| ▲ | jillesvangurp 6 hours ago |
| These are just signs of this market maturing. For a lot of business customers, EU based hosting is not optional. That includes models. Routing requests via API endpoints in the US is not really acceptable. And anything involving privacy sensitive data of course needs to be handled properly. Sam Altman pinky swearing to be nice doesn't quite cut it in terms of hard guarantees. EU based legal entities and strong compliance with local laws with some hard SLAs and contractual guarantees is not going to be optional for liability reasons. Provenance of models, their training data, and exact ways they have been instructed to act are also not just nice to haves. I expect non EU jurisdictions are eventually going to be similarly picky about their AI suppliers and I expect all the big tech providers to adapt to local markets just like they did with cloud infrastructure. I don't have much experience with Mistral yet. But I may need to get my hands dirty to be able to sell this to some of our customers. We have a few more picky customers in Germany. |
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| ▲ | alkonaut 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| > We have a few more picky customers in Germany. Describe making business in Europe with one evergreen sentence |
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| ▲ | askonomm 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Because companies here actively want to avoid breaking the law, as opposed to the U.S where breaking the law is just a matter of paying some $ to the grifter in chief? I always find it funny when Europeans being proactive about that sort of stuff is somehow a bad thing from Americans point of view. Like wanting decent human rights and not having to bend over to megacorps is something we should not have. Though, if the Americans in question just want to do their grifting in EU, it makes sense why they are upset at that, I guess, because it limits their grifting opportunities. | | |
| ▲ | owlcompliance 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | Ylpertnodi 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Paris was a shithole 40 years ago, too.
It's only free speech if the .gov says so.p
Rapists get set free in all countries all the time. |
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| ▲ | lo_zamoyski 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > companies here actively want to avoid breaking the law This is hilarious. This reminds me of Soviet propaganda. "No, there was no Chernobyl disaster. Please disregard the corpses. Yes, the centrally-planned economy is doing fantastically, better than expected. Reports of famines and shortages are imperialist propaganda." (Mind you, the Soviets are not alone here, but the blatant chutzpah of Soviet propaganda is perhaps more conspicuous to the Western eye than the Western varieties of PR and psychological manipulation.) | |
| ▲ | joe_mamba 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | >Because companies here actively want to avoid breaking the law Haha, yeah sure. What other fairy tales you gonna tells us next? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens#2005_and_continuing:_w... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirecard_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parmalat_bankruptcy_timeline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus#Bribery_allegations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CumEx-Files https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lafarge_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfizergate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ING_Group#Money_laundering_cas... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Holdings#Corruptio... | | |
| ▲ | Arodex 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Thank you for your brilliant demonstration of survivorship bias. How many people were punished for Enron? For the subprime crisis? Etc. In the US, you just give a little money for the president's ballroom and you are pardoned. Or you settle out of court because your justice system is crap. | | |
| ▲ | selectodude 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | The CEO of Enron was convicted and died two months before sentencing and the COO got 12 years. Interestingly the chief accountant of Enron ended up getting a job in Europe after he got out of prison. | | |
| ▲ | joe_mamba 32 minutes ago | parent [-] | | >Interestingly the chief accountant of Enron ended up getting a job in Europe after he got out of prison. But, but ..Europeans here said they don't tolerate crooks. |
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| ▲ | 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | watwut 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yes, European companies break the law too. However, the comment this was about literally mocked the companies that are actively trying to follow the law. So yes, such companies exist and plenty of people see their existence as a good thing rather then something to mock. | | |
| ▲ | jgwil2 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | That comment mocked German customers; it didn't mention companies at all. | | | |
| ▲ | mothballed 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Law has no virtue in and of itself. | | |
| ▲ | 21asdffdsa12 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | It also ultimately a expression of might makes right (sad as this is) and as the current culture supports a decline of western might, it also undoes the law - first international, than domestic. We simply decided to burden our might with these restriction fictions, others feel not at all compelled to follow. I expect to see further selling out of these laws, as the economic prosperity declines. I can perfectly see german law limiting german companies from developing and selling AI products, while at the same time allowing us companies for a "pay our retires and pension-plans" kickback. |
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| ▲ | esafak 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | In Europe, those are scandals. In the US, it's another Tuesday. | | |
| ▲ | joe_mamba 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | If we keep moving the goalposts you can make any argument | | |
| ▲ | Arodex 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | What goalposts? Your sitting president, himself a conman is pardoning fraudsters left and right while he and his family enrich themselves with public money and extortion. | | |
| ▲ | joe_mamba 33 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | > Your sitting president, himself a conman I'm European so "your president" Ursula would technically be a con-woman depending on what her pronouns are. Not sure what your argument was with this cheap jab. | |
| ▲ | Ylpertnodi 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Shhhh, don't tell them, it'll be funnier at the end. | | |
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| ▲ | pyrale 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Let me rephrase this: companies want to avoid breaking the law unknowingly, because their US providers are going to break the law without notice, willingly or unwillingly. Plenty of corporations are willing to break the rules, but never for free. | | |
| ▲ | guywithahat 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | > because their US providers are going to break the law without notice, willingly or unwillingly This is a weird hill to die on because it's not true. I can't find anything to support your world view and if anything evidence points to the contrary. Europe has a deliberately more complex legal framework, usually in the hopes of keeping out foreign competition (although it's dubious whether or not that actually works). | | |
| ▲ | pyrale 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | > I can't find anything to support your world view Just look at US laws pertaining to data that goes through US companies. |
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| ▲ | philipallstar 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| > For a lot of business customers, EU based hosting is not optional They still use US clouds that can have information pulled by the US government. |
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| ▲ | troyvit 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | FTA: > So Mistral is developing its own data centers, starting with one outside Paris. Mensch projects it will have 200 megawatts of capacity by the end of 2027. Power from France’s state-owned nuclear plants will help, but the buildout could still cost an estimated $5 billion. Mensch tapped oil-rich Abu Dhabi and reportedly sought debt financing to help pay for it. Though to your point it won't be running until 2027. | | |
| ▲ | tmikaeld 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Compared to US datacenter buildout, it’s probably much more likely to actually go online.. | |
| ▲ | philipallstar 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yes, I think the EU is going to be dependent on US tech (other than EUV lithography machines, very cool) for very long time. Even those data centres, while run by Europeans, are still being made with almost entirely US tech. But at least the EU companies can borrow some oil money and buy in the stuff developed by someone else's R&D spend, which is a nice shortcut to have available. |
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| ▲ | hsuduebc2 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This is changing somehow. At least on a surface. For example Amazon have created European subsidiary completely managed by Europeans under European company thus under it's local jurisdiction. | | |
| ▲ | ta20240528 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | You are incorrect: 1. the 2018 CLOUD Act mandates US companies — and their subsidiaries — to provide information to the US government on demand, regardless of where the data is stored 2. FISA secret courts prevent companies from even saying they where summoned, or telling anyone who or what the case was about (including canaries). So you won't ever know if your data was handed over to the US government. | | |
| ▲ | hsuduebc2 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | They should be legally and physically separated and these actions should be then potentially illegal for Europeans so I do not think I'm at least infactual. But assuming the owner is US company abiding US laws it's safe to assume that data would be transferred to US one way or the another. | | |
| ▲ | overfeed 9 minutes ago | parent [-] | | The US intelligence machinery spied on Angela Merkel's phone. Do you suppose secretly demanding cooperation for Lawful intercept capabilities in Amazon GmbH is somehow beyond or beneath them? Also consider that all communication between the European subsidiaries to the HQ is fair game under FISA. |
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| ▲ | Ylpertnodi 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Best to assume it is. |
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| ▲ | FpUser 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Unless it is air gapped which it is not there is no way to protect Amazon's developed and owned software stack from reporting back to headquarters. | | |
| ▲ | cbg0 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Sure there is: contracts, laws and prison time can ensure that doesn't happen. | | |
| ▲ | overfeed 5 minutes ago | parent [-] | | The European leaders would have have no say in it. If the software from Seattle is designed to covertly exfiltrate information, they won't even know it. |
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| ▲ | hsuduebc2 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | That's why I used the "somehow". But abiding your logic nothing is ever secured, which is ultimately true, but it could be illegal so detergent here is not the impossibility it self but potentional harsh punishment for breaking the law. |
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| ▲ | master-lincoln 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | We should forbid that if customer PII is involved | | |
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