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| ▲ | NelsonMinar 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Arguably our tastes evolved or adapted to enjoy the flavors of fermentation. And it's not universal: a lot of people don't like the smell of cheese, or natto, or even cucumber pickles. I love them all! | |
| ▲ | agos 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | "let's make this stuff go bad, but in a good way" and somehow humans created cheese, soy sauce, wine, bread, pickles, chocolate... | | |
| ▲ | ljf 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | Isn't it more 'let's store this surplus' - then 'oh man it looks and smells different now but somehow better'. For example cheese was likely discovered when people tried transporting milk in water carrying bags made from sheep stomachs. While carrying water in them would be fine, putting milk in there for a couple of unrefrigerated days would lead to cheese from the rennet in sheep's stomach that would stay on in the vessel, even after it has been cleaned and even dried. Same with wine - let's store some fruit juices - it is pretty hard NOT to make wine unless you know about pasteurisation, and even if you do boil it, there are so many natural yeasts just ready to make wine. Grains that get wet actively want to produce beer :) Wholemeal flour is chock full of wild yeasts, and wants to become a sourdough starter if you just give it a little water and time. |
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| ▲ | montebicyclelo a day ago | parent | next [-] | | > The difference between spoilage and fermentation/aging is whether humans like the result at the end Is not whether it makes humans unwell quite an important factor.. | | |
| ▲ | GoatInGrey a day ago | parent [-] | | Liking the result at the end in a qualifier that encompasses "does not make me ill", "does not taste terrible", and various other factors. | | |
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| ▲ | dlisboa a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The difference is whether humans get ill or not. | | |
| ▲ | charcircuit a day ago | parent [-] | | People get ill from alcohol, yet it's called fermentation. | | |
| ▲ | algorias a day ago | parent [-] | | No, people get ill from excessive quantities of alcohol. | | |
| ▲ | literalAardvark a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Acetaldehyde is always toxic, so no, they always get sick, just less sick. | |
| ▲ | bobxmax a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | Getting drunk is literally poisoning yourself. Some humans just happen to enjoy the symptoms of said poison. | | |
| ▲ | accrual a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Kind of reminds me of dolphins taking turns chewing on pufferfish, apparently for fun/altered states. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/dolphins-seem-to-u... | |
| ▲ | nitwit005 21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Most people aren't getting drunk every time they drink. Try wine and grape juice side by side. Baring truly awful wine, the wine will taste better (I suppose you could have awful grape juice too, but, you get the idea). | | |
| ▲ | kranner 20 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Taste is subjective. To people not used to consuming any alcohol the wine might taste worse than plain grape juice. | | |
| ▲ | SwtCyber 15 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Context and experience shape so much of how we taste things | |
| ▲ | nitwit005 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Sure, but it's a taste people have spent a couple thousand years working on, and it's remained popular through huge changes in culture and diet. People clearly like it. | | |
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| ▲ | ac29 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Try wine and grape juice side by side. Baring truly awful wine, the wine will taste better The unfermented juice of wine grapes has many similarities to the wine it would produce if fermented. "Grape juice" is usually pretty one note, just sweet. | |
| ▲ | bobxmax 21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Sure, but if alcohol didn't get you drunk consumption would plummet 95%. | | |
| ▲ | OJFord 20 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I wouldn't be so sure... I'm certain my own would increase. (Assuming 'get you drunk' means something like 'contain ethanol' i.e. no 'buzz' or whatever but also no adverse effect on liver, the next day, ...). If you want a cold drink that isn't sweet, your choices are pretty much alcohol, alcohol-free alternative, water. | | |
| ▲ | alisonatwork 20 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Tea and coffee don't have to be sweet either, and there are lots of cold versions of those. | | |
| ▲ | kranner 20 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Also plenty of traditional cold drinks that are savoury or can be savoury: doogh, ayran, lassi, jaljeera, buttermilk, kvass | | |
| ▲ | OJFord 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I guess simply 'milk' I also missed, which is a bit sweet of course but I wasn't intending to lump it in with fruit juices and added-sugar drinks. I did almost mention jaljeera, but thought that might be a bit niche. It is also often sweetened though. I've never known not-sweet lassi though? Salted lassi is still sweet underneath, like salted caramel, ime. We could count it with the sweet-ish milk drinks, anyway. | |
| ▲ | aziaziazi 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I’ll add legumes juices : both raw, fresh blend or the water from a soup that you separate and put in a fridge. Those are delicious. Kvaas contain alcohol, doesn’t it? | | |
| ▲ | thesz 15 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Of about kefir percentage. Kwas has 0.5-1.5% ABV, kefir has 0.02-2.0% ABV. | |
| ▲ | kranner 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Kvaas contain alcohol, doesn’t it? I think only as much as kombucha, not enough to cause a buzz |
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| ▲ | metaphor 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | To be fair, the concept of iced tea as an objective desire is considered the provenance of blasphemous original sin by a not insignificant percentage of natives where the parent hails from. |
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| ▲ | astura 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | >If you want a cold drink that isn't sweet, your choices are pretty much alcohol, alcohol-free alternative, water. Uh, no. There's also seltzer, flavored seltzer, flavored water, iced tea, iced coffee, herbal infusions (like hibiscus, rooibos, honeybush, etc), broth, milk and plant based milk alternatives, and fermented drinks like kombucha + kefir. That's just off the top of my head. Hibiscus even has the benefit of helping regulate blood pressure. I almost never drink sweet drinks or plain water and rarely drink alcohol. My fluid consumption is almost entirely: hot tea, iced tea, kombucha, and hibiscus infusion. Sometimes seltzer. Sometimes coffee. |
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| ▲ | nitwit005 19 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | That seems unlikely. Non alcoholic drinks are already an enormous market, and people would have less reason to limit consumption with the health downside removed. |
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| ▲ | voidUpdate 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | If you hate the taste of alcohol (like me), I think the grape juice would taste better | | |
| ▲ | astura 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | I like beer and I think the taste of wine is absolutely vile. |
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| ▲ | chamomeal 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Totally agree. I love beer. I just love it. I would drink beer all day if it didn’t have that damned alcohol in it. I like alcohol too, but not nearly as much as I like beer. Kinda sounds nonsensical, but that’s how I feel! |
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| ▲ | ljsprague 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The dose makes the poison. |
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| ▲ | tough a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Same could be said of fire and burnt food | |
| ▲ | talkingtab a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | What is fermentation really? It is a process whereby bacteria et al. process a food source, breaking it down. And the same process goes on inside your gut. Ouch, now there is spoilage for you! There is at least some research that says fermented foods have some benefits including reducing inflammation. My personal guess based on subjecting myself to more and more fermenting foods is that much of the obesity and many of the common health issues have to do with not eating enough fermenting foods. Just a guess based on a sample of one. | | |
| ▲ | elhudy 20 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | In the case of this style of korean soy sauce, it is actually fungal enzymes from molds that colonized the meju slowly breaking down the proteins and starches over time, whilst being protected from outside forces by high salinity water. I realize you said "et al." but I couldn't help myself. There's very little bacterial activity going on in there. | |
| ▲ | modo_mario 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | AS far as downsides go. Don't koreans have a much higher incidence of bowl cancer due to a bad bacteria that can pop up during fermentation? | |
| ▲ | Beijinger 20 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | No, fermentation is a process of enzymatic transformation. Black tea is fermented, for example. No need for bacteria. | | |
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| ▲ | ceejayoz a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The line between spoiled and fermented… blurs, at times. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A1karl | |
| ▲ | Carrok a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | What point are you even trying to make? The difference between gone bad and fermented is pretty obvious, but fine, don’t eat anything fermented if you like. I’ll be over here enjoying cheese, kimchi, beer, miso, pickles, sauerkraut, etc etc etc | | |
| ▲ | soperj a day ago | parent [-] | | chocolate | | |
| ▲ | sho_hn a day ago | parent [-] | | TIL! I had no idea chocolate-making involves fermentation. Turns out fermenting the beans is highly involved in producing the characteristic flavor. | | |
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| ▲ | nkrisc a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | And veggies and meat begin decaying the moment they die. So what? The difference between spoilage and fermentation is whether it’s spoiled. |
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