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Are consumers just tech debt to Microsoft?(birchtree.me)
132 points by ingve 2 hours ago | 78 comments
rconti an hour ago | parent | next [-]

The web/webapps/mobile helped lead to this era of "desktop PCs" (to include laptops) where the browser mattered more than the OS. It allowed Apple to become resurgent in the desktop market because OS compatibility mattered less than ever.

It's not weird that it led to Apple regaining _some_ market share because clearly there was demand for the Apple/MacOS/OS X experience that may have been tempered by incompatibility in the pre-webapp days.

What _is_ weird, and nonintuitive, is that the (by all accounts) higher-cost vendor would be seen as ascendent in this market. All the more weird for two reasons:

1. The Apple experience, at least on the OS side, matters less and less in the webapp world.

2. Apple isn't trying, either! They're seemingly doing their best to abandon and alienate their desktop OS users. A decade or more of stagnation or regression in features and usability, capped off by Tahoe this year.

It feels like Apple and Microsoft are just waiting for the desktop OS to die, waiting for mobile to take it over; so we can all just shut up and stop asking for filesystems and terminals so they can sell us iPads and Surfaces, and they can finally be free of this ancient burden of selling desktop computer OSes.

And the consumers keep buying the stupid things, demanding product in a market that the vendors don't want any part of.

wongarsu 37 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Apple is at least in part operating like they are a fashion brand. Functionality and usability are secondary to looks. Both in their devices and their software. It's hard to argue they aren't successful with that.

It probably helps that Microsoft has also abandoned usability, just for very different reasons

blitz_skull an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As an Apple Stan, I don’t understand what you’re referring to. MacOS is light years ahead of Windows in so many arenas, I’m not really sure what you could be referring to when you say “stagnation”. Every OS ever released has issues at launch, not sure if that’s what you mean by “regression”.

But man… windows has been garbage for the better part of 2 decades now.

smallmancontrov 10 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

After two decades of relentless effort, Apple has finally managed to make Spotlight as broken and useless as Windows Search where it doesn't find local files and just returns web results.

frameset an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's telling that to defend Apple against the charge of stagnation you immediately attacked Windows.

bestnameever 33 minutes ago | parent [-]

They only attacked Windows at the very end of their statement.

Wololooo 11 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

And I mean... They're not wrong.

I use a Mac for work, but also use windows and Linux machines.

The best experience hands down when it comes to specific things would be Linux, for very niche things because it's way less clunky than it used to and people have figured things out in the meantime.

My mac is the only system that I can mount (without too much pain because people have figured it out) any filesystem, I can virtually open every document from Mac to Windows to Linux. I have something close to package control with homebrew. The M chips are ridiculously good at both being decently performant while low energy consumption.

Sure it has its host of issues and I would be the first one in line to dunk on Apple for many many... many many, reasons, but there are things to like with their laptops...

In comparison, recently, Windows has been more and more aggressive towards their users and their data, attempting to lock people in for some spreadsheet editor... Gone are the days of Lotus1-2-3...

Mountain_Skies 18 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

And the second sentence.

liuliu an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Windows 7 is the last good one. And that is only... Oh, almost 20 years ago. Never mind.

layer8 4 minutes ago | parent [-]

Windows 7 was supported until 10 years ago.

candiddevmike 9 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Snapping and switching windows is light-years ahead of Windows? It only recently became a little more reasonable, and even then they still kept that idiotic full screen mechanic.

riversflow 16 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

> 1. The Apple experience, at least on the OS side, matters less and less in the webapp world.

I see it the opposite. At least for iPhone owners Universal Clipboard and file sharing with Airdrop are killer apps.

bloaf 4 minutes ago | parent [-]

On android, KDE Connect felt great for basic copy/pasting/file transfer between devices.

https://kdeconnect.kde.org/

On iOS, KDE Connect feels like its running a potato sack race with both arms tied behind its back.

qgin an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Nobody seems to want to use Copilot, but Microsoft is in a great position when AGI "drop-in office workers" become a thing. They can just provision however many virtual coworkers to a Microsoft Teams instance and you'll be handing off documents and chatting with the AGI workers pretty much as you would any other remote worker.

Microsoft doesn't have to be first or best here. Just owning the plumbing of so many present-day workplaces with Teams and Office will make it hard to beat them.

TheCraiggers 38 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> Microsoft is in a great position when AGI "drop-in office workers" become a thing

While I don't disagree with you here, that's a helluva big bet. It'll have to happen soon enough that other companies aren't able to pivot in time, and despite what Altman says, I just don't see it happening at that timescale.

mschuster91 33 minutes ago | parent [-]

> While I don't disagree with you here, that's a helluva big bet.

And yet, one that Microsoft has the best chances. Apple has all but zero presence in BigCorp outside of social media and creative teams. Google has its Workspaces thing plus its web wannabe-equivalents to Office, but that's it. And AWS is an infrastructure provider.

Microsoft in contrast? They're everywhere and most importantly, whatever is in Office 365 automatically has the "compliant" checkboxes ticked for auditors. And MS can easily ride the time until AGI or something coming reasonably close to it is marketable on that moat.

mouth 2 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> Apple has all but zero presence in BigCorp outside of social media and creative teams.

Not from my experience. I see product managers/owners and software engineers using Macs more than Windows where I work, and it’s in healthcare, not SV. This move to Mac was gradual, starting ~10 years ago, and I believe a part of this was moving away from native apps to web apps.

bikotreats 7 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

"Apple has all but zero presence in BigCorp outside of social media and creative teams"

Bad take. Apple has a strong presence within the tech and digital agency world. At every company i've worked for (3 tech companies, 1 digital agency), the Macbook is the default issued workstation unless you formally request a Windows laptop.

Some roles, like finance, tax, 3D design, favor Windows but that is generally because certain software they depend on only exists in the Windows world.

Microsoft totally dominates non-tech companies though.

chirau a few seconds ago | parent [-]

Apple's footprint in BigCorp is a drop in the ocean compared to MS. You said it yourself, "certain software they depend on only exists in the Windows world". That is intentional and the reason is because of MS dominance in BigCorp. Most makers don't find it worthwhile to spend so much time and resources building software for Apple when it has so few users at that level.

robotswantdata 39 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

For the average office task they don’t seem far off being competent, at least to the average workers quality.

Ai builder with gpt5 + workflow triggers is very capable already. 1-2 more model generation hops needed plus a bit more “agent” plumbing before its game over for the excel and word jobs.

sevensor 16 minutes ago | parent [-]

Which average office tasks would those be? Writing project proposals? Putting budget numbers into a shared spreadsheet? Composing a progress report? Preparing presentation slides for an executive status update meeting? Writing performance reviews? Taking mandatory compliance training? Going to planning meetings?

One or two of these, I could see. Automated progress reports would be nice. But a lot of them aren’t about document generation, but about human accountability, about being a person who commits to something in writing. Automating away paper pushers means all the accountability lands on their bosses, leaving them nowhere to hide. It will be quite something if we manage to rewrite the corporate social context like this.

candiddevmike 7 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Why don't we see companies adopting this setup with offshore workers if it's that "seamless" and easy to get started?

pulse7 40 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm very happy that "AGI office workers" will use Microsoft products - so I don't have to do it anymore... But: they will not pay a dime for the licenses...

otabdeveloper4 43 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> when AGI "drop-in office workers" become a thing

How many more weeks? Also, is this before or after flying cars?

qgin 36 minutes ago | parent [-]

Looking like 2028-2030 but it's a moving target.

Since we're basically getting flying cars next year at the World Cup, I guess it's going to be after flying cars.

chongli 25 minutes ago | parent [-]

I prefer fusion power as the go-to vapourware technology. It’s been “10-20 years out” for 70 years and counting.

I don’t see any reason to believe that “AGI office workers” will be ready to go by 2030. All signs right now are pointing to a looming plateau in their capabilities.

marcosdumay 10 minutes ago | parent [-]

Fusion has halved the "interval until we get it" on those 50 years. AGI has doubled the "interval until we get it" twice already since 2022.

Those things are not the same kind of vaporware.

jen20 44 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

A new Turing test: when all the AGI worker bots would rather gargle razor blades than use Microsoft Teams, we might be close.

aeve890 39 minutes ago | parent [-]

>use Microsoft Teams

Shit like this make rogue AI scenarios totally plausible. I won't wish that on my worst enemy

PaulHoule 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yeah, this book was hugely influential

https://www.google.com/search?q=innovator%27s+dilemma&ie=UTF...

And came to the conclusion that many firms like DEC and Xerox did not sufficiently move to new technology because their customers were not interested and didn’t feel served by it, at least not until it had decades to improve.

Today we have the FOMO dilemma where executives all read that book and no way they are going to end up like DEC or Xerox so you get things like Windows 8, really a lot of what Microsoft has done since then has been in the same vein. We’re yet to see a “big tech” company die from the FOMO dilemma but maybe 20 years back we’ll see Google or Facebook or Microsoft in that frame.

cameldrv an hour ago | parent | next [-]

This more recently happened to IBM (as a computer manufacturer). If your platform is not accessible to hobbyists, the next generation will not be familiar with it, and when they go get a job, it probably won't be with the technology they don't know. Then, assuming there is a credible alternative, the inaccessible technology will die out in a generation, as we've seen with IBM mainframes.

amelius 10 minutes ago | parent [-]

Yes, many companies even start with hobbyist tools. IBM proves that going all B2B is not a good idea.

The other end of the problem is Apple which is a consumer company, but they prohibit companies to use their hardware for building new things.

Both approaches suck for consumers and/or startups, but Apple's approach at least works for them from a business perspective.

marcosdumay an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Well, almost the entire book is about how companies like DEC and Xerox just could not move to the new technology, whatever their decision makers decided.

I really don't understand the executives that read it and decide that "yeah, we are doing that impossible thing, disregard the sensible alternatives the book shows or thinking of something new!"

blizdiddy an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The “CTO” at my small employer used this book to explain why we needed to stick with Perl and Oracle 9i in 2020.

Spivak 31 minutes ago | parent [-]

It sounds like your CTO took the opposite message of the book. Well the modern interpretation anyway. But can't really argue with not rewriting working code, even the Oracle licensing is probably is probably nothing in terms of cost. Might wanna update to a supported version though.

Legend2440 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You see this happening right now with LLMs. Microsoft, Google, Facebook, etc are incredibly worried about being disrupted. But all they can really do is try to shoehorn AI into their existing products (OSes, search, social media), which is a difficult sell to their existing customers.

Ultimately, LLMs will probably find their place in a new product category instead.

righthand an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Link to Worldcat book information: https://search.worldcat.org/title/1423132421

Alibris link: https://www.alibris.com/The-Innovators-Dilemma-When-New-Tech...

ruined 41 minutes ago | parent [-]

thanks, gp's google link was unusable for me (apparently my activity is unusual)

bitmasher9 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

No, consumers are not tech debt to Microsoft.

Yes, Microsoft is shifting away from consumer technology.

The difference is Microsoft is squeezing every last drop of profit from consumers on their way out. That’s not debt, that’s an asset.

In 25 years Microsoft will be similar to Oracle. Maybe they’ll have investments in some consumer brands, but largely they will be selling to enterprises and governments.

llbbdd 41 minutes ago | parent [-]

I'm young, I'll take that bet. In 25 years windows will still have greater than 50% consumer computer marketshare out of sheer momentum.

Nextgrid 25 minutes ago | parent [-]

I'd be very surprised if "consumer computer" will be anything but a niche thing in 25 years.

llbbdd 10 minutes ago | parent [-]

It might be just a remote UI over "Windows Cloud Eternal" at that point but if by then we've moved to "Apple Forever OS" or "The Eternal Year of the Linux Desktop" I'll make a balanced diet out of hats

bikelang an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I agree that a cheap MacBook and the steam machine are presenting a perfect storm situation for windows to lose some serious marketshare with casual/consumer users. Itll be interesting to see how or even if Microsoft reacts to this.

TitaRusell 38 minutes ago | parent [-]

Microsoft dropping the ball on smartphones is their real problem.

Desktops are on the way out for consumers.

crazygringo an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Number one is that Microsoft just does not feel like a consumer tech company at all anymore.

At least in terms of Windows/Office, Microsoft has never been a consumer tech company. They've always been focused on corporate sales.

There have always been consumer-focused side areas, from Bob to Encarta to MSN to Xbox.

But Microsoft's bread and butter has always been corporations. I don't understand how the author thinks it was different at any time in the past.

GeekyBear an hour ago | parent | next [-]

> Microsoft has never been a consumer tech company.

Windows 95 was definitely consumer tech.

Windows XP was about making the Windows NT line accessible for home users going forward.

Weirdly, Windows Phone was aimed at consumers at a time when they really could have leveraged integrations with products like Exchange and Office to stand out.

tremon 24 minutes ago | parent [-]

They already had Windows CE and ActiveSync, the bane of many an IT support worker. It might be they expected phones to remain consumer-only, and the business world to keep using PDAs.

nobodyandproud an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

They’re angering corporations too.

Those risk-adverse behemoths are slowly coming to terms with Microsoft breaking their platforms and bread-and-butter applications.

d3Xt3r 35 minutes ago | parent [-]

Indeed. Previously, every Patch Tuesday we used to pray that nothing would break in that patch cycle. Now we expect that things _will_ break, but hope that that whatever Microsoft breaks won't affect us, or is something minor, or gets patched quickly.

Also, thelast few months have been a nightmare for or us as we were doing our migrations to Windows 11 and found how much of a steaming pile of poo it was - I mean, we already had an inclination, but it was even worse than the rumours. Never seen a shittier OS in my life, and that's even after considering Windows ME.

amarant an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

2026 will finally be the year of Linux on the desktop!

liveoneggs 39 minutes ago | parent [-]

I am, unironically, considering this for my dad's computer: https://chromeos.google/products/chromeos-flex/

g8oz 7 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

ChromeOS just works, go for it.

raincole 36 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Because Windows 11 has ads in the start menu, we decided to switch to an OS made by the biggest online ad company. /s

arbirk 8 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not rick roll: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZSkM-QEeUg

eviks 39 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Considering Apple’s focus on consumers first

What does it mean specifically for the OS? What were the exciting improvements you've noticed that would entice that switch? Is the liquid glass design that is making it harder to read text "costumer first"?

> The third thing is gamers. Gamers use Windows largely because they have to

But also not entirely to game, so the case for an OS where almost all the basics/apps are even worse, why would they switch?

Anonbrit 37 minutes ago | parent [-]

Most people I know under 30 are either running games or chrome. Word-processing etc (the odd tune they need it) is all in the browser

reilly3000 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

IDK I started running Bazzite on my workstation after Win11 died on me a couple weeks ago, and if it is the premier experience for Linux desktop gaming then we aren’t there yet. It is great as far as distros go, don’t get me wrong. But WiFi dies after waking from sleep, and bluetooth worked once then died. I had to hack on it for a bit, then do it again with immutable OS patterns in mind. MS is certainly leaving an opportunity open for a new desktop OS. Would anyone dare offer a commercially supported consumer Linux OS?

d3Xt3r an hour ago | parent | next [-]

> But WiFi dies after waking from sleep, and bluetooth worked once then died.

That sounds like a hardware compatibility bug to me and not Bazzite's fault - I don't have those issues on my ThinkPad Z13, nor on my GPD Win Mini 2024.

rcarmo an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

That's weird. I've been running it for years and it's been rock solid--but I've done so on Ryzen mini-PCs with very standardized hardware, and am not using it as any kind of desktop--purely as a game machine.

loumf 42 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think of it a different way. The consumer market (if Microsoft doesn’t value it) is holding them back from paying tech debt. The fear of regressions is a good reason to not touch stuff.

If you do value a market and ignore this, the consequences can be fatal (see Sonos). But if you don’t, then doing the minimum is rational.

apples_oranges 39 minutes ago | parent [-]

I think it’s just like Steve Jobs said: they have no taste. That never changed and it causes them to fail time and again with innovations

LAC-Tech 2 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

People need to have realistic expectations of large corporations.

The old microsoft is dead. It's not coming back. I'm sorry if you used to like what they did - all those people are gone now. Just the name is the same.

hamdingers an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Author is using Microsoft and Windows interchangeably, this post is only about Windows.

Gaming is a bigger business for Microsoft than Windows and that can only ever be consumer focused. There's no mention of Xbox, nor an awareness that Microsoft published games are playable on the Steam Machine.

andersonpico 10 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I don't think gaming is really bigger than windows. Gaming revenue is 23B in 2025 and Windows+Devices is 17B, so just in this metrics they're already close; but you have to factor how much of their 120B Office+Productivity line on their annual report only exist because people use Windows. If you take LinkedIn and Dynamics out of the equation you get approximately 100B in Office, Teams, SharePoint and stuff like that and people only use these product at scale because they're on Windows.

hirsin an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes, the article should really be titled "Is Windows just tech debt to Microsoft?" and could have been published five or six years ago.

bee_rider 32 minutes ago | parent [-]

It would be a short article.

“Yah”

cratermoon an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Microsoft has definitely angered consumers in the gaming space. Look what they've done to Minecraft, or the formerly beloved studios they bought out. The Game Pass price hike was not well-received.

raziel2701 32 minutes ago | parent [-]

Yeah there's lots of complaining but until they move to linux, stop buying their games and cancel their subscriptions nothing will change in the enshittification path.

o_m an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The way Microsoft are ruining Windows makes it seem like enterprise users are the tech debt they want to get rid off. Like making their servers non-deterministic by serving random ads or leaking secret content to their AI. It makes sense that they would rather have their customers run Linux on Azure, so they don't have to do R&D for their own OS.

lousken 12 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

No, Microsoft products are the tech debt everywhere

llbbdd 9 minutes ago | parent [-]

Someone should come up with an alternative

IAmNotACellist an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A more interesting question to me (and one where MSFT employees here would have some insight) is to what degree is Windows' recent ABYSMAL fucking quality the result of AI, outsourcing, or bad management? You can also feel the difference in healthy employees vs. unhealthy, when you switch between something like VSCode (polished, fast, intelligent UI, not buggy, consistently improves) and Explorer (paleolithically slow, unstable, buggy, crashy, the worst version is always the latest).

eviks 34 minutes ago | parent [-]

> VSCode (polished, fast, ...) and Explorer (paleolithically slow,

In what world is VSCode fast when its startup time is multiples of Explorer (which had in recent news decided to preload itself to mask that issue) and they are the result of exactly the same fundamental shift from native to web native

IAmNotACellist 13 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

VSCode starts up the same as any other IDE, and is responsive and snappy when using it. Explorer starts up about 100 times slower than any other file explorer, and is exceptionally while using it too.

mschuster91 31 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

The competition is IntelliJ, which can be slow as molasses.

tyleo an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Another point not mentioned in this article is that Windows desktops are incredibly slow these days.

I did some compilation tests on a 2025 Windows desktop with an i9 vs some MacBooks and a new top-of-the-line Windows machine can’t even keep up with a bottom-tier M1 MacBook Pro.

https://www.tyleo.com/blog/compiler-performance-on-2025-devi...

catlifeonmars 42 minutes ago | parent [-]

Some of that may be due to cpu architecture differences. What you have done is more or less an apples to oranges comparison.

boznz 38 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Fifteen years ago every piece of hardware supported windows and windows was arguably more friendly for casual developers than Linux with things like Visual Basic and Delphi so a lot of novel and very custom software was written (guilty as charged). The good thing is that most of these still work, as windows has thankfully not fucked with the underlying Win32 libraries. The bad thing is that this one piece of custom software was probably written by someone of retirement age and it is probably what's running the company.

This is just life, the same will happen to your latest wiz-bang program you wrote today in ten or fifteen years, good companies insist on the source code and/or plan for obsolescence, others become cash cows for the software industry or die.