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Arthur Conan Doyle explored men’s mental health through Sherlock Holmes(scienceclock.com)
112 points by PikelEmi 5 hours ago | 108 comments
tossandthrow 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> One of those taboo subjects was male vulnerability and mental health problems.

(emphasis is mine)

I would argue that still in 2025 this is an extreme and institutionalized taboo.

apples_oranges 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I neither like the taboo nor the opposite. Too much psychology talk in every day life, everyone is traumatised and has unresolved issues etc. That may be, but I wish we would handle it all more privately...

tossandthrow an hour ago | parent | next [-]

This is a valid take. But we need to apply it evenly on the entire society.

If we fill up the public discourse with the issues and wants of women and make the issues and wants of men a private matter this will skew the public understanding of the stance of women and men - we see this hardcore these days with boys and men being villainized, made invisible and made suspicious only due to their gender.

From here we have two ways forward: Either make sure that mens issues gain a proportionate part of the public discourse or argue that all issues are a private matter.

pxc 8 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[delayed]

21asdffdsa12 12 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I deeply dislike the inherent ideology of psychology. Liberalism, the idea of a health individual does not pay any idea to the shared whole, suffering which may be "noble" for the common good and rights and privileges awarded for suffering in such. I find such a ideologically loaded construct and the inherent biases (idealizations and an inability to talk about the cultural framework and tradeoffs) quite unhelpful for understanding, helping and as a basis for societal meta-communications.

wiseowise an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Too much psychology talk in every day life

I'm curious to hear how often do you hear it in every day life outside of the internet.

walthamstow 14 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

At work, like all the time? Empowerment, values, growth mindset, psychological safety, mindfulness, emotional intelligence...

asmor 7 minutes ago | parent [-]

Half of these aren't people talking about mental health problems, but preconditions for mental health. That's your problem?

walthamstow 6 minutes ago | parent [-]

When did I say I had a problem? And when did the subject change from psychological language to mental health conditions?

tossandthrow an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In all fairness, the internet is for many people a near 100% part of their life.

Especially for people working remotely without a family.

koakuma-chan 6 minutes ago | parent [-]

HN is like 70% of my life.

sho_hn an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

It definitely does feel like every American I know "has a therapist", sometimes.

bear141 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I used to think that therapists were ridiculous. But after having one for six or seven years now, I realize that it’s literally just someone you pay to help you be the happiest and best version of yourself. Maybe everyone doesn’t need that, but I don’t think anyone is inherently always the best version of themselves. What’s the point of not trying to be a little better?

saghm 12 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I feel like the world would be a much better place if literally everyone did have a therapist. Having a neutral, trained professional you talk you for 45 minutes twice a month about things that are tough in your life is not something that should alarm people, but being vehemently against it honestly kind of is...

21asdffdsa12 6 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

The digestion juices of individualistic society?

null_deref 25 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What do you mean by “has a therapist”? Do they just mention it in passing, or do they bring up takeaways from their sessions in everyday conversation? If it’s the latter, I’m not sure that’s really about mental-health openness. It feels more like a broader social habit, the need to present yourself as someone who’s constantly working on every aspect of your life. That’s a different modern-society quirk altogether.

n4r9 15 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

How is it different to having a personal trainer for your physical fitness?

GJim 10 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

I recall when I first visited the USA and walked into an American bookshop...

... the selves of 'self-help' books I found utterly bizarre. It was very much an eye-opener into the differences of our cultures.

zozbot234 7 minutes ago | parent [-]

"Self-help" is more like a modern folk religion than anything to do with actual psychology.

analog8374 10 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

99% of public human interaction is battles for dominance (ego, status, politics...). Which is gross. When psychology enters the conversation it gets even grosser.

If we want the discussion to become less gross I'm afraid we'll have to remove most of the people from the conversation.

joshcsimmons 13 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That's right.

I built and released a game called Autism Simulator recently. Online feedback was overwhelmingly positive but with plenty of gaslighting sprinkled in, e.g. "everybody's a bit autistic", "that just sounds like working in tech".

Minimization is always the default go-to for men's mental health issues.

nephihaha 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

What do they mean by "vulnerability" here? There is this constant redefinition of words. In mainstream usage, "vulnerability" is not a good thing as it means you are open to problems and can easily be attacked. They presumably mean it in the sense of being "open to your own emotions" or tender. Silly misuse of words for a serious subject.

tene80i 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It’s not a misuse - it’s exactly the intended meaning and it is perfectly common in mainstream usage.

Allowing yourself to be vulnerable means you are indeed open to attack. But it is also a large part of emotional connection. The alternative is being a fortress - with all the relationship problems that entails.

The very fact that you see vulnerability as “bad” is a perfect example of what that language is intended to highlight.

mewpmewp2 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Is vulnerable about letting people know how you feel or your weaknesses?

What about letting people know how you feel and your weaknesses while not caring if someone judges you for it? Is that being vulnerable or not?

lazide 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

If you are under attack, vulnerability is bad.

Historic ‘stoic male’ personas existed for a reason. Because in many situations, it works. Despite the complaining.

And being less ‘emotionally connected’ is valuable when people use that connection to exploit or hurt you. A very common experience for many men.

That people (especially women) then complain you won’t open up to them is a riot in those situations because it’s like someone complaining you keep putting on your bullet proof vest - while they keep shooting at you.

Historic male mental health issues also resulted. But notably, folks depending on the stoic persona for their own wellbeing would typically throw you under the bus for those issues too.

“How dare you get mad! You’re a dangerous threat!” says the person constantly harassing the person, or the boss putting you in worse and worse work conditions while pretending they are doing you a favor, etc.

They do that, of course, because mad people actually fight back. But if you need the job or are dependent on the relationship…

As many men have experienced, the only way to ‘win’ is shut off caring about what people say on that front - among other emotions.

watwut an hour ago | parent | next [-]

> Historic ‘stoic male’ personas existed for a reason.

What are you talking about here. "Historic male persona" differs between periods and places, but anger, friendships and happiness are basically always parts of it.

Odysseus "weeps" and "cries". The whole romantic era was about overly emotional, passionate and sensitive guys.

andersonpico 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> (especially women)

It's always about that isn't it? Not getting the reaction you want, vilifying your interlocutor, then run crying with fingers in your ears screaming "lalala I didn't want it anyway" and declaring yourself a stoic is really indicative of the type of people who in the present day call themselves stoics.

This whole thread is just a long-winded version of redpill discourse, people who can see past minor adolescent romantic mishaps.

How pathetic is it to still model your whole life after women while pretending to be an isle of self-reliance? Men really are lost.

triceratops an hour ago | parent [-]

I didn't see any vilification of women. Women value sharing and emotional vulnerability. It's how they bond with other women, who make up the bulk of their friends. Men's experiences with other men, the bulk of their friends, often make them wary of being emotionally vulnerable. Hence, naturally, a disconnect when a man and a woman are establishing a relationship.

zozbot234 an hour ago | parent [-]

Women value sharing and emotional vulnerability, but typically not from the males in their lives. There is a significant disconnect between average women and genuine male emotions, and males are expected to show emotional resilience and self-control first and foremost precisely to bridge that gap and then allow the 'sharing' to occur unimpeded, though still in a somewhat controlled way.

amanaplanacanal 17 minutes ago | parent [-]

It's possible you are hanging around with the wrong women.

falcor84 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't think there's any redefinition here, and it's exactly this dichotomy that makes this a big issue. Vulnerability is indeed not "a good thing", but the issue is that the struggle to constantly keep yourself invulnerable at all times is a "worse thing", leading to many stress-related issues (amongst other problems). So the modern psychological advice, as I understand it, is to find particular people, spaces and opportunities where we can let our guard down, even at the risk of being open to attack, because the alternative is worse.

There's a stoic quote I love:

> our ideal wise man feels his troubles, but overcomes them

- Seneca, Moral letters to Lucilius/Letter 9 https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Moral_letters_to_Lucilius/Let...

The way I see it, if you never let yourself be vulnerable, you can never fully feel your troubles, and you cannot fully overcome them.

mewpmewp2 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I guess the question is -> why do we need that guard in the first place?

Is this about other people being immature or looking to abuse us? Is this something that generally goes beyond school?

Joeboy 7 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> Is this something that generally goes beyond school?

The things that make you vulnerable change depending on what year and situation you're in. I can very much get behind the idea that you should consider whether your legacy sense of what makes you vulnerable is relevant to your current circumstances. I'm not so much behind the "freely dispense the rope people will use to hang you" version.

mewpmewp2 2 minutes ago | parent [-]

There's a lot of abstraction in this thread, but I would like to hear specifics.

What are the exact vulnerabilities that we are talking about?

From my side I guess I can say I frequently feel like impostor type of things. I won't mention that at work, but I definitely share those feelings to my partner.

I would hate not being able to share something like that to my partner for instance.

I wonder what others are talking about?

ben_w 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Is this about other people being immature or looking to abuse us? Is this something that generally goes beyond school?

Yes to both.

Psychopaths do to everyone what everyone does to out-groups, and we're all someone else's out-group.

akimbostrawman 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You really don't need to reach that far. As a man if you are too often vulnerable, too much, for the wrong reasons or at the wrong time you will loose the respect of your partner and soon after there love.

mewpmewp2 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I guess that would depend on the partner? And what do you mean by vulnerability in that context that would make her lose respect?

And what do you mean by wrong times or reasons?

zozbot234 an hour ago | parent [-]

Most people seek emotional support, resilience and trustworthiness from their partner, and being excessively "vulnerable" can definitely hinder you from playing that role effectively. This is what can sometimes be experienced as a loss of respect. What you really want is to show a mere modicum of emotional vulnerability that your partner can then have some opportunity to empathize with, and not view you as overly brittle. But not more than that.

mewpmewp2 an hour ago | parent [-]

What could be examples of excessive vulnerability?

squigz 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not everyone's partner is that shallow.

akimbostrawman 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Exceptions don't invalidate the rule. Everybody thinks there partner isn't right until they are.

squigz 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Your experiences don't validate the rule, either.

akimbostrawman 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Right I forgot we are on HN where we even need a scientific paper on "do women like weak vulnerable or strong confident men?" because nobody ever goes outside.

zozbot234 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I bet that people who advocate for showing "vulnerability" are modeling this as a facet of strong confidence, and not opposed to it. But the thing is, if you really have reached the level of effortless confidence where that's a realistic prospect, you won't need that advice! You'll just be able to intuitively calibrate how much "vulnerability" to allow others, as a direct outcome of that strong emotional stability. Most people would probably be better off being told to be a little bit more guarded about their emotions.

TRiG_Ireland 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think you're working too hard to be pithy and are therefore forgetting to actually communicate.

mewpmewp2 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What are some things that make a man seem vulnerable?

squigz 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Not really, it's just that most of us are adults who have experiences with healthy adult relationships. "Is my partner going to leave me if I display emotional vulnerability" is not really a concern in healthy, adult relationships.

vintermann an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Differences between men and women are down to the situation.

Sometimes the long situation. When a situation has lasted a long time, it sticks, and turns into culture, gender roles.

When a situation has lasted a really long time, it sticks hard, and becomes biology.

But most of the time, it's neither culture or biology which decides what men and women do. It's the immediate situation.

And even if you think it's culture, even if you think it's biology, if you don't like how men are (or how women are) you have to start with changing the immediate situation. The others will follow - eventually.

akimbostrawman 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

An actual adult realizes the real world differences between "should not" and "will not".

squigz 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I'm not sure what this is trying to say? Can you elaborate please?

andersonpico 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

divorced dad take

akimbostrawman 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Crazy cat lady take. See I can make useless remarks too.

andersonpico 2 hours ago | parent [-]

your whole text above is useless for everyone but you, but I understand you can't contain how you feel about woman

mewpmewp2 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I think some concrete examples would be great. I think we need some examples of vulnerability too. Is vulnerability just about showing your actual emotional state? E.g. if you are depressed, anxious or nervous?

Tarks 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

My take is you've got the right reasoning but the wrong conclusion, I agree with your contextless definition of vulnerability and with the use of it in this context, vulnerability makes people vulnerable, by definition.

From my experience, the reason you'd risk being vulnerable is there are some things you can't achieve without doing so, it'd be like trying to do surgery with a scalpel on someone wearing platemail, or trying to detect radiation with a Geiger counter behind 20 meters of lead, for some tools to work properly they're required to be in a position where they're 'vulnerable', like eyes.

I think it's sad that performative emotions & vulnerability seem to be a popular thing to have to signal for acceptance. Which in my opinion is worse than nothing as at least when you're not faking something it's easier to agree that you haven't really tried it.

andersonpico 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> I think it's sad that performative emotions & vulnerability seem to be a popular thing to have to signal for acceptance.

You only think it's performative because you think people are signaling. They're not and performative anything is not required for acceptance, but people are not accepting of others who deal with their social interaction in these terms and your very language betrays where you stand. These imaginary requirements for affection are not what's sad here.

Tarks 41 minutes ago | parent [-]

> You only think it's performative because you think people are signalling

You're correct that I think something because I think something else. You're assuming I'm unwilling or unable to tell the difference.

I don't see a betrayal to state that I think it's a shame that people that have copied a performative action, gotten nothing out of it and are then hesitant to try again because they feel they've already tried that avenue and had bad results. It's the same feeling of sadness I get when people have tried therapy, for whatever reason haven't gotten much out of it and then write it off as a sham.

I do get that you're saying 'aha ! I've detected your true intent through my clever analysis of your language' - consider your assumption "You only think it's performative because you think people are signaling. They're not"

They're not? You can state absolute facts with confidence about the people I've experienced in my life that you don't know anything about? That is either some amazing superpower or regular old conjecture.

It might help you to notice how many times I said I think or in my opinion, and how many absolutes you're willing to state.

oersted 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think you are projecting the sense of the word from computer security onto people. But "vulnerability" always has that second sense in common speech, as in "showing vulnerability". If a person is actually open to being harmed in some way we use the phrasing "they are vulnerable to ...", which has quite a different meaning.

m4rtink 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

CVEs basically.

delichon an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> [Holmes] battles with drug addiction, loneliness and depression. His genius thrives in part because of these vulnerabilities, not despite them.

If there was a pill for that, how many masterpieces like the Sherlock Holmes books would never be made? The products of misery have always been the devil's advocate's best arguments. If Doyle had not sympathized with Holmes' afflictions, he could not have written him. Or if he had written Holmes as a Mary Sue we wouldn't have cared. (Though for some reason it worked for Harry Potter.)

An effective education requires a certain amount of torture, and it works better when self inflicted.

joshcsimmons 12 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

This is 100% not true.

> An effective education requires a certain amount of torture, and it works better when self inflicted.

It's the tortured artist myth. You can turn pain into art but it's not a prerequisite.

chuckadams an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

For every tortured genius whose passion comes from pain, there's a hundred who never get started because they lack the energy to get out of bed half the time, are slowly killing themselves with alcohol and other substances, and so on. But a pill alone doesn't fix that -- hell, current research shows most of those pills do no better than a placebo -- so the mythology of the nobility of suffering will continue for some time hence.

(Fun fact, you know that "lorem ipsum" text that's used as filler? It's not nonsense Latin, it's from a speech by Cicero where he denounces the stoic ideal of suffering being good for the soul, or at least "pointless" suffering anyway)

ongy 7 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Do you have a link to research pointing at antidepressants being no better than placebo?

delichon 38 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

> or at least "pointless" suffering anyway

What bulletproof word choice. Robert Harris called Cicero the first modern politician, and that looks right.

JKCalhoun 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not from Doyle, but the film, "The Seven-Per-Cent Solution", presents Holmes as very vulnerable. Especially given the amazing cast, it is an excellent portrayal.

That Holmes would encounter Sigmund Freud seemed to me at the time as a wild use of artistic license. Since then though I have come to believe that there were a lot fewer people on the Earth in general than I could really appreciate at the time, and some of these luminaries may well have shared a drink together. (So why not a fictional luminary as well?)

varjag 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Luminaries also were concentrated in but a few spots of the world at the time: https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21859771

valiant55 23 minutes ago | parent [-]

I'm not sure I'd refer to some of these individuals as "luminaries" which typically has a positive connotation.

mold_aid 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Original source: https://theconversation.com/arthur-conan-doyle-explored-mens...

mold_aid 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Although tbf this is probably one of Linford's undergraduate papers

donkey_brains 2 hours ago | parent [-]

No kidding.

boh an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

We live in a culture of transparency where you are rewarded for confessing your weaknesses. At the time people tackled their issues outside of print, outside of public discourse. Just because there's no record of a person's private life doesn't mean it was taboo. It's just not for you to know about.

podgorniy 20 minutes ago | parent [-]

> We live in a culture of transparency where you are rewarded for confessing your weaknesses.

Where exactly do you observe this?

andreidbr 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I re-read most of the stories a few years ago. It's shocking/surprising/depressing just how many things repeat themselves. From the obvious, veteran of Afghanistan war in the form of Dr. Watson, to London being a melting pot of so many cultures, with high society reigning from ... on high.

I also agree that the view directly into the state of mind of both Watson and Holmes was refreshing.

pjc50 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's notable that the BBC recent adaptation set in the present day was also able to make Watson an Afghanistan veteran.

I read the stories as an child, and seen various of the film adaptations; Holmes became a meme even within Conan Doyle's lifetime, but I'm sure I'd benefit from going back to the source as an adult.

grebc 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Realising current day events rhyme very closely with historical events is pretty eye opening.

It’s a tragedy of the commons we are all largely oblivious as a species.

aitchnyu 4 minutes ago | parent [-]

Is there a better history pedagogy? I remember history as a set of dates and Kings. Only later I learned about Roman demagoguery, the relationship between newly independant India to present day and other topics that teach there is nothing new under the sun.

donkey_brains 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

How did this make it to the top of HN? It’s an extremely facile work and reads exactly like a high school essay: “In having his character consider execution to protect his and his family’s reputation, Doyle explored the societal expectations of Victorian masculinity and how men struggled with such pressures.”

It’s an interesting topic, but the paper makes no revelatory statements and provides a very superficial analysis of Doyle’s work. Hell, it doesn’t even provide a single quote from Holmes to illustrate the mental anguish or “battles with drug addiction” which the author claims that he experiences in the books. Holmes’ 7% “solution of cocaine” usage was never presented as rising to the level of addiction in the books, by the way. Nor does the paper delve into the repressive nature of the Victorian society in which these stories were written and released to show us what was so novel about Doyle allegedly tackling these subjects and why he might have had to merely allude to them rather than discussing them frankly.

All in all, this essay is a poor showing and would have earned the author a C at best in high school English for failing to provide adequate supporting evidence for her assertions.

Aromasin 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I wouldn't be surprised if many of those who upvoted this did so because the agree with the sentiment in principle, not because they read the article and appreciated the contents.

JKCalhoun 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Perhaps it made it to the top of HN because there are a lot of Sherlock Holmes fans here who are curious about some of the nuances of the character not often cited. That the article itself may be lacking in specifics may not be a problem if it has at least whetted the curiosity of a number of us. (And we can then seek out more details, or better still, read the whole series of books with a keener eye.)

mold_aid 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>How did this make it to the top of HN? It’s an extremely facile work and reads >exactly like a high school essay

Asked and answered

bell-cot 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If HNer's want to talk about something, or just feel the topic is important, then a short & weak article is more than good enough to be a sort of seed crystal.

(If you know of better articles on this topic, then please provide links!)

FridayoLeary 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yes, i thought it was silly as well. revisionist analysis such as these are pretty common, though normally better written. You can probably find half a dozen essays with titles like "Sherlock holmes fought against colonial oppression, a deep dive in how Conan doyle covered unpopular and controversial topics in the victorian age". And another 50 essays arguing the opposite point.

FridayoLeary 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I feel like this article is revisionism. The author is making a wild assumption that no male, no matter the circumstances was presented with having issues or trauma in victorian literature. Being nice and sympathetic is also not a concept which was only discovered recently. The article just throws in key words like mental health to make it sound relevant for today.

Maybe the only interesting part is that drug use was considered (barely) socially acceptable and holmes was still respectable. Note that he wasn't an alcoholic.

Shout out to the bbc adaptation which does a fantastic and hilarious job of portraying holmes as an erratic drug addict.

GJim an hour ago | parent | next [-]

> a fantastic and hilarious job of portraying holmes as an erratic drug addict.

Except in Conan Doyle's books, Holmes was a user of cocaine, not an addict.

This desire to portray Holmes as a drug addict says far more about our own times.

niemandhier an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Britain was a very repressed culture at the time and for a long time after this.

An Englishman’s proverbial “stiff upper lip” came to be a cliche for a reason.

“Boarding school syndrome” would be the term coined for the emotional damage that was an educational ideal for a long while.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boarding_school#Psychological_...

mosura an hour ago | parent [-]

Yet the UK was most successful when led by people from that system.

FridayoLeary an hour ago | parent [-]

Was?

The old boys network and class still plays a big role in UK politics. I'm convinced that the behaviour of Boris Johnson and even Starmer is incomprehensible without that unspoken element.

Is it a bad thing? perhaps. Is it a recipe for disaster? I would say the historical evidence is pretty clear that no, not really. It worth pointing out that the US where class is much less important is more successful.

In my head Holmes is descended from minor nobility while Watson is solidly upper middle class.

Now, Labours envy based attacks on the private schools that gave them all their advantages in life helps nobody. It won't matter to rich kids and is just a barrier to success for middle class kids. When you consider the quality of state education, at least there should be some educated people to run the country, even if it's a bad system.

Ot but hogwarts is a great parody of the British boarding school system. A drafty, dangerous castle full of dangerous animals, homicidal, abusive and incompetent teachers, serious injuries are a fact of life and complacent staff. Add in the most incompetent and negligent headmaster in all literature, who hardly does anything throughout the series and thinks that soul sucking demons are an acceptable security measure to protect his students and runs the school as his personal domain. Throw in class based bullying in the student body and you have everything. I always found it striking that the most hatable character in the series is a school inspector (Umbridge).

mosura an hour ago | parent [-]

Starmer or Reeves boarded?

The boarding is the point.

FridayoLeary 43 minutes ago | parent [-]

I reject that. It's the network that's more important. I always found the concept of boarding school odd but that's neither here nor there.

mosura 39 minutes ago | parent [-]

No the whole experience makes or breaks people, which is the idea.

It is like failing fast for people. It looks cruel but in the long run is more honest.

That is not to say the networks from exclusive day schools do not help, they do.

zozbot234 34 minutes ago | parent [-]

It's actually a terrible idea. You're giving the people who "fail fast" no real incentives to fix themselves up and try again, and the people who "succeed" no incentives to do even better in the future. Even aside from how cruel it obviously looks, it's really a recipe for pervasive incompetence and a failed society.

mosura 23 minutes ago | parent [-]

There is no fix yourself and try again.

Again the Brits had their biggest empire when led by this caste of people, which is why their boarding schools get so much overseas business today. To paint that as incompetence or a failed society is wishful thinking - they were the peak of what they could be.

Dumblydorr 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

My personal favorite is The five napoleons. Is someone breaking Napoleonic busts out of some idee fixe? Or is there a motive of crime behind the seemingly delusional behavior?

Archelaos 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I suspect that it is purely a literary invention. The core idea of the story is a variant of the "Adventure of the Blue Carbuncle", where a stolen gem was eaten by a goose. For the new plot, Conan Doyle needed some identical copies of something where a jewel could be hidden. These copies need to be destroyed, in order to reveal the jewel. If you decide on using busts in 1904 for an American and British audience, Napoleon is an ideal candidate: notorious, but not venerated. Imagine what a scandal it might have been if busts of the late Queen Victoria or of Abraham Lincoln had been smashed.

boredhedgehog 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

*six

mosura 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

These people want to frame masculinity as a mental health problem.

afavour 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

If you read the article you’ll discover no, they don’t.

watwut 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Drug addiction, loneliness and depression are masculinity instead of mental health problems? What about suicide?

mosura 2 hours ago | parent [-]

All entirely standard male behaviors.

Just look at history for 30 seconds.

Starman_Jones 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You should probably reconsider putting loneliness and depression on a pedestal here.

mosura an hour ago | parent [-]

Where is this happening?

The whole point is calling them “mental health problems” infers there is something systematically wrong with them as opposed to the obvious result of putting men in modern society.

watwut an hour ago | parent [-]

Previously you said they are basically traditional masculinity and what men always were. Now they are result of modern society?

mosura an hour ago | parent [-]

A man lives by himself in the woods: is he lonely or depressed?

jacquesm an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Are those the only two options? If you think the answer is yes then that suggests a moment of reflection.

mosura 36 minutes ago | parent [-]

I would suggest he is neither.

pjc50 34 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Maybe you should ask him?

krapp an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

It's entirely possible.

watwut 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Mental health issues existing in the past does not mean they are not mental health issues. Besides, most men were neither alcoholics, depressed nor lonely.

Loneliness in particular is neither specifically masculine (like, is not at all specifically masculine, neither in history nor now). Nor is there a reason to believe was more or equal amount of it in the past ... when men were part of in person group pretty much regardless of what they were doing.