| ▲ | Sabinus 7 months ago |
| The war and the culturing of drug resistant bacteria can be ended sooner if Ukraine is provided with enough material to apply sufficient pressure to Russia to bring them to the table. |
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| ▲ | refurb 7 months ago | parent | next [-] |
| Look at the population of Russia and Ukraine. Even with endless material Ukraine is going to run out of a meat puppets long before Russia. |
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| ▲ | dralley 7 months ago | parent | next [-] | | Unless the Russian economy collapses first. The ruble has lost 10% of it's value in just the past week. Inflation on many items is near 70% despite interest rates currently being set at 21%. It's spiralling a bit recently due to a renewed wave of sanctions enforcement and tanking petroleum revenues. Now, that doesn't mean it will collapse, but it does mean they can't keep doing this forever. Number of soldiers available isn't the only factor that decides whether a nation can sustain a war. Plus their other geopolitical projects are starting to crumble a bit. See: current events in Syria. | | |
| ▲ | sergiomattei 7 months ago | parent | next [-] | | Isn’t this also a case of “the market can remain irrational for longer than you remain solvent”? | |
| ▲ | jiggawatts 7 months ago | parent | prev [-] | | I’m out the loop a bit… what’s going on in Syria that would affect the war in Ukraine? | | |
| ▲ | dralley 7 months ago | parent [-] | | Rebel groups launched an offensive against the Russian-backed Syrian government over the past 48 hours and have retaken a large chunk of territory near Aleppo. Russian military intervention is arguably the only reason the Syrian regime survived the civil war, but this time the Russian military has their own problems and can't intervene without stealing resources from their efforts in Ukraine. |
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| ▲ | NicoJuicy 7 months ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It's Russia that requires Africans for it's jobs and North Koreaans/Syrians for the war ( with very high pay) Invading leads to more casualties than defending. | |
| ▲ | AnimalMuppet 7 months ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Not if they have enough materiel to kill at a 4:1 ratio or better. | | |
| ▲ | consumer451 7 months ago | parent | next [-] | | Exactly. Ukraine has claimed a recent 6:1 ratio, and Moscow has found it necessary to bring in reinforcements from North Korea. | | |
| ▲ | dralley 7 months ago | parent | next [-] | | Ukraine doesn't claim a 6:1 ratio overall. Only in certain parts of the front line during certain periods of fighting is it so lopsided, such as the recent Russian attempts to retake Kursk or the early assaults on Bakhmut and Vulhedar. An optimistic estimate for the overall war would be more like 2.5 to 1, but realistically it's probably lower. Equipment kills are another story. | | |
| ▲ | AtlasBarfed 7 months ago | parent [-] | | Russia is losing 1000+ a day. I get thee is propaganda, but it would be news is Ukraine was losing 400/day. The rate of Russian advance (that is, extremely slow) would imply the kill rations are very high in Ukraine's favor | | |
| ▲ | dralley 7 months ago | parent [-] | | You can't really imply kill ratios by the speed of the advance, it doesn't work like that. | | |
| ▲ | AtlasBarfed 7 months ago | parent [-] | | Go look at the history of WWI. That is the historical analogue of the conflict. | | |
| ▲ | dralley 7 months ago | parent [-] | | No, it's not. Fast advances often mean that the defender pulled back their forces, not that the defender got destroyed. | | |
| ▲ | AtlasBarfed 7 months ago | parent [-] | | Fast advances? Who is talking about fast advances? What is happening is almost trench warfare. Ultra-slow front advancement, ultra-high casualties. Now, maybe what you mean is when Ukraine has successes they are rapid and wide ranging like the Donbas counterassault about a year ago or the Kursk incursion. But Russia has advanced only about 30 miles in the last year, tops. All while going through multiple rounds of conscription, mercenaries, and now North Korean shock troops. The ultra slow front advancement combined with massive numbers of poorly trained conscripts means: really high casualty rate for the gained territory. My sources are generally the UK media. TimesRadio is pretty rah-rah Ukraine, but other sources generally back up the fundamental claim: Russia is lose 1000-1500/day to gain really small amounts of territory. For russia to win they'll need to progress another 200 miles, which at this rate means 2-3 million dead russians or more. Russian advances are enabled by artillery shells. If the artillery losses mount and production issues appear in shell production, then suddenly the Russian ground forces will be sitting ducks and Ukraine will counterattack very effectively. |
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| ▲ | geysersam 7 months ago | parent | prev [-] | | Bizarre propaganda. |
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| ▲ | refurb 7 months ago | parent | prev [-] | | It's not like Russia is some undeveloped country - they have as advanced materiel as any major power. How would Ukraine ever achieve that kind of kill ratio? | | |
| ▲ | consumer451 7 months ago | parent | next [-] | | By Russia using "meat wave tactics." Here is a sober assessment of the strategy from Anders Puck Nielsen. He is an extremely well informed source on these matters. I highly recommend all of his videos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8ZPbnVqHrY | | |
| ▲ | NicoJuicy 7 months ago | parent [-] | | Only checked the first few minutes ( if I even got there). His opinion is really bad. Listen to his first minutes and compare it with my "couch" take vs his "well informed" opinion. --- Russia doesn't have unlimited resources and they are not grinding the meat assault to let the west fear. Russia needs to pay a lot to get it going, their resources are getting depleted, things that were already known ( eg. Demographics). Why they are so willing to conquer Ukraine is simply because they went to add x million people to attack and fix that to prepare for a next meat grinding war. Russia hasn't got unlimited resources. They need external help. They are not going all in. They don't even enforce military conscription in the well known areas. They are just down the rabbit hole now and we just need to support Ukraine more. --- now listened to it completely --- He's even wrong about why the west is funding Ukraine. Most of them want Ukraine to win, definitely neighbors of Ukraine that know Russia, or look at how the Netherlands is supporting Ukraine. The rest, thinks at least there should be enough funds to Ukraine to deplete Russia from their capable men or their tanks ( which is actually happening) and helps NATO. I actually hope that now NATO has expanded to what was expected, that military aid increases. The ones that want to stop funding Ukraine are the dumbest people in politics and believe in fairy tales that Russia claims or are literally Russian funded. |
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| ▲ | AtlasBarfed 7 months ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | We are approaching the third year and you're unaware to the degree the Russian military industrial complex was revealed as a fraud? The NATO concern with Russia in a conventional conflict isn't whether they would win, it's if they would win so convincingly that Russia would immediately escalate to nukes. | | |
| ▲ | refurb 7 months ago | parent [-] | | > We are approaching the third year and you're unaware to the degree the Russian military industrial complex was revealed as a fraud? It's very hard to square that conclusion based on the fact that it's Ukraine that has consistently lost territory during this war, save for a couple offensives that ground to a halt pretty quickly. This war will end with Ukraine losing a significant chunk of it's territory. | | |
| ▲ | AtlasBarfed 7 months ago | parent [-] | | Russia has gained territory slowly using meat waves. It has possibly taken 500,000 casualties gaining only 18 miles of front in the last year. During the war Ukraine has regained territory in fast maneuvers and large amounts when Russia's defenses falter. Ukraine has utterly defeated Russia's Navy, its has neutralized its armor, fights on peer or better with the air force. What is necessary for Ukraine to achieve near total victory is to neutralize Russia's artillery and disrupt supply lines and staging inside Russia, which the NATO rules of engagement only just allowed. It's my general opinion that while all of the Donbas region may not be reclaimed which isn't of great value except as a buffer zone, it is still possible for Ukraine to recapture Crimea, which is inevitable if the Ukrainians defeat the Russians across the Dnieper because of Russia's functional loss of its navy. | | |
| ▲ | refurb 7 months ago | parent [-] | | > It has possibly taken 500,000 casualties gaining only 18 miles of front in the last year. That seems highly unlikely considering the over inflated Ukraine estimate of Russian casualties is 700,000 for the whole war. More trust sources estimate total Russian casualties for the war under 500,000, so I doubt one battle was 500,000. |
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| ▲ | NicoJuicy 7 months ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Russia has ego projects funded with oil revenue. Their 5th stealth fighter => isn't stealth Their naval fleet => literally has tow boats following them on missions Newest tank => T90 => barely build... 60? Practically all their tanks are build a long time ago. The engine was a bad engine copy of the Germans. Nuclear arsenal => they forgot maintenance like with everything else Rocket missles => yes, it was still used a lot. Not reusable and was still based on a design from the 1960's. Lada => taken over by Renault to make it profitable ------ Sure, during the cold war, Soviet Union was powerful, their facilities were all funded by the US during the world war, this is where they got the tech ( see reason of Holodomor). But it's only 2 modern cities and the rest is shitty to stay in. Additionally, their invasion is just similar like the past. It ain't tech, it's literally meat grinder tactics. | | |
| ▲ | Nexxxeh 7 months ago | parent | next [-] | | There was a wild video of a Russian group mocking a tank and then discovering it was a Russian T-90 and its reactive armour was literally a construction brick. https://old.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1gt1... They also had to chase their latest stealth prototype drone (S-70) over Ukraine with a pseudostealth fighter (Su-57 Felon, one of only about 30) to blow it up themselves. Almost certainly due to the drone being so faulty they tried to destroy it. They didn't even do that effectively, the large intact portions surviving and being collected for UA intelligence. https://www.airandspaceforces.com/why-russia-shot-down-s-70-... Russia couldn't manage to get naval superiority against Ukraine, a country with effectively no functional navy vessels. | |
| ▲ | geysersam 7 months ago | parent | prev [-] | | They're still producing more artillery shells than Europe and US are able to provide Ukraine. That seems to be the determining factor in this war. | | |
| ▲ | NicoJuicy 7 months ago | parent [-] | | These tactics have all been observed. Shells don't have a long range, bodies either. The use shells because of terror tactics and because they barely have accurate stuff. Blow up oil and their economy will collapse. Funding military and payouts will decrease. No money for nuclear stuff. No troops to interfere in other countries. War stops and their arsenal won't receive any maintenance anymore for the next 20 years. Moscow's influence decreases, Russia collapses and will be split up in different countries again. One of them will be high oil production, the rest will benefit from passthrough payments ( instead of nothing before) and will be partially deserted as it always has been. | | |
| ▲ | geysersam 7 months ago | parent [-] | | I have no idea what point you are making. Russia is winning the war, oil prices are still high, the new US government is ready to negotiate and stop arming Ukraine. There are no signs Russia is about to collapse. > The use shells because of terror tactics and because they barely have accurate stuff. They're using shells because 80% of casualties in the war are caused by artillery. | | |
| ▲ | aguaviva 7 months ago | parent | next [-] | | There are no signs Russia is about to collapse. Imminently, no. And it doesn't need to collapse outright. It just needs to become sufficiently clear to whomever is currently gearing up to take over after Putin croaks/fades in a few years -- that its projected general condition (as affects their own wealth and comfort) for the next 10-20 years or so will start to look very blighted indeed, if it doesn't rapidly change course on its optional (and very, very costly) neocolonial project. | |
| ▲ | NicoJuicy 7 months ago | parent | prev [-] | | You don't know that Russia has to sell it's oil under the official oil price because of sanctions? Other: Euro/dollar vs. Rubble NATO added a bunch of strong countries ( eg. Finland) CSTO => failed Inflation rate in Russia, eg. Food Decreased military exports abroad The requirement to get help from Iran and North Korea Depleting tanks Unemployment rate in Russia ( overheating of the economy) And weirdly enough, the high rates companies has to pay their employees I'm more amazed why you would even think Russia is even winning. Ah, yes, the new government. Who wants a Trump tower in Russia. Lol |
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| ▲ | dralley 7 months ago | parent | prev [-] | | Russia is an underdeveloped country. 1/4 of the population doesn't have indoor plumbing. If you don't live in St. Petersburg or Moscow, your standard of living is just not very comparable to the rest of the developed world. It's like if NYC and Seattle were the only two major American cities and the rest of the country was basically Appalachia. "The Russian military is large and modern, but the modern part isn't large and the large part isn't modern" is a basically true statement. They have a handful of modern platforms for prestige reasons but in very small quantity, and a large quantity of leftover Soviet trash. And even the "modern" stuff is several tiers below Western kit. |
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| ▲ | ashoeafoot 7 months ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | So it builts robots. Ratio is already 5/1. Never give in
Giving in got us here! | |
| ▲ | protocolture 7 months ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yeah but look at that border with NATO that Putin keeps manned. He cant just dump his entire military into ukraine like a lot of pundits predicted. | | |
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| ▲ | bdjsiqoocwk 7 months ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | spiderfarmer 7 months ago | parent | next [-] | | They should not. It’s not their war. Instead, just give Ukraine what they need to defend themselves. | | |
| ▲ | consumer451 7 months ago | parent | next [-] | | It is utterly insane to me that this is still a conversation. Ukrainians have been sacrificing their lives to defend us all from Russian imperialism, and all they ask for is weapons. It's almost three years on now, and yet here we are. POV: EU/US dual citizen, in EU for the last 8 years. | |
| ▲ | AtlasBarfed 7 months ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Ukraine is fighting a war that prevents direct NATO Russia conflict on the polish border. Russia has publicly stated their geopolitical goal is to reestablish control of the Suwalto gap. That is in Poland I believe. An invasion of Poland prompts all NATO members to declare war and attack Russia. With the state of Russia's armed forces, NATO would devastate Russian armed forces within a week to the point, the Russian regime would not be able to defend itself from internal threats. That would imply nukes | | |
| ▲ | spiderfarmer 7 months ago | parent [-] | | I absolutely sympathise with Ukraine and want them to win, but for now all the talk about Russia attacking Nato is just talk. Nato is a defensive alliance, nothing more. To preemptively attack Russia because we think they might attack us, is not what the alliance was set up to do. | | |
| ▲ | aguaviva 7 months ago | parent | next [-] | | For now all the talk about Russia attacking Nato is just talk Its regime is already attacking NATO -- at least from what more or less officially amounts to NATO's perspective: Russian acts of sabotage may lead to NATO invoking Article 5, says BND chief - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42276160 Just not in any old school, "tanks across the Vistula" sense. But in a modern 21st century sense. | |
| ▲ | AtlasBarfed 7 months ago | parent | prev [-] | | Russia attacked Ukraine. Ukraine had agreements from the West that we would defend them if Russia ever invaded. We are in violation of those agreements technically even with the level of support that was shown, which we provided as assurances for Ukraine surrendering its nuclear capability. You're conflating attack and defense, framing the West funding of Ukraine's defense as an attack. You are downplaying the aggression that Putin has showed in multiple occasions in defiance of international law. It's hard to see you as anything but a Russian troll using classic doublespeak and misdirection typical of Russian intelligence services. |
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| ▲ | xcrunner529 7 months ago | parent | prev [-] | | Ha yeah and hitler would have just stayed in Germany. The pure ignorance of foreign affairs you are publicly showing is astounding. | | |
| ▲ | spiderfarmer 7 months ago | parent [-] | | If they step into Nato territory it's obviously a different discussion. If you want to call me ignorant for stating obvious facts, you do you. |
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| ▲ | Sabinus 7 months ago | parent | prev [-] | | Poland should send troops, to man the border against Belarus. Not too escalatory, and frees up more Ukrainian resources. | | |
| ▲ | voytec 7 months ago | parent [-] | | Polish army, border guards and police are stationing on Poland-Belarus border since 2021 as there's a constant conflict. Putin's goons are driving middle-eastern refugees to the border and are trying to forcibly push these people to Polish side. Last year, Belarusan Mi-8 military helicopters flew at low altitude some 2km into Poland's territory. In June, Polish soldier was stabbed to death. |
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| ▲ | ramon156 7 months ago | parent | prev [-] |
| I don't like dabbling in politics, but can anyone confidently say "give them x and y and this war is over" Because I would have no idea how to determine what would be needed to bring peace |
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| ▲ | AtlasBarfed 7 months ago | parent | next [-] | | If a couple squadrons of modern NATO aircraft were employed, It would mean total air superiority, All Russian tanks Artillery antiaircraft and apcs destroyed within a week, absolutely no supplies going to the troops on the ground. | | |
| ▲ | ranger207 7 months ago | parent [-] | | I'm a strong supporter of giving more material to Ukraine, but unfortunately a couple squadrons wouldn't make much of a dent. For air supremacy where you can do whatever you want in the air, you need to destroy enemy air defenses; even if you don't have complete air supremacy you need to create localized air supremacy to do missions. SEAD and DEAD (suppression and destruction of enemy air defenses, respectively) is extremely difficult and there's really one one country that has the means and requirement to do so, the US. Currently most aircraft in Ukraine on both sides are engaging in standoff attacks because getting anywhere near the front exposes you to massive amounts of air defenses. If the US could donate several squadrons, including specialized electronic warfare craft, and could train Ukrainian pilots on SEAD/DEAD then there'd be a chance to roll back Russian air defenses, but that's unlikely to happen even in the best case scenario. It's important to keep sending planes to Ukraine to prevent them from losing the air war, but I doubt there's anything that can be done for Ukraine to win the air war | | |
| ▲ | AtlasBarfed 7 months ago | parent [-] | | The squadrons I'm suggesting who would supply or contract would be modern us planes, which to your point are the ones would be necessary to gain complete destruction of air defenses. The question was what weapon would significantly turn the tide. So we are actually kind of in in agreement. |
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| ▲ | NicoJuicy 7 months ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Give Ukraine rockets to attack all of Russian oil revenue. Then they can't fund it anymore. Russia also sells oil below profitable internally and to friendly countries to keep them happy. So you don't need to destroy them all of the time. Their oil companies are already non profitable. The main problem here is that the US doesn't want oil prices to rise and that's why it's barely done by Ukraine. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/09/27/gazprom-drops-from... The economy is on the brink of disaster, it's almost all war fueled now. Russian military capacity is evading day by day ( tanks, men, ... ). It won't be a threat to NATO anymore in 2-3 years, if it's funded by domestic means ofc. Putin won't attack with nucleair missles. The problems would increase a lot ( eg. Because of the nuclear assured destruction, china would stop immediately helping Russia). Probably Russia would collapse further like in 1991. | |
| ▲ | nradov 7 months ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | There are no guarantees in war but giving Ukraine sufficient advanced weapons to kill a few million more Russians would likely bring peace. Russian manpower reserves are deep but not unlimited. And even if that doesn't work it will at least weaken Russia enough to significantly reduce the threat to our NATO allies in Eastern Europe. Don't think that Russia will stop with conquering Ukraine. They'll keep advancing as long as they have the means. | | |
| ▲ | nightowl_games 7 months ago | parent [-] | | From what source do you base your certainty? For example, Jeffrey Sachs has a very different opinion than you. From whom can I hear the steel man case for your statements? | | |
| ▲ | nradov 7 months ago | parent | next [-] | | I claimed no certainty. As I stated above, nothing in war is certain. Jeffrey Sachs is just some guy. He has no more expertise in this area than I do so you can take whatever opinion you like. | | |
| ▲ | nightowl_games 7 months ago | parent [-] | | Are you serious? Jeffrey Sachs is not just some guy... I think he's about as qualified in geopolitics as anyone can be. | | |
| ▲ | nradov 7 months ago | parent [-] | | Nah. Sachs is just an economist (i.e. a practitioner of pseudoscience). He has no particular expertise in geopolitics. But he speaks with great confidence, which some credulous people mistake for actual expertise. |
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| ▲ | AtlasBarfed 7 months ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Russia cannot issue a general conscription, their regime would collapse. You can see this because they are choosing mercenaries and ethnic conscription, and north Korean soldiers. Russia was already suffering a demographic cliff, this was effectively the last generation of men that could be thrown at a war. Russia is a racial hegemony of the Caucasian Rus ruling over central Asian ethnic 'stans. Think chechnya and Georgia at a minimum. So if too many Russians are conscripted and die, they cannot be used to keep the other provinces in line. The entire Russian state collapsed. Consider that each conscription round entails as much or more population flight from the country, do you raise 100,000 soldiers, 250,000 more flee the country. Jeffrey Sachs is an economist and he's been criticizing the war for the entire time , repeating points that I'm pretty clearly are direct Russian propaganda parroting, but fine one mans propaganda is another mans opinion. Putin has shown the usual authoritarian contempt for peace, treaty, and diplomacy. Negotiating a cease fire at this point is appeasement, "peace in our time" foolishness. Putin thinks Europe is weak and cowardly, and now he thinks the US is working in his interests and will not honor article 5 of NATO. | |
| ▲ | TiredOfLife 7 months ago | parent | prev [-] | | From everything russia has been doing for the past 35 years |
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| ▲ | bdjsiqoocwk 7 months ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | yieldcrv 7 months ago | parent [-] | | In my experience, even Russians that are avoiding Russia have the mindset that the US/West pissed Putin off and this is the explanation for anything that befalls Ukraine, with of course the idea that Ukraine and the US can end it by giving Putin the taken territory as if its a troll toll pervasive victim blaming that never acknowledges the choice that the aggressor made, its his “special military operation” | | |
| ▲ | Schiendelman 7 months ago | parent [-] | | It doesn't matter what they think. It only matters if they can't afford to eat. Shell them until they can't and they will stop; it's really irrelevant how they justify it to themselves. Failing to make this choice was the singular point that could have prevented World War II. Destroying Russia's ability to make war is the only way to prevent World War III. | | |
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