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pizlonator 3 hours ago

What I can’t get over is that there have been exactly zero software breakthroughs since vibe coding started, other than vibe coding itself.

Claude is amazing, that’s true.

But if it was as amazing as this article implies, I’d expect some breakthrough outside of AI itself.

Rewriting a Zig program in unsafe Rust? Not a breakthrough. Finding a bunch of security vulns? Maybe that’s sort of a breakthrough though it’s underwhelming and possibly just a net negative. But like if I rolled back to using software from 2023 then life would be ok.

Maybe we just need to give it time, and sometime real soon, we will all be amazed by such a breakthrough? Who knows

spprashant an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Its in a weird space right now.

These models are actually extremely good but they are far from an intelligence unto themselves. Truth is if someone told you they could build these things 5 years ago, you d write them a check for a trillion dollars. Problem is once we got them, we realized they are not all that. Its like a mecha suit in a universe, where mecha suits are abundant and cheap. Someone has to climb into them everyday and put in the work for it to be effective.

So now the skeptics are saying this technology is overrated. And the optimists are accusing the skeptics of moving goal posts.

cautiouscat 24 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> Problem is once we got them, we realized they are not all that.

Isn't this just the hype cycle? [1]

Fake edit: I know its not a perfect model.

1: https://www.gartner.com/en/research/methodologies/gartner-hy...

4ffss 42 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

I think we are learning in real-time what intelligence re. humans is as we go along.

Humans only what they know, until they acquire more information about what's possible.

The goal post narrative is stupid to begin with.

sothatsit an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Maybe my bar for what constitutes a breakthrough is lower than other people's, but all of these seem like breakthroughs to me:

NLP as a field saw huge shifts. NLP tasks that used to be complex and inaccurate can now be setup very easily and quickly using structured outputs from LLMs, often with greater accuracy.

A small charity I help with has now been able to build their own website to manage their day-to-day operations. It saves them a lot of time, and it was vibe-coded using Manus. I don't think people appreciate how much room there is left for bespoke software to have big impacts on small organisations that can't afford to hire developers. The cost for software like the one they made has gone from 10s of thousands of dollars to $10/month and volunteer hours.

My brother has recently been setting up Cowork to do an automatic review of contracts before human review, and he said it is far more diligent than people when it comes to routine things to check. This is another huge breakthrough for not just efficiency, but the quality of work.

I really don't think we can discount AI finding bugs and vulnerabilities. If you care about code quality and keep up review standard, LLMs can help you write more robust software. AI has found a huge number of bugs for me before they hit production, including potential out-of-bounds memory accesses and segfaults.

ChatGPT has 1 billion MAU. People are now getting life advice, financial advice, and mental health help from chatbots at a scale and cost that no human support network could match.

sutterd 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I am doing a solo project that is pretty big, meaning it is not something I could vibe code. I can do alot with AI that I could never do on my own, but I am not seeing several mulitples improvement in my productivity. I spend so much time doing what I call "AI wrangling", trying to get it to do what I want. Claude is writing all the javscript and python code, but ultimately I am programming in English. What is good is that it is effectively a very high level computer language, where the agent can implement a lot of underlying code with a short English description, often. But many other times it takes a lot of work to get what you want.

onlyrealcuzzo 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I'm building a memory safe programming language with a declarative concurrency model that's close to release.

There is ZERO chance I would ever be able to complete it on my own.

I doubt it'll get traction, but if it doesn't, I am pretty confident a future language will take the ideas for polymorphic synchronization and profile-guided optimization.

It has an easy version/mode of compilation that makes Rust's affine ownership accessible like a high-level scripting language, and it can progressively become more strict, where the compiler does ~99% of the work for you, and you just pick options as it finds issues (that it explains to you like you're 5) along the way.

Along the way, I also built a suite of tools that helps identify complexity better than anything I've seen (which was necessary to get the LLMs to be able to unslop themselves and write something that actually works).

I doubt the Ruby community shrugs it off, but time will tell.

pizlonator 17 minutes ago | parent [-]

How do you know it’s actually memory safe?

matheusmoreira 33 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I measured an ~8x increase in the number of commits I've been pushing, and I've actually been trying to restrain myself. I could do a lot more if I stopped reviewing and editing the code. I think it's got more to do with my executive ability than raw productivity though. AI essentially cured my ADHD by making the execution of my ideas virtually painless.

mohamedkoubaa 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I have the same experience, though I feel myself getting better at wrangling over the past few months

drtz 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Maybe I'm looking through rose colored glasses, but software that writes itself seems like a pretty big breakthrough to me.

pizlonator 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That goes straight to my point: then why hasn’t the miracle of automated coding led to breakthroughs outside of automated coding?

If the only breakthrough is automated coding with no outside consequence then it’s just masturbation

brokencode 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Probably because AI coding has only worked at all for a couple years and has only gotten good in like the last year?

The rate of improvement has been fast. Maybe it’ll plateau soon, or maybe we’ll have LLMs improving themselves rapidly. At this point it’s too early to say.

I don’t remember where I heard it, but there’s a saying that people overestimate how much can be accomplished in a year and underestimate how much can be accomplished in 10 years.

If we get to 2030 and still people are wondering where the breakthrough is, then I think I’d be agreeing with your skepticism. But I just think it’s too early to judge that yet.

pizlonator 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Yeah, this is a good point.

But the clock is ticking.

Quarrelsome 2 hours ago | parent [-]

on what? Who the fuck would go full transparency of what's in their black box in this hostile culture of AI hatred? None of us can put a number on what code we've used in our services that was written by humans and long may it last.

AussieWog93 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

N=1, but Claude etc. have made a huge difference to my life personally.

Built a bunch of software tools to streamline my small ecommerce business - while also running it - and things have turned around from "losing money and ready to pull the plug" to "looking at our best financial year on record" in the span of about 8 months.

I could imagine it wouldn't make a huge difference to the life of someone deeply entrenched in a traditional tech role, trying to get an extra 9 of reliability in a service or roll out a new carefully planned and QA'd feature.

But for tech-adjacent people, it gives us something "good enough", instantly, and basically for free.

That doesn't include the other things I've got it to do (gave Claude SSH access and got it to successfully debug a hang on my Ubuntu server, chucked Codex in a folder full of financial data and got it to find every piece of misclassified payroll transaction data)

Genuinely the biggest breakthrough for "casual" tech users since Excel.

bombcar a minute ago | parent [-]

The joke used to be “be nice or I’ll replace you with a small shell script” - Claude lets you actually get those scripts written which often aren’t replacing anyone but are automating away part of the daily hassles.

therealdrag0 19 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

What is your bar even? automated coding has changed the game already.

fdsajfkldsfklds 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Strictly speaking, it's modifying itself. Although it would be an interesting challenge - can an llm create a new llm from scratch?

arm32 2 hours ago | parent [-]

No, it probably can't during our lifetime at least—but it can sure modify itself to avoid antivirus detection, which is _just swell_.

brazukadev 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Which is funny because people have been using LISP for that since 1960.

wild_egg an hour ago | parent [-]

Which is what makes putting an LLM inside a lisp so much fun

maplethorpe 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It's pretty crazy that a company like Anthropic no longer needs to hire Software Engineers, because their software engineers itself. If that's not a break through I don't know what is!

edit: it looks like I was wrong and they're still hiring many software engineers. Not completely sure why that is just yet.

signatoremo 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The arguments against AI assisted coding used to be "only for toy projects", then at some point it became "no dignity", "joyless". Now it's "no new breakthrough" apparently. All in the span of maybe a year. I say it's made tremendous progress.

pizlonator 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Then where is the big new non toy project created since vibe coding became a thing, that couldn’t have been created without ai?

flavio87 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

don’t know if this qualifies as big in your book, but there are some well marketed advances here:

https://deepmind.google/blog/alphaevolve-impact/

straydusk an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Openclaw

conception 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I make one (small) almost every day. Admittedly the reason that couldn’t be done is because it would take time that I don’t have but 1000% every day something is written by AI that I use that would not exist if AI didn’t exist.

I don’t publish them - but they’re put into use in production and they provide a tangible benefit that would not exist otherwise.

pizlonator 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I do this too.

I especially love how making a nicely styled website these days is a matter of describing what it looks like and waiting 10-15 minutes. There are other examples

But the OP is claiming 10x productivity improvements along some metrics. If that was even slightly true under even a generous interpretation of what it might mean, I’d expect an actual breakthrough, not the ability to churn out little things

fatata123 an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

squidsoup 44 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The breakthroughs in mass state surveillance are coming, never fear.

defen 15 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Vibe coding is the breakthrough. There's always been "no-code" solutions to problems in various business domains, but they were invariably janky, underpowered, and/or overpriced. Now we have a way for domain experts to go directly from ACTUAL natural language directly to implementation in a real programming language, fully automated, in minutes or hours. How is that not a science-fiction level breakthrough? In 2011 if anyone had said that would be possible "in 15 years", I think most professionals at the time would not have replied with "yeah it's coming but your timeline is off". It would have been "you have no fucking idea what you're talking about".

wild_egg 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What does a breakthrough look like?

pizlonator 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Some examples:

- The first web browser

- the first web browser with images

- typescript

- react

- rust

- Fil-C

- doom

- quake

- the anamorphic VM, and its follow-ups like HotSpot, and even competitors/copycats like J9, V8, JSC, etc

- Fortnite battle royale

- Roblox

- thefacebook

- ChatGPT

- Claude code

I know that’s quite a range and that’s intentional.

Anyway, I think we’ll know it when we see it.

HardCodedBias 2 hours ago | parent [-]

The LLM+Harness mostly helps with execution.

These are new products (generally) and that's a different class of problem.

It is possible that since LLM+harness helps with execution then we should see more experiments.

luke5441 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Even then we should be able to see things that previously were not possible because they took too much effort.

For example NPCs in games that have complexity that previously was not possible.

Good games often push the boundaries a bit, so should be a good example.

Of course now we can start arguing that there isn't a lot of investment into gaming currently, because it all goes into AI. Too bad.

adgjlsfhk1 2 hours ago | parent [-]

we're still at least 3 years too early for that. games usually are in a 5+ year dev cycle, so even if AI made gamedev 2x faster, we're still not at the point where the first opus 4.5 games are out

joshuamcginnis 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Massive productivity gains.

pizlonator 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Yeah.

To play devils advocate, computers didn’t translate to massive productivity gains until long after businesses adopted them. There was that quote from ’87: "you can see the computer age everywhere but in the productivity statistics"

Maybe we’re seeing something like that right now with AI?

Who knows man

bdamm 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This is absolutely the right vision imo.

Personally, I'm seeing massive improvements to my workflow and the quality of the product I'm shipping. I'm using AI to crank out far more tests than I used to be able to write, and I am using AI to analyze results with far more fidelity and speed than I could ever have done myself. That means I have more quality time.

But this will change, because the meaning of software development will change to expect, nay to require AI use. I've heard this is already happening at e.g. Google. The expectation of what can be achieved by tinkerers and by professionals will change. The expectation of what it means to interact with software via your own agents will change and will become commonplace. Apple still hasn't figured out the local agent on the iPhone, but they will. 2027 is not going to feel at all like 2025.

But is any of that a fundamental change? It sure feels fundamental to me, but maybe that's because my everyday has totally changed, but the product I am responsible for has not. Yet. The product I am responsible for operates in critical infrastructure where I personally hope AI never has deep roots, but maybe that's just me. I don't think using AI to build a system that is offline from any AI is the same as depending on an AI to make realtime decisions for critical infrastructure.

4ffss an hour ago | parent [-]

"That means I have more quality time."

For now... the shareholders demand managers get the max out of every employee. Throw the force of competition etc into the mix and yeah labour isn't going to benefit all that much.

4ffss an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Efficiency and productivity in relation to final goods measured in GDP aren't the same thing.

Its yet to be determined just how 'efficient' people are with LLM's as its not really a one-person thing - the true measure is based on an entire collection of people's output.

Startups being rapidly efficient doesn't mean much in relation to the overall economy.

yoyohello13 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

How about a Windows file browser that opens in less than 5 seconds.

wild_egg 2 hours ago | parent [-]

FilePilot has been a thing for a while now

fooker an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What does a software breakthrough look like in your opinion?

If you get yourself to define it, maybe you'll find it achievable :)

revlsas 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

openAI has how many employees and the chatGPT app has 1 billion MAU