| ▲ | danpalmer 4 hours ago |
| Why? Banning abuse is fine, and disliking Cryptocurrency projects at a moral level is fine, but running a coffee hosting service and putting your moral judgements on projects like this just seems childish and unserious. I'm also apparently banned from reading the article, despite having no previous usage of Codeberg or any history with the project, so I can't even see their reasoning. |
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| ▲ | jjmarr 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| In the words of the person who announced the ban, when moderating a discussion on it 8 months prior:[1] > > Dear Codeberg, please push out and ban these political fighters. > This is not a neutral space, Codeberg is political. If you disagree with someone, be constructive and don't call them merely political and think that's a reason for the discussion to stop. the maintainers of Codeberg do not believe that they are a "coffee hosting service" that neutrally hosts code from a variety of perspectives. Their view is that hosting code is a political act and this is backed by the donations funding Codeberg's operation. [1] https://codeberg.org/Codeberg/Community/issues/2184#issuecom... |
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| ▲ | duxup 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | How do you know what the politics will be next? They banned vibe coded projects too… goodness knows how they think they can determine / enforce that. | | |
| ▲ | tkel an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Well, if you're not part of the community, what do you care? Are you saying you are opposed to this on the grounds that anything could happen in the future? That doesn't really make sense. Yes, anything could happen. Yes, people change. That is true in nearly all contexts. If you're asking in good faith, you participate in the community democratically and try to influence others. Just like normal. There was a vote held for this decision, it was 306-154. | |
| ▲ | matheusmoreira 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > goodness knows how they think they can determine that Asking people to define that nearly got me kicked out of lobsters. These people don't want to have to define it. Ironically, they're going to enforce their rules based on vibes. Vibewritten rules, vibenforced. | |
| ▲ | tbrownaw 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > How do you know what the politics will be next? That's the neat part, you don't. (Or, well, you could pay attention to the individual humans involved?) |
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| ▲ | Forgeties79 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Honestly I respect it | | |
| ▲ | gruez 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I can't. What happened to pluralism? | | |
| ▲ | jrflowers 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Pluralism is when strangers are forced to host my code for free. The idea of somebody else putting their time and money into something and then not giving it to me is philosophically worrisome | |
| ▲ | 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | altmanaltman 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The whole "codeberg is political" is the scary bit. Whose politics? How is it decided by members what exact politics to represent? Do some members have undue influence on exerting their particular politics? Sure ban Cryptocurrency projects whatever, its your platform. But calling a code hosting service "political" and acting like its the Galatic Senate is just wrong priorities. It is hard to take something serious like that if they just say "hey we are political whether you like it or not" without spending susbtantial amount of time ensuring its clean, transparent and good politics not a bunch of sith lords jerking each other off. | | |
| ▲ | pretendgeneer 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I think you're misunderstanding "codeberg is political". Everything is political, FOSS is political, GitHub is also political. When people say "We're not political", or "That's not political". What they're actually saying is that it's within my own politics. | | |
| ▲ | tbrownaw 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | No, there's a big difference between "net effects are not guaranteed to be perfectly neutral" and "I am going to intentionally put my thumb on the scale". The position that everything is political so therefore opinions are mandatory intentionally conflates these things. | | |
| ▲ | Forgeties79 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | You’re the one who seems to be conflating things - everything is political =/= opinions are mandatory. | | |
| ▲ | tbrownaw 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | The comment I was replying to said > When people say "We're not political", or "That's not political". What they're actually saying is that it's within my own politics. That assertion is incorrect. Said incorrect assertion is derived from the conflation I called out. |
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| ▲ | causalmodels 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | My issue with this is not that codeberg and its members want to uphold a certain set of political beliefs. Any private organization is free to do that. It's that they haven't defined the rule that's supposed to encode those beliefs. As written, the rule is a non-exhaustive example of "content that harms codeberg's reputation". Someone asked in the pr whether "cryptocurrency-related" is defined anywhere and it merged without an answer. The responses to wording concerns was essentially they will figure it out later. Moves like this don't fill me with confidence. | | |
| ▲ | tkel an hour ago | parent [-] | | You're still not understanding the point. It's not about an organization being "private" or "public" (what does "private" even mean?). Everything is political. When you try and cleave society into things that are and aren't political, what you are doing is creating a normative set of things that aren't allowed to be challenged, on the basis of your claim that they aren't political, obscuring/obfuscating their actual underlying politics, and everything else is pushed outside of it. It is an attempt to create strict boundaries around the limits of discussion and action, which is itself a political act! | | |
| ▲ | fluoridation 33 minutes ago | parent [-] | | >When you try and cleave society into things that are and aren't political, what you are doing is creating a normative set of things that aren't allowed to be challenged, on the basis of your claim that they aren't political What are you talking about? Whether something is allowed to be challenged has nothing to do with whether it's political. Actually, what even is not allowed to be challenged? I struggle to come up with a single example. |
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| ▲ | 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | bigstrat2003 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | No dude. Most things are not, in fact, political. When I enjoy a meal, that isn't political. When I hang out with my family and friends, that isn't political. When I sit down to read a nice book with a cup of cocoa, that isn't political. The notion that "everything is political" is an indicator that someone has an extremely toxic relationship with politics. Basically you're projecting your unhealthy level of political engagement onto everyone else, and insisting that we all have that manner of thinking (but are just denying it to score political points). Well that isn't true, and for your own sake I encourage you to stop that. You'll be much happier when you stop making life about politics. | | |
| ▲ | wolvesechoes an hour ago | parent [-] | | But the moment you step into social realm it becomes political, as Mr. Aristotle said. | | |
| ▲ | fluoridation 38 minutes ago | parent [-] | | What do you mean? If I talk to a friend about stargazing that's political? If a group of people meet up to play a game of cards that's political? |
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| ▲ | altmanaltman 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | No I understand that. But the point I am making is saying that is much stronger than saying "our policy says we won't host crypto projects going forward". The latter is fine, any service provider can set terms as they fit within the law. But if you claim you are highly political, you must invite further questions into it. How does Codeberg handle the diverse mix of politics within it and manage its influences? If we give the organization a character by calling it political, we create an obligation to explain further. Overall, again I feel this is a self-own to project idealogue this hard since you flavor it in a specific way that is not inclusive. | | |
| ▲ | overfeed 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > How does Codeberg handle the diverse mix of politics within it and manage its influence They don't have to. > Overall, again I feel this is a self-own to project idealogue this hard since you flavor it in a specific way that is not inclusive. D.E.I. is out right now. Fortunately, Codeberg helpfully funds Forgejo, so all the non-eligible projects can benefit from self-hosting. |
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| ▲ | jjmarr 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It's the politics of the paid membership of the Codeberg non-profit that funds the whole operation. They vote in yearly meetings. | | |
| ▲ | altmanaltman 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I don't understand how the two are related, though. Voting yearly as a community does not make things "political" if the issues are not politically challenged themselves. For example, if a group of people get together and decide "hey we want to watch 10 movies this year" that in itself is not a political action. It's a governance action. But if they say, "Hey, let's watch these 10 movies but not watch 1 because we all think it is wrong to capitalize on bananas," that is a political action. In the first one, your individual politics do not matter for consensus but in the second one, it does and as a whole you need to take a stance on a subjective political matter as an organization. And if you take a stance as an organization, you must also accept the consequences of not being impartial which they don't seem to do. "It is political but the details of how/why/what votes are decided, how we think of politics, how it influences our worldwide, our basic ethical code etc are all unknown. BUT IT IS POLITICAL so buzz off." is not a good stance in my opinion, especially for a version control tool. |
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| ▲ | mbac32768 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| GitHub is the worst place to host your code. Except for all of the other places. |
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| ▲ | DaSHacka 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Well, GitHub seems unlikely to randomly ban your project if it fits within an entire category of services some admin arbitrarily decided they don't like. I know which one I'll be sticking with. | |
| ▲ | matheusmoreira 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yeah. Looks like it's either GitHub or self-hosted from now on. At least GitHub has a Sponsors thing. Not that I'm getting much out of it. | |
| ▲ | hackermanai 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | So it seems. | |
| ▲ | OtomotO 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | My self hosted gitforge disagrees. | |
| ▲ | gmerc 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Evidence disagrees. |
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| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > Why? The impetus makes sense. Crypto is a hive of scams. It makes sense for honest people to want safeguards between their names and those folks. The problem is this seems to have been implemented with zero attention to detail. |
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| ▲ | danpalmer 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | It's the lack of attention to detail that bugs me. It's just bad policy making. Writing good policies that encourage the right behaviour and discourage the wrong behaviour, policies that promote a good culture, are HARD. Saying "no crypto" has a wide range of impact, from pushing away crypto projects, to pushing away businesses who see it as an overreach, to pushing away free speech advocates. |
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| ▲ | lopatin 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I guess that brings up the question of why do people use Codeberg in the first place. From what I understand, it's a decision based on values right rather than cost, functionality, or convenience. Well here you go, more values, enjoy! |
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| ▲ | matheusmoreira 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I used it for a while because I write free software and Codeberg was aligned with that. I went back to GitHub because I couldn't get their CIs to work. Now that they banned "heavy LLM usage" I won't be going back there I guess. |
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| ▲ | TZubiri 27 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| What's a coffee hosting service? |
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| ▲ | hackinthebochs 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I'm also banned from the site for some reason despite never having been there before. Though I suspect my IP is on someone's naughty list for some reason seeing as I get far more captchas on the internet than I feel I should be getting. |
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| ▲ | avaer 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| [flagged] |
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| ▲ | weakened_malloc 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| They also want to ban 'AI slop' - I'd love to see how they draw the lines on that one. |
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| ▲ | firloop 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | cute_boi 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | And it’s easy to detect slop that sucks up infrastructure resources just by looking at commit rates. For example, Peter Steinberger made 271,281 commits. No wonder GitHub goes down regularly because of the increase in slop activity. | |
| ▲ | nighteous 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | burnt-resistor 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Policing what can and can't be hosted is the opposite of freedom, it's tyranny. |
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| ▲ | danielheath 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Equating someone not wanting you on their website with tyranny sure is a take. You’re welcome to host it at your own venue. Or , I guess, to keep whining that you’re not being given free services by someone who dislikes your work. |
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| ▲ | vitalyan8184 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| because it's a code hosting equivalent of all those Mastodons with 50 users. >Codeberg is a non-profit, community-led effort in the current year, that's a massive red flag. |