| ▲ | JetBrains reported a net financial loss first time in its tracked history(helgilibrary.com) |
| 150 points by thw_9a83c 2 hours ago | 136 comments |
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| ▲ | bdavbdav 44 minutes ago | parent | next [-] |
| All the death knell comments - Is no one looking at the revenue line? Revenue still trending the same. Costs presumably haven't skyrocketed. They've invested in something big. Thats probably a good thing, and often needed to evolve. |
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| ▲ | mjr00 37 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Yeah look at the details below. Revenue is up 6% (which is not amazing but still growth). But staff expenses are up 34.2%. And the real big hint is "Cash Flow From Investing" plunging from -83 million $USD to -469. That's massive. They're staffing up and investing in... something. | | |
| ▲ | usrusr 29 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | > and investing in... something. Reads like aimlessly burning whatever they felt they were able to burn without existential risk on some "also ran" LLM sinkhole. In other words: nothing to see here, same as everybody else. | | |
| ▲ | echelon 24 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > without existential risk To do nothing is to die. I've been a JetBrains subscriber for over a decade. Nobody is going to use their tools in five years. I certainly don't need my subscription anymore. > on some "also ran" LLM sinkhole. They can't do Junie. It's a dead end. They can't do the same thing everyone else is doing either, or they're exactly as you put it: an "also ran" in a very crowded field. The only way for JetBrains to survive is to figure out their Garmin play. They either find some niche within the existing product or - maybe (and very improbably) - they can innovate something wild nobody else has figured out yet that provides a path to new fertile pasture. But that's more the startup path than the thriving incumbent facing innovator's dilemma path. But no matter what, if they stay the course, they're dead. Just like half the people expecting to still be writing code by hand. | | |
| ▲ | Oras 5 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | > They either find some niche within the existing product They should stay in where they started, dev experience and IDEs custom for each language. Entering the AI coding was a mistake in my opinion, I’m sure one can argue that AI coding would have better tooling without their IDEs, but AI coders (Cc and codex) don’t use IDEs anymore so it’s a lost battle before the start | |
| ▲ | sporedro 7 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I love their tools and am keeping my subscription for now, but would have to agree. VSCode has been eating at their users for years now. Jetbrains tools still were much better in my opinion but they are competing with “free” and “good enough”. With AI getting better, the main advantages of Jetbrains are gone. I don’t need a massive IDE anymore. I still need an editor, but there’s hundreds of better tools for quick edits than a massive IDE. It’s a company at the end of the day, but I hope they find a niche or pull a Garmin play like you said, otherwise I don’t see them being relevant. | |
| ▲ | watwut 12 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Just like half the people expecting to still be writing code by hand. I know this is not your main point, but common. If this is true, AI would be the first tech impossible to learn 5 years after it appeared. | |
| ▲ | mschuster91 7 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Nobody is going to use their tools in five years. What will replace it? The dumpster fire called Eclipse, certainly not. The even larger dumpster fire that is Electron based VS Code, also not. And "vibe coding", "agentic AI" etc. will also be a thing of the past once the VC money spigot selling tokens for far below actual cost dries up. The JetBrains portfolio is here to stay. (One might even see a total ban for American products in the EU or a significant push in sovereign technology on the horizon, and JB stands to profit from both options!) | |
| ▲ | noodletheworld 5 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | > I certainly don't need my subscription anymore Sure. I still use mine though; privately and at work. > Nobody is going to use their tools in five years. > they're dead. Just like half the people expecting to still be writing code by hand. Hyperbole much. Leave it on LinkedIn man. Who knows? 5 years is a long time. They're trying to navigate the AI era just like everyone else. You know what we got told at work? “Scrappy AI startups are snapping at our heels, we need to move fast so the competition doesn't over take us” …but if you ask: what startups? Silence. If you ask, why are we scared of some teenager vibe coding a platform and stealing our customers? Silence. Dont question the narrative. Of course AI is an existential threat. Of course there are vibed startups trying to eat our market. Have you not seen our share price? Such hyperbolic BS. Ffs. Calm down. |
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| ▲ | simoncion 27 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | > ...the real big hint is "Cash Flow From Investing" plunging from -83 million $USD to -469. That's massive. They're staffing up and investing in... something. ...or they're bailing out of really bad investments before they become even worse ones... |
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| ▲ | jeroenhd 40 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Jetbrains has been pushing Junie real hard, my guess is that they've been giving out too many cheap tokens to try to stay relevant as Claude and friends pull people away from the IDE. | | |
| ▲ | jermaustin1 8 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | In everyone's day jobs where they used an IDE 5 years ago, or even a year ago, are those jobs abandoning the IDE? I still use Visual Studio in my day job, where Claude's output while VERY helpful, requires my ownership of everything, meaning I am inspecting every single line it changes. If a change is bigger than I think it should, I kill it before I commit. I know I don't HAVE to use an IDE for that, but if the change is small enough, I am faster than asking Claude to understand the subtext behind my personal context of the product, and the IDE is supremely helpful for making a quick change across a handful of files. | |
| ▲ | ipsod 34 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Has anyone had a good experience with Junie, to share? I've tried it, and it seemed fine, but not compelling enough to even spend the free usage I get with my All Products Pack. | | |
| ▲ | poncho_romero 15 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I think Junie is comparable to something like Claude Code or Codex, but moving a little slower feature wise. It's perfectly adequate for developers who want to use AI but don't want to keep up with the bleeding edge of tooling. | |
| ▲ | matsemann 29 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It felt quite competitive about a year ago. But haven't tried it since, no idea how it has held up with the other advancing. What I liked was the tight integration with the IDE. I don't particularly like the way I work with Claude now, still wanting to check the changes, navigate code, ask questions, write some code myself etc. Feel claude mostly is for the "bigger" changes. Sometimes I just want to select some text and refactor it, or ask a stupid simple question without the "chat". | |
| ▲ | jeroenhd 30 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Worked fine as a free tool, but as long as AI companies are selling their slopware tokens below cost with subscriptions, it's not really that interesting in my opinion. The Jetbrains integration is nice, but if you rely on the tool you're probably not going to use the IDE much anyway. | |
| ▲ | Blackthorn 23 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Not personally but Junie was what made the fellow developer I respect most in the world actually start taking notice of LLMs as something useful instead of bad. | |
| ▲ | surgical_fire 10 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I used it for a bit. It is alright to get an LLM review on code I write myself, but getting extra tokens is expensive, and it was not clear if I could configure it to use one of the API keys I have from GLM, MiMo, etc. I tried Air as well. It was alright, but I found it a bit more cumbersome to use then Pi. I tried configuring Pi to be accessed though ACP, but it felt like going through a hoop to have a worse experience. Then again, I am not someone that manages multiple agents in parallel, at most I have one agent implementing something in a different repository while I am doing my own things. Air could maybe be useful for me if I could plug in the LLMs I actually use directly, it is too tied to ChatGPT, Claude, etc. | |
| ▲ | PaulHoule 22 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | I enjoyed it a lot early on. In particular it didn’t have all the confusing and anxiety inducing options that other agents have to use more expensive or less expensive models, I liked the way it approached “plan mode” [1] and I didn’t feel like I had to stress it about token costs the way I do with the other models…. Jetbrains now gives me a choice of agents which I don’t like because having to think about it makes feel like one of those “ai bros” who is overthinking their relationship to ai and underthinking their code. I would like to see one more ide-integrated, like I think running commands like ‘grep’ with the shell is really for the birds (creates a risk that some other command line might be run, the wrong files might be accessed, all that) and rather there should be a specialized toolbox. [1] … I reject vibe coding. Token costs be damned but I always like to have a talk before it starts like “I think…, maybe you should…, does this make sense?, do you have any questions for me before you start?” and later “what are you doing in the code in the selection?” |
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| ▲ | jm4 22 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Apparently, no one commenting knows how to read financial statements. They look at one item and assume the company is going out of business. Meanwhile, their total assets have increased. Cost of services have increased significantly over recent years - mostly commensurate with revenue growth, although the gap has been shrinking. Operating costs have been pretty flat. I don't have time to investigate where they spent the money, but the company is not at risk. They brought in more money than in prior years and spent it on something. That's it. | |
| ▲ | binlog 8 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > They've invested in something big Wonder what the "something big" could be that companies are throwing money into in 2026. | |
| ▲ | bakugo 36 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Or more likely, they're burning cash trying to chase the AI train to no avail while their core product stagnates, which is definitely not a good thing. | | |
| ▲ | moomin 32 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Oh, they don't need a reason to let the core product stagnate. They've been doing that for years. | | |
| ▲ | poncho_romero 13 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | The war in Ukraine and subsequent move to Czechia did seem to hurt them pretty badly, but I wouldn't say they are stagnant. I've been a happy customer of PHPStorm for years and it continues to improve. | |
| ▲ | FeloniousHam 21 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | I only use their DataGrip product. Compared to the competition they are iterating at lightspeed. |
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| ▲ | sofixa 9 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Tbf their core product is at risk by everyone and their mom having an "AI IDE" product. | |
| ▲ | echelon 32 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | There won't be anyone left to pay for the core product. Coding by hand is for dinosaurs. JetBrains needs to figure out the AI workflow that developers will be using over the next decade. Assuming that's going to be a big enough market, of course. A bigger market might be to build for agents and completely autonomous use cases. | | |
| ▲ | Bridged7756 7 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | IDEs are for professionals. I understand that LLMs can one shot a weather app, and I get that it's exciting, but this is not the case with complex software. | | |
| ▲ | fg137 a minute ago | parent [-] | | I agree with you in principle but I am seeing my colleague who supposedly is an experienced engineer just send out 40-file PRs without going through the code. When someone asks why the code does a certain thing he just uses LLM to come up with an answer. Apparently he has no idea what the code is doing and I doubt he reviewed any of it. |
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| ▲ | bakugo 4 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | This yours? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49958850 |
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| ▲ | echelon 37 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | RustRover used to be my daily driver. Now it's Claude Code and ever so occasionally Codex. I never do work in IDEs by hand anymore. I stopped writing code entirely in February and I will likely never write code again unless my internet dies. I need a JetBrains-level AST navigator that focuses on high level code navigation and understanding, and moreover on code and architectural review. I need to quickly scan diffs and quickly see architecture at a glance. Of course even that too many eventually fall away. I rarely open RustRover these days. I could never have predicted that. | | |
| ▲ | esafak 6 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I use https://github.com/DetachHead/rebased, which is based on IntelliJ, for review. | |
| ▲ | user43928 20 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Not sure who downvoted this. JetBrains IDEs are done for. I don't even remember the last time I opened them, I cancelled my All Products pack this year. The advantage it had over vscode was always the better language features and the familiar UI. None of that is useful to me in AI based workflows. Some might still disagree, but the manual development workflow using an IDE is clearly dying. JetBrain's revenue will obviously crater as a result, particularly when slower enterprise licenses follow. | | |
| ▲ | poncho_romero 11 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I "code" using Codex but I still use PHPStorm for checking diffs, database access, reviewing PRs, and the debugger. The value proposition has changed, not disappeared. | |
| ▲ | mjr00 11 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Not sure who downvoted this. If you've been on HN long enough you recognize that the OP is quite prolific in making absurd claims about AI: infamously predicted that children would be making professional, Hollywood level films by the end of 2025, and is now spending their time building the 5000th barely functional clone of Adobe tools[0]. It's probably a little unfair, but they are bold claims from someone who really does not have the ground to be making bold claims. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49958850 | |
| ▲ | swozey 12 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This is like watching weekend car tinkerers argue with Ferrari mechanics about their tooling. "I'm never going to write code ever again." | |
| ▲ | echelon 15 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Not sure who downvoted this. Half of HN hates AI. A large percentage thinks that the current status quo is how things will look over the next decade. They don't think everything is fundamentally and irreversibly changing. Nobody is coming out of this with the same career. The whole world is being rewired. Some people really don't like that. I'm just glad we're out of the web platform / cellphone incrementalism era. I wish more of my career could have been spent with this rocket fuel. It's dangerous and hypergolic, but it's fun and flashy and capable of pulling us out of this gravity well. | | |
| ▲ | cbg0 3 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I use AI on a daily basis and I still found all of your takes in this thread to be silly hyperbole. |
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| ▲ | snarfy 41 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | probably ai related |
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| ▲ | theappsecguy an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Wow, this really sucks. With all the money flocking to companies that trained LLMs on stolen data, we may lose the only set of IDEs that offer high quality professional development tools |
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| ▲ | the__alchemist 41 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I'm surprised that the word "only" still applies. I have my laments about JB (PyCharm / RR): Mainly centered around performance. Yet it has no competition! Whenever I read about VsCode, or Zed as alternatives, I feel disbelief, as they're not in the same league. Zed in particular, from the way it was described upon release, sounded like it should have been a JB competitor. Reality: It can't even move functions or structs! | | |
| ▲ | sebzim4500 31 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I think you are going to get a lot of pushback from people using e.g. typescript, for which VS Code is pretty good. For languages like kotlin, java and even python JB is still way ahead of the competition. | |
| ▲ | gonzalohm 34 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | How is vscode not in the same league?
JB feels way too bloated and slow and doesn't add anything significant over other offerings | | |
| ▲ | gomoboo 27 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | It's not even close. vscode can approximate JB IDEs but that takes pulling in plugins on your own, managing their configuration, and adapting when the setup inevitably breaks. JB IDEs bake in everything you can get via vscode plugins with documentation, a cohesive experience, and regular maintenance to keep them working for you. Concrete examples that are better in JB land for me: git conflict resolution, refactoring (in numerous ways), jumping to definitions, finding usages (especially on Python projects). | | |
| ▲ | ipsod 14 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > It's not even close. That's always been my experience. Not even close. One gives you legos that lets you make a plastic toy, and the other is an industrial machine shop for code. I thought maybe I was holding VSCode wrong, though. | | |
| ▲ | the__alchemist 9 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > I thought maybe I was holding VSCode wrong, though. Likewise (Same with zed). I've given them a thorough try several times, assuming I was holding it wrong as you say based on conversations with others who use them effectively. I've reached the conclusion you say here each time. |
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| ▲ | ipsod 30 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Code intelligence (find usages, go to definition, refactor/rename/move, etc.) and debugging are on another level - more powerful, more reliable, with more edge-cases covered. At least, that was so in dynamic languages, like Python, and PHP, last I checked. | |
| ▲ | matsemann 26 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Maybe there exist better ways, but I'd say every coworker I've seen in a VScode variant uses freetext search to find everything. |
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| ▲ | sebzim4500 44 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Their revenue is still going up so I don't think that's it. | |
| ▲ | onlyrealcuzzo 39 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Only? Microsoft's stuff is quite good, or you've got a really high bar. | | |
| ▲ | Sharlin 32 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Mostly constrained to a single ecosystem and dev/deployment platform - a platform that has never been particularly great for development and has been made vastly less so in the recent years. | |
| ▲ | caaqil 36 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Microsoft > quite good Good one. | | |
| ▲ | pluc 33 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Happy to hate on MS as much as the next guy but VSCode is pretty much the Chrome of the IDE world at this point, that might be what parent was alluding to (since I'd struggle to defend any other Microsoft software). | | |
| ▲ | Sharlin 32 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | VSCode is not an IDE. It's a text editor with some optional bells and whistles. I presume the GP refers to the actual Visual Studio. | | |
| ▲ | folkrav 9 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | It's got an editor, a debugger, code intelligence, a debugger, terminal, task running, test explorer, refactoring tools, project management, and so on. What's an IDE if not a text editor with bells and whistles? | |
| ▲ | taspeotis 27 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Visual Studio is less shit than ever, but only after JetBrains gave MS a firm kick up the ass with Rider. |
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| ▲ | szatkus 18 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | It's really not an option in Javaland. |
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| ▲ | onlyrealcuzzo 32 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | It's almost as if a company can have good and bad products... Microsoft has had a very long reputation (for good reason) for having good developer tooling, even if Windows was not particularly developer friendly... |
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| ▲ | i2km a minute ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Around a year ago, the org I was working for ditched jetbrains (including teamcity) due to alleged Russian links of some of the founders/owners of jetbrains. Never looked into it further, but might be a factor... |
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| ▲ | conradfr 34 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| A bit tongue-in-cheek but I'm amazed by people that don't open an IDE or look at code. Are you paid to press enter at anything that Claude present to you? Personally I usually use Claude inside the Jetbrain's IDE terminal, even if I code by hand obviously less. I still like using the diff, navigation, quick access to any file path for my prompt etc but maybe that won't last. (edit: although I currently use an old perpetual fallback license because I didn't like the last price increase especially as they slowly remove what I like in the UI) |
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| ▲ | patwolf 10 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I used to use Claude inside of a terminal within Webstorm until I realized I rarely looked at the code in the IDE. Instead I was creating draft PRs and reviewing the code in github. Now I use claude inside of herdr, and I appreciate having more screen real estate devoted to claude. As a long-time Jetbrains subscriber it pains me to stop using it. But at this point, I'm not sure what they could come up with that would be compelling enough for me to switch back. | | |
| ▲ | cmrdporcupine 3 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Their coding agent "Junie" is actually really good. The problem is they force you through only a few curated models. And try to funnel you through them to subscribe to do it, too. It's not like Pi or opencode that lets you just point at an OpenAI API endpoint and then choose whatever model. If I recall you can even actually use local models, or openrouter etc, but only use models from their curated list. It's insane. They tried to stick themselves in the middle, and failed. Nobody will use it. They've also done so many pivots on AI, all of them weakly and annoyingly done. They could have just taken the loss and written an amazing coding agent that integrated well with their IDE -- amazing integrations with their refactorings, etc. -- but that played well in other people's ecosystems but they refused and tried to own the whole pipe. Their latest attempt is to allow you to connect to and run other people's agent harnesses inside the IDE and it works well enough but it wasn't enough to grab me since I (like you) use herdr on another machine to do the coding. |
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| ▲ | bsoqk 8 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >Are you paid to press enter at anything that Claude present to you? I'm paid to create a product. If Claude does so without me having to look at the code, then that's what I'm being paid to do. | |
| ▲ | user43928 10 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Using a CLI coding agent in your IDE's terminal is a terrible way to view conversation history and works poorly for organizing multiple conversations. It only fits a hands-on, merely AI-assisted development approach, on one feature at a time, that is not typically productive compared to agentic development. You might disagree, but you'll find that the proponents of the hands-on approach are losing ground every month as AI gets better at working autonomously. | | |
| ▲ | conradfr a minute ago | parent [-] | | I'll admit I'm currently not up to speed on having multiple features worked at the same time, with git worktrees etc. |
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| ▲ | vel0city 6 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | When you give a ticket to a jr developer, do you look over their shoulder the entire time they write the code? Or do pause to answer questions, give feedback on how to go about a task, and review their results? | |
| ▲ | ipsod 24 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | I'm paid to produce software that has features and works. Nobody cares how I get there or how ugly the code is. They care how fast I can do it and how reliable the software is. I look at code sometimes, in down time, to see what's been done terribly by AI, and to fix it and hopefully fix the process so that things don't get done terribly in that particular way in the future. | | |
| ▲ | poncho_romero 8 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | It's not about "how ugly the code is". Poor solutions heaped on top of poor solutions can result in a system with real users and intractable issues. I'm all for AI, but not reviewing the code seems likely to cause issues long term. | |
| ▲ | swozey 9 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Whats your YOE, like when did you enter tech as a SWE? This shouldn't be normalized for you yet unless you're at a faang pushing this at the edge and new to the field, cause this isn't what we used to do 2 years ago. If you're happy with the ai slop $$$ job more power to you but that isn't the entire field and there used to be (and hopefully still are) good and fun engineering jobs. Contrary to popular normie belief, no not everyone wants to work at the Metas and OpenAIs and for good reason. |
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| ▲ | leobuskin 24 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It's purely management fault, it happened around 2022-2023. They had all the chances to become a great agentic IDE/harness at some point, if they would start in time, support plugin developers, allocate a proper team instead of 2 people and some semi-random internships. A lot of users were questioning this publicly and privately with them, we all knew how it will end this way. JetBrains lost, no one wants their Junie in 2026 (and didn't want in 2024-2025, whatever was the name of the integration at that time, it was awful). I was on Ultimate Plan since 2012, appx. I quit entirely in 2024. They asked to answer a few surveys over the last few years - even the questions there were far from reality. RIP, JetBrains, it's mostly unrecoverable at this point. |
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| ▲ | dhruv_ahuja 20 minutes ago | parent [-] | | What IDEs and harnesses do you use now?
I assume you would have had a lot of your classic coding workflows dependant on the jetbrains suite | | |
| ▲ | leobuskin 12 minutes ago | parent [-] | | CC + my own custom tools, I don't see any reason to pay for devtools in 2026 (same as trying to monetize them, or even just share/distribute). My first custom solution was built on top of JB's core in early 2024, btw, but not any more. JetBrains "suite" doesn't really lock you in, it's more like "aura" of the product itself that made me attached for almost 13 years (I never was able to switch, I still think VS Code is so ugly and counter-intuitive in comparison with JB). |
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| ▲ | jadar 40 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I still haven’t found an IDE that I feel really helps me develop with AI better than the command line. I have built bespoke tools that work the way I want. But a really good integrated solution would blow my current workflow out of the water. No one seems to have built an IDE with deep support for worktrees, parallel session, walking me thru diffs, and optionally handing control back to me to write the occasional hand-written code myself. Plus most of my work is done on mobile, so Jetbrains has an amazing opportunity…but they seem to be chasing the competition instead of focusing on their moat. |
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| ▲ | xnorswap 13 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Right now there's a huge friction with IDEs, that if I have it open while claude is working on something, then any caches it has get stale very quickly, and it churns processing trying to keep up with edits. Any leverage that claude could benefit from LSPs or language/AST MCPs is undone by that tooling not being able to keep up or stay fresh, so the IDE just "runs hot" for no purpose. Which means I'm incentivised to close my IDE while claude is working, and now I've got used to not looking at the code. Like you, I really want a system that works better. I want claude to search and edit through better tooling, it would be faster, more accurate, and should in theory be able to leverage compilers to apply edits better and more accurately. I don't want claude wasting an awful lot of time grepping for things that a compiler cache can answer, but if that compiler cache can't keep up then it's actively harmful. I'm sure there must be a better way, there must be a way to have smarter more change-aware cache invalidation, and smarter more cache-aware claude tool use, but so far none has happened. Long term I'm sure the pairing will emerge, but unfortunately I don't think that's going to come from the IDE vendor side, it'll have to come out of some harness research lab, where Anthropic or a competitor finds a way to reliably leverage this stuff for a speed and accuracy boost. It's completely bonkers to me that an LLM can almost "natively" read profiler output, but doing so involves vast amounts of text and context ingestion, when there are real tools sitting there that it ignores in preference for either reading vast amounts or iffy python one-shot scripts to parse stuff. | |
| ▲ | poncho_romero 19 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I think this is what JetBrains Air is supposed to be. I haven't had a chance to test it but it seems promising. https://www.jetbrains.com/air/ | | |
| ▲ | quantiq 14 minutes ago | parent [-] | | It still suffers the same problems as Junie, which is that their harness is far too bloated. |
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| ▲ | alfg 26 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Same. I feel like JetBrains has an advantage here, so I'm hoping they're working on something compelling. The traditional IDE setup is quickly dying. I'm usually working between VSCode and Codex/Claude Code at the same time, but find myself mostly in latter these days. | |
| ▲ | thr0w 34 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Sublime was/is still the best, unfortunately had to finally abandon it due to lack of first-class agent support. Hard to find something that emphasizes core text editing first and that doesn't constantly have some new update to apply on start that may break or change something. | | | |
| ▲ | gaybees 31 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Maybe something like delta? This is still pretty new from the folks that make Zed, but looks promising and would address some of the things you mention https://delta.dev/ | |
| ▲ | the__alchemist 38 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It feels like JB is trying that, but it hasn't materialized in a way I understand yet; they have a handful of AI tools, and I don't fully understand them at this point, nor how they integrate and what roles they fill. (June, Air, AI asssistant, AI autocomplete) | |
| ▲ | caaqil 33 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | > most of my work is done on mobile Can anything serious/complex be done on mobile? I'm genuinely curious. It's seems bizzare in the context of IDE and tooling discussion. |
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| ▲ | stingraycharles 12 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| That’s interesting, as we have just completed a huge migration of our CI/CD infrastructure off Teamcity, for plenty of reasons but “we’re paying a shit ton of money for this and it’s a pain in the ass” was a major one. They seem to be very bloated and unable to modernize their product lines. |
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| ▲ | jazdw 9 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I've been thinking about doing the same, what did you migrate to? I was thinking GitHub actions but the outage yesterday reinforced that it might be a bad idea. | | |
| ▲ | stingraycharles 4 minutes ago | parent [-] | | We migrated to buildkite, as it allowed self hosted agents and lots of “building blocks” to extend stuff ourselves. One of the things we really use heavily is dynamic pipelines, as we have a lot of different stuff. In teamcity, we had close to 1k build configs, and were able to replace this with about 20 dynamic pipelines in buildkite. We did need to do a bunch of plumbing, but in this age of AI it means our developers don’t have to rely on devops anymore to get their stuff done to make all this work. One of the problems was that our devs were “afraid” to alter teamcity build configs, as it all was more fragile than it should be and they were afraid to break stuff. Teamcity allows for customization with plugins, but all that is so bloated with either Java or Kotlin and requires a shitton of domain specific knowledge to pull off. Buildkite is much simpler with YAML and their plugin infrastructure which is effectively just hooks into scripts. It’s well designed. |
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| ▲ | ActionHank 10 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Interesting, what did you migrate to? We've had mixed results in reliability between ADO and Github actions. |
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| ▲ | zdc1 34 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The real surprise is how small their balance sheet is given they're such a well known and loved name. 16m CZK is 0.7m USD annual revenue. There are companies where you'd rather be the owner, and others where you'd rather be an employee, or a customer. I think the JetBrain's customers are the real winners in this one. |
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| ▲ | rfgplk 6 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | The metric itself is in millions, so the value is 16 trillion CZK ~= 738 billion USD | |
| ▲ | jen20 28 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > 6m CZK is 0.7m USD annual revenue. It's 16,000 * 1 million CZK, so ~730m USD, no? | |
| ▲ | borplk 23 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | 0.7M USD annual revenue for Jetbrains? That can't be right. Their annual revenue is 400M+ USD from my quick search. |
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| ▲ | synthc 14 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I would love if the Jetbrains IDE's got really good agent integration,
all their code analysis could have amazing synergy with LLM's,
Unfortunatly for now I disabled all AI features as it was slowing my IDE (JetBrains) to a crawl. |
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| ▲ | runetech 43 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I still love my IDEA & Rider, but a lot of my attention has moved to VSCode with Claude Code plugin. The Claude plugin/tooling for these IDE's is abysmal in comparison (talking strictly about the Claude Code experience here - not the bundlende AI Assistant. I am not moving away from JetBrains anytime soon, but it does gets harder to justify when I spend considerable time in a competing offering that has better experience and is free... |
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| ▲ | olejorgenb 34 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Jetbrains lost our entire (small) team a few years back when they completely neglected (no, to minimal progress for years) their typehint support in PyCharm. I think they now finally have caught up somewhat judging from the updated on all the issues in youtrack I'm still subscribed to. |
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| ▲ | swozey 17 minutes ago | parent [-] | | What did your python people move to from pycharm? Every team I've worked on has been about 30% python (70% go) and the python people have always had pycharm installed and ready to go for their python days. I've always had a personal ultimate sub even though I use vscode 99%. There would be a lot more ultimate subs barely used like mine if they weren't 3-4x the price of the singles. I've never felt justified in asking for ultimates business price for how little I use it, but my teams always have a pycharm license. |
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| ▲ | LogicArsenal 44 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Revenue is up. Looks like they took on a lot of debt. What did they spend it on? |
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| ▲ | swader999 14 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This along with stack overflow seems to be the end of an era. Stack overflow had my back and JetBrains was like a super magical tool that I could tackle code bases with. |
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| ▲ | giancarlostoro 41 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| They keep trying to bite into AI but they should focus on making their tools more stable and should have invested more into Kotlin Native, could of had a fully native IDE and tooling by now and purged reliance on the JVM. They could have bought out Cursor early on too. |
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| ▲ | efficax an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Engineers abandoning IDEs or did they burn a ton of cash on AI? |
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| ▲ | SkyPuncher 44 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I have paid out of pocket for Jetbrains for 15 years. I don’t think I’ve opened it in the past year and should probably cancel my subscription. For me, the things that made Jebteains great just don’t matter anymore. | | |
| ▲ | kugelblitz 42 minutes ago | parent [-] | | What do you use then? I still use it a lot for reviewing the code. | | |
| ▲ | cbg0 12 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | You'll be surprised (or not) to find out a lot of people aren't using anything. Claude gets asked to build it, then some other clown uses their copy of Claude to do the PR review and then it gets merged. | |
| ▲ | KptMarchewa 37 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | It is a good code viewer but way too heavy if you want to switch between branches often on a sufficiently large product. |
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| ▲ | mrweasel an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | What stands out to me is https://www.helgilibrary.com/companies/jetbrains/total-cash-... I have no idea what that contains, but it appears to be a rather large dip, compared to previous years. Overall it's not really that interesting without context and commentary from JetBrains. | |
| ▲ | 1899-12-30 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | given that their revenue is still increasing, I'm guessing it's the latter | | |
| ▲ | onionisafruit 34 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Their revenue is increasing, but their profits have been on a decline despite increased revenue. The table on that page only goes back to 2021, but the trend of increasing revenue and decreasing profits has been going on at least that long. I don’t think ai would have been a factor that far back. Even though github copilot did launch sometime around then, I doubt it was much of a factor. |
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| ▲ | InsideOutSanta 42 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I find IntelliJ IDEA a great tool, even for my fully vibecoded apps. I edit the READMEs in it, look at the version history, use it for debugging, for builds, and so on. My guess is that people aren't abandoning their IDEs. Their market is probably growing. I suspect they're burning money on subsidized inference, just like everybody else. | |
| ▲ | patadura an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Like or not, LLM are getting better a debugging than humans... Not sure for how long will companies will keep paying for IDEs (which, tbf, are peanuts compared to the LLM cost). | |
| ▲ | ThatPlayer an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Why not both? If engineers are abandoning IDEs then shouldn't they be following the engineers? | |
| ▲ | romanovcode 11 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Both | |
| ▲ | vachina 44 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | The truth is there is no money to be made from (good) offline software. |
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| ▲ | xmpir 27 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Impressive European business with ~750m USD in revenues and global footprint. Hope they innovate themselves into profitability again |
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| ▲ | chii 19 minutes ago | parent [-] | | The new AI script-kiddies might not be in the target market for purchasing an IDE, so i think their customer base may potentially be shrinking. Which is a shame really - this is similar to old blacksmithing tools. |
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| ▲ | markus_zhang an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I don't think they can compete with AI IDEs. They should maybe focus on the niche that they are good at, and completely get rid of anything ML/AI related. It's going to be a lot cheaper. It's better to be the king of a niche. |
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| ▲ | rfgplk 2 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | They could establish a foothold in AI accelerated development but they sadly aren't doing it, instead focusing on "developing agents" (aka openclaw/pi/codex/claude simulacrum #9998). | |
| ▲ | maxdo 43 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | like what , manually refactor code in hours, when agent can do it for you in minutes, or setting up debug/dev env when agent can also do that for you? | | |
| ▲ | Applejinx 18 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Manually refactor code in days if need be, when you have something specific in mind and intend a particular result. 'refactor' isn't just a blender. If I wanted agentic coding I would just do that. I'm quite happy for other people to so completely entangle themselves in agentic coding that they can't get out. Please proceed. to add: I'm a paying JetBrains customer, but they could lose me if they vibecode themselves into a pile of slop. I'm not sure they're doing that, even if they're dabbling in it. I think there's still expertise there. |
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| ▲ | Theodores 41 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | This would make sense for me, as a long time Jetbrains user and not desiring to use AI for anything apart from single line code completion, which the current Jetbrains tools do quite well. I have used their support before, to be extremely impressed. This is an area that they could differentiate themselves in. |
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| ▲ | jt2190 40 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I’m trying to contextualize this information. JetBrains isn’t publicly traded best as I can tell, and these numbers come from other public filings: > Figures are the company's own (unconsolidated) statutory statements filed with the Czech business register… Are these as reliable as the U.S. 10K or its European equivalent? I assume that a company like JetBrains would be investing in shifting products around A.I., so it doesn’t seem too surprising that they don’t report a profit for 2025. |
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| ▲ | havblue 26 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It isn't as much the price of a license as much as the time it takes to get approval for newer engineers and contractors. You can just say, "we use vs code with these extensions and wsl2" and the discussion is over. |
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| ▲ | zkmon 28 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| An IDE connects a human coder to the development process. If the role of that coder changes in that process, the IDE connection is not going to be as heavy as it used to be. |
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| ▲ | NoHedgeAllBets 42 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Unfortunate because they make great products, but also expected given AI. A bit like Nokia, they're a great company that didn't do anything particularly wrong but they got swept by a superior technology. |
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| ▲ | pelagicAustral 14 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| They need to put a whole lot of love in Junie, but even at that Warp is already miles ahead... so playing catch up is going to be a tough one. |
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| ▲ | igleria 13 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| loss size must be correlated with the memory usage of webstorm on my work machine... |
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| ▲ | serial_dev 36 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| They only need to have some hundreds of billions of loss extra, and they might be the next big thing! |
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| ▲ | fidotron 42 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Android Studio always was Google acquisition bait, but now they are going to need to be more serious about it. |
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| ▲ | rfgplk 8 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| No disrespect meant, but I don't see how companies like JetBrains can survive (and I've read their financial statements, their revenue growth is still decent). All their revenue comes from products and services that are effectively a long-form agentic session, proven by how many OSS replicas of their stack is out there. Their Junie agent (itself a replica of all other agents on the market) can ITSELF be replicated in a few dozen prompts, as evidenced by the 1000+ GitHub agent repos out there, most of whom are operated by a single college student. What's worse is that JetBrains' primary customer base is supposed to be composed of technical users and developers, the exact cohort that should be skilled enough to use LLMs to replicate their services for effectively zero cost. I guess the only thing that's saving them is inertia and goodwill. |
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| ▲ | perbu an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Software is changing. It would be a good time to invest rather than to focus on the bottom line. Their revenue is up. I’m not surprised. |
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| ▲ | saadn92 43 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Yep, I don't remember the last time I opened up an IDE anymore. I mainly built my own open source AI coding orchestrator lol: https://github.com/saadnvd1/agent-os The landscape is changing significantly, and I think these types of tools will become more popular. |
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| ▲ | micromacrofoot 25 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| All the air is getting sucked out of software companies due to AI, I'm seeing it happen in a number of places. Though in this case it may be due to their own AI investment on internal projects. |
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| ▲ | keel-control an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| they're finished |
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| ▲ | maxdo 44 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| why this is a surprise? I have 0 reasons to buy IDE in 2026. Their main moat was smart refactor, and a few other nice tools to debug. regardless of what you think about coding is done, agents and your harness is the best tool. I heard they doing business accelerator to find a new business ideas. But as a company, hardly imagine anyone buying expensive IDE in 2 years. Why? |
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| ▲ | cbg0 38 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | > regardless of what you think about coding is done, agents and your harness is the best tool. I guess you're all in on that Anthropic IPO with the "coding is solved" approach. | | |
| ▲ | greyw 31 minutes ago | parent [-] | | There will always be people that write code with pen and paper. Its going to be an art form though rather than something productive. |
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| ▲ | jen20 27 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | > why this is a surprise? I have 0 reasons to buy IDE in 2026. If the first part follows the second, the surprise is that revenue is up while the prevailing opinion appears to be "no-one needs to buy an IDE". |
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| ▲ | jcmontx an hour ago | parent | prev [-] |
| IDEs are on a steep decline, so not so surprising. I've disabled most code extensions from vscode and find myself using multiple terminals and the built in git diff UI. I barely see the code _as a whole_, only care about the _code_ changes. edit: added the extra words + I must mention I'm talking about legacy maintenance projects |