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| ▲ | a day ago | parent | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | atq2119 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Right. And I'd add that even with a pre-existing relationship, you easily get into situations of favoritism. The case you describe is one of the few situations where it seems like everything could have been above board. | | |
| ▲ | rmunn a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Yeah, most people only have one personal secretary, and in order to be able to show favoritism to one employee over another it would be necessary for them to be in similar positions. It would be remarkably silly to say "You're giving me the tough coding assignments instead of giving them to your secretary, you're blatantly favoring her" when the secretary was never hired for her coding skills. Favoritism certainly can happen in other situations, of course. Heck, "the GM's girlfriend" is a (negative) trope in tabletop RPG groups for a reason, or spouses favoring each other in competitive board games. And those are situations where (usually) no money is involved, and it's just for fun. Add money to the situation and it can be a dangerous mix. If someone really must end up being a supervisor over his own spouse plus other people, best to have someone neutral double-checking his decisions. It's easy to be blind to one's own conflicts of interest. | |
| ▲ | watwut a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | I would just go ahead and assume people favor own married partners, siblings or kids when they are in these situations. That does not mean executive kids can never be hired, of course. But like, people favorite their own friends or long time colleagues too, even outside romantic relationships. It is not graded school. |
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| ▲ | kleene_op a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | That is such a presumptuous thing to write. Surely there are cases around the world where an employee and his/her boss fell in love, married and that was the end of it. | | |
| ▲ | whilenot-dev a day ago | parent [-] | | > and that was the end of it. Is it...? I feel like there's a lot more to unpack here. What if the thing a person fell in love with was that somebody just had more power (over them)? I'd argue that people should fall in love on equal grounds, so the personality of a partner matters more than the perceived status of power. | | |
| ▲ | tgma a day ago | parent [-] | | It would be super pompous to enact oneself as the arbiter of what kind of love is right or wrong, wouldn't it? | | |
| ▲ | whilenot-dev a day ago | parent [-] | | Keep in mind that the act of falling in love is usually not the thing that makes people stay in love with each other. There are wrong kinds of love that should either be discussed openly, or, if unsure, privately in therapy. Why not? |
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| ▲ | calf a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This is obvious to someone who has internalized the norms of neoliberal capitalism and corporate policy. With a little critical thinking one can easily imagine philosophically that these forbidden transgressions are a kind of socially reproductive circular logic. | | |
| ▲ | rmunn a day ago | parent [-] | | I've read your comment three times and I still don't know exactly what philosophical position you're staking out. What are you saying, exactly? I suspect I'm going to disagree with your position (I certainly disagree with what I think your position is), but before I start arguing against it, it would be nice to actually understand it. | | |
| ▲ | anal_reactor a day ago | parent [-] | | Sleeping with your employee is bad because sleeping with your employee is bad. Same shit as "weed is bad because it's illegal, and weed is illegal because it's bad". For someone who doesn't (sleep with employee / smoke weed) the obvious action here is to criticize (sleeping with employee / smoking weed) because otherwise they're painted to be a bad person. Only a person who (sleeps with employees / smokes weed) would ever say otherwise, and those are bad people so their opinion isn't exactly valid in a civilized social discourse. | | |
| ▲ | tgma a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Precisely. If there were anything inherently wrong with it, you would have to ban most family businesses. Just because some forms of something are undesirable, and a corporation out of laziness/practicalities enacts a general policy to ban all forms of it; that does not make the entire thing morally reprehensible automatically. | | |
| ▲ | rmunn 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | You know how this whole conversation thread started with my saying "the only case where a boss should be sleeping with an employee is if they have a pre-existing relationship", such as being married? Yeah. We're circling back to the original statement. A sure sign that the conversation is no longer productive. |
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| ▲ | rmunn a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | Except that the reasons behind those rules against sleeping with employees is the many, many cases of abuse that have actually happened. Bosses who make it quite clear that the price for a favorable performance review is a sexual favor of some kind. There's even a nickname for this kind of thing in Hollywood — "the casting couch" — and when there's a nickname for it, it's common enough behavior that everybody knows it happens. Not that every single person is doing it, but it's an open secret that it happens a lot in Hollywood. And it's wrong. At its worst it's rape-by-coercion, trying to hide behind a thin layer of plausible deniability. It's not a circular argument at all: the behavior is bad for objective reasons, and that's why it's forbidden. In more favorable cases (where there's no coercion involved) it's still trading something of monetary value for sexual favors, which makes it a form of "prostitution lite". Again, there are objective, non-circular reasons for it to be forbidden. |
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| ▲ | threethirtytwo a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | And I agree. You’re completely right it is totally fucking obvious beyond any reasonable doubt. What you’re not seeing is that the infractions you describe are just drops in a bucket. This guy created billions of dollars and is responsible for the revolution in ML we see today. It is through his foresight that ML is even possible at the scale we see today. He changed the world. He is one of the core people sitting in the center of a global paradigm shift that will change our lives as we know it. You thought this ai stuff was just chat bots? Now it’s writing our software and dismantling academia piece by piece. It’s obvious what’s coming next. What should be ALSO fucking obvious is that kind of change makes fucking a couple employees and some random honey pot from China basically NOTHING in comparison. It doesn’t fucking matter if there’s some unfairness or some kind of bullshit conflict of interest or favoritism in the company because that shit is MINOR. You said sometimes obvious things need to be restated implying that it needs to be restated for me specifically. Let me fucking straight with you. YOU are the one fucking blind to the obvious. Wake up. I guarantee you the board doesn’t give a fuck about any of this shit. They were just waiting for an opportune time to oust him. It was the same for bill clinton. God ousting him for favoritism when favoritism basically exists for almost every company out there? Seriously? If you’re a board member and you’re making billions because of Jensens decisions as a ceo, are you gonna give two shits about favoritism or Jensen fucking some employees? Fuck no you wouldn’t. | | |
| ▲ | rmunn a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Are you saying that because he invented something that changed the world, his misbehavior should be ignored? If that's what you're saying, I wonder where you would draw the line: an affair? Embezzling? Murder? At what point would the misbehavior be so bad that it should not be excused by his past inventions? At what point does the inventor not get to use "But I'm changing the world" as an excuse? Or perhaps I'm misreading you. You did, after all, open with saying that you agree with my comment that you're replying to. So if your only point is "the board didn't care, that was an excuse to get rid of him" and you're not excusing his behavior, then sure, I agree with that statement. His behavior was an open secret among the company, after all; they had to have known, but were willing to ignore it when it was convenient to them. Which is immoral of them, let me add. I agree with you that that's what they did. I do NOT agree (and I hope you're not saying) that it was ethical or moral of them to ignore it until it became publicly known. | | |
| ▲ | adrian_b a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Obviously he must be punished, at least for having an affair with a subordinate, which until now is the only thing that is certainly wrong, from the PoV of the company. However, if he is fired, that is more a punishment for the company than for him, because he is extremely rich and at the age of retirement, so he does not work because he needs to, but just because he enjoys it. A real punishment for him would be to lose without compensation a part of his NVIDIA shares. If it is ever proven that he broke any export control law, then a punishment for that is a decision for the judicial system. | |
| ▲ | threethirtytwo 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | >Are you saying that because he invented something that changed the world, his misbehavior should be ignored? Yes or at best give him a slap on the wrist. You are not comprehending the scale of change that he is involved in. He is shifting the course of humanity. People don't go to jail for cheating. Right? Why don't people go to jail? Because it's not that big of a deal. It's wrong. But the punishment fits the crime. There are ALSO no specific bylaws for firing an executive for an affair. ALSO because it's minor. Most successful executives that are making the company a shitload of value won't fire someone for that. >Which is immoral of them Strict morals is a sort of evil in itself. It displays a lack of intelligence and awareness of how morally grey reality is. In changing the world, Jensen could be involved with the lives billions. He could be responsible for immense poverty or immense wealth and greatness for all of humanity. We don't know, but stopping all of this because of an affair is ludicrous. | | |
| ▲ | rmunn 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Strict morals is a sort of evil in itself. It displays a lack of intelligence and awareness of how morally grey reality is. Now I know what kind of person you are. This is the last time I will (if I notice your username) respond to anything you say. I'm not interested in discussing anything with you. Bye. | | |
| ▲ | card_zero 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It's not the case that doing good makes one's bad deeds less bad. In isolation, I think that quoted line is (morally) correct, though. Moral conundrums abound, I've got a list of several hundred written down somewhere, so being hardline about everything is just a way to be more aggressively wrong. (I'll note that the question of whether to punish somebody is separate from the question of whether they did wrong. What's punishment? It evolved alongside payment and vengeance, and now it has extra functions, such as deterrence, and taking power away from people who are statistically likely to do further bad things. It's related to the paradox of tolerance, and it's a desperate measure. It's not rational. The world should not run on punishment! The rational thing to do is talk everything out. But since that doesn't happen, punishment is the suboptimal but practical solution to conflict. When it comes to punishment, we do take people's good deeds into account. Don't ask me how that should apply to Huang, this is just a footnote.) | |
| ▲ | threethirtytwo 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I could give a shit. You’d do well not to respond to anyone. |
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| ▲ | whoanoway 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | bigstrat2003 a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | > This guy created billions of dollars No, the engineers he employed did. They will continue to do so after his departure. | | |
| ▲ | adrian_b a day ago | parent | next [-] | | That is true, but even if a good CEO does not create the value of the company, but his employees, bad CEOs prevent their employees from doing effective work. There are too many bad CEOs, so the CEOs who are not bad, like the CEOs of NVIDIA and AMD, must still be praised, and the success of their companies was conditioned by them not being bad CEOs. There are a lot of examples when a bad CEO, coming after a not bad CEO, has destroyed a very successful company in a few years. | |
| ▲ | threethirtytwo 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | jensen is pretty technical. He's like elon, very involved with the tech and the day to day. His direction shapes the product MORE than any single engineer. But, I agree with you. The engineers as a whole shape the direction of the product more than jenson. But make no mistake, jensen is a critical part of the whole. |
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| ▲ | zarzavat a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | When men and women share the same environment, they sleep with each other. Regardless of rules, policies or roles. There are only two options, either A) to pretend that it doesn't happen, or B) to acknowledge that it does. The idea that corporate policy could ever control what goes on people's bedrooms is of course absurd, that's just option A. | | |
| ▲ | swiftcoder a day ago | parent [-] | | The point is not to prevent it, the point is to minimise the resulting liability. Whether by re-org'ing so that the people who are sleeping together are not in a direct reporting relationship, or by letting one party go, and so on... |
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| ▲ | a day ago | parent | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | threethirtytwo a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | No they don’t. The president didn’t even lose his job for putting his dick in a secretary’s mouth. A lot of it is just silently ignored if found out. | | |
| ▲ | dirck-norman 19 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | A presidential impeachment that votes along partisan lines has little to do with corporate policies. It seems you have little argument here. Nestlé, Astronomer, Kohl's, Norfolk Southern, BP, NBCUniversal, McDonald's, HP, CBOE - all have removed CEOs for undisclosed company relationship. The only ones that survive are owners with majority stakes, which is very obviously a personal conflict. | | |
| ▲ | threethirtytwo 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | >A presidential impeachment that votes along partisan lines has little to do with corporate policies. Policies that don't exist. They voted him out, he wasn't terminated because of a no fucking employees policy. Also Leading groups as a CEO and leading the country as a president is quite similar in many respects. Fucking direct reports in both cases is frowned upon so I don't think you know what you're talking about. >Nestlé, Astronomer, Kohl's, Norfolk Southern, BP, NBCUniversal, McDonald's, HP, CBOE - all have removed CEOs for undisclosed company relationship. I bet you all of those were just cover stories. There were alterior motives. And I bet you there's hundreds more stories of CEO's having affairs with employees and NOT getting ousted or caught. |
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| ▲ | Kwpolska a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | Firing the president of Trumpistan is much harder than firing the CEO of a public corporation. |
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