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kilian 5 hours ago

The wallet app UI is the peak of Apple's 'single 20y/o in sf' design.

Anyone that has multiple card from the same bank (because, say, you have a personal account and a shared account with your partner) has to do the "pick between the two identical looking top 20px of cards" dance every time they use Wallet to pay for something. It is mind-boggling that the current UI persists.

Terretta 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The same is true in a physical card wallet.

An 80 year old with early onset challenges can work this wallet, pick a card, and then hold the phone to the reader at a store. It's all co-opting "familiar" actions for them, not tech-like, which means they can do it.

The biggest UX issue Apple has for that persona isn't the wallet, it's the lack of physical home button. Everyone in their 70s and up seems to be given pause every time they aren't on the screen they expect, and even to unlock it.

Invisible affordances rely on memory rather than sight trigger: not good.

lostlogin a minute ago | parent | next [-]

You can draw or write on a physical card, or add a scratch etc.

The Apple thing where you can switch cards is a weird interface too, even after you have done it a few times.

lode 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> The same is true in a physical card wallet.

Not at all.

In my physical wallet, those identical looking cards have different names on them, ie. <myfirstname mylastname> and <mylastname - partnerslastname> for joint accounts. I can also mark them up with a marker, or request a different picture from some banks.

In iOS I need to remember that the one ending with 0044 is mine, and 0073 is for our joint account. I have no way to add an alias or distinguish them otherwise. This is ridiculous.

the_other 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

My banks provide different colour options for their cards. All my digital cards differ, even from the same bank. The alternate colours helps within the banks/ apps as well as within Wallet, so it's not just an iOS "workaround".

I agree, it would be nice if Apple added stickers, but the problem isn't, IMO, as bad as you make out.

Exceptions include transport and concert tickets. Most of the time this doesn't cause problems because I'm standing with the other people I'm travelling/gigging with, and the agent scanning the tickets doesn't care about any names on them.

thdr 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> but the problem isn't, IMO, as bad as you make out.

But it is exactly as bad as they describe it. My bank doesn't provide color options for my cards, and there is no way to distinguish my two cards aside from the displayed four digits.

dpoloncsak 3 hours ago | parent [-]

...so you keep the one you primarily use in the front of your card slot in your wallet, and the one you don't use often behind your other cards.

Apple wallet solves this in a similar way, letting you arrange the order

thedougd 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I didn't know I could do that, so I just gave it a try.

First instinct, double tap the side button to open Wallet. Couldn't rearrange the cards there. So,I opened Settings app and couldn't rearrange the cards there. Finally, I opened the Wallet app and found I could rearrange cards there, though there's no visual indicators that I can. I accidentally changed my default card on the first attempt.

thdr 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yes, I can try to memorize the order of the cards. What a lousy workaround, and absolutely no reason to defend poor UI design.

Terr_ 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> My banks provide different colour options for their cards.

I'd like to take a moment to appreciate a tiny "UX feature" that punches above its weight: When multiple physical cards have different base-colors to their plastic, visible along the edge.

This reduces how often you even need to check the face of a card. With several in one sleeve/stack, you can slide out the one you want, knowing that (for example) blue is credit, green is debit, red is the shared family one etc.

With my kind of wallet, if I had to pick I'd rather customize the edge-color versus the faces.

Terretta 37 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I have no way to add an alias or distinguish them otherwise.

Seeing ones own name on a physical card also doesn't say say which joint account it is, yours or your partners (my partner and I each have Bank X, and each have a card for the other, which only has our own name, so, I feel your pain).

But, there is a way!

1. Tap the card, then tap the card[123] icon upper right and "Enter physical card information".

2. Either scan the card or type it in. Add the CVV while you're at it, seeing this later requires an additional FaceID.

3. Add "Description" for "Mine" or "Joint" or whatever. (KEY STEP)

When asked if you want to replace the card with same number say yes. It'll stay the same card, same transaction histories, etc., but now have a distinguishing description.

alistairSH 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That's not universally true.

I have a shared checking account with my spouse. Both my personal card and shared card are the same, save for the actual card number.

jermaustin1 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Same here. I'm in the US. I actually thought Credit/Debit cards had to have YOUR "full" name on them.

My wife and I share MANY accounts, and none of our cards have a "shared" name on it.

bombcar 2 hours ago | parent [-]

The only information sent to the card processor is the swipe (number expiration date) and sometimes the zip code and verification code on the back (if entered by hand).

jermaustin1 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

When my wife worked retail (20+ years ago), she had to verify the name on the card with the name on the machine with the name on their ID. They caught a decent number where the machine had a different name pop up than the card showed. And WAY more when comparing both to their ID.

They called her "The Bulldog" because of how vigilant she was about it. That store lead the region in CC Fraud. But soon they were the bottom of the region in shrink and loss prevention.

alistairSH an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I worked retail for a bit in high school. I tried to check card vs ID name for about a week before the manager told me to cut that shit out - too many wives, kids, etc using "dad's" card (this was 1994, so it was almost exclusively dad's card - I imagine that's changed in the last 30 years).

bombcar an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

At least in my experience the "name on the machine" back then was just read from the magstripe - I had access to a track 3 writer and had some fun copying my credit card info onto my driver license and swiping that.

chimeracoder an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

> The only information sent to the card processor is the swipe (number expiration date) and sometimes the zip code and verification code on the back (if entered by hand).

For credit cards? No, that's not necessarily true.

bdamm 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

First; have you heard of a sharpie?

Second; have you tried this with actual 80yr olds with early onset? Because I have. It doesn’t work, not even close. The steps require to get to that point are impossible for an 80yr old with early onset to even get close to. From trust, to setup, to even the stupid double-click with arthritic fingers, it’s fraught with roadblocks. And forget swiping.

This is a massive problem. The lack of care for options to equip seniors with usable iPhones is a massive problem right now. It is causing suffering both in the seniors and in the people who love them.

testfoobar 42 minutes ago | parent [-]

I feel truly sorry for older folks navigating apps/logins/passwords/etc.

Their experience is often utter shit.

Two examples:

1. Often older folks have their screen zoom maxed out for readability. Extreme zoom will often place critical fields and buttons off-screen - making the app useless.

2. Fingers and hands of older folks often tremble. So imagine holding in your trembling left hand your phone, while you're trying to hit a target with your trembling right finger. All while standing in line to get a discount on your groceries.

HoldOnAMinute 32 minutes ago | parent [-]

Because technology is about promotions and shareholders, and not about the USERS of the technology.

gortok 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

But it’s not true of a physical wallet. I have 8 locations in my bi-fold wallet I can place any given card, orientation-wise.

Lower left, lower right, upper left, upper right, inside left, inside right, dollar bills left, dollar bills right.

mh- 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Isn't the same true of the wallet on iPhone? I drag and drop reorder my cards as necessary. There's a fixed number of positions that fit above the "fold" (in the scrolling sense).

gortok 3 hours ago | parent [-]

No. I have only a vertical ordering available in Apple wallet. A card can be above another card or below another card. I have 3d physicality in a wallet that Apple wallet does not replicate.

mh- 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Ah, so two+ columns vs one.

forrestthewoods 28 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I can fully control the location of cards in my physical wallet.

The sorting of the Apple Wallet column is a mystery to me. I can probably control it. But I couldn’t tell you how. It also lacks tactile feel. So it’s just not the same. It’s a sloppy mess.

gortok 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Two columns vertically, but four columns deep in 3D space.

Forgeties79 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I don’t know about you but I can’t possibly remember what’s in every fold and pocket because most of the stuff is used infrequently but is still necessary to have on me (health insurance card, for instance).

I basically only know what’s in one or two places. I just end up rifling through everything until I find it

brandon272 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> The biggest UX issue Apple has for that persona isn't the wallet, it's the lack of physical home button.

I'm in my 40s and don't have much trouble with reaching Home by swiping up from the bottom. But anecdotally, when I observe a person who is 65+ operate their iPhones, 9 times out of 10 they experience problems swiping up from bottom to reach Home. The swipe up does nothing, presumably because they aren't starting the swipe from low enough on the screen.

delecti 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The hands of older people are also just literally less compatible with a capacitive touchscreen, because skin retains less moisture as we age. If you've ever seen an older person licking their finger before turning the page of a book, that's why.

ridgeguy 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Also, fine motor coordination often declines with age. Can make it hard to do a swipe or hit a key reliably in the first try.

Melatonic 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I still like my physical keyboards - bring back sliders !

rkagerer an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

One stupid button would solve all that. I'm of similar age as you and really miss buttons. In my car, on my devices, on appliances, etc. There are applications where capacitive touchscreen buttons make sense but by and large all they've done over the last 15 years or so is enshittify everything.

toast0 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> The same is true in a physical card wallet.

You can markup a card in a physical wallet. And then originally identical cards become visually distinguishable.

mh- 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Riffing on your comment: would be neat if Apple let you add a sticker to the corner of each card.

pivo 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Yes, exactly. Or some simple text to overlay at the top of the card, it's a very easy problem to solve as far as I can tell.

jonas21 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> the lack of physical home button

You can use the Accessibility settings to add a virtual home button that's always displayed in the same place on-screen. That seems to work pretty well for the older folks I know.

odysseus an hour ago | parent [-]

It wasn’t obvious where to add a virtual home button, so I’m adding instructions here:

Settings > Accessibility > Touch > Assistive Touch

dstroot an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> “The biggest UX issue Apple has for that persona isn't the wallet, it's the lack of physical home button”

So true! Also my 84 year old mother can never figure the difference between a web site and an app. If I could add a home button and solve the second issue her life would be much better.

rurp an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Apple and Tesla are two companies that somehow have a widespread reputation for great UX that I think are absolutely atrocious in that area. It's not just 70 yearolds, an iphone is unusuable for someone of any age if they've never used one before and don't have someone to tell them how to do core actions like back or home.

Tesla loves to hide critical functionality in non-standard places, often buried in touch screen menus. They can move items at any time. That's insane to me, but I guess I'm the outlier.

Android's move to gestures is lame copycat behavior. I've actually seen people online defending it on the grounds that using gestures feels cooler. Maybe that explains it, many people will take UI gimmicks over solid usability.

FireBeyond an hour ago | parent [-]

Right, especially Tesla. The one thing I will say about Tesla's UI (not UX) is that for a while (and admittedly to this day, still, largely) it looked far better and pleasing than most auto UIs. But 1) others are catching up on that front, and 2) as you say, the UX is often garbage.

kungito 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I put a small piece of tape over my gym card since wife has identical one. Freedom of customization

ravenstine 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What does an 80 year old (or anyone really) need with more than one or two cards on a daily basis where this would be an issue? Not being flippant; I legit want to know what leads to this. I have multiple cards but there's only one I use 99% of the time, and it's pink so it stands out.

kergonath 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> What does an 80 year old (or anyone really) need with more than one or two cards on a daily basis where this would be an issue?

In my physical wallet I can take the card I use daily (which is on a limited account and no big deal if I lose it) and leave the others at home. On my phone, there are all the cards I ever used or plan to use at some point in the future.

mh- 4 hours ago | parent [-]

To that end, I do wish there was a way to hide some cards in wallet inside a "folder" or something. As is, they're there front and center, or not added at all.

ghaff 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm not 80 but do have a backup credit card and debit card and I do travel. So it's not so much "daily basis" but I do have a handful of cards that I keep with me.

PaulHoule 2 hours ago | parent [-]

In my house we have two businesses [1][2] so that adds two cards. You may also have a card for medical expenses that can be reimbursed with a FSA/HSA or a prepaid debit card that you got as a gift, etc.

[1] don't tell Mr. Fox he's running a business

[2] ... and will probably be adding a third

bombcar 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Some banks have their debit and credit cards almost identical.

You may have multiple cards from the same bank (personal, family, business).

Different cash back from the same bank making you want to use one card over another.

reaperducer 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

ChrisMarshallNY 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> Just wait. You'll find out.

That was a bit blunt; but absolutely true. I'm 64, and never really gave much thought to being here.

Seems like a lot of folks in tech are doing the same.

I won't suddenly become black (I can't even get a decent suntan), and I'm unlikely to suddenly become a woman (but I guess, technically, it's possible), but we all get older (the alternative kinda sucks). Every single one of us will, one day, enjoy the special warm feeling that you get, when someone dismisses you with a flippant "OK Boomer," or whatever the millennial and GenX versions will be.

That's what makes the infamous Silicon Valley (but Brooklyn is actually much worse) ageism so bad. A lot of folks are finding themselves being hoist by their own petards, as they are suddenly unable to get a job.

One of the interesting things about AI, is that younger folks are now getting screwed. Not sure if that's good for older folks, though. The ones that are already there, and are doing a decent job of adopting AI, are probably going to be OK, but that's unlikely to be a majority.

Melatonic 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

And lack of a "back" button. Although they have sort of improved that with the little teeny tiny back arrow that sometimes appears in the upper left of the screen and is hard to click

coldtea 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>The same is true in a physical card wallet.

If only a digital UI didn't have the same skeuomorpic limitations a physical card has ...oh wait!

(And it's not true that the same issue is true in a physical card wallet. In a physical card, either you get a different design from the bank, or you can trivially write on it with a marker or add a sticker to differentiate it).

>An 80 year old with early onset challenges can work this wallet, pick a card, and then hold the phone to the reader at a store.

A, yes, the standard target group for iOS and the Wallet app in particular.

I swear, the arguments people make...

patapong 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

So? Computers are the dream machine, we should strive to do better than physical reality, not mimic it.

croes 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> The same is true in a physical card wallet.

That’s why Apple has to copy the problem for the wallet?

Dries007 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Except that personalized cards have been a thing since I've had a card in 2014...

jbverschoor 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If you have multiple cards with the same bank you'll need to remember the last 4 digits. It's total bs

yandie 3 hours ago | parent [-]

My Amex cards show up like the physical ones with the actual physical design elements like colors etc… so maybe it’s bank dependent?

bombcar 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Some banks are better than others - Apple is amusingly bad at it if you have the Apple Card and your wife has you shared on hers. Two white rectangles, both alike in dignity, in fair Cupertino, where we lay our scene.

Invictus0 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

This is silly. "It matches a 70 year old's muscle memory" should not be the sole test of good design; if it were, then we would be plugging mouses and keyboards into our phones.

bombcar 2 hours ago | parent [-]

As we more and more mandate smartphones to live, we need to take accessibility into account. Watching "the olds" (which we are all fated to become someday unless something intervenes) fight technology is eye-opening; especially when you realize that you are starting to fight it.

I never knew there was a virtual home button available in iOS; but apparently there is.

mvdwoord 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

First thing I noticed too, as I have multiple cards from the same bank. I also noticed they show you last digits of the ... CARD number, not the account number which would be tremendously more helpful. But I figured out you can put little icons on the cards. Which my bank did automatically for my business account. I added a little person icon for my personal account. Maybe bank specific though but definitely super dumb that you cannot label them yourself easily in the wallet app.

eNV25 3 hours ago | parent [-]

That's ridiculous. The card number has nothing to do with the account number.

bombcar 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. My debit card from my credit union is easy to map to the account as they share digits, but other debit cards from other institutions are completely unrelated.

ryandrake 2 hours ago | parent [-]

This whole comment section looks to be turning into a "Falsehoods Programmers Believe About Credit Cards" blog post.

mikepurvis 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm 39M and have ended up with a bunch of different credit cards; I get annoyed picking between them even without the additional complication of them being identical in appearance.

For me it's my daily driver, my Costco branded card, my airline's amex card, my USD denominated card, and my work-issued card. There are also two ATM/debit cards in there which I'll occasionally choose at small merchants where I know the CC fees hit them harder.

In most cases I just want the daily driver, but the airline card gets good rewards for dining so it does come out reasonably often as well. The USD card I can mostly ignore unless I'm traveling there and can temporarily set it as the default.

bombcar 2 hours ago | parent [-]

[dead]

spike021 28 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I have multiple Chase cards but they do look different from each other physically and in the Wallet app. Isn't that just a bank issue of not making cards differentiate from each other?

aingisni_del 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Spot on re: App UI designed and engineered by 20y/o in SF. That is actually accurate, because that was (is?) the team that engineered it. I interviewed with them sometime ago when Apple Pay had just come out, and that entire Wallet/Passbook team seemed really toxic and ... very mediocre. Not surprising that this feature hasn't seen much improvement over time.

conradev 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The design is skeuomorphic, modeled after a standard bifold wallet which gives your physical cards the same treatment.

My current wallet doesn't give me any affordances: https://grifiti.com/products/grifiti-band-joes-3-25-x-1-25-i...

waterproof 3 hours ago | parent [-]

your current wallet lets you add labels or stickers to your cards.

classic Apple situation - look, this is super clean, intuitive software! but if you want a reasonable level of flexibility that you would expect elsewhere, you are SOL.

rootusrootus 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This has been one of my peeves for years. Apple is capable of good design, and overall is well regarded for it, but there are a number of places where they have blinders on and absolutely refuse to fix extremely obvious missteps.

jbverschoor 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You say good. I'd call it minimal. Minimal doesn't mean good.

For example, I have bold text, larger text. On my mac I have all these contrast increasing settings enabled, simply because it's *not* good "design"

It's good that it's minimal, but this minimalism is also why many things don't work (timemachine, icloud files/photos -> everything needs to be automatic, causing recurring downloads follewed cache eviction of those files). Etc etc etc

smt88 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Apple is capable of beautiful and minimalistic designs, but their usability has been terrible since basically the iPod.

Minimal is often an enemy of usable.

SOLAR_FIELDS 17 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Another related annoyance, and I’m not sure if this is Apples fault or the developer’s fault, but things like plane tickets don’t expire out. You don’t need to auto remove them (but perhaps give me the option to opt in for that) but slightly greying expired ones out in the ui by default would go a long way towards helping with this

lobster-emoji 9 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> shared account with your partner

Do stupid things and the UI looks stupid. Shocker.

amluto 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The flow for removing cards is also a fantastic exercise in slowness.

2 hours ago | parent | next [-]
[deleted]
ncr100 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

How so?

amluto 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Open the Wallet app (the double-tap-power view doesn’t work). Ask to delete one card at a time (which requires two taps which a short mandatory wait between them due to the animation). Tap again to confirm. Then wait an obnoxiously long time for the too-cute animation to complete. Then repeat for the next card, while wondering why there is no bulk remove operation of any sort.

avemg 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Yep! Extremely annoying when traveling with my family of four!

timacles 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

When I first started using it I thought something was broken

ncr100 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Which something? The identical-ness of your particular collection of cards, in the wallet?

OJFord 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Well, I don't know what it looks like in Apple Wallet, because I use Google Wallet, but for the same reason I'm struggling to imagine the problem because there the cards are pretty large – maybe ⅔ real card size on my Pixel 10 – and in a carousel at the top. So you can see clearly which one the active one is, and just swipe between them if it's not the one you want.

Easier than my physical wallet tbh, where they're behind each other, which I say begrudgingly because I've long held out, only starting to use the app a couple of weeks ago.

MagicMoonlight 36 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You can order them in whatever order you want and set your main one as the default.

kjkjadksj 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Nothing like having every flight you ever booked continuously stored forever. So easy to say “gee this flight was three days ago, maybe they don’t need the boarding pass anymore”. I just checked and I somehow have a covid test from 2022 stuck in there.

sitzkrieg 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

apple is a masterclass of terrible uis and hidden interactions

troupo 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There's also no way to go to the wallet from the actual shortcut screen you most commonly use (the double-click power one)

yieldcrv 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

long hold to re-arrange your rearrange what your default card is - but to the bottom of the stack - is dumb

bombcar 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Apple has my location at every moment of my life, from birth to natural death, and they can't switch the default card based on the store I'm in?

Will wonders never cease.

jasonmp85 28 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[dead]

aurareturn 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Why doesn’t the bank design a slightly different top for different cards?

alistairSH 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Because the cards aren't different cards.

In my case, I have a personal card and a shared card from the same bank. The card type is the same, one just happens to have my spouse as a co-owner.

Some banks do allow you to pick a card look/image. Most don't.

But whatever the case, Apple really should allow tagging cards in the Wallet with a small icon/emoji/something. It doesn't need to be fancy - just enough to visually distinguish two otherwise visually similar cards.

jqpabc123 2 hours ago | parent [-]

just enough to visually distinguish two otherwise visually similar cards.

How about a simple, old fashioned text label for each card?

bombcar 2 hours ago | parent [-]

For all I know there is something like that, but it'll be buried in settings, probably in accessibility, where nobody ever goes.

Discoverability of options on the iPhone is fraught with danger and distrust, I learned about CarPlay widgets a few days ago and I've used it for years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rUminiQjtM

jqpabc123 2 hours ago | parent [-]

From my limited experience, Apple often denies the obvious for the sake of asthetics.

For example, the simple utility of a [Backspace] key.