| ▲ | dovin an hour ago |
| Just in case you were thinking of signing up directly with Moonshot to use the service, they appear to train even on API use: > We may use Content to provide, maintain, develop, support, and improve the Services, comply with applicable law, enforce our terms and policies, and keep the Services safe and secure. Customer who requires restrictions on the use of Customer Content for training or improving Moonshot AI models may contact Moonshot AI to discuss available enterprise arrangements or separate written agreements. Unless otherwise expressly agreed in writing, Customer Content may be used for the foregoing purposes. https://platform.kimi.ai/docs/agreement/modeluse#4-content |
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| ▲ | pietz 22 minutes ago | parent | next [-] |
| I'm usually not the overly paranoid one but shouldn't you assume that all Chinese labs are training on your data no matter what the T&C say? |
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| ▲ | bean469 a minute ago | parent | next [-] | | I would also assume the same for non-Chinese as well | |
| ▲ | Sevii 3 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I assume that all labs are training on any data they can get their hands on. | |
| ▲ | mattmaroon 9 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | I assume that of all of them as a basic security precaution. |
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| ▲ | theplumber 24 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I pretty sure OpenAI and Anthropic are doing the same or worse. Keep in mind that these companies are in the business of stealing IP work and reselling it to you with "safety checks" so asking if they use your usage data for training is a bit naive at best. At least the Chinese companies are more open and give back to the community compared with the "frontier" providers. |
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| ▲ | nikcub 19 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | > I pretty sure OpenAI and Anthropic are doing the same or worse. No they're not. It would end both companies if they were ever found to be doing that. Their terms are clear - if you use the coding plans they train in return. Enterprise and API, absolutely not. The argument here is that with the Chinese labs you have zero legal recourse. | | | |
| ▲ | enraged_camel 19 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | >> I pretty sure OpenAI and Anthropic are doing the same or worse. So in your opinion, they are training on your data even if you toggle the "don't train on my data" checkbox off? That's a bold assertion. | | |
| ▲ | jvuygbbkuurx 2 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Yes, their entire existence relies on training on copyrighted content without permission being ok. | |
| ▲ | eckelhesten 9 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Not the guy you responded to, but I would assume ”they keep it safe” somewhere in a cold storage. Just in case they decide to train on it in a later phase. Think of it as the Big Data hype some years ago. | |
| ▲ | inigyou 15 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Why wouldn't they? | | |
| ▲ | gpm 7 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Because the legal system does, in fact, have teeth. And those teeth actually deploy pretty readily. Especially when the people whose trade secrets you would be violating are gargantuan companies with enough resources that the cost of a lawsuit is a rounding error. | |
| ▲ | ghshephard 9 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Because the value obtained from doing so is unlikely to exceed the cost of the lawsuits if they were ever caught doing so. |
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| ▲ | entropicdrifter 9 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | lvillani an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Interesting. OpenRouter classifies the Moonshot provider as ZDR. I wonder whether they have a ZDR agreement or it's a misclassification on their part. |
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| ▲ | kzrdude 35 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | OpenRouter's ToS also seems to allow them to store your submitted prompts anyway, so privacy advocates would have to look elsewhere anyway, that's at least how I understand it (and it surprised me). | |
| ▲ | tigeroil 38 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | My gut feeling is that Moonshot are probably ZDR but their terms are excessively permissive. That said, I wouldn't rule out OpenRouter misclassifying - I've seen some providers where I'm fairly sure they have. | |
| ▲ | kingo55 31 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Why risk it either way if they provide weights for others to run this? Am I being overly cautious not wanting to send my data to Chinese companies? | | |
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| ▲ | onesandofgrain 32 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] |
| You think openai, anthropic, google, z and any of the others dont?
They do, if they say they dont, they do. Who wouldn't in this earth-shattering race. So Naive |
