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catigula 4 hours ago

>A pickup truck should just be max utility, especially if you're a manufacturer making your first one

I don't think this is actually true, most pickup trucks aren't designed for maximum utility. They're designed to sell a lifestyle.

everdrive 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Heartbreaking but true. The most popular pickups today are not the most useful pickups. There are no more basic utilitarian pickups any longer, at least in the US.

Pickups are a little bit interesting in this regard. For any given model (eg: Tacoma, Frontier, etc.) the more premium the truck, the worse it is at being a truck. Each feature you add reduces its payload, and in the case of the Frontier, you could drop from a 6' bed with ~1,600 lbs of payload on the base model all the way down to a 5' bed with ~900 lbs of payload for the most premium offroad model.

vablings 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I would be willing to say that a small Japanese kei truck is more than the average American would ever need for hauling furnishings, appliances and lumber. If you really need something bigger renting a trailer or truck is dirt cheap

Ostrogoth an hour ago | parent | next [-]

>If you really need something bigger renting a trailer or truck is dirt cheap

It’s neither convenient nor cheap to rent a trailer in much of the US. Major cities have options, rural areas less so. Full disclosure I have a mid-sized pickup, but I recently looked into renting a trailer for a landscaping project that was above the weight limit for my truck. First issue I ran into was that there were not any trailers available for rent anywhere near my location. Second issue was that after factoring in driving distance + rental cost + dump fees, it was ~ the same price just to pay a junk company to haul the materials…and it was not cheap. Anecdotally, my pickup was cheaper than most other vehicle options at the time I bought it, my commute is short (so fuel economy is less an issue), and as a homeowner I use the bed to haul something at least once/month (Unfortunately kei trucks weren’t available at the time). So the cost/benefit/convenience factor of owning a truck over renting a trailer works for me. YMMV.

PaulDavisThe1st 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I found out a couple of years ago that you cannot rent a vehicle and use it to tow. This is a major barrier to the argument "when you need to tow <X> just rent a vehicle that can do that" (an argument I would like to support).

everdrive an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I found this out recently as well, and it's really interesting since it must mean that a lot of these "just rent a truck when you need to tow" claims must have been unfounded.

catigula 38 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

https://www.enterprisetrucks.com/truckrental/en_US/towing.ht...

jeff_skj 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Except most people also use trucks as daily driver vehicles. You can't exactly fit the wife and kids in a kei. Sure you could also own a car for that but now I need to own/store 2 vehicles instead of one.

olyjohn 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Yeah let's not pretend every family with a truck only owns one vehicle. Most families already have a second car anyways. Especially people spending $60k+ on a truck.

bluGill 2 hours ago | parent [-]

That is my argument for EVs as well. One truck with an ICE for take the whole family on long trips, or towing. Then an EV for everyone else - whoever is making the long trip that day gets the truck.

Truck works well for those role because it can do so much. It isn't the best for most of those, but it can do them.

rjrjrjrj 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The Ford Maverick is pretty utilitarian, inasmuch as any new US vehicle is.

The Slate is utilitarian, but remains to be seen if it actually ships. https://www.slate.auto/en

throwaway173738 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I decide if a truck is utilitarian by whether I have to flag a 2x4x8 in the bed or not.

olyjohn 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I decide if you need to have a step on your bumper because the truck is too high to get anything in and out of it. Lowering my truck made it way easier to load and unload.

foobarian 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I can fit one of those into my Ford Fiesta with the hatch closed. :smh:

PaulDavisThe1st 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Closed and latched? I find that hard to believe (used to own an 80s Honda Civic which would allow "closed but not latched" for 4x8 sheet goods) ...

foobarian 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Yes, with room to spare. I assume the grandparent was referring to a stud, i.e. the nominal "2x4" that is 1.5x3.5inches in cross section and 8 feet long :-) Sadly I cannot fit 4x8 sheet goods though I haven't tried very hard. I can definitely fit them if I ask nicely for a lengthwise cut, so I end up with 2' wide 8' strips. Those I can fit and close the hatch.

red-iron-pine 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

these trucks are still a thing; Toyota sells a 10k stripped down work truck for places like Thailand

https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a45752401/toyotas-10000...

wouldn't fly due to chicken tax + other safety and emissions. they plan on selling em in Mexico tho, so maybe we'll see some float up...

shortstuffsushi 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> There are no more basic utilitarian pickups any longer, at least in the US.

What makes you say this? The F-150 series has a pretty serviceable option in their XL trim. 8ft bed, 4x4, "dumb" interior (maybe not, looking at their site looks like the most recent is iPad screen, sigh) - but what else would you look for to call it utilitarian?

You're right that each feature is further limiting, but I would argue premium and utilitarian are reaching for opposite goals.

bryanlarsen 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

A F-150 from the previous century is much utilitarian than today's F-150's. The bed height and rail height are much more reasonable heights -- you can reach into the bed from the side.

sejje 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Manual gearbox, triangle vent windows, engine bay room, repairability, bench seats.

everdrive 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I wish it had even fewer features, but I take your point.

enaaem 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The most utilitarian truck is probably the Hilux champ and it’s not even sold in the US.

a4isms 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Lifestyle sells.

I drive a wagon. Of course wagon owners talk about the utility. And yet, you can buy a wagon with a twin-turbo V8 engine. What's the "sportwagon" segment all about? Certainly not going to Home Depot to buy four toilets for the new house, it's about putting your $15,000 Cannondale Black Ink MTB on the roof and swanking up to the trailhead.

switchbak 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's about drag racing on the way to your Jiu-Jitsu club with the baby seats in the back. And still being able to fit that new vanity from Home Depot in on your way back home!

catigula 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The brain is a confabulation/justification engine.

In reality ideal utility is likely found in the shape of a 2008 Toyota Camry and a U-Haul truck rental when necessary.

pixl97 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You may underestimate how much consumption some people in the US have and why a Camry wouldn't work. Hell, for the amount of hobby project stuff I bring home on a bi-weekly basis a car just doesn't cut it. Then again, I'm not sure where I fit in the average population.

2 hours ago | parent [-]
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adw 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

More like a 2001 Renault Clio. Camrys are already bloatware.

red-iron-pine 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

safety standards, gas milage, and a bunch of other factors have improved dramatically since 2008.

buy yourself a gently used 2019 Camry

3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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giglamesh 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> ... most pickup trucks aren't designed for maximum utility. They're designed to sell a lifestyle.

Yes, but that lifestyle can and sometimes does include actual needs for some of the utility. There is a great observation from Representative Marie Gluesenkamp Perez, a Democrat from Washington’s 3rd District in an NYT piece a couple of days ago. I included a perhaps too long quote in lieu of apologizing for the paywall.

> “Spreadsheets can contain a part of truth,” Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez told me. “But never all of truth.”

> Looking to illustrate this, I bought the recent book “White Rural Rage” and opened it more or less at random to a passage about rural pickup trucks. It cites a rich portfolio of data and even a scholarly expert on the psychology of truck purchasers, to make what might seem like an obvious point — that it’s inefficient and deluded for rural and suburban men to choose trucks as their daily driving vehicles. The passage never does explain, though, how you’re supposed to haul an elk carcass or pull a cargo trailer without one.

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/12/opinion/marie-gluesenkamp...

catigula 3 hours ago | parent [-]

If I mostly trim my hedges, but sometimes, very rarely, need to cut down small trees, am I best served by simply owning a hedge-trimmer and renting a chainsaw or other appropriate tool when necessary, or by buying a katana for both jobs?

Everybody knows why you bought the katana. We know you have a story to tell yourself, it's just not convincing.

pixl97 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> and renting a chainsaw or other appropriate tool when necessary,

I don't think most people realize how expensive and time consuming tool rental is.

This is where things also get kind of messy in the US. In manicured suburbs you probably don't need a chainsaw. But in older growth and places with larger lots you really do need one. If you wait till you need one after a big storm, you may travel 100 miles out of the storm damage to find one to rent or have to wait for weeks as your driveway is blocked and contractors are booked up.

For me the utility function is somewhere in between a car and a truck, hence why I have an SUV. I can carry the large boxes/items I seem to have at a regular basis. When I need something bigger I can rent a trailer to hook to it. Trucks themselves are way too expensive now, and I don't need that much capacity. A car would have me constantly renting or borrowing one from someone else (which I did when I owned a car and it was a pain in the ass).

zaphoyd 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

We recently moved to a more rural location that has needed more tools. It is shocking just how expensive and inconvenient it is to rent tools (and even vehicles to some extent) and just how much worse it is being even just a little bit rural.

The big box store in our town doesn't rent tools or vehicles. You have to drive 45-60 minutes to get to a store that does. This means the 4 hour rental prices (which for something like a wood chipper or chain saw might be sufficient for a lot of jobs) become nearly non-viable or highly stressful rushing through unfamiliar power equipment that really shouldn't be rushed.

A full day tool rental is often 1/3 to 1/2 of the price of a new mass market version of the tool. A week rental is almost always more. The tools are rarely in great shape. You are almost always way better off going to an estate sale or local marketplace and buying a used tool. If there is a job you end up doing 2-3 times or need for more than a week its even cost effective to just buy new ones. You save so much on labor doing things yourself that even with new tools you basically always come out ahead.

The best case is that you have a community run tool library that lets you check stuff out cheaply for a week and can have a relationship with the folks that run it. Similarly, getting to know the neighbors and being able to swap/borrow stuff. For vehicles this is a little more dicey because of liability & insurance issues.

We've definitely struggled with the vehicle for long and sheet goods. We really don't need a pickup truck and it would honestly be a hazard on skinny mountain roads... but we do need to move lumber, sheet goods, appliance sized things just enough that it's a pain without one. We settled on a midsized SUV with passable towing power (as an aside, EV power and control makes towing a breeze as long as your round trip fits in one charge). Renting a trailer is still annoying, but at least can be done close by. For larger orders delivery can sometimes be cost effective (vs renting a vehicle or buying and maintaining a truck) especially because places often subsidize delivery to win business.

pixl97 2 hours ago | parent [-]

>A full day tool rental is often 1/3 to 1/2 of the price of a new mass market version of the tool

For sure. I had to dig some post holes in limestone that was very hard. Rental was going to be $200 for a tool that would do it in a day.

Instead I went to harbor freight and bought a tool closer to $100 even though it took me a bit longer, and I get to keep the tool which is still working to this day.

Heh, and labor costs in the Austin area are off the hook. I did a project for around $5000 that a neighbor had a similar but smaller in scope project quoted for $21,000.

rationalist 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> I don't think most people realize how expensive and time consuming tool rental is.

Same with truck rentals.

brandonmenc an hour ago | parent [-]

People seriously underestimate how much trouble a pickup truck rental from U-Haul can be.

I’ve wasted so much time trying to track down which location near me has one available on the exact day I want to do major yard work. Often I have to reschedule my work or plan out super far in advance. Or take a day off during the week because everyone else also wants to rent trucks on the weekend. Then I’m running against the clock the whole time.

An extra $100-$200 a month car payment to have a truck instead of a crossover is totally worth it.