| ▲ | NASA asked several former SR-71A staffers to help secret restart(aviationweek.com) |
| 66 points by ilamont 16 hours ago | 78 comments |
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| ▲ | walrus01 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| I'd be more astonished if there isn't something superior to the SR71 (likely unmanned) that has been flying around at night from facilities like Groom Lake for years. Look at how long the RQ180 was flying around in semi-public and known about before it became seen in daylight by plane spotters in Greece. And a long time before that there were public relations approved photos of the Lockheed Martin Polecat. There were a series of extremely public quotations from senior DoD officially recently about how they plan to aggressively retire the Global Hawk program (which is a mostly non stealth aircraft), reading between the lines it's because they have something much better. edit: for those who haven't seen the RQ180: https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=RQ180+gre... edit 2 (apologies for the X link): https://x.com/MechDesignxyz/status/2041281689838584193 |
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| ▲ | hilsdev 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I suspect everything comparable of late has been orbital, which begs the question what is it they’re worried about with orbital? Satellite warfare is already accelerating if the rumors are true, is it that this is untouchable still? Is there some new camera sensor where eliminating that extra atmospheric diffraction or slowing down (lol) is needed? | | |
| ▲ | walrus01 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I am sure that the orbital capabilities are also vastly improved from what the public has ever seen. But I think there's likely a high degree of tactical value in having something that can keep station over a certain active conflict area (as an RQ180 can, maybe flying in a racetrack pattern at altitude, with sensors aimed down). If you've ever seen the publicly released videos and audio of an RQ9 operator in communication with ground units watching the activity of a group of men/vehicles on the ground, in live real time, something like that. As compared to periodic revisits by LEO orbit satellites that don't maintain persistent live coverage, or the extreme distance and data acquisition problem that aiming sensors in geostationary orbit at a 10x10km target area might pose. | | |
| ▲ | Demiurge an hour ago | parent [-] | | There are satellites in geostationary orbit that have realtime live feed and agile pointing capability. However, besides the SAR, RGB style observations are limited by clouds, and also you can’t switch out the sensors on a whim. Airborne platforms are always more flexible and cheaper for certain missions. | | |
| ▲ | walrus01 an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Without leaking anything that's even remotely close to classified, WAMI (wide area multispectral imagery) sensor systems that can mount on even relatively medium sized group 3 UAV are really damn good these days. This is a pretty basic unit compared to the things that aren't publicly known: https://www.logostech.net/products/redkite/ https://www.logostech.net/products/blackkite-i/ | | | |
| ▲ | adastra22 41 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | I think you are confused. Spy satellites do not use geostationary orbits. | | |
| ▲ | walrus01 35 minutes ago | parent [-] | | It's not something I can cite with any public URL to a website that's an authoritative source, but if by 'spy' you include SIGINT satellites in that category, yes they absolutely do... Ever seen a diagram of a Boeing (Hughes) 702 series satellite bus and antenna system built for L/S-bands like frequency ranges similar to those used by Thuraya, Inmarsat and Iridium handhelds? It's widely accepted in the commercial two way satellite telecom industry that the NSA has comparable things with big unfolding umbrella-like antennas in geostationary which serve a similar purpose for signals collection. |
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| ▲ | tiffanyh an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Didn’t satellites with superior optics and realtime video streaming … kill the need for an SR71 update? | | |
| ▲ | t2r3121 an hour ago | parent [-] | | For visual and SAR, sure, but there are other missions like electronic warfare and signals intelligence that are still well served by aircraft. | | |
| ▲ | adastra22 42 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Not by a mach 3+ aircraft. Good luck getting signals through the plasma of your own wake! |
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| ▲ | greesil an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This has got to be a trump thing. "Big beautiful ramjets!" And so on | | |
| ▲ | c0nducktr 34 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Yeah it seems most likely it's because someone connected to the administration just thinks they're cool. Trying to find reason behind so much of this shit is a fools errand. Vibes based presidency. |
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| ▲ | stickfigure 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > I'd be more astonished if there isn't something superior to the SR71 Makes me wonder if this whole operation is just public cover for something like that. | | |
| ▲ | tclancy an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | The problem is the people in charge now have not earned that kind of faith. If they’re truly trying to relight these things, my heart goes out in advance to the neighborhood in the Southwest that burns down before they rethink it. | | |
| ▲ | sippingabonedry an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | > The problem is the people in charge now have not earned that kind of faith. If you set partisan politics aside for 90 seconds, you might realize that regardless of the administration publicly in charge, the government is always doing stuff behind closed doors that your brain could not even begin to comprehend how they pull it off. Stories like this hilariously implausible "grizzled old man casually leaks secret program to Aviation Week" is like throwing a cat a ball of yarn. | | |
| ▲ | stickfigure 13 minutes ago | parent [-] | | On the other hand our commander-in-chief (engineering expert that he is) has ordered the Navy to switch back to steam catapults on an already half-built carrier. That will also require bringing back 70 year old retirees. Pretty sure Trump would switch back to coal if he could find any living boilermakers. Sometimes bad ideas are just stupidity. |
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| ▲ | adastra22 40 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | This is Isaacman we're talking about. He is about as good faith as they get (low bar, I know, but for real this time). |
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| ▲ | walrus01 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Or something as mundane as cleaning up and fixing something that's been out in the weather for 20 years so it doesn't look shabby at the front gate of their base. | | |
| ▲ | Waterluvian 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I don’t know anything but I can’t imagine they need specialists if it’s just a cosmetics job for a monument. | | |
| ▲ | walrus01 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Or the whole "retired guy in his late 70s gives a quotation to aviation week" is a red herring intended for US adversaries, which seems like a fairly basic ruse, but might have been put together as a coordinated plan. It could have its own value of sending opposing nation state intelligence agencies and air defense people down a man-hour wasting dead end of investigating something that'll never happen. |
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| ▲ | dreamcompiler an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | If they were doing that they would say so. In fact if they were smart they would say that regardless of the true story. The fact they aren't saying that means they're either stupid or playing 4D chess. I know which I'd bet on. | | |
| ▲ | walrus01 an hour ago | parent [-] | | Another theory is that some smart people already know better, and they know they're going to waste many millions of dollars investigating its feasibility, but they've been given an order from Whiskey Pete and have to at least go through the motions of writing a study/detailed report on why it's not possible to reactivate in a reasonable amount of time or budget. Never underestimate how often the US military will send a group of subordinate people to do what is effectively busy-work. |
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| ▲ | adventured 36 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | The SR-71 is because they need to test for speed. That serves a huge number of things both offense and defense: engagement, radar, missiles, trying to boost the speed capabilities of new planes & weapons. And it applies both to manned and unmanned planes. Russia is less of a concern now, however China is coming on very fast in terms of leveling up their military capabilities. I'd be very surprised if the US military isn't looking to push its capabilities around increasing speed generally, just as it does any other aspect. There hasn't been a significant leveling up in US Air Force speed capabilities in many decades (since the F22 supercruise three decades ago?). |
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| ▲ | King-Aaron 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I know it's probably a forbidden topic around these parts, but the 'tic tac' thing that those FA18 pilots saw several years ago may be indicative of what Lockheed etc are flying up there. It's a hot topic in conspiracy circles but it wouldn't surprise me if a bulk load of ufo sightings were black projects being tested. | | |
| ▲ | bigyabai an hour ago | parent [-] | | If those tic-tac videos were actually a classified aircraft, those airmen would have signed an NDA before they left the carrier. The fact that we know about it (and see the FLIR videos, regularly, released by the government) suggests that they are exactly what they claim to be; UFOs. It could be phenomena, it could be noumenon. We've seen a lot of the stuff that used to be classified from Skunk Works, none of them are supersonic orb prototypes or flying tic-tacs. I'm not saying they can't develop that technology and hide it from the public, but it's unclear how all of the puzzle pieces we have fit together to support "Lockheed sends flying orb to Syria without telling CENTCOM" in any way. | | |
| ▲ | walrus01 an hour ago | parent [-] | | The Tacit Blue is kinda tic-tac shaped (with wings sticking out the sides), but it's also a historical museum artifact now and, as far as I know, was quite slow and cumbersome. |
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| ▲ | buildsjets 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| NASA (Specifically, hotshot NASA administrator Jared Isaacman) is fixing to kill themselves some pilots. Trivia, SR71 backseater Colonel Robert J. Roetcisender, RIP, on the right in the image below, was the designated pilot examiner who did my private pilot checkride many many years ago. It was pretty intimidating. All he asked is that I make the flight as boring as possible. https://www.blackbirds.net/sr71/sr-crew-photos/SR71-crews/da... |
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| ▲ | bigyabai 42 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Generations of aviation enthusiasts will look back on the legendary risk management of NASA and wonder how it was entrusted to a MiG-29 aerobatics pilot. | | |
| ▲ | dboreham 37 minutes ago | parent [-] | | This doesn't make much sense. NASA famously has killed two shuttle crews through bean-counter/suits mis-management. Why would having someone who has flown to space (twice) and both flies and manages the maintenance and restoration of fast jets be worse? | | |
| ▲ | bigyabai 28 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Kash Patel might have experience hiding his alcohol abuse and taxpayer-funded vacationing, but that doesn't qualify him as an espionage expert fit to lead the FBI. NASA's problems are funding-related, nobody ever looked at JPL and said that they needed a airshow pilot or astronaut in order to stop the layoffs. Issacman is another in a long line of blatantly political appointments that were installed to prevent actual national progress. He doesn't hide his conflict of interests, regardless of how seriously he might take the position. |
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| ▲ | Centigonal an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This feels like the steam catapault kerfuffle from earlier this year. Maybe I'm missing some vital reason these retired technologies must be revived, but it's not inspiring when our military doctrine is "let's go back to what worked 60 years ago" |
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| ▲ | justin66 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > The Air Force and NASA destroyed a $600 million supply of spare parts for the Blackbird fleet in 2007. The move came long after it seemed unlikely, if not impossible, that an SR-71A would return to operational service. There's also the issue of converting a tanker back so it can carry the SR-71's unique fuel again. And for that matter, making a supply of JP-7 again. No other planes today use JP-7. "It's not my money!" |
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| ▲ | trhway an hour ago | parent [-] | | it looks like it would be much easier to get a powerful regular fighter jet engine (even old Mig-25 engines were fine for 2.8M), stick it to pilotless frame and just launch. Work a bit on intake shape, modern materials, CFD, and probably you can push it well into 3+. | | |
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| ▲ | cjbgkagh 34 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I’m with the old guy on this, too long since it last flew. It makes no sense to me, it would be an expensive and pointless vanity project. Sounds like there is a chain of people too afraid to say no, perhaps they’re hoping to drag their heels until priorities change again. |
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| ▲ | dzonga an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| people behave like engineers grow on trees. or processes can be restarted if they were not preserved and actively practiced. |
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| ▲ | walrus01 an hour ago | parent [-] | | > or processes can be restarted if they were not preserved and actively practiced. One of the reasons why the UK went vastly over budget and behind schedule when they built the first Astute class submarine, because almost everyone who had domestic UK based hands on experience building a nuclear sub had long since retired. There's certain technical things, both military or non military, where if you stop making them for a long period of time (at even a minimal rate of production), the institutional capacity to implement them dissolves away. |
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| ▲ | whatshisface 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| As time goes on, Warhammer 40k will become a better and better guide to current events, apparently. Only one question: after recovering this lost standard template constructor pattern, how will the rites be learned to appease such a venerated machine spirit? |
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| ▲ | fmajid 36 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Fun fact: the US could not produce enough titanium to manufacture them, so the CIA set up shell companies to buy some from the Soviets. |
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| ▲ | gcanyon 37 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| While they're at it they should try re-flying the Valkyrie... |
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| ▲ | trevithick 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Why would they do this? > And Lockheed’s operational manuals for the SR-71A still exist—and are superb... I appreciate this level of documentation. |
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| ▲ | anorphirith an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Nasa reported they're not restarting the actual plane, it would cost too much money, they're making a new one based on the SR-71 |
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| ▲ | consumer451 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| A-12 (Oxcart) pilots say that the SR-71 was the station wagon version :) |
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| ▲ | 0xbadcafebee 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| To give you an idea how ridiculous this is: to start each engine, they made a cart out of two Buick V8 engines tied together - so four V8 engines to start the plane. Those V8 engines were long since out of production, so at one point they went around the country, to every junkyard, buying up every one of those V8s they could find, so they would have spares to start planes up in different places. If an SR71 had an issue and landed at an unusual airport, they had to fly the start cart and other equipment to that airport to start the plane again. Everything about this plane is expensive and one-of-a-kind. It's a hot rod that goes to space. |
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| ▲ | AnimalMuppet an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Rather than re-engineer the cart to use a different block? I mean, I guess when a part reaches end-of-life, your first move is to buy as many as you can, before you try to re-engineer things so it isn't needed, but... horsepower is horsepower. Torque is torque. It shouldn't be that hard to replace... | |
| ▲ | dboreham 39 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Granted there are likely many obstacles to getting this airframe flying again, but the V8s probably isn't one of them. All those V8s did (and I've seen them in action) was turn a shaft. There's an infinite number of alternate options available to turn the same shaft. |
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| ▲ | arlattimore 40 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It'd be incredible to have an SR-71 flying again, just simply __because__! |
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| ▲ | yodon 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The SR-71 is cool, but this article is not at all confidence inspiring on many fronts. Guy being interviewed by a reporter about a secret project. A secret project that is trying to resurrect an antique plane that has been subject to weather and on display as a museum piece for many years. It sounds like a clown-show staged around a cool looking plane that's older than 90+% of HN readers. |
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| ▲ | caidan an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | It’s almost certainly being done by clowns on the orders of one of the clowns in chief. Note that quote, “I would drop everything to work on that” said guy who did not in fact drop anything to work on that. Reading between the lines I can hear old Mr loaf belting out “I would do anything for love, but I won’t do that!” | |
| ▲ | somenameforme an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | There was something special about the 60s in the US. Your comment implies you might not appreciate how absurd the SR-71 was. The F-35 is our latest fighter jet. It has a top speed of 1200 mph, the SR-71 had a top speed of 2200 mph. The F-35 is capable of operating at around 50,000 ft, the SR-71 was capable of operating at 85,000 ft. The F-35 has a self fueled range of about 1350 miles, the SR-71 had a self fueled range of 2,900 miles. Look up aviation records and you'll find the SR-71. It even still holds the #1 spot for the fastest airflight (by a plane) ever. Basically, the SR-71 is old, but old doesn't mean antiquated. The 60s was the era that we went from knowing basically nothing about space, to putting a man on the Moon in 7 years (Kennedy gave his 'to the Moon' speech in 1962, first landing 1969), while we currently flail about trying to recreate it with a program lasting into the decades already. The SR-71 was another product of this era. | | |
| ▲ | driverdan 22 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | No one questions the technical achievements of the SR-71. It doesn't make any sense to try to resurrect them though. | |
| ▲ | fmajid 37 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | The US also had two superlative poles of engineering excellence, Kelly Johnson's Skunkworks and Hyman Rickover's nuclear submarines. They've been since replaced by bureaucrats without an ounce of talent. |
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| ▲ | eichin an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Back when the SR-71 was active, this magazine was nicknamed "Aviation Leak and Space Mythology" - them doing an article after the other rumours and Isaacman quotes reduces the credibility of the story, at least among Old Folk :-) | |
| ▲ | pbk111 35 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The guy interviewed is actually the gentleman that was in charge of destroying all the spare parts at the end of the SR-71 program So he knows what he is talking about and is well known. Old interview here:
https://youtu.be/mQse_XLxcWM?is=JASvQNI_bVn_bAr7 The remaining members of the quickly dwindling Blackbird community ( maintainers and flight crews) are very skeptical that it can be done but it does not mean that Isaacman is not trying. | |
| ▲ | dboreham 34 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The story is almost certainly a leak. The amateur hour reporting can be ignored. | |
| ▲ | ceejayoz 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > It sounds like a clown-show… Well, the President wants to redesign the Navy to look "cool" - battleships, carriers with steam catapults again and center islands. Why not the Air Force too? | | |
| ▲ | snypher an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | I wish this were the case; if it were for cool points the F-117 would be back! | | |
| ▲ | justin66 an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Little known fact (but not a secret): the F-117 is still flown today, even though they were "retired" in 2008. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZFwOGfhRZ8 I gather they serve mostly as aggressors and test aircraft - certainly one wouldn't fly that plane into combat. They were never ruinously expensive to operate. The SR-71 on the other hand... | |
| ▲ | walrus01 41 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | The F117 is in active use as a stand-in/simulator for opposing force semi-stealthy subsonic cruise missiles for radar range testing. People see them flying all the time. |
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| ▲ | Waterluvian 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | If you’re gonna have an Air Farce we’ll have to tariff you guys, eh? |
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| ▲ | imglorp an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Clown show is my guess too. There's no utility for it other than rattling windows and other airshow shenanigans for bragging press releases. There are faster (X-43 is mach 9.6 but unmanned) and higher and stealthier ships. But unless you're going to dip into the classified catalog, a rusty SR-71 is faster than the next fastest two ships which are both MiGs. |
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| ▲ | Computer0 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Reading the article, this does seem ill-advised. |
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| ▲ | sn0n an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Wtf is with that sites do not track!?!! It’s hidden behind an unstyled link to turn off extra trackers… |
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| ▲ | swader999 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It's for a new Pepsi promotion |
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| ▲ | gaigalas an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The new planes (F-35) were supposed to supersede interceptors like the SR-71 (that's their multirole goal). If it can't, this is an embarrassment. |
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| ▲ | flkiwi an hour ago | parent [-] | | What? The SR-71 was a strategic reconnaissance aircraft. It was not, and never was, an interceptor. And the F-35 was never tasked with replacing an interceptor, but is a slow-ish multirole aircraft with a heavy emphasis on strike capability. And the USAF hasn't had an "interceptor" in decades (single mission, short range, high speed, point defense aircraft). | | |
| ▲ | AnimalMuppet an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | There was a YF-12 interceptor prototype that was a variant of the SR-71 prototype (A-12). | |
| ▲ | gaigalas 37 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Makes sense, the SR-71 has never intersected with any interceptor program. And the F-35 is perfect for its role (whatever it is) which is very much relevant for the current theaters. There is no embarrassment whatsoever. |
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| ▲ | DivingForGold 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Bet Tom Cruise will be offering to allow him to use it for an upcoming movie thrilla |
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| ▲ | rbanffy 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I wouldn’t mind, as long as the plane flies again. It’s a true marvel of engineering. | | |
| ▲ | tclancy an hour ago | parent [-] | | Not a trick to make an old plane fly again. The trick is holding it together and landing it. I would imagine the problem they have with the 70 year olds they’re trying to recruit is that there are old pilots and bold pilots but well, you know the rest. |
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| ▲ | pdonis 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Top Gun: Blackbird? | | |
| ▲ | bitwize 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | More like Mission: Impossible. Replete with a mini-doco about how Tom Cruise literally for reals skydove out of the Blackbird without a chute and landed on the enemy rocket in one take. |
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