Remix.run Logo
▲ ddxv a day ago

I implemented x402 across a very heavily crawled site and have yet to see any transactions go through. Possibly it's not working, but I haven't seen any yet. Reading the x402 reddit you see other similar comments. People joking that the only people putting money into x402 are the people testing to see if x402 works.

I do want it to work, so just curious does anyone have any positive anecdotes? Can this naturally get picked up by crawlers?

▲heavensteeth 17 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Why would any scraper choose to pay you? They have previously been able to scrape your content for free and can continue to scrape your content for free.

The problem was never the lack of a way to pay you, they just don't care if the transaction is fair.

▲hephaes7us 15 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Presumably, if you pay and respect rate limits, you get to bypass the anti-scraping measures?

Admittedly, the price that most will be willing to pay is indeed capped by the cost of the alternatives (bypassing anti-scraping measures via proxies, etc). Still, that means that there's a nonzero rational price.

▲cvadict 14 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Presumably, if you pay and respect rate limits, you get to bypass the anti-scraping measures?

Far cheaper to just use your hyper-intelligence machines to bypass the anti-scraping measures than to pay everyone.

As of today you can only block the scattershot scrapers trying to slurp up everything at minimal effort/cost. Thankfully those make up the vast majority of traffic, so even dead-simple measures like Anubis block them. Whereas an advanced scraper is getting through any technical measures you can conceivably put in place (including the SOTA paid/cloud offerings). At the high end, the agents just drive regular browsers, mobile device, etc. running through a residential proxy / mobile CGNAT'd ip, solving captcha's in real-time, reasoning about the protection measures in place + adapting in real-time, etc. etc. They are virtually indistinguishable from humans. If you want humans to be able to see your content, the bots will too, as your average bot can now be far smarter + faster + adaptable than your average human.

▲warkdarrior 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Presumably, if you pay and respect rate limits, you get to bypass the anti-scraping measures?

Payment are not made for "presumably". The website should offer a clear contract: "to turn off anti-scraping measures for X amount of time, pay $Y".

▲lowbloodsugar 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Seems like we need to make this the default for everything - including humans.

▲gbrits 21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I believe having Ai agents using credit-based Saas without needing a subscription with each of those Saas individually (just access to a wallet with some allotment) is the overall compelling use case.

▲AznHisoka 17 hours ago | parent [-]

Yes, ya see this a lot in GTM use cases: ie Clay, DeepLine, etc

▲roenxi 21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Never heard of a use case. But wild speculation is fun - it seems very unlikely that crawlers will be the first one.

- The per-API-call return probably needs to be fairly high with obvious value to justify paying for something. Downloading a .tar.gz of the site, rather than a crawler.

- The world seems to be reforming political blocks, so it'll likely be a cross-bloc transaction where the two sides don't have a fiat transfer system available for use.

- Probably something that is politically sensitive in the customer's bloc.

So my guess would be that the first use case will be some illegal service that could have been implemented with an AWS Lambda, probably hosted somewhere questionable (Russia a candidate). Probably branching out into politically sensitive topics.

> People joking that the only people putting money into x402 are the people testing to see if x402 works.

It'll be that way until suddenly it works for someone, like how bitcoin was a joke up until some tipping point where the financiers started moving in. It'll take a big kick initially to convince people figuring out crypto is worth it just for the sake of making a web trade.

▲happosai 21 hours ago | parent | next [-]

AI crwalerd are already paying shady residential botnets for access. Using x402 would just move the money the right people instead .

▲nullsanity 20 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

▲origini 19 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Its a technical solution to a non existing problem.

99% of the big companies provide a standardized known way of paying stuff everyone is used to use.

Its a credit card.

Whatever happens somehow in the background, no one cares.

▲dvdkon 19 hours ago | parent [-]

Credit cards don't work for small-value transactions, which is exactly what you need for a pay-per-visit model. For human users, you'd also need to address privacy concerns, but for scrapers I suppose it's not necessary.

EDIT: And that's without mentioning the value of machine-readable payment requests, which is what x402 actually brings.

▲iampims 18 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That’s where top-up helps. Pay $100 once with the credit card, check the box “top-up $50 when available funds drop below $10”.

Sure it’s a per-vendor setup, so you might need to do this for each 3rd party that requires payment, or use something like openrouter with a pool of funds.

Probably simpler than setting up and using x402.

▲dvdkon 17 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This being per-vendor is the problem. I'm never going to pay in advance to use random websites, so in e.g. news this model leads to only a few big players getting paid.

I'm even less inclined to put tens of dollars into something my agent thinks might be interesting, but I wouldn't be opposed to putting a dollar in a "browsing budget" for the day.

▲stackghost 14 hours ago | parent [-]

>I'm never going to pay in advance to use random websites

Nobody is, which is exactly why x402 will never gain widespread adoption.

▲solyin 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> openrouter with a pool of funds.

I mean, that's kinda what x402 is, no? I buy UDSC from Coinbase and then pay $0.05 to a site via AI and via x402.

▲infecto 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Depends on what the future looks like. I guess this could bring what I always wanted. Less paywalls and micro transactions. I still suspect for the braves of the world it makes little sense. There are <5 search api players. Now for a random new publication that has a paywall it sounds great, something with infrequent access or even 1 time.

▲origini 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

"Pay per visit"?

I mean i pay a drink for a euro with a credit card. Whats the big business behind 'pay per visit'?

▲dvdkon 14 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The clearest example is news articles. I won't pay 1 euro to read one, but I would pay 1 cent, if I had a system that could facilitate that.

▲cabusto 7 hours ago | parent [-]

I work for a company that has tried to make that happen, but there simply hasn't been enough people to do that, or enough publishers who want to go down that road. They prefer the predictable income.

▲ 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
▲stackghost 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

To be frank: It's bloggers who don't want to run ads but think they are entitled to an income from their blogs, despite the fact that they know nobody will pay a subscription for the same content.

▲solyin 15 hours ago | parent [-]

Substack seems to prove there is an audience for some blogger out there that's willing to pay money. Whether there's enough market for that on the open Internet remains to be seen.

▲stackghost 14 hours ago | parent [-]

The earnings distribution on Substack is almost certainly the same as on e.g. onlyfans: a small number of high-profile writers earn big bucks, a slightly-larger number of creators actually earn decent money but not enough to live on, and the vast majority essentially make nothing at all.

▲tastyfreeze 13 hours ago | parent [-]

How is that different than any other human endeavor? Not everybody that fancies themselves a writer is going to have the skill to draw an audience. Just because a few heavy hitters earn the most revenue doesn't mean the model is broken. That is just the way humans are for any given skill.

▲stackghost 13 hours ago | parent [-]

>How is that different than any other human endeavor?

I don't think I understand what you're getting at. Unionized factory workers all get paid the same amount, modulo seniority and other factors, and there is no steep income gradient among auto workers because of this. Is that not a "human endeavor"?

>Just because a few heavy hitters earn the most revenue doesn't mean the model is broken.

The model is broken because the vast majority of blogs are trash. The writers are simply not entitled to be paid by the pageload, because the content is not worth paying for. The large earners are the exception that proves the rule.

▲DangitBobby 12 hours ago | parent [-]

Then people will just choose not to visit? What exactly is your objection?

▲stackghost 6 hours ago | parent [-]

My objection is that x402 expects that if I click on a random link from HN, I'll end up paying.

Fuck that noise. I'm not paying before I have even had a chance to see what the content is.

▲DangitBobby 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I would expect a content preview of some kind the same way they do paywalls now, except the way you resolve the paywall is via micro-payments instead of a subscription.

▲sryantrabot 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

▲alala-lala-lon 17 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

▲arvindravi 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I have a service[0] to resolve financial data for tickers for agents which uses x402. I've seen payments come through every now and then, so while it's not super mainstream, I believe it does work and get's used. Agentic Market[1] is full of such services.

[0] https://filedge.io [1] https://agentic.market

▲spiderfarmer a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They tried it before with BAT. I ended up getting a few cents on a website with 1M unique/month.

▲singingtoday 7 hours ago | parent [-]

I hit a few hundred USD with much less traffic, but my conclusion was the same.

▲nojs 21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As a buyer it’s very handy for handling agent web search tool calls, because it require no login, account management, etc. I’ve got all my local agents set up this way currently.

▲seidalia 18 hours ago | parent [-]

If you don't mind sharing, what are you using for managing agent wallets?

▲rglullis a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think it will boil down to find out how many people out there are not willing to trust their agent with their credit card but are willing to give it a prepaid debit card - which effectively it's what Coinbase is providing, but dressing it as cryptocurrency.

It also means that if this starts getting any traction, then we could expect to start a nice bump in prepaid debit card adoption.

▲lofaszvanitt 21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Nah, they don't want you to earn anything. End of story.

▲embedding-shape 19 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I do want it to work, so just curious does anyone have any positive anecdotes? Can this naturally get picked up by crawlers?

Eeh, have you find any crawler software that actually supports that protocol? I've seen lots of websites implementing support for it, but do people really implement support for a protocol before they see user-agents who could technically use it? If you're seen those user-agents, which ones are they?

▲ddxv 18 hours ago | parent [-]

I see Claude-User the most, but I was a bit unclear how likely it is it's ever hooked up to USDC. Contemplating getting a quick Claude subscription to test but also loath to give them any money.

▲Joel_Mckay a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Arguably it is too late, industrial scale piracy of user input demands a hapless data-entry caste. Even with the new content origin obfuscation attempts, watermarking, and 3rd world human content moderators.

No one is willingly going to tack on a variable cost to their business revenue model. At best, the crawlers/users will simply skip your hosts, or operate in places where gleaning data is still perfectly legal. =3

▲pasportoo an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[flagged]

▲weird-eye-issue 21 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]