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“I just chose words carefully”(unsung.aresluna.org)
296 points by zdw 3 hours ago | 81 comments
_jackdk_ 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I wonder if at any point during writing, the heroic author of that Super Metroid guide learned that "missiles" are not spent "missles", and decided to own the mistake rather than reword the entire guide.

Also, the font used for the monospace examples in the post is a great kick to the nostalgia. Which one is it? It reminds me of https://int10h.org/oldschool-pc-fonts/fontlist/font?ibm_vga_...

mananaysiempre 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Judging by the lowercase “m” it’s the 8x16 variation[1] and not the 9x16 one you linked, but otherwise yes, looks like the plain old VGA font? (Incorrectly displayed, as the site points out: the VGA didn’t have square pixels in either of those modes.) The site uses (AVIF) images in place of text, but it’s like 15 minutes to write a program that typesets an ASCII file in a given monospace bitmap font and writes out the result as say a PPM (and I’m sure ImageMagick can do it if you’d rather dig through docs than program), so this doesn’t seem to require any further explanation?

[1] https://int10h.org/oldschool-pc-fonts/fontlist/font?ibm_vga_...

EGreg 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think you meant "spelt" rather than spent. A but ironic, all things considered.

firecall 14 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

And there I was wondering about used missiles!

Apparently, I googled, “expended ordnance” is the term.

card_zero an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Muphry's law, innit

fwipsy 21 minutes ago | parent [-]

oh ironny

zdragnar an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Now I'm wondering if you meant to use but instead of bit intentionally or not... I'm not great with subtle humor in writing.

kibwen 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> learned that "missiles" are not spent "missles"

I choose to believe that the author was channeling the spirit of Noah Webster as a deliberate champion of phonetic spelling reform.

somat an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Or Andrew Jackson approaching the problem from the other end.

“It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word.”

As a rather, well... "creative" speller I blame Webster for locking things down and ruining it for the rest of us.

jimmydddd 19 minutes ago | parent [-]

I few years ago I saw a TV interview where some gen-z kid confidently stated: "the dictdionary is supposed to reflect how I talk, not the other was around."

eru 2 minutes ago | parent [-]

That's actually how many of the dictionary people see themselves.

saghm an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'd argue that "le" is not really phonetic to how people pronounce words ending in that; "missils" would be more phonetic

eru an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Should be missels then?

rkagerer 22 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

They're where they keep the nuclear wessels.

rmunn 28 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Let's settle the argument by all agreeing on mussels instead, and enjoy a nice seafood dish with garlic and a white wine sauce. Delicious.

card_zero 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

  This might potentially
  rejuvenate the writing
  by disrupting habitual
  patterns, which forces
  more original choices.
cottsak an hour ago | parent [-]

Could be a saving grace in the age where the robots come up with all the copy.

scott_weber an hour ago | parent | next [-]

And here I at first thought the direction the original post was going was "here's how I got a LLM to do this automatically". Seems like it would not be so difficult. Might still be be a win over their innate dispositions.

nvme0n1p1 14 minutes ago | parent [-]

Tom 7 did something like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y65FRxE7uMc

> BoVeX gives us a controlled tradeoff between these two states. By changing how much it costs for the text to be semantically wrong, we have a dial that allows us to smoothly interpolate between Lorem Epsom and Donald Knuth.

someguyiguess an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Robots would excel at writing that sort of copy I’d assume. (I haven’t tested it but doubt an LLM couldn’t handle that)

DoctorOetker 34 minutes ago | parent [-]

"perhaps it would be best to let the browsers do it on screens, and typesetting software for printed materials, since they have access to the font, size, text region boundaries, it comes at the small cost that users don't actually get to read what an author wrote, but increasingly this is an LLM anyways, if its a website or legal contract alike"

sho_hn 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There's a similar anecdote Gillian Anderson recently revealed during an interview on the X-Files, saying Chris Carter had an OCD-like habit to write dialog to conform to certain text layout preferences (no widows[1]) in the script, which made for the show's distinctive style of dialog cadence.

1 = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widows_and_orphans

consumer451 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Here is the interview where she mentions it, with the correct timestamp, backed-up just enough to give it context.

https://youtu.be/d3bCel607lQ?t=1162

diurnalist 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I also saw that interview, then out of curiosity I tried to find any evidence of this. There are some fan sites with ostensibly original X-Files scripts out there[1]. Looking through some written by Carter[2], I wonder if this is apocryphal, or if he was messing with her a bit.

[1]: https://www.boggsfiles.com/x-files-scripts-by-season/season-... [2]: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BQbfRmeq3FsajjYcEuqDHv0kf2B...

consumer451 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Wow, thanks for doing this digging. In the interview Gillian recounts Chris Carter saying "Look, no widows."

Maybe this was not the rule, but something that he had always strived for, so he felt the need to call it out as something cool?

fasterik an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm also reminded of how David Milch supposedly wrote a lot of Deadwood in iambic pentameter. I only learned about this after seeing the show, but I did pick up the "Shakespearean" feel of some of the dialogue. Constraints often force creativity.

xerox13ster 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I just realized I have nearly always avoided widows and orphans because it felt bad to write that way.

I wonder if I was ever taught to write this way and forgot, but I feel like I just learned the terms for the first time.

gyomu 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> At the same time, who among us didn’t nod in recognition at least, having once spent hours massaging a button UI string or a tooltip just to get it to fit under the certain width in a densely packed interface?

I did, and then I got a customer email about how they were using a display-zoom OS accessibility feature and things were truncated on their device. :')

See also: localizing your interface to German

someguyiguess an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Anyone who ever worked as a front end developer definitely felt this.

crooked-v 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yep, any concern about text widows and orphans in modern app layouts becomes irrelevant as soon as you have to localize.

Just build your layout so it can squash/stretch appropriately.

ivw 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

suckerpinch has a great video where he uses an LLM to do this same thing automatically

https://tom7.org/bovex/

hankbond 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

towards the end of the knuth version

> This presents a problem for the typical way that academic papers are written, which is to do all the work in a coffee-fueled fugue in the last few days before the deadline, then stay up all night writing the paper and finding citations for the pro-forma “related work” section which you did last but you know that the reviewers will insist upon

I have zero exposure to academia but chuckled because thats often what I do for blog posts :P

eru an hour ago | parent [-]

AIs these days are pretty good for the 'find prior art and related work' part I find. Of course, you should treat their output like that of an over-eager but somewhat unreliable intern.

ivanjermakov 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

No mention of Tom7's "Badness 0" by the author is the a crime!

uolmir 3 hours ago | parent [-]

He managed to create the ultimate version of form over function. All hail Lorem Epsom.

asddubs an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

and in latex too, not just monospace

brooke2k an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

this is only tangentially related to the article, but I've always found text justification strange. For me paragraphs with ragged edges are easier to read than justified paragraphs, because the irregular ending point helps me keep track of where I am. And justification can lead to some very odd-looking lines. So I've just never quite understood why it's so common in typesetting

JeremyMorgan 9 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I've never given this much thought, but I agree with you 100%.

After reading this article I thought "wow that's really impressive and I hate it".

For the same reasons you mention, and the words seem to "blend together" into a blob of text and losing my interest.

Still super impressive that people do this though.

cute_boi an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Same here, justified text feels difficult to read. And, I had academia where where students are forced to justify text....

fhub 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Two definitions that I had to look up.

* Widow: a short final line of a paragraph that gets stranded at the top of the next page or column.

* Orphan: a first line of a paragraph stranded at the bottom of a page or column.

Leonard_of_Q 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Those who lived through the (text-mode) WordPerfect era may remember 'widow and orphan protection' as being one of the features which was advertised for this program, i.e it could be set to either move that orphaned first line of a new paragraph to the next page or move a few extra lines or a whole paragraph to the next page to keep the widow company.

nosioptar 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Text mode WP is the reason I hate almost all word processors, everything else is tepid goat piss by comparison.

kkfkekfoked an hour ago | parent [-]

A bit over dramatic, but then again this HN.

schoen an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

I remember using WordPerfect in that era and never understanding what that feature was. It seemed implausible to me that it was actually protecting human widows and orphans, but I couldn't imagine what it had to do with text layout!

a_bonobo an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

The German is more crass: Hurenkind and Schusterjunge, translates to 'child of a whore' and 'shoemaker boy'. The child of a whore does not know where it comes from (who is their father), the short final line - the shoemaker boy is so poor, he does not know where he will end up (the short first line)

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurenkind_und_Schusterjunge

Edit: Also, LaTeX has specific penalties for those two: https://tex.stackexchange.com/a/32116

GeertB an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I've definitely been guilty of wording my multi-line doc comments in a way that would ensure they'd flow without awkward right margins. I would have a macro in vim that would call the fmt program to reflow the comment to 79 (later 98) characters, and then would iterate on word choice until the comments looked good. Not exactly right-justified, but no very ragged edge either.

BubbleRings an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I’ve been searching all over for a classic example of this that I first found around 1986, but I can’t locate it. It went on for a page or two, hand justified lines of maybe 40 characters, and then at the end of it he started making each line one character shorter, until the essay ended with these, the only words I remember from it:

dumb is

what I

think

this

end

is

!

If somebody can find it, share it here, I’m going to post it on my own website so it is saved for history. The last time I saw it was 5 or 10 years ago, and there was only one or two copies on the internet at that time, and now there seems to be none.

a_bonobo 8 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

You may be thinking of one of the poems of Christian Morgenstern? He used many tricks of formatting for jokes, famous example that fits with yours is The Funnels

https://www.babelmatrix.org/works/de/Morgenstern%2C_Christia...

ricardobeat 39 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Lewis Carrol was about 123 years ahead!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mouse%27s_Tale

I know the feeling - a lot of what I remember from the internet 20 years ago simply doesn't exist, and is unfindable on any search engine.

Boxxed an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I do this at work with the comments in my code. No one's ever noticed <thumbs-down-emoji>

yetanotherjosh 28 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In a very real sense this is exactly what LLM watermarking does. It "chooss the words carefully" in order to get text to "line up," but not with a visible margin... instead with a verifiable word distribution that proves the author knew a secret key.

CarVac 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

My dad told a story of a classmate in high school going through the effort of manually justifying text in a paper he wrote and being rewarded with a plagiarism accusation.

That was done by typing the whole paper twice, with added spaces the second time.

Funes- 32 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I must admit I've indulged in constrained writing when I was a teenager with the same purpose: circumventing spontaneous layout errors in Word when writing a paper for school, feeling a non-negligible amount of anxiety due to the deadline being around the corner. Terrifying.

ChannelFence an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Before LLMs, there were Markov chain bots. We used SeeBorg on IRC and over time its dictionary would fill up with whatever everyone said. Most of it was nonsense, but every once in a while it would say something perfectly timed. Almost everything It said making sense or not was hilarious though.

(source: https://github.com/allanlw/seeborg)

zellyn 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I remember reading Project Gutenberg email updates from Michael S. Hart in the mid to late 90s that were famously formatted like this.

It’s not too hard if you try, once you get in the groove :-)

lanyard-textile 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I have never felt more seen. I do this with comments all the time, rewording things to look nice on that 80 or 100 column mark.

kkfkekfoked an hour ago | parent [-]

And it shows! Wait, no, it doesn’t.

RobRivera 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Man. I kinda want to stress test my memory of super metroid before reading this guide. I could do a sub 3hr run through at 100% when I was a child.

I know I couldn't today.

underyx 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

So maybe it is possible to use alternate words in writing without compromising on writing quality after all.

epistasis 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I am filled with both a deep admiration and horror at this.

It's shockingly impressive.

cm2012 3 hours ago | parent [-]

And that it was done for an amateur game guide! This is like a legendary work of art.

stevage 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The part that horrifies me about this is the disincentive to revise any part of the text due to the flow-on effects.

techknight 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If I remember correctly, this is the tweet (and HN post) that brought it to the attention of the world back in 2021: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28651093

lukeh 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Ha, I quite enjoy doing this in comments or commit messages where practicable. But, that's just a few lines. :)

boothby 2 hours ago | parent [-]

It's a guilty pleasure of mine, spending a few minutes to clean up the aesthetics of docstrings and comments. I justify (heh) it to myself by catching unclear wording on this last cleanup pass -- and not taking it too far, obstrusifying for the aesthetic.

msephton 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

BITD I used Protext word processor on Atari ST (and later DOS/Windows PC) which automatically justified monospace text. It also had a pretty good dictionary (all in 512KB of RAM) and I remember doing this word dance to get lines to flow better.

Manual: https://www.atarimania.com/st/files/protext_5_04_arnor.pdf

Screenshot of manual section: https://jumpshare.com/share/jOnMu7M36AOEWyoL0QDl

domador 19 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I recently started reading a book sample for "Superintelligence" on Kindle, but stopped reading because all the text was noticeably justified, often with large gaps between words in many sentences. This was very annoying, especially since the option to disable justification was unjustifiably disabled.

Strangely enough, this same book doesn't have the same problem on other platforms.

initramfs 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I used to go to my computer laboratory in high school and at my mom's work to print out GameFAQ walkthroughs in the late 90s. They were excellent. I wrote this to remind myself of simple fun that's been superseded by grander ambitions, and sometimes I think I am wrong for choosing the latter.

oxonia 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Ye gods! The fact that this was done by hand... I have no words.

quanto 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A human victory by sheer willpower. I find the story oddly uplifting.

bywater 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Learned this the hard way explaining a bug fix; a single ambiguous term derailed an hour-long discussion.

semiinfinitely 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

this is the kind of content I come to hackernews for

gkoberger 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The Super Metroid guide is the kind of thing that AI will render obsolete, which makes me sad.

One of my favorite quotes is from Penn and Teller, "Sometimes magic is just someone spending more time on something than anyone else might reasonably expect". AI has shifted that a bit.

But lots of technology has rendered formerly human-lead things obsolete, and I'm sure we'll find new ways to express creativity.

LtWorf 3 hours ago | parent [-]

LaTeX has existed for a certain amount of years already.

gkoberger 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Sure but that's not what I was talking about. I was talking about the guy who wrote a 17,000 guide manually in monospace so that it was justified.

garciansmith an hour ago | parent [-]

But he didn't need to do that before either. He did it because he cared (in a weird way, sure). And some people will still care.

Video game text FAQs in general though were a dying genre before gen AI anyhow. Something I bemoan when I try to find one little piece of info and I'm faced with guides that are spread out on dozens of webpages for impressions of ads that I don't even see, or long videos that I have try to scroll through and take a ton of time just to find out if the person even went to the area I'm interested in. I sure miss Ctrl+F on GameFAQs.

gkoberger an hour ago | parent [-]

Yup that's my point, and maybe the bigger issue isn't if people care or not but rather... can we distinguish between "they cared" and "they spent 30 seconds on a prompt".

kkfkekfoked an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Lt. Worf tends to be a bit “shoot first ask questions never” be he was never this dense. C’mon.

brcmthrowaway an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There is some bizarre stuff that gets posted on weekends. It's like reading the New Yorker.

nathell 41 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Obligatory xkcd: https://xkcd.com/276/

imnotr0b0t 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Sometimes I think I'm too detail-oriented. Then I remember that someone once spent weeks manually rewording a game FAQ so the right margin would look pretty in a text file. And I feel better about myself...