| ▲ | Autism mutations drive neurodevelopmental pathology(science.org) |
| 38 points by slantedview 2 hours ago | 25 comments |
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| ▲ | SubiculumCode 27 minutes ago | parent | next [-] |
| autism researcher here. I have not yet read this study. It will not be the kind of paper that many, including myself, can read quickly and understand. Autism is a multi-disciplined science, so there is a lot to understand. However, my initial sense from reading the abstract is that this paper might be a really really big deal and incredible new resource. General problem statement: Many different genetic variants are associated with autism, some strongly, most very weakly. Many have suspected that this plethora of genetic variants might converge onto a smaller set of biological pathways affecting neurodevelopment in ways that results in an autism phenotype or phenotypes. This has been our hope, because the alternative scares the hell out of a scientist. The saying goes that if you met one person with autism, you've met one person with autism...meaning there is a ton of heterogeneity within the autism spectrum, even if a certain set of core autism symptoms are displayed. So there was a existential crisis that there is no "autism", just a billion autisms, where your sample size is always N=1. By demonstrating evidence that many variants converge on the same biological pathways, there is hope that understanding autism is tractable. |
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| ▲ | roughly 16 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Out of curiosity, what leads us to treat ASD as an actual single disorder, as opposed to a billion different individual neurological profiles? I'd expect one of the things that makes this difficult, too, is that there's a missing component of the "machine" - the genetics affect the pathways, which affect (maybe?) things like signal propagation or network regulation in the brain, but the actual effect of that is on the patient's experience of consciousness, and it's difficult for someone to get more than N=1 of those via commonly accepted legal methods - otherwise, we're all just looking at the outside of the box and saying "huh, this box acts differently than that box, weird." | | |
| ▲ | SubiculumCode 3 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | A lot of the behaviors by which autism is diagnosed (social communication, repetitive behaviors and restricted interests) are fairly high-level behaviors, dependent on a lot of cognitive/neural machinery beneath it. There is an idea out there that convergent behaviors that allow consistent diagnosis depends on this, as the resulting behaviors might results from differences in many different underlying processes, but the result at the higher level can be measured the same. Analogy: Two programs can produce nearly identical behavior at the UI level, but be implemented very differently. Diagnosis operates partly at the "interface" level, but what happens underneath can differ greatly. | |
| ▲ | Alex3917 6 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | > what leads us to treat ASD as an actual single disorder, as opposed to a billion different individual neurological profiles? We already do treat it as the latter. The medical definition of autism is basically just any neurodevelopmental disorder that isn’t ADHD. |
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| ▲ | s1artibartfast a few seconds ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | When autism is discussed as a culmination of denovo mutations, one thing that I dont understand is how this is reconciled with the history of the species. It seems there is a high rate of mutations, making the non-mutant ensemble incredibly fragile. How did this work in the past? Was there significant selection against mutant varieties? | |
| ▲ | gignico 22 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | I thought the US government had just decided that the cause of autism was vaccines </sarcasm> | | |
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| ▲ | kayo_20211030 an hour ago | parent | prev [-] |
| I'm interested - for reasons. Does anyone have a sense of what this study means in a practical or actionable sense? In toto, the conclusion of the paper: > Together, these findings define a dual-layered model of molecular convergence in ASD: convergence through shared interaction networks in the wild-type state and convergence through recurrent functional consequences of interaction rewiring in the mutant state. More broadly, this work establishes a scalable framework for systematic interrogation of the autism proteome, enables prioritization of druggable protein interfaces, and provides a rational foundation for precision therapeutic strategies aimed at restoring neurodevelopmental trajectories. I have no grounding here. Does anyone want to have a go at teasing the meaning out? |
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| ▲ | randomImmigrant 14 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Here’s how I’m thinking about it (still digging into the details): across genomics, it’s become clear few traits have clear traceability to a few loci in the genome. Instead, evidence has been growing that epistasis, the nonlinear interaction between genes and other genomic regions, predominates in explanations of most phenotypes. What this paper does is show where upstream of the genome various combinations of mutations can interact to cause damage during development, thus leading to the phenotype. Rather than correcting a particular mutation, or targeting drugs to their protein products, we may find downstream protein-protein interactions that are strong drivers of the phenotype, and hopefully find ways to prevent/reverse these effects. | |
| ▲ | AndrewDucker 27 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Nothing yet. This is incredibly preliminary, with lots of this being tested in frogs. It hopefully gives hints which will be tested,better understood, and show actual mechanisms in humans. But probably not for years. | |
| ▲ | slantedview 30 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | There's a CNN article that has some expert quotes for context, but isn't quite as in depth as the study itself: https://archive.ph/yBiM8 | |
| ▲ | rickydroll 41 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | I interpret it as they think they can find treatments that will course-correct the development of a child, but they're not saying anything about fixing something that's already broken. | | |
| ▲ | Muromec 26 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I for once enjoy the glitches in my signal mixing module, don't want nothing to fix there. | | | |
| ▲ | forestrywat 21 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | What do you mean "broken"? Autistic folks are not broken. | | |
| ▲ | raducu 13 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Nobody said they were, but broken in terms of neurotypical circuitry, yes | |
| ▲ | djaro 9 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Autism is a disability. The function of the brain to normally process social cues is broken. In the same way someone who is blind has broken vision, someone in a wheelchair has broken legs, and someone with ADHD has broken executive function. This isnt a moral judgement, theres nothing wrong with being disabled, but it remaims a disability that many people struggle due to. |
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| ▲ | kelseyfrog 30 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Brave to say on one of the most autistic web forums that autistic people have something that's broken :| | | |
| ▲ | SubiculumCode 13 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Autism is a spectrum. Neurodiversity within and outside of autism is both intrinsically valuable and extrinsically valuable to society. However, not all phenotypes of autism should be viewed as neurodiversity, but as harmful. There is only so much that society can do to make severe intellectual impairments less disabling without identifying a cure for the intellectual impairment. The debate between medical versus disability models, neurodiversity versus pathology, inevitably gets pushed by those that want to classify everything into clean essentialist boxes, but that, I do not believe, is a helpful way to view the world. Not every condition is a pathology, nor is every condition benign if only society would do more to make it less disabling. | |
| ▲ | djaro 14 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I mean, it's classified as a disability for a good reason. I would guess that even if this platform has more autistic people due to being tech focused, autistic tech nerds and programmers are on the extreme end of high-functioning. Many low-functioning autistic people will never be able to have a job or live by themselves. This is the same issue as high-functioning ADHD'ers saying "ADHD is my superpower", meanwhile people with severe ADHD do significantly worse than the general population in basically any metric, up to having a lower life expectancy. This isnt to say its morally bad, theres nothing wrong with being autistic or having ADHD, but it is a disability. Just like someone who's deaf can live a totally happy life but still be disabled because they are not able to hear, someone with autism is disabled because they are not able to process social cues at the same speed, even if they are a great person and have a good life. | | |
| ▲ | forestrywat 8 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | "Have a disability" and "broken" are not synonyms. There's no judgement or moralizing in having a disability. Autism and ADHD like you mentioned are disabilities. But the people who have them are not broken. Having a disability means some part of your life is more difficult. But that's very very different from you as a person are broken. For example, if you can fix the environment and the person can now function equally to someone without a disability, then maybe it's the environment that's broken. If you can fix the social expectation and suddenly the person can function equally, then maybe the society is broken. Even if you cannot accommodate the person's needs, insinuating they are broken is not a great framing -- it creates a sense of pity rather than constructively looking at means to support them. | |
| ▲ | seanhandley 9 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It depends, and that’s the point. It’s such a wide concept. Essentially it boils down to how a brain processes sensory information and at what point it becomes overwhelmed. We all have tolerances set at different gauges. It’s a disability if it’s at odds with the environment a person finds themselves in. | |
| ▲ | iinnPP 3 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | The problem is assuming the social cues are important at this point in evolution. The people with a problem with it seem to be the ones with a disability. |
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| ▲ | krapp 21 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | This isn't /g/ what are you talking about? |
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