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computerex 4 hours ago

People only pirate games because the publishers make it too painful to play games legally. I have pirated games that I own simply because it's easier to play. This pattern has been shown time and time again. When people pirate, it's usually due to a problem with the experience. People pay for convenience.

Now a days a lot of people are pirating games because the quality of games has gone down the drain. Publishers are releasing unfinished games and pricing them at record high. Consumers are pissed at the lack of value.

oriolid 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I'm not completely convinced. When I was a teenager I pirated games because I didn't have money (and games were incredibly expensive back in the day). The people who I copied them from did it to show off their collection and connections, or just because they were my friends.

buran77 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

For people who have no money to spare for games it really doesn't matter if games come with DRM or not. They wouldn't afford them anyway so "for free" is the only option that matters.

For people who have money for games but don't want to pay, the presence of DRM matters very little. 99% of games are usually trivially cracked, especially if you are willing to wait for some days or weeks after launch (an important sales window for the publishers).

For people who have money for games and are willing to pay, DRM turns out to be maybe an inconvenience, but definitely a guarantee that they don't actually own the game. The game can be taken away or even just modified in a way that invalidates the reason people paid in the first place.

mindcandy 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> especially if you are willing to wait for some days or weeks after launch (an important sales window for the publishers).

“Important” is an understatement. Even for long-term success stories, the first three or four months often accounts for half of a game’s revenue.

And, despite so many people theorizing that “pirates don’t have money and wouldn’t pay anyway”, in practice big publishers wait in dread of “Crack Day” because the moment the crackers release the DRMless version, the drop in sales is instant and dramatic.

fwipsy 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Do you have a source for sales data when a crack becomes available? If so, that seems like definitive proof that piracy does affect sales.

badsectoracula 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I'm not completely convinced. When I was a teenager I pirated games because I didn't have money

Yes, but if it was impossible to pirate, you'd still have no money to buy the games, so in the grand scheme of things nothing would change.

andrepd 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The thing is teenagers or poor people or people from third world countries that pirate for financial reasons just would not buy those games regardless. I'm unconvinced that those pirates affect sales in the end to any meaningful degree.

NegativeLatency 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Also teenagers grow up eventually having money to buy the games on their own.

I’m a Diablo and StarCraft fan because of pirated games played during my childhood when I couldn’t convince my parents to let me buy them.

Ygg2 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As a broke ass teenager, yeah I didn't pay for them. Now as big money adult I bought them almost 1.5 times over. Once on GoG and sometimes on Steam.

nurettin 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

When I was a kid, piracy was the norm. If your friend had a game you liked, you would just grab the tape, go home, insert into the recorder and make a copy. I didn't know about buying games or what I did was bad until well into the 90s.

technothrasher 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> I didn't know about buying games or what I did was bad until well into the 90s.

Really? When we were pirating games off each other as teenagers in the early 80s, we absolutely knew we were getting games for free that the publishers wanted us to pay for.

jamespo 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

No, paying nothing is very compelling for a lot of consumers, you can see this in many other areas of content as well.

Mathnerd314 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Research from the University of Amsterdam’s IViR “Global Online Piracy Study” (survey of nearly 35,000 respondents across 13 countries) found that for each content type and country, 95% or more of pirates also consume content legally, and their median legal consumption is typically twice that of non‑pirating legal users.

rvnx 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Fun fact, this study was financed by YouTube to create a legal shield.

In 2017/2018, they were in the position where MPAA and RIAA were saying: "Piracy costs us billions; Google must pay" + they had European Parliament on their ass.

Google financed that 'independent' study to support the view "Piracy is not harmful and encourages legal spend".

So the credibility of "independent" studies, is something to consider very carefully.

fn-mote 3 hours ago | parent [-]

My real world observations agree with the direction of the study, so I don’t entirely dismiss it as fake based on its funding source.

I am cautious about the conclusion, though. It seems clear there is a spectrum from “unscrupulously pirate everything” to “consume legitimately after pirated discovery”, and quantification is necessary.

eviks 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Why do you think this contradicts anything? Heavy users hit a budget limit and continue consuming more via pirating.

You really need something way better than some shoddy survey to counter the obvious fact that price matters

afiori 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yeah but if a pirate would have not paid the full price why care? It is by definition not a lost sale, the most likely outcome is just an increase by one the player count

eviks an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Because the price isn't binary? Also, the total spend isn't fixed either, it depends on how easy it's to pirate. So it's by definition still lost revenue, even if later/at reduced price

Tarball10 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not paying full price is not a "lost sale". People unwilling to pay full price wait for a discount or price reduction. Look at how popular the seasonal Steam sales are. Pirating the game very likely means they never purchase it at any price, which _is_ a lost sale.

hsjdndvvbv 15 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

There is more to this RE: perceived value of respective sides.

Edit: missed a word

danaris 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It contradicts the post it was replying to, which was saying, effectively, that people don't want to spend any money on stuff.

I don't think it's required to be making some universal point when you clearly respond to the argument put forward in the post you reply to, do you?

eviks 2 hours ago | parent [-]

No, you misunderstood the comment, it said that paying nothing is compelling, not that paying something was inconceivable or something; it was a response to a comment with a common misconception that pirating is only some "service problem"

rvnx 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Before it was really expensive and difficult to get access to movies or music. Then came Netflix or Spotify. So money is the primary discriminator now, not access. And users without money would not bring revenue anyway

basisword 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>> I have pirated games that I own simply because it's easier to play.

Can you share some examples of instances where the legal route is too difficult? I haven't felt this way in a long time. What are the changes necessary for you to purchase?

yeputons an hour ago | parent | next [-]

One does not have a debit/credit card at all (e.g. they're young, or don't have enough documents, or are an immigrant from a sanctioned country).

Alternatively, the card is rejected because "fraud prevention", see e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46424584

Or the game is not available in my "account's region", which is chosen arbitrarily based on God knows what.

crtasm 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They say they own the game so presumably did purchase it.

Not having to deal with Ubisoft/similar game launchers frequently forgetting my login, nagging to update itself, etc. is one reason I might choose to run a cracked copy.

afiori 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The main reason that Russia had a fame for pirating a lot of software was that a lot of publishers either skipped it as a market or did shitty localisations and pirates offered a far better service.

andoando 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

No they don't. I am tired of this feel good nonsense. I pirated games because it was free and I did not want to pay $60.

Just make your games a donation model if you really believe this. Or lets put up a version of Steam where all the games are free cracked copies of the game and see how it affects sales.

People pay precisely because they dont want to deal with the hassle pf pirating

stavros 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I can pirate games easily, but I buy them on Steam because it's more convenient. If it's too expensive for me, I just never play it (or wait for a deal). I can't be bothered dealing with the installers and the potential viruses and the hassle.

walletdrainer 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I’m fabulously wealthy and still mostly pirate things just because I can’t be bothered dealing with online credit card payments.

Half the time I try to sign up for any of these services I get blocked for fraud because I’m in one country, my billing address in another and my bank in a third. Oh, and when something does work, it only works for a while until they lock the whole account with a bunch of paid content on it.

andoando 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>because it's more convenient

Yes, now imagine if we just removed the barrier to piracy completely. An easy to use client just like Steam, except all the games are free cracked copies.

There is no way thats not going to drop sales.

afiori 2 hours ago | parent [-]

What has been proven many times is that people overwhelmingly choose the least effort/risk option.

A free Steam full of certified pirates games with official games updates would obviously drop sales but this is moot as it will never exist.

Tarball10 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Isn't that exactly what companies use as justification for DMCA and DRM protection?

Without those, you'd have sites full of pirated game downloads easily found through search engines. DMCA takedowns force those sites into shady corners of the internet, making them harder to find and riskier for the average user. And (effective) DRM makes users have to wait for a crack which may take weeks or months.

The result is that it's easier for the average person to just log into Steam/Epic/PSN/eShop and spend $60 to play immediately.

pfisch 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You really can't though, not if the games have an online component or you want the game to be patched/updated as frequently as it would be on steam.

Almost all games these days are basically like a work in progress, so if you pirate them then the game doesn't stay up to date.

Pirating games is just really inconvenient compared to tv/movies/music.

afiori 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If someone pirates 100 60$ games it does not mean that had piracy been impossible they would have spent 6000$ on those games

Tarball10 2 hours ago | parent [-]

They might spend $600 on 10 of those games, though. It's not all-or-nothing.

nh23423fefe 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

thieves lie to protect their self-image. i pirated because free games let me spend my money on stuff i couldn't steal like food at the mall.

i don't pirate anymore because i have a job now.

danielbln 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Copyright infringement is not stealing, and it's not a given that a sale would have happened at all - even if the llicit copy was unavailable.