick 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yes, and they're awesome.
Also much closer to 100k. | |
| ▲ | staplers 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Class tourism is a succinct term here. Blending in with hardworking blue collar Americans is a whole marketing industry in itself. | | |
| ▲ | jeffbee 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Blending in with imaginary people, you mean. Every single actual blue collar worker who needs a truck for that purpose drives a 1997 Toyota Tacoma. | | |
| ▲ | matwood 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I had a 2008 Tundra I sold when I moved to the EU not too long ago. Still miss it. It was big, but could easily tow my boat or haul anything I needed. Was a 4 door and had a full sized bed. Had 125k miles when I sold it, and still ran great. I would have gotten a Tacoma, but I need the extra towing capacity. |
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| ▲ | a4isms 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > A pickup truck should just be max utility A working truck should be max utility. Around the core market of "working trucks," there are various wannabe truck products that do not have to be max utility. For example, a Subaru Brat or a Hyundai Santa Fe. Niche products compared to an F-150, but they had/have their fans. I personally can't stand the design, but the idea of an impractical "halo vehicle" that appeals to a niche audience but burnishes the brand as "forward-looking" is not a bad one. It's just the execution of this particular halo vehicle that I would have a problem with were I in the market for a lifestyle look-at-me vehicle. | | |
| ▲ | b40d-48b2-979e 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | A *working* truck should be max utility.
All trucks should be working trucks. There is no reason to drive something that large and heavy that isn't better served by smaller vehicles that don't damage our shared infrastructure while being safer to drive. | | |
| ▲ | switchbak 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Oh sure, but look at the vast popularity of these monstrosities that never even see gravel. I get how you (and I) find that abhorrent, but there's clearly LOTS of folks that find a blinged out useless luxury pretend truck to be very attractive. I was in the market for a pickup recently. I had wanted to like the Cybertruck, but ... too damn ugly, too version 0.3, too many dweebs driving them, too many teething issues even for a first cut. Plus it's as heavy as an F-250. There's almost no actual reason to grab one besides it being electric. Since I drive so little, I'd never pay back the embedded energy it takes to make the thing - so even that isn't a selling point. So instead I got a used Tacoma, and disappeared into the ocean of Tacomas that exist here in the PNW. It could be worse :) | | |
| ▲ | bluGill 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Trucks don't have to see gravel to be working trucks. If you use a truck for work purposes once a year it is likely cheaper to just drive a truck for everything than have a second car. Don't say rent a truck is an option - you probably can't rent a truck for most work purposes - most rentals have fine print against that, even if you can find a place to rent a truck the cost quickly gets to more than just owning your own truck. | | |
| ▲ | alwa 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Are you in the US? Most Home Depot locations will rent you one of several sizes of work truck for as low as $20 for a quick there-and-back of 75 minutes, or ~$100-200 for a day. I understand Lowe’s to do something similar. U-Haul does trucks. And if your needs are more ambitious, there’s Sunbelt Rentals through much of the country and Enterprise’s Trucks arm as opposed to their more consumer-familiar operation. If I’m using it once a year, I’ll splurge for a bigass 1 ton 4x4 which Enterprise Trucks is currently listing for $139 a day including 150 miles… and in 100 years, have spent the $13,900 difference between a dweeby little smarte car and owning my own pickup Not that there’s the least thing wrong with just preferring to own one, just options that I wish I’d known about earlier in life. | | |
| ▲ | bluGill 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Have you read the contract with Home Depot? You can't use their trucks for anything other than hauling your purchased from Home Depot home. I haven't see the contract with enterprise trucks, but I suspect it is similarity restricted against the type of damage this is normal from using a truck for work. You can at least tow a trailer with them. Their locations are not convenient for me either. |
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| ▲ | b40d-48b2-979e 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | even if you can find a place to rent a truck the cost quickly gets to more than
just owning your own truck.
What? I regularly rent a Lowe's truck when I need one (tends to be every year or two) to move mulch, furniture, whatever. I don't understand this take. | | |
| ▲ | bluGill an hour ago | parent [-] | | I have not read the contract with Lowe's - but I know home depot's contract states that you can only use the truck to take things you by at Home Depot home. If there is an accident you could be in big legal trouble with your rental use (so long as there isn't one they might not care) |
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| ▲ | kevinpet 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It's a lot cheaper to rent a trailer. |
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| ▲ | pixl97 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I hope someone fully capitalizes on what Edison is trying to do up in Canada. That is a fully electric drive train hybrid. That way you can charge it at home and charge it with a generator under use. Problem is our current laws are making certifications a mess. | |
| ▲ | nospice 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Oh sure, but look at the vast popularity of these monstrosities that never even see gravel. Normal-sized pickups aren't meant for offroading. |
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| ▲ | palmotea 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/12/opinion/marie-gluesenkamp...: > It’s all but impossible to go into any rural bar in America today, ask for thoughts on pickup trucks and not hear complaints about the size of trucks these days, about touch-screens and silly gimmicks manufacturers use to justify their ballooning prices. Our economy, awash in cheap capital, has turned quality used trucks into something like a luxury asset class. > It’s often more affordable in the near-term to buy a new truck than a reliable used one. Manufacturers are incentivized by federal regulations, and by the basic imperatives of the thing economy, to produce ever-bigger trucks for ever-higher prices to lock people into a cycle of consumption and debt that often lasts a lifetime. > This looks like progress, in G.D.P. figures, but we are rapidly grinding away the freedom and agency once afforded by the ability to buy a good, reasonable-size truck that you could work on yourself and own fully. You can learn a lot about why people feel so alienated in our economy if you ask around about the pickup truck market. > Instead, the authors of “White Rural Rage” consulted data and an expert to argue that driving a pickup reflects a desire to “stay atop society’s hierarchy,” but they do not actually try to reckon much with the problem that passage raises — that consumer choices, such as buying trucks, have become a way for many Americans to express the deep attachment they have to a life rooted in the physical world. A reader might conclude that people who want a vehicle to pull a boat or haul mulch are misguided, or even dangerous. And a party led by people who believe that is doomed among rural voters, the Midwestern working class and probably American men in general. > This approach to politics governed by data and experts is what we mean when we talk about technocracy. It’s a system that no longer really functions today because the broad societal trust that once allowed data and experts to guide political choices has broken down. Democrats, increasingly, live in a world where data and researchers convincingly show that low-wage immigration raises the economy and our gun laws are reckless and misguided. | | |
| ▲ | PaulDavisThe1st 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > A reader might conclude that people who want a vehicle to pull a boat or haul mulch are misguided, or even dangerous. How about I just conclude that while pulling a boat or hauling mulch are completely OK things to want a vehicle for (*), one does not need a F150 with a front end that reaches my chest and has gas mileage to prove it. As many have noted, pickups like the 90s Toyotas did these things just fine for almost everyone, but most US based manufacturers have stopped making them. Me noting that doesn't make me part of the doom of the political party I always vote for. (*) to the extent that we live in a society where private ownership of vehicles is completely unremarkable, that is. And we do, for the foreseeable future. | | |
| ▲ | sroerick 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | The Tacoma is the modern equivalent of the 90s Toyota, and while it is certainly bigger, it is not that much bigger. Also, there are a lot of boats, RVs and trailers which my 2019 Tacoma absolutely would not have towed successfully. |
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| ▲ | rjrjrjrj 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The Santa Cruz is about the same size as a Santa Fe and weighs less. The Ford Maverick is a smaller vehicle but also a truck. It is a working truck for some, and a rec/handyman vehicle for others. | | |
| ▲ | zdragnar 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | A Maverick is hardly a working truck. It's got the same towing capacity of an older Kia Sportage. It's got front wheel drive (or awd). It's a car with a bed, not a truck. | | |
| ▲ | cameldrv an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | I don't get this attitude. Everyone criticizes auto companies for not making a small truck anymore, and then Ford comes out with the Maverick and then you say it doesn't have enough towing capacity. It can tow 4000 lbs. That covers a whole lot of use cases. It also has a payload capacity of 1500 lbs which is quite respectable for a small truck. As for FWD vs. RWD, who cares? How does that affect your ability to move things around? Really the only thing I think you can ding it for is the small bed. It used to be that trucks this size would have a regular cab or an extended cab with the two tiny side facing seats, and they would have a longer bed. With the tailgate down you can still move sheet goods with a Maverick though. | |
| ▲ | rjrjrjrj 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Ford calls it a truck.
Ask a random person on the street, and they'll say it is a small truck. I've seen plenty of people in working clothes driving them, carrying working tools and such. | |
| ▲ | b40d-48b2-979e 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It's a car with a bed, not a truck.
Also called a Ute, which is fine! It avoids the weight and height that makes trucks dangerous vehicles to operate in a society. | |
| ▲ | Marsymars 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | A BMW i3 is a body-on-frame rear-wheel-drive vehicle, but I don't think anyone would call it a "truck without a bed, not a car". | |
| ▲ | ErroneousBosh 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > It's got the same towing capacity of an older Kia Sportage. How often do you need to pull 2000kg? | | |
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| ▲ | scottyah 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | There are different sized trucks for different purposes. A Maverick or Kei truck is lighter and safer than a lot of cars on the road while being way more useful. | | |
| ▲ | __turbobrew__ 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Maverick has a tiny bed (4.5 foot) whereas kei trucks can have up to 7 foot beds. I really wish we did small trucks with bigger beds here in North America. Really all I want is a hilux champ. |
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| ▲ | barbazoo 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Tragedy of the commons. | | |
| ▲ | allarm 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | This is a tragedy of an awful taste. | |
| ▲ | miltonlost 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Tragedy of not having better regulations. The commons don't have anything to do with it. | | |
| ▲ | Dylan16807 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Some of the motivations to get vehicles like that, like being up higher than everyone and having more mass in a collision, are solidly tragedy of the commons. |
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| ▲ | brokensegue 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The reason is personal preference. Same reason people buy sports cars. I also wish their preferences were different | | |
| ▲ | switchbak 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Reply to the sibling comment about little to no negative externalities: Sports cars sure do have negative externalities. I live next to a custom car mod shop in the boonies. People hoon around here like there's no one else alive. They put my life and the lives of my family at risk on the regular. That is most definitely a negative externality. | |
| ▲ | alistairSH 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Sports cars largely don't have any of the negative externalities of trucks. | | |
| ▲ | scottyah 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Their fuel consumption is about the same, what externalities are you referring to? | | |
| ▲ | alistairSH 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Sure, if you're talking about high-power cars (M2, Corvette, etc). A Miata or Civic Type R will get far better fuel consumption. And there's also wear on the road, noise, and damage to property and people when accidents happen (physics is a bitch). | | |
| ▲ | scottyah an hour ago | parent [-] | | Sure, if you’re talking about high-power trucks (F350, Ram 3500). A Ford Maverick hybrid will get far better fuel consumption. I think more sports cars are burning out, revving loudly (or getting modified to take out their mufflers), and the damage from going a lot faster creates more damage. |
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| ▲ | groundzeros2015 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | No, you just don’t dislike them enough to find them. |
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| ▲ | wil421 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | HN has hated Trucks and American cars, except when Tesla came out, for as long as I’ve been here. Same with Reddit. | | |
| ▲ | sroerick 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | It's pretty funny how much truck rage there is here. | | |
| ▲ | scottyah an hour ago | parent [-] | | It’s crazy to me. If you hate automobiles, trucks still make the most sense- if you’re just carrying people and a grocery or two you should probably be on a bike or ebike. |
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| ▲ | zweih 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I can't speak for the Santa Fe, but most Brat owners admit they have no intention of using it as a utility vehicle. The same cannot be said for most F-150 owners I know. | | |
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| ▲ | ActorNightly 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >A pickup truck should just be max utility, The problem is as soon as you go EV, you use a lot of utility from the get go. With a truck specifically, because its a brick aerodynamically. There is no reason to buy a Cybertruck or Lightning when you can get a gas or hybrid F150 (or a Raptor) for a little bit more, and be able to sit at 80 mph on highways without worrying about range. The biggest suprise about the lightning is that Ford didn't put in a gas engine in it as a range extender. They have 3 cylinder ecoboost engines that would have been perfect for that. | | |
| ▲ | drewda 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Here's a different aspect of utility: The F150 Lightning includes 120V and optionally 240V outlets, so it replaces the need to carry a separate gas-powered generator. That's probably more relevant to fleet vehicles for construction and maintenance firms than to individuals towing boats. But just to offer an example of how the F150 Lightning is a great fit for certain uses. | | |
| ▲ | shibapuppie 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | You can also get a standard hybrid F150 with the "Pro Power(?)" package, and the hybrid drive-train turns into a 7.2kW generator. | |
| ▲ | bluGill 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I'm surprised it didn't sell based on that. 20 years ago when I was in construction the truck drove at most 130 miles per day (we made sure to work 14 hour days when we were going to spend an hour on the road - the crew hated those jobs), but typically more like 30. The the first thing we did was pull the generator out of the truck and started it. If would could just plug into the truck that would have saved a lot of space/weight in the truck, it seems like a no-brainer. Then again, all the construction sites I see these days have mains power on a post, which we never had back then (I don't live in the same state so I don't know if this is universal or just this area has always been different). | |
| ▲ | Spooky23 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It's great for rural folks or others with power issues. For a few thousand bucks, you have a backup generator in your garage. | | |
| ▲ | bluGill 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | The only question is range when those rural folks go to the big city (if less than an hour they do this once a week because groceries in the suburbs of a big city are so much cheaper. If farther than that they still go once a month because of things they can't get. Though I don't know anyone who lives so far out that they can't get to a city and back in a long day. Otherwise rural folks often have something to fix on the other side of their property that needs tools. Cordless tools do a lot but sometimes are not enough. |
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| ▲ | nospice 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Here's a different aspect of utility: The F150 Lightning includes 120V and optionally 240V outlets, so it replaces the need to carry a separate gas-powered generator. A small generator costs few hundred bucks and fits comfortably in any truck actually used for work. It's a small perk that some pro users would probably pay for, but it's not a selling point for a radically different car design. | | |
| ▲ | adgjlsfhk1 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | it's a few hundred bucks, an extra thing to remember, takes up bed space, requires bringing gas, and is loud and annoying to use. It's not the biggest thing, but it's a pretty nice value add. | |
| ▲ | apercu 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Easily stolen. |
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| ▲ | Spooky23 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | My brother has one, it is an amazing vehicle with better range performance than Tesla. It's dramatically better in the snow. Towing of large loads is a valid downside, but reality is that most people don't tow, and people who do are probably fine with 80% of the use cases (construction trailers, lawn trailers, etc). The business problem Tesla solved at Ford cannot is the dealer network. He pre-ordered his, and the dealer he was stuck with tried to rip him off like 4 different ways. The other issue is that car guys are afraid of electric, as the entire supporting industry is essentially obsolete. It's hard to get excited about something that will take away your ability to pay your mortgage. Every car dealer employee and mechanic knows that. | | |
| ▲ | bluGill 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Electric cars still need maintenance. They don't get regular oil changes, but they wear out tires sooner. They have more recalls in general than ICE (this will likely change, but manufactures are still learning how to make EVs reliable). The parts of a car that are not common with EVs don't break for the first 100k miles, and almost nobody is using the dealer for cars that old. There is plenty of other work that is common that dealers will still need to do. | | |
| ▲ | philistine 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Your argument hinges on any level of maintenance being enough to maintain our current level of investment. The truth is always more complicated. Take for example DVD rental. The market completely evaporated, while there is still a small lingering community that could be serviced by rentals. My local library is proof that there is a market. But there are, bar some weird exceptions, no remaining DVD rental stores. If an EV needs 50% of the maintenance, then it stands to reason that you need 50% of the staff. That's the easy part. But what about all the other staff? Can you afford as many staff in front of house when your main profit centre shrank massively? Can you keep the same amount of cars in the lot if you don't have the cash to pay the manufacturer fees? |
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| ▲ | Marsymars 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > The biggest suprise about the lightning is that Ford didn't put in a gas engine in it as a range extender. They announced that along with the EV Lightning cancellation: https://www.fromtheroad.ford.com/us/en/articles/2025/next-ge... | |
| ▲ | jonlink an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Next generation of lightning is doing exactly that with a smaller battery, they're claiming 700+ miles of range: https://www.fromtheroad.ford.com/us/en/articles/2025/next-ge... | |
| ▲ | scottyah 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | You have one reason listed, which is going 80mph (which is illegal in most states). They also can't tow long distances easily, but are superior in nearly every other way. | |
| ▲ | adgjlsfhk1 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | You also gain some utility. Infinite torque at idle, cheaper 4wd, better traction control, fewer mechanical problems, etc. |
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| ▲ | groundzeros2015 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > pickup truck should just be max utility Except the main demographic buying F150s is suburban dads driving to their office job. | | |
| ▲ | bluGill 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | And using the truck on weekends to tow the boat, or do other work with it. Not every weekend, but once a month in summer. | | |
| ▲ | jeffbee 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | There are 5x more households with trucks than households with boats, so this hardly explains it. | | |
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| ▲ | wffurr 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Gas doesn't cost enough. | | |
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| ▲ | uncletaco 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I don't know much about car economics but I'd think Tesla probably should have built a truck to sell as a fleet vehicle first. There are very few car brands that aren't part of a larger entity doing b2b vehicle sales. | |
| ▲ | giancarlostoro 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > That and also it's just a bad product. I want whatever the v3 equivalent of the Cybertruk would be. Assuming they improve on it. | | | |
| ▲ | scottyah 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > it's just a bad product.
So you've never driven one? > A pickup truck should just be max utility
You don't know much about trucks? What does this even mean, max utility? Trucks are designed for different purposes. Should we eliminate all programming languages besides bash or python? > especially if you're a manufacturer making your first one
Seems like you don't know much about business either. Most new products should NOT try to do everything at once the first time. | |
| ▲ | catigula 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | >A pickup truck should just be max utility, especially if you're a manufacturer making your first one I don't think this is actually true, most pickup trucks aren't designed for maximum utility. They're designed to sell a lifestyle. | | |
| ▲ | everdrive 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Heartbreaking but true. The most popular pickups today are not the most useful pickups. There are no more basic utilitarian pickups any longer, at least in the US. Pickups are a little bit interesting in this regard. For any given model (eg: Tacoma, Frontier, etc.) the more premium the truck, the worse it is at being a truck. Each feature you add reduces its payload, and in the case of the Frontier, you could drop from a 6' bed with ~1,600 lbs of payload on the base model all the way down to a 5' bed with ~900 lbs of payload for the most premium offroad model. | | |
| ▲ | vablings 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I would be willing to say that a small Japanese kei truck is more than the average American would ever need for hauling furnishings, appliances and lumber. If you really need something bigger renting a trailer or truck is dirt cheap | | |
| ▲ | Ostrogoth an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | >If you really need something bigger renting a trailer or truck is dirt cheap It’s neither convenient nor cheap to rent a trailer in much of the US. Major cities have options, rural areas less so. Full disclosure I have a mid-sized pickup, but I recently looked into renting a trailer for a landscaping project that was above the weight limit for my truck. First issue I ran into was that there were not any trailers available for rent anywhere near my location. Second issue was that after factoring in driving distance + rental cost + dump fees, it was ~ the same price just to pay a junk company to haul the materials…and it was not cheap. Anecdotally, my pickup was cheaper than most other vehicle options at the time I bought it, my commute is short (so fuel economy is less an issue), and as a homeowner I use the bed to haul something at least once/month (Unfortunately kei trucks weren’t available at the time). So the cost/benefit/convenience factor of owning a truck over renting a trailer works for me. YMMV. | |
| ▲ | PaulDavisThe1st 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I found out a couple of years ago that you cannot rent a vehicle and use it to tow. This is a major barrier to the argument "when you need to tow <X> just rent a vehicle that can do that" (an argument I would like to support). | | | |
| ▲ | jeff_skj 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Except most people also use trucks as daily driver vehicles. You can't exactly fit the wife and kids in a kei. Sure you could also own a car for that but now I need to own/store 2 vehicles instead of one. | | |
| ▲ | olyjohn 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yeah let's not pretend every family with a truck only owns one vehicle. Most families already have a second car anyways. Especially people spending $60k+ on a truck. | | |
| ▲ | bluGill 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | That is my argument for EVs as well. One truck with an ICE for take the whole family on long trips, or towing. Then an EV for everyone else - whoever is making the long trip that day gets the truck. Truck works well for those role because it can do so much. It isn't the best for most of those, but it can do them. |
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| ▲ | rjrjrjrj 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The Ford Maverick is pretty utilitarian, inasmuch as any new US vehicle is. The Slate is utilitarian, but remains to be seen if it actually ships.
https://www.slate.auto/en | | |
| ▲ | throwaway173738 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I decide if a truck is utilitarian by whether I have to flag a 2x4x8 in the bed or not. | | |
| ▲ | olyjohn 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I decide if you need to have a step on your bumper because the truck is too high to get anything in and out of it. Lowering my truck made it way easier to load and unload. | |
| ▲ | foobarian 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I can fit one of those into my Ford Fiesta with the hatch closed. :smh: | | |
| ▲ | PaulDavisThe1st 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Closed and latched? I find that hard to believe (used to own an 80s Honda Civic which would allow "closed but not latched" for 4x8 sheet goods) ... | | |
| ▲ | foobarian 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yes, with room to spare. I assume the grandparent was referring to a stud, i.e. the nominal "2x4" that is 1.5x3.5inches in cross section and 8 feet long :-) Sadly I cannot fit 4x8 sheet goods though I haven't tried very hard. I can definitely fit them if I ask nicely for a lengthwise cut, so I end up with 2' wide 8' strips. Those I can fit and close the hatch. |
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| ▲ | red-iron-pine 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | these trucks are still a thing; Toyota sells a 10k stripped down work truck for places like Thailand https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a45752401/toyotas-10000... wouldn't fly due to chicken tax + other safety and emissions. they plan on selling em in Mexico tho, so maybe we'll see some float up... | |
| ▲ | shortstuffsushi 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > There are no more basic utilitarian pickups any longer, at least in the US. What makes you say this? The F-150 series has a pretty serviceable option in their XL trim. 8ft bed, 4x4, "dumb" interior (maybe not, looking at their site looks like the most recent is iPad screen, sigh) - but what else would you look for to call it utilitarian? You're right that each feature is further limiting, but I would argue premium and utilitarian are reaching for opposite goals. | | |
| ▲ | bryanlarsen 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | A F-150 from the previous century is much utilitarian than today's F-150's. The bed height and rail height are much more reasonable heights -- you can reach into the bed from the side. | |
| ▲ | sejje 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Manual gearbox, triangle vent windows, engine bay room, repairability, bench seats. | |
| ▲ | everdrive 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I wish it had even fewer features, but I take your point. |
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| ▲ | enaaem 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The most utilitarian truck is probably the Hilux champ and it’s not even sold in the US. |
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| ▲ | a4isms 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Lifestyle sells. I drive a wagon. Of course wagon owners talk about the utility. And yet, you can buy a wagon with a twin-turbo V8 engine. What's the "sportwagon" segment all about? Certainly not going to Home Depot to buy four toilets for the new house, it's about putting your $15,000 Cannondale Black Ink MTB on the roof and swanking up to the trailhead. | | |
| ▲ | switchbak 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It's about drag racing on the way to your Jiu-Jitsu club with the baby seats in the back. And still being able to fit that new vanity from Home Depot in on your way back home! | |
| ▲ | catigula 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The brain is a confabulation/justification engine. In reality ideal utility is likely found in the shape of a 2008 Toyota Camry and a U-Haul truck rental when necessary. | | |
| ▲ | pixl97 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | You may underestimate how much consumption some people in the US have and why a Camry wouldn't work. Hell, for the amount of hobby project stuff I bring home on a bi-weekly basis a car just doesn't cut it. Then again, I'm not sure where I fit in the average population. | | | |
| ▲ | adw 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | More like a 2001 Renault Clio. Camrys are already bloatware. | |
| ▲ | red-iron-pine 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | safety standards, gas milage, and a bunch of other factors have improved dramatically since 2008. buy yourself a gently used 2019 Camry |
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| ▲ | 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | giglamesh 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > ... most pickup trucks aren't designed for maximum utility. They're designed to sell a lifestyle. Yes, but that lifestyle can and sometimes does include actual needs for some of the utility. There is a great observation from Representative Marie Gluesenkamp Perez, a Democrat from Washington’s 3rd District in an NYT piece a couple of days ago. I included a perhaps too long quote in lieu of apologizing for the paywall. > “Spreadsheets can contain a part of truth,” Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez told me. “But never all of truth.” > Looking to illustrate this, I bought the recent book “White Rural Rage” and opened it more or less at random to a passage about rural pickup trucks. It cites a rich portfolio of data and even a scholarly expert on the psychology of truck purchasers, to make what might seem like an obvious point — that it’s inefficient and deluded for rural and suburban men to choose trucks as their daily driving vehicles. The passage never does explain, though, how you’re supposed to haul an elk carcass or pull a cargo trailer without one. https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/12/opinion/marie-gluesenkamp... | | |
| ▲ | catigula 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | If I mostly trim my hedges, but sometimes, very rarely, need to cut down small trees, am I best served by simply owning a hedge-trimmer and renting a chainsaw or other appropriate tool when necessary, or by buying a katana for both jobs? Everybody knows why you bought the katana. We know you have a story to tell yourself, it's just not convincing. | | |
| ▲ | pixl97 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | > and renting a chainsaw or other appropriate tool when necessary, I don't think most people realize how expensive and time consuming tool rental is. This is where things also get kind of messy in the US. In manicured suburbs you probably don't need a chainsaw. But in older growth and places with larger lots you really do need one. If you wait till you need one after a big storm, you may travel 100 miles out of the storm damage to find one to rent or have to wait for weeks as your driveway is blocked and contractors are booked up. For me the utility function is somewhere in between a car and a truck, hence why I have an SUV. I can carry the large boxes/items I seem to have at a regular basis. When I need something bigger I can rent a trailer to hook to it. Trucks themselves are way too expensive now, and I don't need that much capacity. A car would have me constantly renting or borrowing one from someone else (which I did when I owned a car and it was a pain in the ass). | | |
| ▲ | zaphoyd 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | We recently moved to a more rural location that has needed more tools. It is shocking just how expensive and inconvenient it is to rent tools (and even vehicles to some extent) and just how much worse it is being even just a little bit rural. The big box store in our town doesn't rent tools or vehicles. You have to drive 45-60 minutes to get to a store that does. This means the 4 hour rental prices (which for something like a wood chipper or chain saw might be sufficient for a lot of jobs) become nearly non-viable or highly stressful rushing through unfamiliar power equipment that really shouldn't be rushed. A full day tool rental is often 1/3 to 1/2 of the price of a new mass market version of the tool. A week rental is almost always more. The tools are rarely in great shape. You are almost always way better off going to an estate sale or local marketplace and buying a used tool. If there is a job you end up doing 2-3 times or need for more than a week its even cost effective to just buy new ones. You save so much on labor doing things yourself that even with new tools you basically always come out ahead. The best case is that you have a community run tool library that lets you check stuff out cheaply for a week and can have a relationship with the folks that run it. Similarly, getting to know the neighbors and being able to swap/borrow stuff. For vehicles this is a little more dicey because of liability & insurance issues. We've definitely struggled with the vehicle for long and sheet goods. We really don't need a pickup truck and it would honestly be a hazard on skinny mountain roads... but we do need to move lumber, sheet goods, appliance sized things just enough that it's a pain without one. We settled on a midsized SUV with passable towing power (as an aside, EV power and control makes towing a breeze as long as your round trip fits in one charge). Renting a trailer is still annoying, but at least can be done close by. For larger orders delivery can sometimes be cost effective (vs renting a vehicle or buying and maintaining a truck) especially because places often subsidize delivery to win business. | | |
| ▲ | pixl97 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | >A full day tool rental is often 1/3 to 1/2 of the price of a new mass market version of the tool For sure. I had to dig some post holes in limestone that was very hard. Rental was going to be $200 for a tool that would do it in a day. Instead I went to harbor freight and bought a tool closer to $100 even though it took me a bit longer, and I get to keep the tool which is still working to this day. Heh, and labor costs in the Austin area are off the hook. I did a project for around $5000 that a neighbor had a similar but smaller in scope project quoted for $21,000. |
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| ▲ | rationalist 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > I don't think most people realize how expensive and time consuming tool rental is. Same with truck rentals. | | |
| ▲ | brandonmenc an hour ago | parent [-] | | People seriously underestimate how much trouble a pickup truck rental from U-Haul can be. I’ve wasted so much time trying to track down which location near me has one available on the exact day I want to do major yard work. Often I have to reschedule my work or plan out super far in advance. Or take a day off during the week because everyone else also wants to rent trucks on the weekend. Then I’m running against the clock the whole time. An extra $100-$200 a month car payment to have a truck instead of a crossover is totally worth it. |
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| ▲ | Lammy 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > I do admire that they dared to do something different and took a big gamble on it. So many vehicles, especially in the truck space, are almost indistinguishable and lack any kind of imagination. I 1000% agree with this, in fact I love the way it looks, like something out of a SEGA Saturn game. But I would never buy one for the same reasons I would never buy any Tesla, or in fact any EV, or any post-2014 car at all. But the looks of it are not one of those reasons :) I do have to laugh every time I see a Tesla with one of those “Bought this before we knew Elon was crazy!!” stickers, because to me they just read as “Wahhh I bought my car to make a statement and now it makes the wrong statement and I am self-conscious about it!!”. It's weird to me to think that other people are thinking that way about their automobiles, because I bought mine (Prius C) based on its features and how they fit into my needs and my life. I guess the Prius line was a popular “statement car” of the pre-Tesla era, though, like how Brian drives one on Family Guy, or the “Smug Alert” episode of South Park, but it was never that for me. |
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| ▲ | autoexec 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Wahhh I bought my car to make a statement and now it makes the wrong statement and I am self-conscious about it!!”. I I read it exactly the opposite. Somebody bought a car not because they were making a statement but just because they thought it was cool, only to find out later Elon was a nazi nutjob, and they don't want people to think they bought it because they share the same views. | |
| ▲ | bryanlarsen 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Let me get this straight. You bought a "statement car" but not for its statement, and then you assume that other people driving a different "statement car" bought it because of the statement? | | |
| ▲ | Lammy 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Yes, anybody who puts a sticker on their car apologizing for owning it is somebody who bought it to make a statement. I bought mine because I researched best gas mileage, lowest ongoing maintenance cost, and dimensions that fit the the city, and that's what I came up with. | | |
| ▲ | slg 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | >Yes, anybody who puts a sticker on their car apologizing for owning it is somebody who bought it to make a statement. Or the opposite, buying the car wasn't a statement at the time and they don't like that driving it feels like a statement now so they got a bumper sticker to acknowledge that their continued ownership is not a statement of support for Musk and his ideology. | | |
| ▲ | Lammy 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Real ones wouldn't be thinking about it at all. | | |
| ▲ | bryanlarsen 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Lots of reports of Tesla's getting keyed. I know Tesla owners who bought the sticker just to avoid getting keyed. | | |
| ▲ | scottyah an hour ago | parent [-] | | My favorite is the cybertruck with the T O Y O T A decal on the back |
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| ▲ | slg 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | How are you defining "real ones"? Because it seems like you're implying that someone can't have political opinions while also occasionally making apolitical decisions. | |
| ▲ | psunavy03 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Until someone who hates Elon (not saying that's wrong per se) throws a brick through the window (which IS wrong per se) and you're on the hook for paying for it. | |
| ▲ | EA-3167 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | So it all boils down to "No True Scotsman"? How about I offer you an alternative: We don't try to guess why you bought what you bought, or why you need to so actively rationalize it, and you stop assuming that those stickers are something other than "Please don't key this car" signs. Less dramatically some of them are also "I bought this before the guy started throwing celebratory HiterGruß on stage and carving up important parts of the government for nonexistent savings." Which... for people outside of your bubble is something important. |
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| ▲ | 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | lotsofpulp 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | They also avoid buying certain cars to make a statement. |
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| ▲ | burkaman 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > “Wahhh I bought my car to make a statement and now it makes the wrong statement and I am self-conscious about it!!” The correct interpretation for most people is "I bought my car because it was a good car and now for reasons beyond my control it may appear to be a political statement. Also sorry for giving that guy money, I didn't know he would spend it on Trump." I understand you don't think it's a good car, which is fine, but most people who bought one did not agree with you. Your comment is a little confusing because you obviously understand this concept, you bought a Prius because you thought it was a good car, not because of a political statement others may have projected onto your purchase. The same is true of most Tesla owners. | |
| ▲ | psunavy03 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | They may not have put it there because they were "self-conscious" about their "statement car." They may have put it there in an honest attempt to avoid having their car vandalized for something they had nothing to do with. | |
| ▲ | pipo234 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > I guess the Prius line was a popular “statement car” of the pre-Tesla era, though, like how Brian drives one on Family Guy, or the “Smug Alert” episode of South Park, but it was never that for me. ... So you admit to falling for Toyota product placement in cartoons. | | |
| ▲ | Lammy 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Learn to read. I actually didn't see that episode until years after I both owned a Prius and lived in San Francisco, and I found it very funny :) |
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| ▲ | jandrese 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Politics or no, the price point ultimately dictated its maximum sales. By that measure it's a reasonable success, and if Elon was forecasting that they would sell multiple tens of thousands of vehicles per year at a $80,000 price point he needs to lay off the drugs. Elon sometimes seems like the living embodiment of "How much could a banana cost, Michael, $10?" parody of out of touch rich people. |
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| ▲ | Glyptodon 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I think if people who like trucks didn't see videos of things like the bumper ripping off when towing or minor failures leading to whole vehicle shorts it might have done better. The people who want trucks want resilience and ability to self-service more than the average car buyer. | | |
| ▲ | overfeed 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Cybertruck offroading attempts were also a hoot to watch. The whole vibe is that it is merely a truck-shaped Tesla EV that's terrible at most truck tasks. Sure, there's a market for mall-run trucks with pristine beds and never get any mud on them, but it's not a big one. | | |
| ▲ | scottyah 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | It's an amazing vehicle well suited to many normal tasks and more, and is an absolute pleasure to drive off road. I think you were subjected to either misinformation or very biased clips that were intended to warp your opinion. |
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| ▲ | WheatMillington 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It actually wasn't the bumper that ripped off in that video, it was the entire rear subframe tearing in two. |
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| ▲ | piyh 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I remember the "under $40k" announcement price | | |
| ▲ | scottyah 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | 2019 just before covid was a bad time to make price estimates five years into the future. |
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| ▲ | ryandrake 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I'll applaud anything that tries to move us away from the current stale design trend where every car looks like the same boring bar of soap and every truck looks like the same aggressive, drivable, mechanized fist. |
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| ▲ | alistairSH 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | But anything in this case is a pedestrian-maiming, finger-slicing, dumpster on dubs. Not sure that's really a move in the right direction. | | |
| ▲ | rbanffy 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I like the fact the design is bold. I don't like the fact it's criminally unsafe. There are lots of interesting concept cars on every car show. Too bad companies choose to never make them. |
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| ▲ | kylehotchkiss 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The bar of soap is aerodynamic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_coefficient | | |
| ▲ | jeffbee 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Right. All cars are converging on the shape of the Dodge Intrepid Hybrid. It is simply unavoidable. It is carcinisation, but for cars. |
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| ▲ | WheatMillington 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| You can attribute the failure of this vehicle to politics if you like, but it's fairly obvious to anyone watching why it failed - it came out at double the proposed priced with half the proposed range. It's not even the hideous design, there were hundreds of thousands of "pre orders" who knew about the horrible design. It's the price and range. |
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| ▲ | c0brac0bra 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Have we completely forgotten about how Tesla dealerships were shot up, firebombed? Video after video showing cybertrucks vandalized with scratches and spray paint? It may be a terrible car from a terrible program, but these events at least bear mentioning. If you saw it happening in 2025, would it have a cooling effect on your decision to purchase? Who would want the trouble? |
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| ▲ | scottyah 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | The targeted vandalism/terrorism definitely stopped a lot of purchases. |
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| ▲ | Fazebooking 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Elon Shithead promised a lot for apparently a good price and wasn't able to deliver. It wasn't just the hate i think. |
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| ▲ | matwood 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > Elon got heavily involved in politics hurt it quite a bit I think the Cybertruck was DOA and his involvement in politics got people who shared his views to buy one in order to signal the same. |
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| ▲ | jazzyjackson 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Also the fact that many truck deliveries were literally DOA as in the truck bricked itself in the driveway. | | |
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| ▲ | ElijahLynn 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The Cybertruck also does the tightest turns because it has front and back wheel steering. I could imagine that to be useful on job sites. |
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| ▲ | nearlyepic 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The kinds of people buying cybertrucks aren't going to be caught dead on a job site. | | |
| ▲ | revnode 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | That's not true. Boss likes being flashy. You won't see them being used for actual work, but that's a different proposition. | |
| ▲ | 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | olyjohn 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | No it doesn't. A regular Suburban without 4 wheel steering still has a tighter turning radius. A fucking Suburban! | |
| ▲ | throwaway-11-1 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | 2002 GMC Sierras did this, it was called quadrasteer | | | |
| ▲ | ErroneousBosh 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | A full-size Ford Transit - which is much larger than a Cybertruck, and much more useful - turns in about an 11-metre kerb-to-kerb circle. That's fully a metre and a half tighter than the Cybertruck. | |
| ▲ | karlgkk 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Not really, sites are pretty much always spaced out. Ironically, it’s best for city and daily driving - it’s a pure luxury feature. | | |
| ▲ | jandrese 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | It would be amazing in the city if it weren't two lanes wide. | | |
| ▲ | sejje 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It's the same width as an F150 | |
| ▲ | olyjohn 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Its not amazing in the city. The turning radius on the cybertruck is atrocious. Go look it up and quit believing the marketing bullshit. | | |
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| ▲ | stickfigure 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I'm one of the few people that love the cybertruck design, but even I can't look at one these days and not think "swasticar". It's terribly disappointing, really. Fully self-inflicted. |
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| ▲ | giancarlostoro 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I'll always give Tesla, SpaceX etc props for the work they accomplish, even though Elon is at the helm, he's not a perfect dude but I will give him props when he gets something right too. At the end of the day his employees are doing incredible work and it should not be written off because of Elon. To any Tesla / SpaceX employee whether you agree with Elon or not, thank you for helping to build a more interesting tomorrow. |
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| ▲ | ge96 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yeah SpaceX's tech is amazing. Funny China's like "star link launches are bad" then they're trying to do even more, China knows what's up. |
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| ▲ | GuB-42 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The thing with Cybertrucks losing panels certainly didn't help. A big part of the Cybertruck marketing was the robustness of its unusual design: exoskeleton! space grade materials! They smashed the door with a hammer and it didn't dent (just avoid pétanque balls...), Elon Musk commented that it would destroy the other vehicle in an accident. Morally dubious arguments sometimes, but it appeals to many potential customers. And then, the vehicle that is supposed to be a tank falls apart by looking at it funny. And the glued on steel plates, is it that the exoskeleton? Not only the design is controversial, but it failed at what it is supposed to represent. |
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| ▲ | JeremyNT an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I mean as with most "product" things related to Musk, it's more about the meme stock than any fundamental coupling to finances in the real world. Ford is a car company. They sell cars. The Lightning was a poorly selling car, so they stopped selling it. Pretty simple! Tesla is a lifestyle company. They make line go up by owning the libs, catering to edgelord identity, and triggering speculation. The Cybertruck probably gained the company more memetic shareholder value than it lost as a real product. |
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| ▲ | wolrah 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > I think the timing of the Cybertruck starting deliveries roughly aligning with when Elon got heavily involved in politics hurt it quite a bit. It is such a distinctive vehicle with a strong association with Elon, that there was an immediate brand association. It may have had poor sales anyway, but it certainly didn't help that many folks on the left, who are typically the most 'pro EV', had a large 'anti-Elon' shift around its launch. IMO the sort of person who wants a vehicle like Elon's dumpster has a strong overlap with Elon's politics. Basically everything about its design and marketing was aimed at the sort of person who is focused on presenting a masculine image, who thinks they're going to be in a war zone on their daily commute, who wishes they could drive through a crowd of protesters, etc. Basically the only thing "left wing" about it is the fact that it's electric. > Kudos to Tesla for trying to break the mold and push the category somewhere new. The only thing it actually did new was the drive-by-wire steering, which is by all accounts impressive but could have been done on any normal vehicle as well. The "unique" styling is mostly just re-learning lessons that John DeLorean taught the rest of the industry decades ago. |
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| ▲ | psunavy03 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > IMO the sort of person who wants a vehicle like Elon's dumpster has a strong overlap with Elon's politics. Basically everything about its design and marketing was aimed at the sort of person who is focused on presenting a masculine image, who thinks they're going to be in a war zone on their daily commute, who wishes they could drive through a crowd of protesters, etc. Elon is an ass, but this is still the most crudely and childishly stereotyped thing I've read on the internet today. Congrats. |
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| ▲ | jlarocco 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Honestly, both the Lightning and the Cybertruck are just bad trucks. Some review of the Lightning I read said it has less than a 100 mile range towing a full load. It's a fashion statement, not a work vehicle. |
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| ▲ | wolrah 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Some review of the Lightning I read said it has less than a 100 mile range towing a full load. Because of course towing long distances is the only reason you'd ever want a truck. Obviously we can start by acknowledging that the vast majority of F-150s (and other half-ton pickup trucks) sold in the US these days are purchased by people who maybe haul a load of mulch or dirt once a year and otherwise use them as daily commuter vehicles for which no part of their "truckiness" actually matters for any reason other than image. I absolutely agree that these people should drive something that's not a truck, but that's a battle we're not going to win, so I'd rather have them driving an EV truck instead of a gas-guzzling V8. It's an improvement in some ways even if in reality that suburban parent would be best off with a minivan as their daily and renting a pickup from Home Depot for that mulch run. My one friend who has a Lightning is exactly this. She used to have a gas F-150, replaced it with a RAV4 that she didn't like so she rapidly replaced that with the Lightning and loves it. Lots of power, quiet, smooth, and never needs to go to the gas station. I don't think she's ever fast charged it, just plugs in at home and goes about her life. Where I live there are a lot of people who actually do need a truck or truck-based SUV for recreational purposes but don't really go long distances, like towing their boat up to the lake for the weekend, towing ATVs to the trail, or towing a RV trailer to a nearby state/national park where they'll then plug in to the nice 50A outlet and charge back up overnight without having to think about it. There are also an absolute ton of commercial fleets that need pickup trucks for one reason or another but their trucks never leave their metro area and always end up back at the office every night. Lawn care, delivery, etc. where the only downside of the current lineup of electric trucks is that they're all only offered as the ultra short bed crew cab configuration instead of a long-bed standard cab. --- EVs are absolutely the wrong choice for time-constrained long distance travel, like long-haul trucking or the midwestern three-day-weekend road trip, but the Lightning and its GM competition that were actually designed to be good at things instead of a pure image machine are very good at certain roles. | |
| ▲ | iAMkenough 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I counted 49 pickup trucks with empty beds in the parking garage downtown this morning. | | |
| ▲ | sroerick 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Wouldn't there be a selection bias, as trucks in parking garages are much less likely to be doing hauling /towing tasks? | |
| ▲ | scottyah an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I counted 50 sedans with empty seats in the parking garage downtown this morning. | |
| ▲ | olyjohn 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Half of them sticking out into the roadway blocking half the lane. What an entitlement. | |
| ▲ | bluGill 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | So? You saw them for one subset of what they are doing. Perhaps the most common one, but still just a subset. |
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| ▲ | starik36 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > many vehicles ... are almost indistinguishable That is so right on the money. I attended the LA Auto Show a couple of months back and the takeaway was that every manufacturer pretty much makes the same safe car. There might be a feature here and feature there, but it's the same car. In the years past they at least had lots of concept cars. This year, I maybe saw two and they weren't all that "concept". |
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| ▲ | Spooky23 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Elon going off the deep end is the tail wagging the dog. It's an objectively terrible car. The collapse of the company overall, particularly the Model Y, which is a great car, is all about Elon. Not only his unveiling as a fascist, but he essentially looted the company. |
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| ▲ | red-iron-pine 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | pumped the stock and then tried to use the twitter buy as a way to sell greatly without taking the price too hard. they wouldn't let him out of the sale -- he sued 3 times to get out of the twitter buy agreement -- so now he owns that too. |
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| ▲ | guluarte 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| gl getting out of one in case of a crash when the battery that opens the doors malfunction |
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| ▲ | LeoPanthera 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I'm very much on the left, and I honestly like the design of the Cybertruck. (I know this puts me in a minority.) It is disappointing that the original "unibody" design was abandoned. The new design where the body panels just randomly fall off is silly. If it was made by some other company I would genuinely consider buying one. But I would never buy another Tesla. I owned an older Model X, before Elon went full-fascism. And even ignoring Elon, the car was awful. It was shoddily built, kept breaking down, and the service experience was shockingly bad. Absolutely atrocious. But after all that, I can't give money to Elon ever again. I can't fund America's descent into fascism. I could not live with myself. |
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| ▲ | Marsymars an hour ago | parent [-] | | > I'm very much on the left, and I honestly like the design of the Cybertruck. (I know this puts me in a minority.) It is disappointing that the original "unibody" design was abandoned. The new design where the body panels just randomly fall off is silly. Function should drive form. The design would be cool if it was for a cool function. Say you have a beautifully-made, expertly-weighted tack hammer. That looks cool on your work bench and works well. If you refashion the hammer into a kitchen spoon, it looks dumb in the kitchen and works poorly for stirring a pot. | | |
| ▲ | scottyah 13 minutes ago | parent [-] | | It is designed for cool functions, although a pure exoskeleton turned out to be infeasible the thick panels still help with side crashes, helping it get the Top Safety Pick+ award (equal/better than the competition other than "safety belt reminders). The steel makes it great for driving in places with branches and grocery cart/door dings. The panels also don't just "randomly" fall off, there was a period of time where the manufacturing process didn't follow the spec on applying the adhesive so ice crystals would form and degrade the adhesion. |
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| ▲ | speed_spread 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > it's not to my taste It's not just you, it's universally tasteless and that's the point: It is a contrarian vehicle. In an age where the Internet has flattened subcultures into surface phenomenons, the only remaining way to publicly distance yourself from normality is by making patently, obviously bad decisions and using the backlash to further fuel your ego. |
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| ▲ | spacecadet 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| While largely true, that trucks have adorned the comforts of luxury cars, most are running 6' beds. This largely ignores the evolution of the truck and the job site. My family operates contracting and excavating businesses that operating in all manner of weather and terrain, no one is carrying loads in their truck beds anymore... its not even legal most places unless you convert to a dump bed... Whats in their trucks? Well, a crew cab occasionally is used for car pooling workers, where they all park their vintage beater trucks at the business... Sometimes weather sensitive tools, or job related items, documents, you can just throw these in a glove box... The bed usually has a gas pump for refilling remote equipment. Cones and other safety shit. Sand hoppers for plowing. Yes they also use these "luxury" trucks to plow. The thing is... These people are making decent salaries... my direct relatives are multi-millionaires who still pick up a welder, a hammer, a shovel. Im see alot of assumptions about why trucks evolved the way they did, who owns them, and what for... I would argue the "luxury faker" is a very small crowd, one that likely moved to the cybertruck... and despite the trucks looking modernized, are beaten to pulp over long service lives. Now, go get in a modern tractor, dump truck, or excavator. They are also all AC, Radios, Computers, Leather Seats, etc... People want to be comfortable. |
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| ▲ | psunavy03 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I mean, in certain circles online, people were literally calling Cybertrucks "Swasticars." Not the greatest for marketing. |
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| ▲ | catigula 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| I feel like kudos for making a public eye-sore merely because people typically don't make public eye-sores is a bit missing the point. |
