| ▲ | hansmayer 3 hours ago |
| > Anthropic are strongly rumored to be about to have their first profitable quarter No, its more like their own leak to WSJ and according to Ed Zitron -> seems to be heavily engineered via non-GAAP practices such as counting potential, but not realised revenue as actual revenue - the stuff for which I would be arrested if I did it at my company. Also it appears according to Ed's analysis - strangely they seem to be projecting only that one quarter as profitable - potentially to calm the investors ahead of the IPO. Investor fraud anyone? |
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| ▲ | cootsnuck 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Also it was but a few months ago that their CFO said, in a court filing, that Anthropic's revenue across the entire lifetime of the company "exceeds $5 billion". Pretty strange. https://www.reuters.com/commentary/breakingviews/anthropic-g... |
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| ▲ | jonas21 an hour ago | parent [-] | | How is it strange? The "exceeds $5B" quote was from December 2025. Anthropic has seen tremendous growth since then, ever since Claude Code with Opus 4.5 got really good at coding. If you've ever been at a startup, this is exactly what it looks like when you go from not having product-market fit to having it (though with a few extra zeros on the end compared to most). | | |
| ▲ | hansmayer an hour ago | parent [-] | | Ah yes, December 2025...such a long, long time ago... | | |
| ▲ | enraged_camel an hour ago | parent [-] | | Your comment is not a serious one. Their revenue has quadrupled in just a few months. So yes, December 2025 is a long time ago now. | | |
| ▲ | hansmayer an hour ago | parent [-] | | > Their revenue has quadrupled in just a few months Maybe, maybe not. We haven't seen that S-1 yet. All we have is the 5B in lifetime so far. PLUS - revenue quadrupled or not, it only matters if their costs did not expand at the same rate or more. Revenue is not profit. | | |
| ▲ | aspenmartin 42 minutes ago | parent [-] | | OK, so when S-1 comes out you will finally allow yourself to be wrong? Your prior is, a 1T company plans to IPO and their leader has been loudly committing an insane amount of fraud? I mean this of course is possible but that is quite the conspiracy. The scrutiny of an IPO would be a crazy thing to do if you were committing fraud at the scale you're suggesting. Revenue is not profit yet the discussion in this particular thread is about revenue. | | |
| ▲ | hansmayer 27 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > 1T company plans to IPO and their leader has been loudly committing an insane amount of fraud? Ever heard of Enron, Theranos, SBX ? They were all hiding in plain sight - who could've thought they were frauds? | | |
| ▲ | aspenmartin 18 minutes ago | parent [-] | | That’s why I said it’s possible but it’s a very improbable and weird prior assumption to make |
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| ▲ | supern0va 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| >according to Ed Zitron So, unsourced vibes from a shady guy whose entire empire is built on being against AI? I genuinely don't know how folks can continuously buy into anything he has to say after that Wired piece. The credibility there is seriously lacking. Please, continue to be skeptical of the labs. But people need to stop talking about this dude as if he's the Holy Grail of the anti-AI movement. It's going to blow up in y'alls faces. |
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| ▲ | hansmayer 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > So, unsourced vibes from a shady guy whose entire empire is built on being against AI? Actually he provides sources when he analyses stuff and imho much better than the usual corporate "Sam Altman says we should ask ChatGPT how to raise babies" crap. Also, I don't know many 'shady' guys who have built entire "empires", nor does he seem to actually have an empire. Usually being shady means you are kind of unknown and all. I am not glorifying Ed, don't even know him personally. I am not even impressed with his writing style much to be honest. But he brings important facts and information to light, which otherwise would have been lost in the cacophony of corporate media light treatment of these con-men. Holy Grail? Blowing up in our faces? WTF are you talking about? | | |
| ▲ | supern0va an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | >Actually he provides sources when he analyses stuff and imho much better than the usual corporate You said it was likely an internal leak to the WSJ "according to Ed Zitron". Did Ed have a source for that, or was it just vibes? | | |
| ▲ | hansmayer an hour ago | parent [-] | | The source was the article in the WSJ itself, which then referred to their source at the Anthropic. Which kind of is a textbook definition of "leak". Because otherwise Anthropic would have their lawyers hunting both the employee breaking their stringent NDA and the WSJ as well... | | |
| ▲ | supern0va an hour ago | parent [-] | | Fair enough, but I have to admit I'm puzzled about why you felt the need to then attribute it to Zitron? | | |
| ▲ | hansmayer 39 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Why puzzled ? I literally said "According to Ed Zitron", implying that's where I stumbled upon the article. I've no time to read corporate media, at least not regularly. | | |
| ▲ | supern0va 36 minutes ago | parent [-] | | >more like their own leak to WSJ and according to Ed Zitron ^ Apologies, the above read to me like you were saying that Ed himself was claiming that Anthropic leaked to the WSJ. |
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| ▲ | aspenmartin 39 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | surgical_fire 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Also, if I understand correctly, they are rumored to have a profitable EBITDA. It's a funny metric considering Depreciation is a huge cost for them. "We are profitable when we don't count our expenses" |
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| ▲ | skybrian 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | There's a good reason to look at it separately: if inference is profitable then they make money (or at least lose less money) when they get more customers, because any fixed costs are spread across more usage. | | |
| ▲ | surgical_fire an hour ago | parent [-] | | Depreciation is part of the cost of inference. Inference happens in GPUs that have a relatively short lifespan. Those GPUs are very expensive. Inference is expensive because a GPU can only process a certain amount of requests in a given timeframe. Remember that Anthropic is constrained in compute. If they are constrained, it means that those GPUs are not idle. If they have more customers, they will need more GPUs. If they have to play silly games using EBITDA to be "profitable", then it means that they need to ramp up prices a lot more than they already did. Which is why in these discussions I always say that inference is also extremely expensive. Too many people like to pretend without any evidence that inference is cheap. | | |
| ▲ | skybrian 6 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Anthropic and OpenAI don't own data centers. Since they're renting GPU's, that's not depreciation. Paying rent is an operating cost. Language models don't wear out the same way; upgrading is a choice. |
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| ▲ | pier25 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Yeah I'll believe it when I see it. Revenue is increasing but so are their costs. Back in 2024 their CEO claimed training costs would rise to $10-100B in the next years. https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/artificial-intell... |
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| ▲ | hansmayer 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Their CEO claims a lot of wild shit. He claimed in January this year, that in about 2-3 weeks from this moment, i.e. "in 6 months" that AI will be doing all of SWE work. Lets hold these people accountable for a change! | | |
| ▲ | aspenmartin 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > "in 6 months" that AI will be doing all of SWE work I assume this is the quote you're referring to from Davos? "I have engineers within Anthropic who say I don’t write any code anymore. I just let the model write the code, I edit it. I do the things around it… we might be six to twelve months away from when the model is doing most, maybe all of what SWEs do end to end." that was in Jan, he said "might" and he said 6-12 months. Yes! Let's hold him accountable for saying reasonable things! | | |
| ▲ | hansmayer 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Reasonable things? He said the same shit over and over over the last several years. Yes, lets hold him accountable - you don't make such "oopsies" accidentally, several times in a row. | | |
| ▲ | aspenmartin an hour ago | parent [-] | | Seems pretty reasonable to me. Timescales are hard for anyone to predict. He is forced to do these predictions to know how much compute to buy in advance. Surprisingly, he underbought compute and now has to scramble to secure it from xAI or wherever he can. So he was overly conservative... | | |
| ▲ | hansmayer an hour ago | parent [-] | | > Timescales are hard for anyone to predict Indeed. That's why serious people are very careful, even if they are not running a company supposedly worth 1T USD > He is forced to do these predictions to know how much compute to buy in advance Ah well, that explains it. For my companies next quarter, I'll just pull some random numbers out of my ass so we can make plans with material impact to company business based on that. | | |
| ▲ | aspenmartin an hour ago | parent [-] | | > That's why serious people are very careful, even if they are not running a company supposedly worth 1T USD 10x revenue growth per year, even more this year...his predictions about when agents will claim SWE e2e work are his speculations, relevant because people care about what he thinks as he is closer than anyone to the leading edge of the technology. It's also important for him to be as accurate as he can about this because he has to put his money where his mouth is. He has to sign the right amount of compute otherwise he screws himself. He got it wrong in the opposite direction that you're implying, so at this point it sounds like you are more interested in your axe to grind than the truth on the ground. You think enterprises are adopting CC because they think "oh this will replace my SWEs I can fire them"? That's not happening at major companies. They buy CC because it's useful and the writing is so clearly on the wall in so many data points that to suggest otherwise is a bit silly at this point. > For my companies next quarter, I'll just pull some random numbers out of my ass so we can make plans with material impact to company business based on that. You, as a leader of a company, don't have to make predictions? Don't have to make bets about what the best thing for you to do next year? That must be incredibly nice. Amodei and everyone else need to plan compute and plan their products and roadmap. You want him to....not do that? | | |
| ▲ | hansmayer 19 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > 10x revenue growth per year To the stunning tune of 5B in the lifetime . > You think enterprises are adopting CC because they think "oh this will replace my SWEs I can fire them"? Yeah, that's actually Darios main talking point > They buy CC because it's useful and the writing is so clearly on the wall in so many data points that to suggest otherwise is a bit silly at this point Right, really sound arguments - writing is "clearly on the wall" and there are "so many data points". I'd be keen to use those immediately, but I am kind of missing the key of the "many data points" - namely, what did you build with it and how much ARR is it generating? > You, as a leader of a company, don't have to make predictions I have to make predictions, but not confabulations, lies and idiocies. > Amodei and everyone else need to plan compute FOR WHAT? Again, what was built with their shitty product in various companies and how much ARR did it generate? Uber seems to get no value out of it. | | |
| ▲ | aspenmartin 5 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Anthropic has generated far more than 5B in revenue, I don’t know what sort of computer you have but it evidently does have the Internet, I would recommend using that unless the Internet CEOs are also in trouble for hyping that one up. > Right, really sound arguments - writing is "clearly on the wall" and there are "so many data points". Thank you for recognizing this. Don’t read Ed and think you understand anything about AI is all I’ll say. Read epoch capability index paper and look at the dashboard chart or the METR time horizon chart and methodology and then return with what I imagine from historical comments will be another ferocious and impressive act of mental gymnastics. > I have to make predictions, but not confabulations, lies and idiocies. Idk you’ve been misquoting and aggressively against addressing any facts you are presented with and yet bring no facts of your own (hint: if you know what you’re talking about typically you can calmly discuss with actual facts). That feels pretty similar to confabulations, I won’t say idiocy I’m sure you are not an idiot but you seem to have a lot in common with your caricatures of tech CEOs. > FOR WHAT? Their product. |
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| ▲ | supern0va 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I work in big tech and probably 90% of code over the last month has been written by AI. And I suspect it's probably higher within Anthropic, which is probably what he's basing his opinion on. So, he's closer to correct than not. That said, your recollection is also flawed. It was in mid-March, and here's the relevant quotes: >I think we’ll be there in three to six months—where AI is writing 90 percent of the code. And then in twelve months, we may be in a world where AI is writing essentially all of the code. [...] >But the programmer still needs to specify, you know, what are—what are the conditions of what you’re doing, what—you know, what is the overall app you’re trying to make, what’s the overall design decision? How do we collaborate with other code that’s been written? You know, how do we have some common sense on whether this is a secure design or an insecure design? [...] >So as long as there are these small pieces that a programmer, a human programmer, needs to do, the AI isn’t good at, I think human productivity will actually be enhanced. But on the other hand, I think that eventually all those little islands will get picked off by AI systems. With another 3-4 months left on the clock, his prediction seems remarkably on point for at least certain organizations and domains. I welcome you to also hold yourself accountable in the coming months if this trend continues. ;) | | |
| ▲ | hansmayer an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | > I welcome you to also hold yourself accountable in the coming months if this trend continues. ;) My company did not swallow hundreds of billions in shady investment deals and is not publicly traded. We work with real money, and the revenue on our books is the revenue that is actually booked, not fake revenue we plan in 2 years time to maybe happen. So no, I am not going to hold myself accountable. But people who work with other people's money should be absolutely held accountable when their wild imaginations don't come true, repeatedly, quarter after quarter, year after year! | | |
| ▲ | aspenmartin an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | I think he means hold yourself accountable when it turns out your predictions and pessimism don't age well. | | |
| ▲ | hansmayer an hour ago | parent [-] | | Mate, for 5 years I've been hearing that crap. I am not predicting anything / on the contrary the AI boosting bunch is. When are your predictions coming true? | | |
| ▲ | supern0va an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | AFAIK, most predictions from several years ago were for...approximately now to within the next few years. Can you be more specific? You criticized a very specific (and fake/misquoted) prediction, ignored the correction, and are now criticizing vague hand-wavey "predictions" that you have left unspecified. Can you please stop with the angry/ranty replies and actually have a real conversation grounded in actual facts? Now, having said all of the above...I'll also point out that these are predictions, not promises/guarantees. These people are being asked to forecast and are doing so. I hardly think they should be held responsible for not being literal oracles, but even so--please, at least quote them correctly/at all. In short: be better than the hallucinations you're seen to call out from the models. | |
| ▲ | aspenmartin an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | What predictions, sorry? |
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| ▲ | supern0va an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | I will note that you have essentially not responded to anything specific in my comment, nor at least acknowledged that you misstated Dario Amodei's actual prediction. |
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| ▲ | pier25 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > And I suspect it's probably higher within Anthropic That probably explains why their uptime and reliability are so bad. | |
| ▲ | m1coti an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Written, but was it reviewed? Do you need to edit code written by LLM? I agree that most of the things are written by AI but writting code was never the bottleneck in big tech. | | |
| ▲ | supern0va an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Yep! We have a review process where we have a few agents, each tuned to a particular domain of expertise (security, code quality, etc) which iterate until the feedback meets a certain threshold, at which point it goes over to humans for (hopefully) final review. That said, I generally agree that you're correct: writing code in many ways has not been the biggest bottleneck. However, by removing much of that writing, it frees up engineers to work on the uniquely human things that are larger bottlenecks. I had a few comments in a thread here touching on where I think most of the value has come from for us (which is largely search/understanding of our dependencies and making away team work far more viable, which aids with cutting through bureaucracy and the tendency for teams to push back on work): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48298731 | |
| ▲ | hansmayer an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Haven't you heard - these days they just throw slop generated by LLM agents over to other LLM agents which cosplay as internal QA. They know it works because they write really strict .MD files where they instruct agents in English language to 'never do this' and 'always do that'. | | |
| ▲ | aspenmartin 41 minutes ago | parent [-] | | This is really what you think happens at large tech companies? You don't think it's possible this is maybe even slightly overly simplifying what the relevant processes are? | | |
| ▲ | hansmayer 30 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Read the other comment in the thread. Your buddy literally confirmed exactly what I wrote. | | |
| ▲ | aspenmartin 19 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Comment does indicate you don’t really seek to know how things work with respect to this and seem to not be able to imagine that the Occam’s razor is: agents are more useful than you think they are. |
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| ▲ | sampli 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Elon playbook |
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| ▲ | aspenmartin 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | thats not that far off. Costs like $100Ms to train a frontier coding agent model today, billions if you count the full pipeline. Combine that with the infra we're building out, the fact that you have multiple labs building similar scaled models, the industry-wide costs of training frontier models could easily surpass 10B/yr in 2027 | | |
| ▲ | pier25 an hour ago | parent [-] | | Yes, when he made that claim back in 2024 they were spending like $100M to train a model. |
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| ▲ | duped 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| AI companies/users are filled with liars and grifters, so any numbers/outlook they report should be highly suspect. |
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| ▲ | supern0va 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I must admit that I am going to find it fascinating when we hit the point where it becomes nearly impossible to deny the efficacy of these tools. I have straight up had people, even in real life, suggest that I'm lying about my productivity gains or what I'm able to accomplish with them. Like, I understand the reasonable arguments against (I even agree with a few), but it's clear that some people have fully inserted their head into the sand and just don't want to believe any of this could be true. Which will be harsh, since I think getting hit with this train all at once in the future is going to be a rougher ride than a slower coming-to-terms-with, even if the result is one we're unhappy with. | | |
| ▲ | hansmayer an hour ago | parent [-] | | In the meanwhile, Google AI search still says the next year after 2026 will be 2028. |
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| ▲ | bflesch 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | There's a saying "the fish stinks from the head". |
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