| ▲ | vkou 6 hours ago |
| Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves, here, that would have the stench of colonialism about it. It's not their land to 'return to' - after all, people already live there and they have no moral right to displace them. |
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| ▲ | basilgohar 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| How do you think Israel was formed in the first place? Or is your comment intentionally ironic? |
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| ▲ | mupuff1234 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | How do you think most countries or borders were formed? It's almost all wars and displacement. | |
| ▲ | ars 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | In the fist place? That was 3,000 or so years ago. | | |
| ▲ | basilgohar 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | There was never a country called Israel until 1948. It was always Palestine. The idea of a nation called Israel is the invention of Zionists in the 19th and 20th century. | | |
| ▲ | SilverElfin an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Ancient Israelites existed approximately 2000 years before your incorrect claimed timeline. Today’s Jews are descendants of Israelites. It is also trivially simply to disprove “It was always Palestine”. It was made up by Romans. Again, much later than when Jewish people lived there. | | |
| ▲ | lupusreal 30 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Today's Israel has absolutely nothing to do with ancient Israel. They took on the name as propaganda, a cynically constructed state origin myth. |
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| ▲ | hashim 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | And spearheaded by the Haganah and Irgun, who were violent terrorists whose many bombings "persuaded" the British to hand the land over to them. |
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| ▲ | flyinglizard 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Israel was not formed by displacement. That's a common misconception. Jews bought lands all across Palestine in early 1900's, with bodies such as the JNF. The displacement ("Nakba") came in 1948, during the Israeli War of Independence (started by the Arabs in Palestine and abroad), and even that mostly concerned areas which participated in the war. Areas that remained peaceful integrated into Israel (today's Israeli Arabs, 23% of the population). | | |
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| ▲ | 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | lupusreal 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| They have been deliberately displaced by Israeli's apartheid government giving Jewish people around the world a "right to return" to Israel. Except unlike the Palestinians, they were never from Israel in the first place so the term "right to return" as used by Israel is nothing but colonialist propaganda. Undoing colonialism isn't colonialism. |
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| ▲ | albulab 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Hey chatgpt how many jews displaced from Arab countries in 1948? and how many descendants they have today? | | |
| ▲ | hashim 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | So you think the Jews imported by the One Million Plan and the tens of others like it were "displaced"? There's a reason that the multiplicity of Jews in Israel today are American and European immigrants with no connection to the land whatsoever. |
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| ▲ | lazide 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It’s all just the ‘hopes and prayers’ of the left anyway. When someone doesn’t give a damn (like Israel right now), all the public shaming is just another version of the UN’s strongly worded letter. | | |
| ▲ | hashim 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yes, the shameless and evil generally aren't to be reasoned with, in which case things will come to a head and there are other ways to stop genocides. See for example, the Nazis. |
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| ▲ | nailer 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | basilgohar 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | No. You're just factually wrong. This is a made-up statement with no truth to it. Arab Jews were living peacefully side by side in Palestine before the European Zionist colonizers started coming in the 19th and 20th centuries. | | |
| ▲ | nailer 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | > No. You're just factually wrong. This is a made-up statement with no truth to it. Arab colonisation of the middle east and north africa is documented history. > Arab Jews were living peacefully side by side in Palestine before the European Zionist colonizers started coming in the 19th and 20th centuries. You can look up historical incidences of Arab violence against Jews at any time you like. Palestine was partitioned into Jordan/Arab state/Jewish state for this reason, much like India and Pakistan was. | | |
| ▲ | basilgohar 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | It's interesting how you have to go back about 1,000 years in order to try to make your false equivalency. At no point in the plan for the partitioning of the Arab world was the safety or peace of peoples living there a consideration whatsoever. It was a convenient way to get the Jews out of Europe for the antisemites that lived there and to give the West a vassal colony to continue to serve its imperial purposes in the Middle East for destabilizing lest the Arabs otherwise unify. Every other government in the Middle East with few exceptions are now, at this point, similarly vassalized and serve the same purpose, and any chance at deviation from that plan has been met with violence of an unsurpassed level with Israel serving as the foothold for that. The minor tribal violence you are alluding to, which was not targeted specifically at Jews, but part of general tribal spats that include Muslim on Muslim violence as well, pales in comparison to the technologized and politicized mass genocial violence in the Middle East that Israel has enabled and actively campaigned for (Iraq, Syria, Iran) for decades. Don't tell me anything about the actions of the West or Israel in the Middle East aim for peace or reduction of violence. Jews were not spared from violence in Israel during its formation as well, with documented attacks against them in Iraq and Egypt to spur them to flee from the Arab countries to the "safety" of Israel. The Middle East was a much safer place for everyone, including Jews, before Israel was formed. | | |
| ▲ | nailer 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Arab colonisation being many years ago doesn’t mean it didn’t happen and doesn’t make arabs native. Here’s the Hamas leader talking about how they’re Arabs: https://x.com/eyakoby/status/1971056308939092028 > any chance at deviation from that plan has been met with violence of an unsurpassed level Really? I thought it was because Arab leaders keep trying to destroy Israel. I think I got that impression from Arab leaders continuously saying they were going to destroy Israel, and 'the Jews' in the time between the writing of the Koran and the creation of the modern state (also still 'the jews' if you listen to Arab media). Syria used to be Christian. Lebanon had a significant Christian population. Egypt was Egyptian and Iran was Zoroastrian. All fell after arab colonisation. |
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| ▲ | Saline9515 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Judea became Palestine after the war in 115. Most of the population remained, stayed jewish, converted to christianism (which was just another jewish branch back then), or to one of the many other cults in the region. Their descendants are today's Palestinians. The fact that Samaritans, who are mentioned in the Bible, are still there is a good proof of this. |
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| ▲ | pessimizer 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Imagine you kill my dad, steal his house and turn me out into the street; you get convicted and sent to jail and your son gets to keep the house. |
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| ▲ | ars 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | That what Jordan did to the Jews in Jerusalem, and then handed the house to Palestinians who decided they want to make it their capital. | | |
| ▲ | basilgohar 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | You say "the Jews" but you're leaving out that there are Arab Jews and European ones. Arab Jews have lived in Palestine for hundreds of years alongside other Arabs peacefully in coexistence. The arrival of Zionist European Jews was a phenomonen of the 19th and 20th centuries. The Zionist Jews that came from Europe brought with them a supremecist ideology that, in their eyes, justified all forms of violence committed against the Muslim, Christian, and yes, Jewish Palestians that opposed their colonization. I don't know what you're making or misrepresenting in your statememt about Jordan and Jerusalem, but Jews have always lived in Jerusalem since the Muslims first took control of it 1400 years ago when Umar ibn El-Khattab brought back in Jews who had been expelled by the Christian rulers prior to that. Jews have always prospered under actual religious Muslim rule, whether in Palestine, Spain, Morocco, Iran, or otherwise. Zionism is what drove a rift between Muslims and Jews in past two centuries, as prior to this there never was one. | | |
| ▲ | ars 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | > I don't know what you're making or misrepresenting in your statememt about Jordan and Jerusalem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordanian_annexation_of_the_We... "The Jordanians immediately expelled all the Jewish residents of East Jerusalem.[54] Mark Tessler cites John Oesterreicher as writing that during Jordanian rule, "34 out of the Old City's 35 synagogues were dynamited. Some were turned into stables, others into chicken coops."" Which is why Palestinians should never get East Jerusalem as their capital, it's simply not theirs, not even in the nebulous way that the West Bank is. This: > Jews have always prospered under actual religious Muslim rule, whether in Palestine, Spain, Morocco, Iran, or otherwise. Zionism is what drove a rift between Muslims and Jews in past two centuries, as prior to this there never was one. Is not true, as even a cursory view of the history will reveal endless massacres of Jews by Muslims. | | |
| ▲ | basilgohar 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | This is completely in the context of the formation of Israel in 1948. Also, you are lying about "endless massacres of Jews by Muslims". This is not, has never been, and continues to not be, true whatsoever. Arabs and Muslims didn't even have antisemitism before Zionism existed. You can only look to times after Zionism with its supremeist ideology to find hostility from Arabs and Muslims specifically targeting Jews for being Jewish. It simply did not exist and they have coexisted for nearly the entirety of the history of Islam. Only when Europeans came down into the Middle East and they segmented and separated the society did this occur. Avi Shlaim [0], an Israeli and also Arab Jew, talks extensively about the peaceful coexistence Muslims and Jews had for hundreds of years in the Middle East prior to Zionism. Zionism tried to force a wedge between Arab Jews and Muslims that simply wasn't there beforehand. | | |
| ▲ | Sporktacular 29 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I'm as against the genocide as you can be, but what you are saying is historically completely inaccurate. Discrimination against Jews is old, older than Israel or Zionism. The arguments against the land theft and genocide are strong enough without the hyperbole. |
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| ▲ | throwforfeds 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Honestly can't tell if this is satire or not. |
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