So Apple pinky-promises they will record everything you do at home and they won't use it? In any way? I find this really hard to believe. Apple is into ads now, so would you let Google/Meta see and listen inside your home all day? Nope.

▲ comboy 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The point is that they don't have to pinky promise. It's as if you said yubikey pinky promises it won't share your private key.

I think it's actually a very good approach. Obviously depends on actual implementation details, but the premise is good.

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chirau 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

So what was the furore about when that Ring/Amazon superbowl ad happened. They have to promise and they should be able to be held liable if that promise is not kept.

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isodev 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Obviously depends on actual implementation details

So Apple can ship whatever update they want, doing whatever with no oversight or independent review. No thanks - you folks are forgetting the US a surveillance state.

A device with no physical switch for it's microphone and cameras worries me and it's just not worth whatever minor convenience this adds.

	▲	merely-unlikely 4 hours ago \| parent [-]
		> you folks are forgetting the US a surveillance state This is exactly why Apple emphasizes they lack the ability (keys) to decrypt your data stored on iCloud or in transit. US courts will demand it, and this way Apple can say it literally is unable to comply no matter what the court orders. You can certainly choose not to believe them, but at least they are making the legal argument in actual court cases. I don’t see the other big tech companies doing that.

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grishka 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Except if a device has a microphone and a network interface, it has the technical capability of sharing those recordings. The only realistic way to guarantee this sort of thing is to reverse engineer the entire chain between the two and then never install any software updates.

	▲	comboy 4 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Secure Enclave is not a new concept. > The only realistic way to guarantee this sort of thing is to reverse engineer the entire chain between the two and then never install any software updates. Reverse engineer the hardware and not change it, that's the whole point, it's not in the software, only queries after the keyword are passed forward (if I'm understanding correctly, gee I don't even like apple much, things I choose to spend my time on..)

▲ 4fterd4rk 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Conspiracy theories are easy. Now go prove that Apple is lying. They have so much to lose it makes no sense for them to lie.

▲ ruszki 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I think the burden of the proof should be on Apple's side first.

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dd8601fn an hour ago | parent | next [-]

They have been. Through years of use, independent auditing, industry and government certification processes, and their Apple Security Research program.

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fckgw 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They've published several whitepapers and technical documentation on how the secure enclave works and it's been poked at by security researchers for years.

	▲	newspaper1 4 hours ago \| parent [-]
		If it's not open source (with open hardware), you cannot trust it. Whitepapers are great, but who knows what's actually implemented.

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selectodude 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Apple can’t prove a negative. You have to prove they’re lying.

	▲	ruszki 4 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		You can. They do all the time in math and programming.
	▲	newspaper1 4 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		You don't have to prove anything. You need to asses your risk profile and decide if you want to expose yourself to Apple or not.

▲ ethbr1 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The rub with a locked-in, incompatible platform is that a company must not only not be lying now... but into the future.

Anyone who thinks Apple is going to fight for their users if their revenue slips targets and stock tanks is an idiot.

Money talks.

	▲	dd8601fn an hour ago \| parent [-]
		“100% Guaranteed safe and properly managed forever” has never, and will never exist, for anything connected to the world. Least of all with home rolled solutions. Contrary to popular belief.

▲ runjake 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

1. Try to obtain an Apple Security Research Device (SRD)[1] or a jailbroken iPhone.

2. Set up TLS MITM between the device and the Internet. Install the cert on the device.

3. On the device, disable certificate pinning for Apple's apps.

4. Use the device normally, observe all the telemetry flowing to Apple.

You might be a little shocked at the amount of... personal and usage details sent to Apple FQDNs.

Remember: Privacy is a feature of the Apple Marketing dept -- not SWE!

  1. https://security.apple.com/research-device/

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mmmlinux 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Do you have any more info. Or are you just going to hand wave away all the actual details, suggesting we do the research our self.

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danudey 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Let's please dispense with the "trust me bro" paranoia takes. Link to something that demonstrates your point or you're just making baseless accusations that discourage people from trusting actual privacy and security research.

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newspaper1 4 hours ago | parent [-]

You can call Apple support and they can remotely take control of your entire phone. They have access to everything if they want it.

	▲	Bud 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		[dead]

▲ newspaper1 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I won't be risking it. Just use Home Assistant.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/apple-buys-israeli-startup-rep...