| ▲ | karim79 4 hours ago |
| This is Israel's "business as usual" stuff. Mowing the lawn, fake ceasefire, distraction, expansion and greater Israel project let's go! stuff. Stretch goal is to make Iran a failed state. Primary goal is distraction from the very real annexation of Palestinian and Lebanese territories, one war crime at a time. |
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| ▲ | ekjhgkejhgk 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| And to anyone who doesn't buy this comment, I strongly suggest "The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy" by Mearsheimer. |
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| ▲ | jojocool0501 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | jack_eosnci 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | blurbleblurble 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I'd also be depressed if I were in your shoes account created 8 minutes ago https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-minister-c... https://www.timesofisrael.com/nearly-20-nations-slam-israels... https://www.timesofisrael.com/expansion-of-west-bank-rule-ap... | | |
| ▲ | jack_eosnci an hour ago | parent [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | lmf4lol an hour ago | parent [-] | | wouldn't it be reasonable to provide counter sources then? | | |
| ▲ | jack_eosnci an hour ago | parent [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | blurbleblurble an hour ago | parent [-] | | hate? who's full of hate? | | |
| ▲ | jack_eosnci an hour ago | parent [-] | | You .
The links you said are very misleading when looking at reality and the whole picture.
So the fact you chose these hilariously misleading links means you are misled.
Where did that misleading come from? You have to be fueled with emotions to get to that incorrect conclusion of yours (again, only based on your links).
So I am assuming you hate the jews/zionism/israel/something related and that hate fueled your failed journey at reaching the truth. | | |
| ▲ | selfmodruntime 12 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I must be missing where there was any hate in this discussion whatsoever. | |
| ▲ | blurbleblurble an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | "Israel should extend its border with Lebanon up to the Litani River deep inside the country's south, Israel's finance minister said on Monday as Israeli troops bombed bridges and destroyed homes in an escalating military assault.
The comments by Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich were the most explicit yet by a senior Israeli official on seizing Lebanese territory in a fight Israel says targets Iran-backed Hezbollah militants." Am I missing something? | | |
| ▲ | jack_eosnci 27 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Yes, a lot of context.
Otherwise your linked article would indeed favor your argument. But given without enough context this article is a pure backwards nonsense that can and does confuse uninformed people like yourself. |
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| ▲ | throwaw12 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > reason and evidence It was upvoted by so many people actually because of reason and evidence. Also, please stop using race card, no one is blaming a race, people are pointing out to the country who is carrying out these cruelties and majority of government supporting it and majority of army is executing the commands | | |
| ▲ | k33n 16 minutes ago | parent [-] | | You guys are so correct that you have to flag everything that shows how irrational you are being. | | |
| ▲ | throwaw12 12 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I think you are attacking people for flagging it, without reading the actual content of the reply. |
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| ▲ | tristanj 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | karim79 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Israel hates negotiations. Netanyahu funded Hamas. And you're writing comedy and I just can't be bothered. You got me. No you didn't. Only a Zionist would call equal rights and the right to self-determination a "maximalist" position. Answer me one thing. Who will be the people who flow into Israel while the whole world sees the ugly state it has become? A weirdly supremacist ethno-state is not a solution. It might seem like a good idea but I don't think it has legs to be honest. | | |
| ▲ | cm2187 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > "Netanyahu funded Hamas" I see this claim repeated over and over. You should be aware that it is false. As far as I am aware, Israel never funded Hamas. Israel allowed Qatari money to the Gaza authority to pay for civil servants, humanitarian aid and basic services, while it was run by Hamas. | |
| ▲ | iamacyborg 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Only a Zionist would call equal rights and the right to self-determination a "maximalist" position. To be clear, this was not Hamas’ position during negotiations. | |
| ▲ | boxed 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Only a Zionist would call equal rights and the right to self-determination a "maximalist" position They had equal rights and self-determination in Gaza. For decades. They never built a society from it, instead begging the international community for food, and then starting a war they knew they would lose, only for the PR points of losing badly. | | |
| ▲ | kdheiwns an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Where's a blockaded tiny slice of coastal land no more than a few miles wide with no water and no arable land supposed to even get food? Nobody is convinced by the "they're just beggars" racist stuff, man. Those poor people were actively expelled from their homes and continuously oppressed and have had their new homes flattened countless times. The fact those poor people still survive and try to rebuild each and every time shows that those people work hard. | | |
| ▲ | boxed an hour ago | parent [-] | | Israel managed to build agriculture there, that's why they left all that agricultural gear that Hamas repurposed to making rockets. > Nobody is convinced by the "they're just beggars" racist stuff, man. Nobody is convinced by the "you're just racist" stuff, man. | | |
| ▲ | kdheiwns a few seconds ago | parent [-] | | It's physically impossible for land that small to grow enough food to provide for their population. And the whole "They never built a society from it" thing is what the most extreme racists and slave traffickers said about Africans. It's dehumanizing and absolutely disgusting that way to talk about a group of human beings and people should be shamed for saying such things. |
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| ▲ | fuck_google an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | 7952 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Israel are unwilling or unable to hold to agreements and that makes them an unreliable partner. The same has been true of America with Iran. Both Iran and America also have a maximalist approach in terms of use of remote weapons and reluctance to accept casualties. That limits the effectiveness of "might makes right". Massively more so in the larger Iran. And whilst Gaza might seem like a collosal defeat it could be seen in a more positive light in a culture that views sacrifice as noble. Again same could be true of Iran. | | | |
| ▲ | ZeroGravitas 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | People really love this "might makes right" stuff till it's their civilians being killed in large numbers, then suddenly it's a problem. | | | |
| ▲ | hackable_sand 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Your arguments directly conflict | |
| ▲ | Hikikomori 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Not true. Hamas wanted to do hostage exchange for Palestinian women and children held in Israeli prisons and truce within the first week. Israel refused. | | |
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| ▲ | anovikov an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Do you want it to be other way around instead? |
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| ▲ | amunozo an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | What are you trying to say? Stop justifying Israel's actions as inevitable. They are not. | | |
| ▲ | anovikov an hour ago | parent [-] | | I mean, other way around is if "Palestine" advances on Israel. | | |
| ▲ | amunozo 44 minutes ago | parent [-] | | If it is to recover what Israel occupied illegally, good. If Palestine did what Israel is doing, that would be bad. What happened in October the 7th was also horrible and condemned. We really need to deescalate the whole situation and stop the violence. Every one of these violent actions (in which Israel is the main perpetrator by far), not only create suffering and deaths in the short term, but makes a possible solution harder and harder. | | |
| ▲ | nickserv 17 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | > We really need to deescalate the whole situation and stop the violence. Yes. Also, I would like a poney. | |
| ▲ | anovikov 35 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | But in land of Israel/Palestine itself, there's no significant violence going on right? Hamas is isolated, there is an ample security zone, it's cut off from border and unable to militarily recover - problem is solved. West Bank is split into many enclaves, surrounded by walls and buffer zones, incapable of doing much harm and seems to be unwilling to try it in any case - any such outbursts will be contained if they happen. For now, problem looks like it's solved - Palestinians on either side are incapable of harming Israel much, and Israel doesn't need or want to harm them either simply because endgame is unclear - ideally they are pushed out but no country will accept them so it's futile. What is the exact problem we are discussing here? Actions in Lebanon are simply about creating a buffer zone there to make remnants of Hezbolla to threaten Israeli northern towns. Once zone south Litani river is secured, things will calm down. | | |
| ▲ | nixon_why69 29 minutes ago | parent [-] | | There's lots of violence ongoing in both the West Bank and Gaza. While a million(!!) are newly homeless in Lebanon. The complete lack of regard for non-Israeli life says more than any propaganda ever could. |
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| ▲ | sph 43 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | As long as the state of Israel is a project of ultra-nationalist hostile expansion, yes. Respect your neighbours or else. | | |
| ▲ | expedition32 27 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Ultra religious expansion. Sadly there's no Babylon this time. | |
| ▲ | IshKebab 28 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I think the alternative he was alluding to was that Iran is the project of ultra-religious hostile expansion. Which of course they would do if they could. Pick your poison - nationalist fanaticism or religious fanaticism. Obviously neither would be best but that isn't a realistic possibility. I think I'd probably rather Israel conquered the Middle East than Iran. | | |
| ▲ | sph 22 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Iran "would" expand (and citation needed) is very different than Israel "is in the process of" expanding, invading, suppressing peoples of different cultures within and without the borders of its state. > I think I'd probably rather Israel conquered the Middle East than Iran. I'd rather that whomever pursues a project of Lebensraum (that includes Russia) to be reminded of its place in the world, one way or another. | | | |
| ▲ | pbiggar 18 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | This is absurd. Iran hasn't done hostile expansion during its entire history as a modern state. Meanwhile the Greater Israel project is being aggressively pursued, with Israel currently (as in today, Wednesday April 8th) ethnically cleansing South Lebanon for indefinite occupation, as well as annexing the West Bank. |
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| ▲ | k33n 16 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Or else what? You can’t do anything. |
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| ▲ | throawayonthe an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | What do you mean? |
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| ▲ | helo4362 an hour ago | parent | prev [-] |
| What option is there for israel. |
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| ▲ | King-Aaron an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Maybe not systematically murdering civilians and stealing their land and homes every day might be a start. Baby steps. | | |
| ▲ | dgxyz an hour ago | parent [-] | | https://www.hamas-massacre.net | | |
| ▲ | Saline9515 24 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Of course, Israel is a pure white dove. For instance, they have rallies for "the right to rape prisoners" (and recently to kill them) [0]. Or to willingly mutilate peaceful protesters presenting no risk[1]. The problem is that the total lack of moral limits in Israel only forces their opponents to escalate, or accept to be treated like animals (in the case of the West Bank Palestinians). It also affects the US, since that they have to follow along with Israel' way of doing the war (mainly, war crimes). [0]: https://www.aljazeera.com/video/newsfeed/2024/8/13/israeli-p... [1]: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2020-03-06/ty-article-ma... | | |
| ▲ | dgxyz 16 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Oh no they are a rotten old pigeon as well and I don't disagree. What I object to is the "freedom fighters" being painted with moral virtue when they are raping murdering bastards. |
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| ▲ | kergonath 20 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | That is the consequence of a long-term policy. Israel made sure the Palestinian authority was sidelined and helped Hamas get full control of the Gaza Strip. History did not start in October 2023. | | |
| ▲ | dgxyz 14 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Yes I am aware of the full history of the Middle East back to the middle ages... The problem really kicked off after the Ottoman reform (Tanzimat) period. |
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| ▲ | close04 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | We call Hamas "terrorists" for far less than Israel's actions. | | |
| ▲ | dgxyz an hour ago | parent [-] | | Brain damage there? | | |
| ▲ | close04 31 minutes ago | parent [-] | | For sure my "genocide supporting" brain center took critical damage and is not operational. | | |
| ▲ | dgxyz 28 minutes ago | parent [-] | | As we're talking absolutes clearly, was the Nova music festival massacre justified resistance? | | |
| ▲ | close04 7 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | > was the Nova music festival massacre justified resistance Intentionally killing civilians is never justified. But this still makes Palestine/Hamas the (much) smaller genocidal terrorist in this conflict. Free people don't need freedom fighters ;). Now, I have no horse in this race, I am not related to any of the peoples involved, and live far away. I'm just the voice that finds genocide wrong. You on the other hand look like you're happily riding the terrorist, genocidal horse. I don't expect anything from you in terms of quality debate. | |
| ▲ | throwaw12 8 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | no massacre is justified, but can you remind us how and where did Hamas get helicopters and tanks and all of a sudden all cars were smashed? maybe Hannibal directive handed them over their tanks |
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| ▲ | bongripper an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | andy_ppp an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Fair. Clearly they need the land back GOD gave them 3000 years ago. | | |
| ▲ | helo4362 an hour ago | parent [-] | | I mean realistically what peaceful propsals are there. Every neighbour country is threating what else they can do. | | |
| ▲ | zelphirkalt an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | As a first step they could give back some of their illegal settlements. Then over time give back more, until they are back in UN recognized borders. That would be a start. They could also start to persecute violent mobs that chased people out of their own homes and the people in the military covering them. They could also release unjustifiably imprisoned people. You know, things that basic human decency would demand of them. | |
| ▲ | nielsbot an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The best plan is one democratic state from the river to the sea for all peoples governed by the Israel government. > Every neighbour country is threating what else they can do. See above. When Israel finally stops trying to be a Jewish supremacist state things can finally start getting better. | |
| ▲ | Matl an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Has it ever entered your mind that maybe it is actually Israel that is threatening every other country? | | |
| ▲ | dgxyz an hour ago | parent [-] | | Israel remembers the Six-Day War... | | |
| ▲ | kergonath 15 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | The war started by Israel, ostensibly as a retaliation for a dispute about a bit of water, which Israel used as a pretext to invade the West Bank? What about it? | |
| ▲ | lostlogin an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Does that give a perpetual licence to kill, or do we try something productive at some point? | | |
| ▲ | dgxyz an hour ago | parent [-] | | The only productive solution is to get rid of all religious ideology out there (both sides). Good luck. | | |
| ▲ | Matl an hour ago | parent [-] | | The 'both sides' thing when one side is occupying the other is pathetic.
There's only one side that needs to stop the occupation immediately, the Israeli one.
We can go from there. | | |
| ▲ | dgxyz an hour ago | parent [-] | | Yeah remember when they left Gaza in 2005. What happened then? | | |
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| ▲ | Matl an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Everyone remembers The Nakba.
Or the Suez Crisis And? | | |
| ▲ | dgxyz 37 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Nakba - Entirely the result of Ottoman foreign policy, WW1, WW2, League of Nations being a total fuck up. Suez Crisis - Egypt being dicks Six Day War - attacked from all sides. Bit of a contrast, no? |
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| ▲ | nielsbot an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Re-integration. One democratic state "from the river to the sea". And leave the neighboring states alone. | | |
| ▲ | dgxyz an hour ago | parent [-] | | This comment is exactly why there is no hope out there. Literally zero understanding of middle-Eastern geopolitics other than trite slogans. Come on. Do you think everyone is going to suddenly start holding hands and singing kumbaya? Or more realistically, like nearly every other surrounding state it'll be the elimination and exodus of Jews and Israelis? | | |
| ▲ | lostlogin an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Carpet bombing, artillery and gunfire hasn’t brought peace, but maybe the next salvo will, right? | | |
| ▲ | dgxyz an hour ago | parent [-] | | Ballistic rockets and massacring people at music festivals don't either. There's no moral high ground here so don't even pretend there is one. | | |
| ▲ | Saline9515 16 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | https://archive.ph/Gsw1y Hamas didn't have prior knowledge of the festival, and partygoers were also murdered by the Israeli army. And in general flattening entire cities don't leave their habitants very keen toward Israel either. It just reinforces the cycle of aggression, which allows Israel to take more land. | | | |
| ▲ | close04 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | That's a crazy way to defend an ongoing genocide. The scale is so different that the only way to miss it is willful bad faith. How long and how far do you go with that justification? Does it work the other way too? Are "their" actions justified forever because of something wrong that was done to them? Can anyone in the world do to you anything and everything forever if they were ever wronged by someone born in the same general geographic area as you? Whenever you find yourself defending any genocide, under any excuse, defending the killing of innocent children because some other guys from the same general area also killed people, you are the bigger problem and no amount of fresh accounts justifying it makes you better. | | |
| ▲ | dgxyz an hour ago | parent [-] | | I didn't defend. I just pointed out that the "freedom fighters" in everyone's minds are raping murdering bastards and I refuse to take a moral position and support or defend them for it. That in itself is an abhorrent position and I am disgusted at anyone who takes it. And further extrapolation as you edited it, if a child has a gun pointing at your head and has been trained to fire it at you, which is exactly what they have been doing, then they are legally combatants. But it makes a good statistical and PR job which is just as abhorrent. Legally and statistically speakingh, children... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cD2FezhJgqA I would not do this to MY children. | | |
| ▲ | Saline9515 13 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | > I just pointed out that the "freedom fighters" in everyone's minds are raping murdering bastards So, like Israeli soldiers?[0] > if a child has a gun pointing at your head and has been trained to fire it at you, which is exactly what they have been doing Israelis do exactly the same[1] As long as Israelis rely on violence, war crimes and human rights violations, there can be no deescalation. We see it in the current ceasefire, where Israelis refused to stop their annexation war (and flattening) of Liban. [0]https://www.aljazeera.com/video/newsfeed/2024/8/13/israeli-p... [1]https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20170708-israel-gives-sett... | | |
| ▲ | dgxyz 9 minutes ago | parent [-] | | See my other comments. I'm not defending them either. I am defending facts and stating there is no moral high ground. |
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| ▲ | close04 21 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | > I didn't defend. Didn't you? > if a child has a gun pointing at your head That sure sounds like defending the killing of children because for sure they were all holding a gun and trying to kill you. Including the babies. If you show all the YouTube videos in the world, the moment when you find a justification to kill any innocent children is when you become irreversibly the problem. | | |
| ▲ | dgxyz 17 minutes ago | parent [-] | | No I didn't. Your second point literally makes no sense and is based on the straw man that babies are holding guns where I made no point even related to that or collateral kills (which are unacceptable). Secondarily my point is based on internationally legal definitions of combatant and evidenced with a video of combatants being trained. Not like the UN and UNICEF haven't been all over this for decades. Don't use child soldiers and you won't get statistically significant child casualties. |
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| ▲ | bongripper an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | nslsm an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | This has been happening to Jews everywhere they’ve been since the dawn of time. Maybe some introspection would help. | | |
| ▲ | ComposedPattern 14 minutes ago | parent [-] | | ... Are you saying that it's Jews themselves who are to blame for having been killed or exiled from numerous places? |
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| ▲ | amunozo an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It's so sad to see this ridiculous argument every time. Israel is the aggressor, the murder and the main threat to the region's peace, not the victim. This, of course, does not mean that Iran is not another threat, but its actions seem like nothing compared to what Israel is doing. | |
| ▲ | patates an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Stop the immortality project and stop the massive suffering happening right now. People should really read "The Denial of Death". | | | |
| ▲ | surgical_fire an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Perhaps not be a genocidaire apartheid state? | |
| ▲ | rcbdev an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | The only endgame I see for the region is sadly the complete and utter annihilation of all civilizations there, possibly through nuclear means. I do not say this lightly and I say it with a deep sadness in my heart for the people of the middle east, but also with the sober realization that this is the only end of the path that is currently walked. | | |
| ▲ | littlestymaar an hour ago | parent [-] | | There's a much less grim end, probably coming at short term: If the US stop giving unconditional blank check support to Israel, then the nuisance power of the Jewish supremacists there disappears overnight. The US popular support for Israel is now at an all time low, and the recent war may be the straw that breaks the Camel's back. All that's needed to stabilize the region is some amount of pushback to the destabilizing country here. Iran have been a destabilizing force for the past decade, but since 2023 Israel is by far the biggest threat to the region, and it's mostly due to Netanyahu's political survival relying on the state of perpetual war he's put the country in. Should the US put even a modicum amount of pressure to Israel (or even just declare they wouldn't support them should the EU put economic sanctions on Israel), then the current cabinet collapse, Netanyahu ends up in prison for corruption and the middle east is stable for a decade. All of this madness is happening because the US enables a madman to escape his own judicial system through foreign wars. | | |
| ▲ | frm88 35 minutes ago | parent [-] | | All of this madness is happening because the US enables a madman to escape his own judicial system through foreign wars. All of this madness is happening because the US enables two+ madmen to escape their own judicial system through foreign wars. Fixed it. | | |
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