Sounds like a cheap way to get my hands on some floppies.

It's quite painful to resolve cognitive dissonance, so I understand the downvotes for your comment.

People are clever enough to reach high level corporate roles, but at the same time they're are too weak to emotionally process the consequences of their "work" on their human cash cows of below-average intelligence.

However with these kind of moral/ethical questions, it's really hard to draw the line.

Is working at Google and thereby facilitating the scamming of my grandmother worse than being an ordinary pickpocket or an lobbyist for big oil?

Well, sounds like you have a rather weird definition of accountability. You do you.

This doesn't excuse a message that literally reads like call to action.

I would bet that what Motorola can change without trouble on the lower end is more restricted, too. Generally low end models use more parts that are old, off the shelf, and/or shared with several other models to keep costs low, and so major changes can quickly balloon costs.

The Flip and Fold are. I see them available on the Motorola US store page.

Graphene passes basic integrity, so most of them work. There is a list here:

https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa...

Porting traditional Linux desktop distributions to Android devices is meaningless, all you get is more instability, more unsafe and more trouble. Waydroid is a bad implementation on security and compatibility, just running Android in VM is better.

> What's stopping me from using a browser to log in to my bank?

The "security module" they require you to install on your computer. In the past, when browsers had plugins, this was a browser plugin; nowadays, it's an always-on service (running as root) which exposes a local HTTP server which the bank site connects to to validate your computer. For an example from a major bank in this country (the same "security module" is used by several banks in this country), https://seg.bb.com.br/home.html is the diagnostic page for that "security module" (the FAQ page there has links to the installers).

Nothing is stopping you. You're free to use a desktop web app that either doesn't work or is terribly slow or has limited features on a mobile web browser. I'd love it if all apps were PWAs but that is not the case.

I had to replace a credit card yesterday. Part of the default flow involves the call center sending a notification to your app. When I told them my android version was too old, it took them twenty minutes to find out they could instead send a text message. That text message sends you to a photo-and-id verification service, but that's another issue.

Soon, there won't even be an alternative flow. There are a lot of places where there already isn't.

The websites don't have feature parity with the apps these days. Things like being able to deposit a cheque aren't available among other things.

Some banks are app only and/or build MFA functionality into their apps.

Well, it's kinda hard to scan a QR code displayed on your screen when the camera is attached to its back (semi-joking)

The 2FA code you need to get from the phone app to log in on a desktop. It isn't 2005 any more.

The bank website typically needs the app to enable two factor authentication in a lot of places.

For eg. There's no browser based alternative to make UPI payments that i know of.

In many countries, all major local banks require their phone app as the second factor to log in to the browser version of their online banking. Sometimes functionality is removed from the browser version and made available only in the phone app.

The bank itself. They want to see where are you, what you do and snoop on anything they can about you. Having a spywa^W sorry, bank app is the best way to do that.

Source: my bank which recently 'upgraded' a browser version to a glorified SPA which even renders as a vertical oriented app on a landscape 4K monitor.

Not true, if you install play services you can run 99.9% of apps, i can even run all the italian apps from yhe goverment. You are still using google but its running as user service and you can even revoke most of the permissions including location.

Running their sandboxed Play, I can run everything. The only thing I notice in the US is some banking apps (stupidly, idiotically, moronically) force 2FA on every login instead of trusting biometric entirely like they do on stock OS.

I wonder if practices will change any of there's ever a device that ships with GOS. Right now, many companies are happy to shrug off GOS, because they don't support "modified devices".

If any of the Motorola devices have GOS as a pre-installed option, now the companies don't have the excuse that the device is modified.

I'm guessing the companies will continue to be difficult, but it'll be amusing to watch, at least.

What is the point of apps for these things in particular? I understand that some banks require an app for 2FA, but I don't see why anyone would want some invasive healthcare app on their phone.

Yep. Had to change banks because of my old one suddenly dropping grapheme support by adding stupid attestation mechanics.

They surely must have gotten feedback from me and others because the next update it worked again. But I and probably others where already a lost customer.

Stop parroting this. It’s not true.

Diminishingly few apps do not work, and it’s down to them.

What a colossal disaster. I was a huge Windows Phone fan, so their yearly missteps were quite painful to watch. I was especially annoyed when my first gen WP wasn't going to get an upgrade to WP8. My HTC 7 Pro is still my favourite phone I've ever owned, but after that I finally gave up and switched to Android.

A lot of "non Android Linux distributions" like sailfish os actually use a lot of Android infrastructure to keep working.

Drivers doesn't just mean the kernel. It's the user space binary blobs and services that need to talk to the kernel to enable the hardware.

Other than that there's waydroid, alien dalvik etc.. that run another Android instance in a container.

The thing is a lot of Android applications use safety net/other methods to make sure they only run on. "Approved"/stock hardware.

This is exactly where my head goes. There's nothing special about this hardware other than its small form factor. Sure, some desktop apps would likely want a different skin, but thats hardly limiting.

You can't because a lot of apps check that the phone is controlled by Google with Play Integrity.

Google thought about this, don't worry. They learned their lesson after CyanogenMod tried to compete by offering an alternative. Non-Google Android are now dead except in China.

I miss my Windows Phone...

It doesn't. There was a plan, but Microsoft abandoned it.

> you can't compel someone to support your niche platform

You mean, a browser?

Yes, but that is still very confusing to me, because you're not paying other people money so that they just follow incentives without thinking, vision or backbone.

The whole idea of buying something is giving people money for their (assumed correct) judgement, which then leads to desired artifacts downstream.

Plus the Samsung Exynos modems that they were using from Pixel 6-10 (11 switched to Mediatek) had worse power efficiency and performance vs Qualcomm.

So...what's your comment? Opposing Motorola's comment, in that they already buy the best? Supporting, in that their standards haven't dropped?

Except that it's all Android?

I'm not selecting which phone I buy on whether the stock OS comes with lockscreen shortcuts. At best, a software requirement someone might use as a deciding factor is OS support and bootloader unlock. The real differences are in hardware: size, battery life, chipset speed, RAM or other local model enablers, picture quality (this part also depends on good software to be fair), included accessories, satellite connectivity hardware, headphone jack, gimmicks like UWB or FM radio support, whether it's a flip/fold phone, storage space / sdcard support... all hardware differences

I can tell you from first-hand experience that it is true already (Well, it's true for the specific exploit/device pairings I've tried, I've not tried to construct an omni-exploit)

Completely random public example: https://github.com/BuSung-dev/Root-My-Galaxy-Payloads/pull/1... (where GLM 5.2 is credited with the port) (Check out the other PRs in that repo for other similar examples)

If a state actor wants to pwn your phone, they don't need to orchestrate a complex inter-organizational conspiracy to get there.

It would be funny if it actually was intentionally selected, but for DES-like instead of Dual EC reasons, and they're just too embarrassed by Dual EC to admit it.

Hitler ate sugar so I don't.

>Of course they'll say they couldn't read it if they are after his contacts and network rather than after him.

From what a friend working in a state police cyber crime office says, "Cellebrite can't currently, unless its a Graphene OS user that's far behind on updates"

They also said iOS is equally safe unless you're an update or two behind.

> I ran Graphene without a Sim card for 2 months and as soon as I added a Sim card (with of course, difficult to vet networking) the phone is always hot and the battery life reduced by half. Might be a coincidence but also made me rethink how I feel about Graphene

Strange you're being flagged since it's easy to find many other people on the graphene forums reporting the same (unresolved) problem.

Doesn't mean it's guaranteed to be limited to graphene in scope, but definitely seems to be a prevalent issue for some yet-to-be-determined reason.

Possibly related, does anybody know if graphene is vulnerable to Pegasus?

My 9a running GrapheneOS doesn't get hot and battery life seems no different to other phones I've had the last few years.

That happened to my pixel running stock android and it was the 5G. As soon as I disabled it the battery lasted longer and the phone was way cooler. After all, I'm totally fine with LTE speeds

What Pixel do you have? Modem quality varies and signal strength could play a role. My 9a gets hot in areas with poor reception but is fine at work where I get over a gigabit down.

How many apps have network permission? Did you install anything from the play store at all? As a rule of thumb, the play store and everything on it is spyware.

I had the opposite experience. I was pleasantly surprised by the battery life you can get when your phone isn't full of shitware apps and even when you do install shitware, the OS helps you confine it.

You can ask on the forum for troubleshooting. Pixels just have bad performance unfortunately.

https://discuss.grapheneos.org

Did you check the forums or research for any benign reason that could happen? I've run Graphene on Pixel 9 and 10 and never had such battery issues.