| ▲ | kleiba 4 days ago |
| The term "Swiss cheese" is a constant source of amusement for people from Europe... you know, like, there is only one type of cheese made in Switzerland... |
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| ▲ | kleiba 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| "Today, cheese dairies and mountain pastures in Switzerland produce nearly 500 varieties of cheese, not counting fresh cheeses." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheeses_and_dairy_produc... |
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| ▲ | criemen 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| In German, "Swiss cheese" is a term that's well known, and doesn't count that kind of amusement. For example, you could say that something "looks like swiss cheese" when it has a lot of holes in it, like very old clothing. It's often used slightly ironic, but that's not due to what you state. |
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| ▲ | ckdot 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | In German „Swiss cheese“ simply means „Schweizer Käse“ or „Käse aus der Schweiz“ - but you’ll usually still find the exact type like Emmentaler on the label and packaging.
So, as a German, it’s a bit amusing indeed. | | |
| ▲ | kleiba 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Exactly. I bet no store in Germany sells cheese simply labeled "Swiss Cheese" (as the product name) while in the US, that's common. |
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| ▲ | cubefox 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | No because "Swiss cheese" means "Emmentaler", not "Schweizer Käse". Quote from the article: > In the U.S., we call it “Swiss” cheese, while in Switzerland, it’s known as Emmental. | | |
| ▲ | kleiba 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Well, that's the point of the OP, isn't it? Emmental cheese is one of over 500 types of cheeses produced in Switzerland, but by calling this one product ("the") Swiss cheese, you're kinda implying that these hundreds of other cheeses that are actually also produced in Switzerland do not exist. It's a bit like: "In Germany, they call this car a BMW, but here we call it German Car." |
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| ▲ | NoPicklez 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Well of course not, but at some point it became an icon. Similar to eating a Danish pastry, like the Danish only made one type of pastry... Of course cheese with holes in it isn't the only type of cheese they make |
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| ▲ | dylan604 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I'd rather be known for Swiss cheese than American cheese. At least Swiss is actually cheese and not a cheese product. American cheese is nasty. It baffles me people not only eat it, but also like it | | |
| ▲ | gerdesj 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | There are largely three types of cheese in the US: Swiss, American and Cheddar. I live near to Cheddar (Somerset, UK) but I'm not going to get too outraged. All countries, without exception, do something unpleasant to an ingredient or dish that the rest of the world will cry foul over. It is the way of things. | | |
| ▲ | eru 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I'm always somewhat amused that British supermarkets seem to have a cheese section and right next to it a Cheddar section. (Ie Cheddars take up as much space as all the other kinds of cheeses combined.) | | |
| ▲ | gerdesj 4 days ago | parent [-] | | Are you sure? I live within 1 mile of Tesco, Morrisons, Lidl (OK) and within say five miles of a lot more supermarkets and all the cheeses are mixed up somewhat across the aisles. I will have to stray to Sherborne or Crewkerne for the really exotic mob (Waitrose). I'm quite partial to Somerset brie and I'm putting my head up over the parapet here 8) | | |
| ▲ | eru 4 days ago | parent [-] | | Well, I mostly lived in the UK in the 2010s. Perhaps things have changed in the meantime? |
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| ▲ | dragonwriter 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > There are largely three types of cheese in the US: Swiss, American and Cheddar. All sources I can find have cheddar #1 and mozzarella either #2 or #3 (with cream cheese #2 when moz is #3) in the US. American is behind them and Swiss is way back behind a bunch of other things including Jack and various blends. Swiss/American/Cheddar might be the big three for a particular sandwich shop, but... | |
| ▲ | maxerickson 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Did you form this picture of US cheese after visiting a hot dog cart? | | |
| ▲ | selectodude 4 days ago | parent [-] | | Few things are more popular among Europeans than making up ignorant nonsense about how dumb and backwards Americans are. | | |
| ▲ | tomnipotent 4 days ago | parent [-] | | My favorite is that we don't have bakeries or endless varieties of fresh bread. | | |
| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 4 days ago | parent [-] | | Americans are richer per capita than Europeans. Particularly when it comes to disposable purchasing power in a foreign country. A lot of European stereotypes about America are filtered through both tourist traps and cost constraints. (For a similar effect in respect of Europe, see the median Russian tourist summarizing Western Europe.) | | |
| ▲ | elzbardico 4 days ago | parent [-] | | Switzerland and Norway usually have a higher per capita gdp than the US. Most Western European countries are not so dramatically behind the US.
But on the other hand, European countries have far less income inequality than the US, and less poverty.
Then, not everything is about money. Culture matters a lot when it comes to food. | | |
| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | > Switzerland and Norway usually have a higher per capita gdp than the US And strong currencies. You don’t get this bias in either, generally. > on the other hand, European countries have far less income inequality than the US, and less poverty Irrelevant. I’m not saying one is superior to the other. Just that the median European tourist probably isn’t experiencing any American city or town like the median American who lives there. This is partly due to tourist effects. But it’s also due to cost. After GDP/capita differentials and FX effects, you’re comparing drastically different worlds. (Same for Americans traveling to Europe and, outside a few pricy capitals, generally finding a cheap, luxurious holiday.) | |
| ▲ | tick_tock_tick 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Switzerland and Norway usually have a higher per capita gdp than the US. But lower median disposable income. Europe mostly just poor. |
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| ▲ | tomnipotent 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Processed cheese is ~20% of the US market, and Swiss cheese is less than 3%. Mozzarella by itself is something like 30%. | |
| ▲ | electroglyph 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | hey, you forgot #4 and #5: queso fresco and cotija in the southwest. we also import and make plenty of other good cheeses =) |
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| ▲ | 542458 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Not all American cheese is “cheese product”. American cheese is, broadly speaking, “normal” cheese blended with emulsifiers and additives. The deli-style ones have minimal additives and are still legally real cheese. | |
| ▲ | creddit 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | American cheese is just cheese with an emulsifier, sodium citrate, added that makes it so that it doesn’t break when melted. At most it adds a slight amount of acidity and makes for a very attractive melting property. There’s not really anything disgusting about it for most people because most people find its melting properties to be a positive. Hating American cheese is an affect people adopt for the same reason people adopt an affect of hating mayo: certain cultural elements tell them to. | | |
| ▲ | bobthepanda 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | The technical definition of American cheese is that. In practice, unless you are going to look specifically for it, Kraft, Velveeta et. al. are more than happy to sell you "American cheese product" which does not meet FDA standards for labeling for American cheese, and in practice a lot of people criticizing American cheese are actually criticizing cheese product, which is what is super easy to find both in American supermarkets and abroad. Europeans also generally take offense at some of the stuff in American supermarkets that has implied labeling like European cheese, like the powdered Kraft Parmesan. | | |
| ▲ | pests 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Unless you are buying the absolute cheapest package of cheese slices it will still be real cheese. I'm not even sure if I've ever even seen a Kraft or Valveeta sliced cheese product, only lesser no-name brands. I've been am American all my life and do not buy process cheese product as it does take like plastic, but actual American cheese is delicious on burgers and grilled cheeses and a few other select meals. What's crazy is Europe allowing 5% non-milk-fat/vegetable fat products to be called "ice cream". Thankfully in America it has to be 10% milkfat at least. | | |
| ▲ | bobthepanda 4 days ago | parent [-] | | The hero image for Kraft Singles on Wikipedia clearly states “Pasteurized prepared cheese product” https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Kraft_Singles.jpg It is a sleight of hand that it says American, but it specifically does not say American cheese as a single phrase. | | |
| ▲ | PopAlongKid 3 days ago | parent [-] | | You are looking at the wrong product. This one[0] does say "American cheese" as a single phrase. And the slices are not individually wrapped, as they don't need to be. [0]https://www.kraftheinz.com/kraft-deli-deluxe/products/000210... | | |
| ▲ | bobthepanda 3 days ago | parent [-] | | Kraft Singles and their Velveeta equivalent are what is available abroad, not the Kraft Deli Deluxe. 40 percent of American households in 2019 bought Kraft Singles. You may not like it, but it is the public face of American cheese. | | |
| ▲ | pests 3 days ago | parent [-] | | I might say the 60% that didn’t buy Kraft Singles might be the public face of American cheese considering it’s the larger number? | | |
| ▲ | bobthepanda 3 days ago | parent [-] | | There’s no data to suggest that actual fancier American cheese sells more than heavily marketed slices, especially since a huge chunk of the remaining population, and I would say most, is not consuming either “American cheese” or “American cheese product” with sodium citrate. |
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| ▲ | yesco 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Wait so when Europeans complain about American cheese, they are talking about Kraft/Velveeta? I always thought of those as their own independent thing, do they not purchase their cheese at the deli? Most foods exported across the Atlantic are not going to be the fresh kind... | | |
| ▲ | bobthepanda 3 days ago | parent [-] | | They purchase European cheeses given that most American cheese types are descended from European cheeses; cheddar is English and blue is descended from English Stilton. | | |
| ▲ | yesco 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Your reply doesn't answer my question and seems to imply things I can't understand. Are you suggesting people in Europe simply use the same kind of cheese with everything? I find that hard to believe. Perhaps you have never bought cheese at a deli? There happen to be many kinds. Your last point is even more confusing, why would the fact that chedder and blue cheese originate from England have anything to do with this? It's like random trivia you interlaced here, it's very strange. I can't seem to grok it. | | |
| ▲ | bobthepanda 2 days ago | parent [-] | | They don’t buy American cheese, the melty product. They actually don’t buy much American (of origin) cheese at all at their delis because American origin cheeses are all descended from the diverse array of European cheeses, and there are melty, non-sodium citrate European cheeses. So yes, the most common form of American cheese found is the Kraft/Velveeta variety and that is really mostly aimed at expats nostalgic for it. Europe exports $2.8bn of dairy to the US. The reverse is only $167m of trade. |
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| ▲ | sowbug 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | It's very easy to make American cheese at home, and it happens to make the very best macaroni and cheese. As you say, mix some other cheese with sodium citrate dissolved in water. Cheddar works great. You'll get a nacho-sauce-like goop that you can pour onto your pasta (cavatappi or fusilli are best). Add in a caramelized onion and you'll never want to eat boxed mac & cheese again. | | |
| ▲ | creddit 4 days ago | parent [-] | | Yes. A good way to think about American Cheese is to consider if instead of it being a mass produced, highly available product, it was made by Thomas Keller and served in a dish at The French Laundry. Then we would call it “molecular gastronomy” and it would be a nice littler touch to some dish. |
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| ▲ | alkonaut 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Similar to eating a Danish pastry, like the Danish only made one type of pastry... Amusingly, the danish pastry would be called "wienerbrød" meaning: bread from Vienna. like the Viennese only made one type of pastry... Luckily, the Viennese don't call it something-from-somewhere, so the chain ends at 3. I wonder if there is a 4-chain of terms anywhere. | | |
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| ▲ | Steve44 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| In the UK it's fairly common to use the term "Swiss cheese". Most people would know you are talking about Emmental or Gruyere and it would have the bubbles/holes in it. Although they are not the same cheese, they are quite close in texture and flavour and are fairly interchangeable to the point where I don't think a significant number of people could tell you which was which. There is also the Swiss Cheese Model which is when several unfortunate events all line up to cause a major incident. |
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| ▲ | enopod_ 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Emmentaler and Gruyère close in texture and flavour and interchangeable? Oh boy, if you ever travel to Switzerland, I recommend you to keep your opinions on cheese to yourself. ;)
Emmentaler has holes, is low in salt and has a taste which is on the bland side (I personally don't like it), whereas Gruyère has no holes, is saltier and has a much richer and "rounder" flavour. It comes in different stages of ripening, from young, which is soft in texture and mild, to old, which is hard and has a much stronger flavour. I personally like Gruyère mi-salé a lot, the semi-ripened one. It's close to a perfect cheese if you ask me. | | | |
| ▲ | pezezin 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I am from Spain and it is the same in my country. If you ask the average Spanish person about "queso suizo", they will picture Emmental or Gruyere with the stereotypical holes in it. | |
| ▲ | panick21 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | If they are close in taste then you have very mild versions and sup-par versions of them. |
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| ▲ | eru 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It's like British English, or Chinese cuisine. |
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| ▲ | IAmBroom 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| There is more than one kind of cheese in America, but only one is called "American cheese" (and it isn't actually, legally cheese, BTW...). |
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| ▲ | paradox460 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| As is "American cheese" |
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| ▲ | loloquwowndueo 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It usually means Gruyère cheese. |
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| ▲ | athenot 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Only in France. For some reason, the names for Gruyère and Emmental got swapped there. | |
| ▲ | dragonwriter 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | As noted in the article, it is the cheese internationally known as Emmental, not Gruyère. Both Swiss and Gruyere cheese are regulated food names in the US Swiss (Emmentaler is an alternative name in the regs, but is a label of geographic origin in Switzerland) is defined at 21 CFR § 133.195, Gruyere at 21 CFR § 133.149. | |
| ▲ | kgwgk 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Which has no holes. (The cheese known as Gruyère in Switzerland, I mean.) | | |
| ▲ | loloquwowndueo 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Well - sure. Ever heard the phrase “contrary to popular belief”? :) | | | |
| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | French-style Gruyère can has holes. (Swiss does not.) | |
| ▲ | bigiain 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | We must immediately start constructing all critical safety systems out of Gruyere. If there are no holes, then it's impossible for the holes to line up. |
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| ▲ | ofalkaed 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | American Swiss cheese developed from Emmental cheese. | | |
| ▲ | riffraff 4 days ago | parent [-] | | It is odd, but people often confuse Emmenthaler and Gruyere. Even in Italian (just across the border!) it was not uncommon to hear expressions like "full of holes like groviera", and it seems in French it's the same based on the existence of this Wikipedia page https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradoxe_du_fromage_%C3%A0_tro... Language is just strange. | | |
| ▲ | kgwgk 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | They also have their own “Gruyère” - different from the Swiss one and with holes - in France: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruy%C3%A8re_fran%C3%A7ais They also have a cheese similar to the Gruyère from Switzerland, but with a different name (the Gruyère part dropped from the name over time): https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comt%C3%A9_(fromage) | | |
| ▲ | rkomorn 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I'm French and it apparently took more than four decades for me to TIL that we have our own Gruyère. I always assumed we were just calling Emmental the wrong thing. Then again most of what we call Gruyère is a somewhat industrialized store-bought thing that arguably tastes like neither Emmental not Gruyère (but at least it has holes, I guess). And to boot, I'm pretty sure we call "Gruyère" some of the products that are labeled as Emmental anyway. In retrospect, it makes sense we'd have our "own" given how finicky we are with names (of things we produce). Edit: turns out we've also bastardized Emmental anyway. | |
| ▲ | HelloNurse 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | There's also a tight branding and trademark component. I remember a major ad campaign when proper imported "Emmental" was rebranded as "Emmentaler" because the former name was becoming generic, and a related ad campaign about positioning and promoting Emmentaler as one of several kinds of "Swiss Cheese" along with Gruyere, Sbrinz and maybe a fourth one I don't recollect. | | |
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| ▲ | Kichererbsen 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | As a Swiss, confusing Emmenthaler and Gruyere is wild - they're soooo different in just about any property except both being called cheese. And I personally believe Emmenthaler to be the worst cheese produced in Switzerland. The only thing it has going for it are the iconic holes. Gruyere on the other hand is up there with the best of Swiss cheeses. | |
| ▲ | rkomorn 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | I kinda love that someone who wrote that article was like "this needs a table for clarity!" |
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| ▲ | jahbrewski 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Call me naive, but honestly never made the connection between swiss cheese and Switzerland. |
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| ▲ | netsharc 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I live in the country, and when I went to USA I found it amusing that a sandwich's ingredients include "Swiss". (No mention of "cheese") | | |
| ▲ | sojournerc 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | It's like saying "cheddar". Cheese is assumed | | |
| ▲ | shrx 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | There could be more to it; some processed cheese products can't legally be named cheese. | |
| ▲ | gerdesj 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Cheddar is a small town and a gorge in Somerset, UK. I live close by. Switzerland is an entire country with sodding great mountains and lakes, multiple towns, cities and a lot of worryingly loved leather clothing. How on earth can you reduce a nation that supplies the rather lovely Swiss Guard to the Vatican and rather a lot more (that word is working quite hard at this point and perspiring very heavily) to the entire world to ... cheese. I suggest you don't apply for any jobs in marketing. Your talents will be wasted, should any be found 8) | | |
| ▲ | netsharc 4 days ago | parent | next [-] | | So, what's for dinner this Thanksgiving? | | | |
| ▲ | sojournerc 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The context of the thread is "swiss" on a menu in the US, which makes it obvious that it's cheese, and not a guard at the Vatican, same as cheddar on a sandwich is obviously not referring to an English town. It may shock you to find out that things are named differently in different places. smh | |
| ▲ | tick_tock_tick 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | I mean Switzerland in the USA is mostly know for cheese, chocolate, Nazi gold, money laundering, and tax evasion. |
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| ▲ | 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | lproven 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > never made the connection between swiss cheese and Switzerland That is... staggering to me. OTOH, I have seen people genuinely ask "why is the Mexican language called 'Spanish'?" | |
| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 4 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > honestly never made the connection between swiss cheese and Switzerland Swiss cheese usually refers to Emmentaler. It comes from the Emme Valley, in Bern canton. It’s delicious and one of the OG three of Depression-era fondue. (Gruyère and Appenzeller. Vacherin can come too.) It’s called Swiss cheese because Wisconsin has a sizable 19th century ethnically Swiss diaspora. (Wisconsin also has a diaspora from Parma. It’s suspected the soft cheese they make is closer to what Parmesan was before WWII than Parmigiano Reggiano, though I personally find the latter tastier.) | |
| ▲ | panick21 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | When I was in the US and told people I was from Switzerland or said 'Swiss' most people said 'I love Sweden'. So I'm not surprised. |
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