There are quite a few inaccuracies here.

Palestine is not in Arabia but in the Levant, which was conquered by Arabs from the Byzantine Empire in the 7th c. as part of the Arab-Byzantine wars, and came under the Rashidun Caliphate, the first incarnation of the Arab Empire (which also conquered parts of Europe, BTW, not to mention that people in Morocco or Tunisia speak Arabic for pretty much the same reason people in Peru or Mexico speak Spanish). Warfare in the Levant obviously preceded the crusades by centuries and millenia, and included not only European conquests such as Greek and Roman, but also Persian and Arab conquests.

While it is true that modern Zionism originated in Europe, most Jews living in Israel have no European ancestry whatsoever. Most Jews in Israel have a recent ancestry in the Middle East and North Africa.

Even Ashkenazi Jews of a recent European ancestry (who are a minority in Israel) have genetics pointing to Middle Eastern ancestry. While it is hard to tie any group to ancient Jews, it isn't unlikely that Jews of all origins as well as Palestinian Arabs have ancient Jewish ancestry.

Just as European nationalism excluded Jews as Europeans, Arab nationalism excluded Jews as Arabs, and if there's any group that identifies as Jewish-Arab today, it is vanishingly small.

What Zionism is has not only changed considerably over time, but now, as in the past, there's great disagreement among those considering themselves Zionist on what it means. For example, as recently as a decade ago you could find a small but not negligible group of Israelis who identified as Zionsists yet were in favour of a single multi-national (or non-national) Jewish/Arab state, i.e. the same position was regarded as both Zionist and anti-Zionist by different people simultaneously. Today, many (perhaps even most) of those identifying as Zionists favour a two-state solution.

This is such a perversion of the history of the holy land that I don't even see fit to correct any of it. Any reader here is welcome to read about the Muslim conquests, of which the Muslims are extremely proud.

In fact, part of that pride is calling it an the Arab conquest, even though the colonizer - Salah AlDin - was a Kurd and not an Arab.

Jews are an ethnicity and are genetically the same. Even those from Europe and those from Muslim countries (who now live in Israel after getting kicked out of Muslim countries). Stop making stuff up.

Ohhh and Muslims didn’t treat Jews “peacefully”. They were second class citizens and often massacred. Read some history.

It's not a "trope" but well documented history. The Edict of Expulsion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edict_of_Expulsion) was issued in England in 1290 and was repeated across most of western Europe for the next several hundred years. And I'm assuming/hoping you don't deny all the atrocities against Jews from the early-mid 1900s in the same region.

And it's pretty telling that you chose to say this to me and not the comment I replied to.

They are predominantly so. Ashkenazi Jews are from Eastern Europe. Sephardic Jews are from Spain. Zionism as a movement was started in Europe by Europeans. Israel is a European colony state.

You are the only one using the word "only".

There was never a country called Israel until 1948. It was always Palestine.

The idea of a nation called Israel is the invention of Zionists in the 19th and 20th century.

It wasn't started by the Palestinians. Israelis conduced ethnic cleansing operations against civilians to displace them, including biowarfare and well poisoning. It continues today, in Gaza and in the West Bank.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cast_Thy_Bread https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_expulsion_from_L...

Started by the Arabs is charitable when Jewish terrorists went around massacring villages.

So you think the Jews imported by the One Million Plan and the tens of others like it were "displaced"? There's a reason that the multiplicity of Jews in Israel today are American and European immigrants with no connection to the land whatsoever.

Yes, the shameless and evil generally aren't to be reasoned with, in which case things will come to a head and there are other ways to stop genocides. See for example, the Nazis.

No. You're just factually wrong. This is a made-up statement with no truth to it.

Arab Jews were living peacefully side by side in Palestine before the European Zionist colonizers started coming in the 19th and 20th centuries.

Judea became Palestine after the war in 115. Most of the population remained, stayed jewish, converted to christianism (which was just another jewish branch back then), or to one of the many other cults in the region. Their descendants are today's Palestinians. The fact that Samaritans, who are mentioned in the Bible, are still there is a good proof of this.

You say "the Jews" but you're leaving out that there are Arab Jews and European ones. Arab Jews have lived in Palestine for hundreds of years alongside other Arabs peacefully in coexistence.

The arrival of Zionist European Jews was a phenomonen of the 19th and 20th centuries.

The Zionist Jews that came from Europe brought with them a supremecist ideology that, in their eyes, justified all forms of violence committed against the Muslim, Christian, and yes, Jewish Palestians that opposed their colonization.

I don't know what you're making or misrepresenting in your statememt about Jordan and Jerusalem, but Jews have always lived in Jerusalem since the Muslims first took control of it 1400 years ago when Umar ibn El-Khattab brought back in Jews who had been expelled by the Christian rulers prior to that.

Jews have always prospered under actual religious Muslim rule, whether in Palestine, Spain, Morocco, Iran, or otherwise. Zionism is what drove a rift between Muslims and Jews in past two centuries, as prior to this there never was one.

Is it collective punishment or just really difficult to successful take down terrorists, destroy their weapons, and free hostages when they hide among civilians in a highly dense place? How would you suggest a country like Israel could definitely put an end to Hamas so their citizens are not experiencing risk? And how do you separate the “civilians” from Hamas when they voted for Hamas, support them today, and so on, knowing full well what their goals are (religious supremacy and genocide)?

Under 60 000 British died during the Bliz.

350 000 to 500 000 Germans died in allied bombing.

Did the Germans become the good guys when the German civilian death toll exceeded the UK death toll?

Or even just when US got involved since Germany hadn't attacked US civilians?

No?

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> Taking your post at face value (which nobody should),

The crimes of Hamas are well documented, not only by Israel who admittedly might have some bias, but also by several in the OSINT community before Hamas realized their mistake and started deleting.

You questioning it only tells us you don't know much about what happened.

> the argument would be to punish Hamas, and not run around shooting children in the head,

Exactly like we dealt with the nazis and not a single child was hurt, right?

Or maybe take "war 101" and "war 201" and learn a thing or two about both why the laws of war explicitly bans using civilians as shields and also explicitly point out that human shields can be ignored. (Yes, it does. Feel free to look it up, and as homework, consider why the laws of war points this out ao explicitly. Here is a link, I don't expect you to have tje laws of war bookmarked: https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/api-1977/arti...)

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Yes, and they are. If Israel really wanted to just commit a genocide or specifically target civilians, they would have been able to act much more quickly and cause a lot more collateral damage. Is there really any doubt about this? They could have literally leveled the entire city with a munitions from air.

Obviously.

And that is also what we see.

When did IDF try to outdo the rape of Nanking?

When did Hamas follow the laws of war ever so slightly?

  > It's important to note that these things never happened

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181

There are videos made by the Hamas attackers on October 7, using their own cellphones. There are recordings of cell phone calls by the same terrorists: "Dad? I killed a f**g jew just now!".

I personally know two women who had their baby babies burned to death. I know them personally. Whoever told you that was lying to you.

I suggest you seek out more information. Frankly this is not even under debate - there are videos from Hamas and from Gazans showing what happened. There are surveillance cameras showing them setting shelters on fire with children inside. Grenades thrown into living rooms with families. Dead women paraded around naked in the streets of Gaza (how did their clothes come off?)? Female hostages with blood on their crotch (hint: rape).

There are videos.

Not only collected by Israel but also by the wider OSINT community.

  > most of which didn't happen

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181

This has not been a single terrorist event. Hamas has been shooting rockets at us for almost two decades before the October 7th attacks. They are still shooting rockets at us, some have fallen yesterday and today. And I'm not even talking about the rockets shot at us from other Muslim nations, such as Yemen, that just proves that this is a Muslim against Jewish war and not an Israel against Hamas war. 19 Israelis were injured in a rocket attack from Yemen yesterday.

And how could you oppose both the occupation and annexation plans? Annexation is an end to occupation, no? I also think that the occupation has been going on for far too long, though I fault UNRWA and the PA for that as much as I fault Israel.

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Historically you can look at Germany in 1944 and 1945 and get an idea about what people think is fair.

Hope this helps.

The financial backing of Netanyahu:

Not withholding UN funds that Israel was tasked with distributing, right?

Half a dozen? Let’s do inventory!

Lebanon’s - hezbollah has fired rockets into Israel on oct 8th 2023 Iraq - fired rockets in solidarity of Gaza Yemen - fired rockets in solidarity of Gaza Syria - fired rockets in solidarity of Gaza Iran - fired the largest array of ballistic missiles to Israel after Israel bombed an consulate in Syria where Hamas and hezbolla were congregating Qatar - that’s the only country that didn’t physically attack Israel, but they did finance Hamas for the past decade, and operate a global information war against Israel via Al Jazeera

You know what, I just had to do a double take because your post is so stupid.

Israel brought nothing to the region? Let’s review.

Israel has the highest gdp by a great margin.

Israel is an important exporter of technology to the world, be it cyber tech, water tech, agriculture tech or defense tech.

Israel has the highest number of startups per capita in the world.

Israel has more Nobel laureates than the entire rest of the Middle East.

Last olymipcs Israel won more medal than the rest of the Middle East.

Palestines primary exports pretty much mounts to terrorism and sedition.

So yeah, Israel is an extremely successful country, saying otherwise is either ignorance, or malicious.

Leaving Quatar aside, because seriously that puzzles everyone including me: what half a dozen countries are you referring to?

> it was a creation of the second world war

The modern state of Israel with its present borders were a creation of the Second World War. But if you go back in time to ~1000 BC, Jewish people occupied the entire region (much broader than just Israel), and they are the only surviving indigenous people of the region. This isn’t even controversial. Virtually all historians and scholars acknowledge this because there is literal physical evidence in the buildings at Temple Mount and elsewhere, which are all dated back to that time.

The point is a conflict that the victim can choose to end anytime they want isn't a genocide, no matter how UN tries to twist one of the legal definitions into something that can be interpretated as one.

The people at the Nova festival wasn't throwing rocks at police or military when they were abducted. Neither were they trying to smuggle bombs, slash throats, stab elderly or any of the other things Palestinian Arabs get locked up for.

That is what I meant by completely innocent.

edit:

Also, any reason why you mention Ben Gvir but not the many Palestinian Arab leaders who says worse?

Any reason you don't mention the hundreds of thousands of Israelis who fill the street to protest its current government and the absolute lack of anyone who protests Hamas in the streets of Gaza?

That would be a valid point if they were guilty of "occupation and apartheid of Palestine" and the situation wasn't just a military administration of land that has been unclaimed since 1917 and the collapse of the Ottoman empire.