The giant bugbear in this conversation is always multiplayer. That's because almost all of the big players in that space currently favor rootkits in the form of overly invasive anti-cheat, which the Linux wrappers (mostly the wine project) refuse to support for security reasons.

If you don't play PvP specifically, the rest of the library is significantly more open to you. Personally I have always favored single player experiences and indie games from smaller studios, and for the most part those run great.

▲ godelski 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's unfortunate but at the same time if enough people switch to Linux then they'll be forced to change their ways.

So if you can go without those games or don't play MMOs that is rootkits then switch to force their hand.

Besides, them installing a rootkit on your machine is not an acceptable practice anyways. It's a major security issue. Sometimes we need to make a stand. Everyone has a line, where's yours?

▲ abustamam 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This is true in principle but most gamers are just gonna take the path of least resistance. If they can't play fortnite on Linux (I'm using an example, I don't know if it's actually unplayable on Linux) then they will use whatever OS lets them play.

People have been saying "vote with your wallet" every time gaming companies do something anti consumer like day one dlc or buggy releases (don't pre-order!) or $90 games, but gaming companies continue to push the envelope on what gamers will pay for because gamers keep paying for it.

It's a sad reality.

▲ direwolf20 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Take a step back. Why do people want to play Fortnite so much and not anything else?

▲ jsheard 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Because their friends play Fortnite, for example? Multiplayer is often social, so "just play something else" turns into "just get new friends".

▲ godelski 5 hours ago | parent [-]

There's another way. Only a small portion of friends need to change to pull the rest of the group. Pull them to a game that runs on Linux.

Don't do it like "let's play this game because it runs on Linux" do it like "let's play this game because it's fun".

If you want to be the one to lead this change you have to do extra work. Dual boot Linux and find a game that's fun that you can do online. Find the other friend or two in your group that will do the same (at least play the game, Linux is optional but encouraged for this subset). Just play together for a bit, give it a trial run. Then when playing the other game with the larger group say "hey, so and so and I have been playing this game, you guys should play with us sometime". They don't have to install Linux, just play a new game that their friends are already playing. That's why they're there, to play games with their friends. Don't try to get them to switch to Linux, just play games with your friends. You might have a holdout but if most people move then everyone will. But if you want to do that move you have to find what works and at least one other friend to give it a trial (who won't need to do as much work as you). That's how you do it. No crazy scheme and honestly not massive amounts of work either. Just the normal process of finding new games to play with one constraint. It just seems complicated because I stated the process explicitly.

▲ abustamam 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I don't play a lot of online games anymore, but when I did, it wasn't just because friends were playing it. It was because it was fun, it was part of the cultural zeitgeist, it's popular, the community is fun, etc. You can't really replace something like that with just "another game," no matter how fun the other game is.

▲ godelski 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

  > It was because it was fun

I agree. But I think there are a lot of fun games. Plenty of them on Linux.

  > it was part of the cultural zeitgeist

This is the harder part, but we are in an age where there are a lot of games. I think you'll be surprised to see the games that do work on Linux[0]. Looking at the most played multiplayer games on Steam[1] (in order): (1) Counterstrike, (2) Dota 2, (3) Arc Raiders, (5) Terraria, (8) Grand Theft Auto, and (9) Marvel Rivals all have good proton support. What doesn't work in the top 10 are (4) PUBG, (6) Bongo Cat, and (10) EA Sports FC 26. (7) Rust supposedly works, but only on Linux supported servers (smaller user base).

  > it's popular,

The point I'm making here is that while you may not get to be part of every cultural zeitgeist, you can still participate in the 3 most popular ones and more than half of the top 10. Frankly, most people won't be able to participate in every zeitgeist for any number of reasons (cost, hardware, restrictions, etc). But I think considering this you don't have to fear being left out.

Maybe you're obsessed with PUBG or Battlefield and then yeah, Linux isn't going to work for you. That's okay! But looking at the numbers, for most people, they can still be a part of all the cultural excitement. It's not going to work for everyone, and that's okay! If it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. But I want to make sure we can distinguish real blockers from ones Microslop and EA want you to believe in.

  > the community is fun

I think this is less of a blocker than you might think. Honestly, in my experience smaller communities tend to be more fun. They develop their own close knit culture. You've been on HN a long time and seen it grow. Isn't that a similar reason you come here?

  > You can't really replace something like that with just "another game," no matter how fun the other game is.

You're right, but again, I think there are fewer blockers than you think. I can't tell you if those blockers are real or not because what is a blocker comes down to you and your personal interpretations of all those variables. But if you're frustrated with Windows and the system, why not give it a try? You don't even have to switch to Linux to pressure the studios to change. Just spending more time playing games like Counterstrike or Arc Raiders than games like PUBG or Battlefield. And if you play more games like the former you make it easier for others that are thinking about making the jump. But hey, if PUBG or Battlefield is your jam and you don't want to try anything else, then no worries. You do you.

There's one more important thing I want to bring up. I think it is important to ask "where is your line?" How much junk can Winblows shove in before you're willing to make sacrifices? Is EA installing a rootkit enough of a security concern where you won't take it? What is? You don't need to tell me what the answers are to these questions. What's important is that you yourself know where these lines are beforehand. The lines are personal and unique to you. People are going to have other lines than you and that's completely fine. I just ask you think about what conditions would cause you to make sacrifices? That way if they happen you can respond.

[0] https://www.protondb.com/

[1] https://steamdb.info/charts/?tagid=3859

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jsheard 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Looking at the most played multiplayer games on Steam

Note that this is skipping over some extremely popular games which aren't on Steam. Notably Fortnite, Roblox, League of Legends, Valorant, and everything else from Riot Games, none of which work on Linux. From the Steam examples there's also some grey areas, GTA5 singleplayer works but multiplayer does not, and Counterstrike works on official servers but not on Faceit servers, where a lot of serious competitive play happens.

	▲	godelski 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		You're right to bring up the limits, but I think you're missing what I'm saying. I'm not trying to say that everyone can and should switch. But I am saying that the costs are probably less than one might think. The costs of switching can only be answered at the individual level. No one can answer for you. But people can state their experiences and help you understand the costs and benefits. Let's make sure we can accurately understand the costs and benefits and differentiate from imaginary ones. I also said that you can take a stand without switching to Linux. Maybe the costs are too high for you right now. But maybe the costs of meeting up with your friends to play Dota rather than League is easy. At the end of the day the costs are due to the network effects. You can reduce those costs slowly and make it easier for others to jump ship without you needing to, which makes it easier for you to jump ship in the future if things change. The same is true for social media. Maybe you can't break from Instagram as you have too many contacts where that's your only way to communicate with them. But you can still encourage others to text you, Signal message you, or whatever. This still reduces the power of that network. Here's the thing: the less sticky platforms are the better it is for everyone. I'm not going to tell you that you aren't going to have to put in more effort, but I will criticize you if you think that effort is insurmountable. I will also say that this is also part of our social duty. If something like using Signal instead of Instagram to communicate with your friend because they want to is "too hard" for you, then I envy the life you have where such trivial actions are your biggest concerns. If trying new games with friends who want to try new games is "too much" for you, then I think you should question if you're an addict. I'm not saying you have to switch. I'm not saying you have to play certain games and not others. But you do have to be open to changing things and recognize that if you don't then you're creating a doomed self-fulfilling prophecy. If you're unwilling to have the slightest inconveniences then the enshitification and dystopia is on you. If you are unwilling to have the slightest inconveniences then you have no right to complain as you are the one preventing that change. But also, if you don't have any of those concerns of enshitification and tech dystopia then you have every right to stand your ground and not be inconvenienced. But I want to make the conditions clear. We live in a society. The society has a duty to you and you have a duty to the society. You don't just get to take and give nothing back.

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some_random 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

First off, a hell of a lot more of those top 50 are unplayable. But more importantly the thing that you are ignoring is that every single one works on Windows. By choosing to use Linux you are choosing to not be able to play these games and an unknown number of future games for... what? If you only have a PC to play games with your friends, what could possibly be more important to you than the ability to play games with your friends?

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abustamam 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

This isn't about me though. I game on Linux. I love it. My original reply was to this in your comment

> It's unfortunate but at the same time if enough people switch to Linux then they'll be forced to change their ways.

The whole point of this subthread is that companies are not going to make Linux compatible games as long as there are customers OK with installing root kits on their companies to play their games. And most gamers are ok with that line being crossed. It sucks for the rest of us, but capitalism gonna capitalism.

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godelski 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I apologize for misunderstanding your comment, but I hope mine still stands to help others recognize the issues you brought up aren't as large as some may actually believe. I agree with you, companies that abuse us, the users, want to amplify that fear. It empowers them. It's why I am encouraging anyone who reads my comment to ask themselves where that line is. Personally I'm with you, the line has already been crossed. I've made the move and don't regret it for a second. Nothing changes for the better when no one is willing to take the first step.

	▲	abustamam 42 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		No worries, and no I completely agree with you on all fronts.

▲ direwolf20 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

There are lots of fun games in the cultural zeitgeist.

▲ johnnyanmac 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You assume I have friends. Or at least, friends that care about video games.

Besides, more likely is that I leave to do my own thing, 0-1 peers joins me for a bit, then we all kinda drift away. Friendships in this era are much more ephemeral.

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godelski 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I want to step away from the conversation about Linux

Honestly, I'm disheartened to hear this. Frankly, those don't sound like friends, or at least close friends. If a friendship can evaporate by the simple act of wanting to try another game, then it barely seems like a friendship and it seems like those will evaporate as soon as the next popular game comes about. I don't want to tell you to abandon your existing friends but I would encourage you to find friends you can have stronger bonds with. To have closer relationships. Hard truth is you need to put in work to make this happen. It doesn't matter what games you play or on what platform: everyone deserves to have deep human relationships. I really do hope you can find some friends. I hope the friendships you do have are stronger than you have conveyed because frankly, as humans, we all need close friends.

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johnnyanmac 2 hours ago | parent [-]

That's most how most of my life has been in a nutshell; it isn't limited to games. Schools,college, old coworkers. A lot of the glue comes undone the moment you need to move on. I'm a late Millenial, but the advent of social media among Gen Z gave us the ability to connect more intimately than ever over the most niche topics. But at the cost of losing the deep bonds you'd normally form then bundled with a community based on proximity.

I've had long conversations with some former guild mates yet can't point you to a name or face. I know quite a few never even lived in my country. But things loosen up once the game shuts down or one of us needs to move on. It's neat in some ways, hollow in others.

On the larger scale, it's why local community is also weaker than ever. No one really puts and effort to come down to community events, or they may come once or twice and never again. Those gatherings are also less frequent than ever, often once a month. You can't really form a deep bond meeting once a month. So meetups end up frustrating in their own way (at least, the tech meetup. Maybe a run club would be different).

I've even heard notions that it's easier to find a mate than a close friend these days. I can completely believe it.

	▲	godelski an hour ago \| parent [-]
		I'm also in my 30s so I get it. The only real advice I can give is that it just takes more work to maintain friends as we get older. I had to be the one reaching out rather than waiting for others to reach out to me. The other thing is recognize where friendships came from. Most of it was just being physically near people. Sitting in the same classrooms day to day. If work doesn't create that space (or isn't good enough or you want to distance from work) you need something else that does the same thing. Join a club. Set up weekly beers with your friends. Or literally anything that puts you in the same physical space with the same people, routinely. A friend of mine gets together with his gamer friends once a year and they socialize off the game too. The convenience of social media is also its weakness. The ease of connecting makes it just as easy to disconnect. Real friendships require work. That's true of any relationship. I'll tell you my friends can be annoying and exhausting, but I love them and I'll gladly put up with their shit to keep them around. After all, who else is going to put up with my bullshit? lol

▲ thunderfork 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The market for multiplayer games, shooters especially, is already a mess, because people don't want to play a game that doesn't have an infinite pool of players to matchmake into, or a game that doesn't have all their cosmetics, or... etc. etc.

So this ends up being easier said than done. I've had success, but that's my friend group out of however many.

Try to find a shooter with a playerbase that doesn't use EAC/etc. - it's a crapshoot, unfortunately. You've got Valve's stuff and one or two outliers, but if those don't meet your group's genre needs, you're whomped.

▲ eptcyka 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I empathize with the question. But you are essentially asking *why do people want to use instagram and not any other one of millions social media app?*

▲ abustamam 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I can't answer that, but probably similar reason why anyone plays any game. It's fun, their friends play it, etc.

I don't personally play fortnite. But substitute fortnite for any DRMd multi-player game (or MMO).

▲ johnnyanmac 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

1. The audience is mostly kids. They can't buy any premium games easily (and is the lens for the rest of my points)

2. Network effects. Works as well on them as any of us. Especially in a world that makes it more and more hostile to have them meet IRL.

3. It's a generation raised on "forever games". They are used to games they pick up and will continually play for years. Games that will always provide new stuff for them. They fundamentally have different habits from Millenials.

4. Mobile support. So many kids play on mobile. So they are even more isolated from the consple market.

▲ some_random 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Even this framing is silly, if you have a PC to game there are not enough pros to choose Linux. You are giving up the ability to play some popular games and increasing the amount of effort required to play another chunk of them in exchange for what? A snappier file browser? Fewer anti-consumer dark patterns? It's not about "path of least resistance" it just flat out isn't worth it.

▲ demilicious an hour ago | parent [-]

This is overestimating the amount of effort involved to game on Linux, imo. It is true that there are a couple games using kernel-level anticheat which preclude their working on linux, but for the most part the effort required to play games on Linux now is zero if it's a Steam game and almost zero elsewhere.

▲ some_random an hour ago | parent [-]

Rust on Linux only works for Linux based servers https://www.protondb.com/app/252490

Apex Legend used to work but doesn't anymore (still marked Silver) https://www.protondb.com/app/1172470

Delta Force used to work but also doesn't anymore (still marked Bronze), people are tinkering with config files but nothing seems to work https://www.protondb.com/app/2507950

NARAKA: BLADEPOINT is working but requires custom Proton, some tweaked settings, launch options, etc https://www.protondb.com/app/1203220

GTA V public lobbies don't work, requires you to tweak launch options, disable battleeye anticheat, seems to just not work for some people. https://www.protondb.com/app/271590

BG3 also seems to require a custom Proton and tweaked settings for some people https://www.protondb.com/app/271590

It goes on and on these were just from the first few games sorted by player count. Much of the tweaking seems to be different person to person, sometimes it just works sometimes it's Nvidia's fault, sometimes it's something totally different. There's a "recommended for tinkerers" option for reviews. To be clear, every single one of these works right out of the box first time on Windows.

▲ godelski 8 minutes ago | parent [-]

  > but requires custom Proton, some tweaked settings, launch options, etc

I was not shocked that that top comment mentioned they used Claude because the config line is dumb.

The line is

  PROTON_DISABLE_D3D12=1 PROTON_HIDE_NVIDIA_GPU=1 %command% -force-d3d11

Here's what they mean

  PROTON_DISABLE_D3D12: Disables DirectX12
    There are also D3D11, D3D10, D3D9 options too 
  PROTON_HIDE_NVIDIA_GPU=1: Tells the game you have an AMD GPU instead of Nvidia
    The default setting is that Proton hides the GPU, so this option here is superfluous. 
  -force-d3d11: forces usage of DirectX11
    This is already going to happen because you disabled DirectX12

Here is the sane equivalent line

  PROTON_DISABLE_D3D12=1 %command%
      Alternatively
  %command% -force-d3d11

People are copy pasting settings and sharing but not actually looking at any docs. Disabling DirectX12 is going to give you a pretty good success rate of making a game work if it doesn't work out of the box.

Here's a useful resource for understanding the settings. Use this before you ask the AI: https://github.com/GloriousEggroll/proton-ge-custom

Also, let's be clear about what those rankings mean on ProtonDB

  Native: Just works
    i.e. Devs are cool
  Platinum: Just works (but is using Proton) 
    i.e. Valve has got this shit handled
  Gold: Works but you either need to use proton experimental or change an option that someone has already figured out. 
    i.e. Community has figured it out, Valve is tweaking. 
      Note that many people are on Proton Experimental by default so possibly that's why it "just works" for them.
  Silver: Very likely to work with a setting someone has listed. 
    i.e. Community and Valve working on it
  Bronze: People are figuring it out, leave it to your friends that know Linux 
    i.e. Sorry, you're probably out of luck. Leave it to the tinkerers
  Borked: Publisher is actively working against the community. 
    i.e. EA hates you

I'm not trying to say everything works on Linux. It doesn't. But let's also not pretend that it is worse than it is. That's the same error in the other direction. Linux is not the right choice for everyone, but it is a good choice for many people.

You're implying that 'clicking the cog icon > properties > and then copy pasting some text into a text box' is overly burdensome. To be frank, if you believe that then not only is Linux not for you, but neither are computers, and I really really am curious why you're on a website called "Hacker News".

▲ Macha 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

MMOs are actually fine. WoW, FFXIV, RuneScape, all work great on Linux. They’re not really games that rely on hidden information, are not pvp first and need to simulate stuff on the server anyway, so can verify moves are valid there.

It’s the competitive progression shooters and ranked esports games that go in for the restrictive anti-cheat

▲ nhhvhy 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Even within competitive shooters there’s still plenty that run great on Linux. 90% of my time spent gaming is on Overwatch or CS2, and I’ve found that both ran significantly better on my Debian 13 installation than they ever did on Win11.

	▲	godelski 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		And it's worth noting that CS2 is still the most played game on Steam. It has double the players of the second most played game, Dota 2, which also works on Linux. And that has double the player base of the number 3 game, Arc Raiders, which also works great on Linux. The idea that you'll be missing out is ill founded. Yes, there are some games that won't work. PUBG, Bongo Cat, Rust[0], and EA Sports FC 26 are the ones on the top 10 multiplayer list. But it's also not like you don't have plenty of massively popular games to choose from. I'll even say don't switch to Linux, just stop playing these abusive games. Honestly, if you're unwilling to change OSes but willing to do this then people that want to jump ship can. We all win from this behavior. Even you as it discourages Windows from shoving in more junk and discourages publishers like EA from shoving in massive security vulnerabilities like rootkits. I mean we've all seen how glitchy many AAA games are, you really think their other software isn't going to be just as unpolished and bug ridden? [0] Apparently works with Linux servers? https://www.protondb.com/app/252490 P.S. If anyone wants to check for yourself: `- Steam Multiplayer by rankings: https://steamdb.info/charts/?tagid=3859 - Proton Support: https://www.protondb.com/`

▲ ectospheno 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I switched to console gaming years ago. I can still play any major release while having whatever OS I want on my computers.

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Gracana 5 hours ago | parent [-]

I did this and was happily Windows-less for quite a few years. I ended up building a PC with a big GPU and so I switched back to PC gaming with a Windows installation alongside Linux, but I still think the console route is a great option.

	▲	int_19h 37 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		At this point, I think quite a few people are basically treating their Windows desktop as a console.

▲ phr4ts 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>It's unfortunate but at the same time if enough people switch to Linux then they'll be forced to change their ways.

Nope. Not Nadella. He'll kill windows in a heartbeat.

▲ johnnyanmac 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>Sometimes we need to make a stand. Everyone has a line, where's yours?

I just don't really play multiplayer to begin with. So I was never on the spectrum.

But tens of millions are. They won't even be aware of what's happening. That's why this remains.

▲ seanw444 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

But standing on principle is too hard!

▲ jsheard 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> which the Linux wrappers (mostly the wine project) refuse to support for security reasons.

It's more that there's no sensible way they could do it even if they wanted to. Emulating the Windows kernel internals is well beyond the scope of what WINE is trying to do, and even if they did do it, there would be no way for the anticheat vendors to tell the difference between the AC module being sandboxed for compatibility versus sandboxed as a bypass technique. Trying to subvert the AC in any way is just begging to get banned, even if it's for beingn reasons.

▲ RamRodification 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As a competitive old school arena FPS guy, I have also had a very hard time getting the same smoothness and low latency (input, output, whatever it is) on Linux. The games I play are very fast and twitchy, and milliseconds matter.

There seems to be too many layers and variables to ever get to the bottom of it. Is it the distro itself? Is it a Wayland vs. X11 thing? Is it the driver? The Proton version? Some G-SYNC thing? Some specific tweak that games based on this game engine needs?

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cobar 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I've had better luck since the switch to Wayland. I don't play many FPS games but mouse input & overall smoothness for strategy games has been great. Check your mouse settings, you might need to set a higher USB sample rate. Piper is a frontend for adjusting them.

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eertami 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I know what you mean, though I have a device running SteamOS though and it runs extremely smoothly, the latency is no different than my windows PC (on titles where it can achieve the same framerate).

I'm sure that it must be possible to replicate whatever optimisations SteamOS has on other distros, but unfortunately I am not sure what those are exactly.

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hparadiz 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You should only ever be using Wayland from now on.

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bigyabai 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Is it a Wayland vs. X11 thing?

Yes, most likely. Without a compositor I get lots of stuttering on x11, whereas KDE and GNOME's wayland sessions are both buttery smooth out of the box.

Might be my Nvidia GPU, but I've never gotten x11 to work flawlessly for gaming.

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simoncion 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> Without a compositor I get lots of stuttering on x11... Might be my Nvidia GPU, but I've never gotten x11 to work flawlessly for gaming.

Weird. I don't use KDE's compositor, and -AFAIK- WindowMaker doesn't have one. When in either KDE or in WindowMaker I don't have stuttering with either fullscreen, borderless "fullscreen", or windowed games... everything is as smooth as it is in Windows. Having said that, I do know that -when using KDE- some fullscreen games get jittery as all shit if a notification pops up and remain that way until the notification disappears. I expect that that performance problem would go away if I was using the compositor... but I don't want to spend the VRAM on it.

I use AMD graphics cards, so it might be an Nvidia thing that you're seeing. It also might be a "Your Linux distro simply stopped shipping good xorg installs" thing. I'm running Gentoo Linux which continues to ship updated versions of xorg and supporting software. [0]

[0] I've heard people running Debian and Debian-derived distros report X11 behavior that absolutely does not match what I've been seeing for years... so some percentage of the "X11 can't do $THING" when it really, really can must be coming from distros that ship either dramatically out-of-date or severely crippled xorg installs.

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hparadiz 2 hours ago | parent [-]

X11 has basically no development anymore. That means regressions are entirely ignored.

I switched my Gentoo box from X11 to Wayland three years ago at this point.

It's shocking that people still install X11 as a default in 2026 except with very old hardware.

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simoncion an hour ago | parent [-]

> X11 has basically no development anymore.

Odd. Every few months, I see a new xorg-server version in my distro's package manager.

> That means regressions are entirely ignored.

Should I ever actually have a problem, and it's something that I can't (or CBA to) fix, and my distro's maintainers don't want to try to fix (and then tell me that upstream will never fix), then I'll look more closely at XLibre. XLibre may or may not be a dumpster fire at that point, who knows? If it is a dumpster fire, then I'll look around for other alternatives.

> It's shocking that people still install X11 as a default in [TYOOL]

Nah. It works fine for what I'm doing. I don't do anything that depends on Wayland. The shocking thing would be if I were to waste a ton of time chasing the new shiny... especially when those responsible for the new shiny have been lying for the past 10+ years about how it's ready for everyone's general use. [0]

[0] Perhaps it's ready now, after nearly eighteen years in development. I can't rely on the statements of those responsible for the project to tell me, and I CBA to go searching for (and evaluating the trustworthiness of) information on the topic.

	▲	hparadiz 42 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		> Odd. Every few months, I see a new xorg-server version in my distro's package manager. Yea these are security updates but the eco system requires a lot of desktop manager scaffolding in user space. That has basically stopped. It's baffling why you would run X11 today. The X11 emulation layer for Wayland works great too by the way. Just as one example when you screen share from discord or zoom or Google meets there's now a pop-up that asks you to select the screen or window you wish to latch on to for streaming. This provides some security. With X11 anything can just take a screenshot at any time. Sure that's convenient but so many apps don't even support X11 anymore. As someone that made the switch three years ago I get how you might think the old system is better but in reality you haven't tried the new one so you don't really have a way to compare. I noticed so many quality of life fixes that I can't even imagine running X11 anymore.

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simoncion 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> The games I play are very fast and twitchy, and milliseconds matter.

Out of curiosity, what games are those? I wonder if I also play a subset of them.

▲ aqme28 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> That's because almost all of the big players in that space

To the OP's point-- there are soooo many games nowadays, that if you and your friend group can skip some of those "big players," there are still hundreds of multiplayer games to play.

▲ bikelang 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Even PVP is starting to “just work” via Proton. Arc Raiders runs just fine on Linux and is a strictly PvP game. Over time I think this will be less and less of a problem.

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TulliusCicero 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Arc Raiders is a PvPvE game, like most extraction shooters.

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Draiken 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Still has an anti-cheat, they just bothered to allow Linux support.

Companies don't do this out of laziness/incompetence, but even some large anti-cheats work on Linux and some games simply choose to not enable it (cough, Tarkov, cough). Their problem, I'm no longer gonna play games that don't work on Linux.

Funnily enough the best FPS game ever (Counter-Strike) runs absolutely fine on Linux. Thanks Valve!

	▲	int_19h 34 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		As far as I know, all the anti-cheat options for Linux are not kernel-level, which means that they are drastically less effective at their intended purpose. That's why so many competitive multiplayer games choose to not enable it.

▲ jmusall 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

BattlEye works on linux nowadays, so there definitely is progress in this direction!

▲ estimator7292 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Vote with your wallet, as the saying goes. If you quit paying money for the privilege of installing a rootkit, maybe they'll stop selling rootkits.

	▲	johnnyanmac 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Lot of wallets are voting for AC, sadly. Sometimes the tyranny of the majority is a real thing.

▲ simoncion 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> ...which the Linux wrappers (mostly the wine project) refuse to support for security reasons.

I mean, several of the major anticheats can be configured to work just fine on Linux. [0] It's up to the game dev whether or not it's permitted. So, yeah, unless the game is one where its dev makes huge blog posts about how "advanced" its anti-cheat is (like Valorant or the very latest CoD/Battlefield games) it's quite likely that multiplayer games will work just fine on Linux.

And if they don't, and the faulty game is a new purchase on Steam, then ask for a refund and tell them that the game doesn't work with your OS. Easy, peasy.

[0] I have 100% solid, personal knowledge that Easy Anti Cheat can work on Linux. On Linux, I play THE FINALS, Elden Ring, and a couple of other EAC-"protected" games without any troubles. I have perhaps-unreliable memories that at least one of the games I play uses Denuvo, which is only sometimes used as anti-cheat but does use many of the same techniques as kernel-mode anticheat.

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jsheard 5 hours ago | parent [-]

> I have 100% solid, personal knowledge that Easy Anti Cheat can work on Linux.

That's no secret, but the catch is that the Linux version is much, much easier to bypass. That's why some developers choose not to enable it, or in the case of Apex Legends, enabled it but later backtracked and disabled it again.

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Draiken 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> That's why some developers choose not to enable it

That's an excuse. It's mostly incompetence or more often than not the company doesn't think it's worth the effort. With more Linux users, the balance will eventually shift from "fuck them" to "we have to figure out a way".

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int_19h 32 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Kernel-level anti-cheats are considerably more complicated to make for Linux for obvious reasons like lack of ABI stability in kernel space.

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johnnyanmac 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Well yeah, it always comes down to money. Even on an indie level Linux support is a commitment.

https://reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/e2ww5s/mike_rose_linux...

Now if you do care about quality, having a committed, technical audience giving quality big reports is a godsend. But that's not where we are this decade rife with layoffs and rampant outsourcing in the industry.

	▲	deaddodo 43 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		You’re posting an argument from 6 years ago. Not including Steam OS, the Linux market share has almost quadrupled since then (to ~3.2%); including Steam OS, it’s up to ~24%. And continues to trend upwards. You also don’t need to arbitrarily support Linux. It’s not difficult to say “this has only been tested on Fedora, Ubuntu, POP, and SteamOS; other distributions are unsupported officially”.

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simoncion 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> ...but the catch is that the Linux version is much, much easier to bypass.

Shrug. Rumor has it that the Windows version is already fairly trivial to bypass.

	▲	dleslie 4 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Oh, it absolutely is; if your product doesn't update its EAC bits regularly then it may as well not use EAC at all. Even still, there are known ways around it.

▲ logicchains 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The greatest PvP game, DOTA, works on Linux, and once you get hooked on that you'll never want to play another PvP game.