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Bender 3 hours ago

The only device mandates that should be taking place is for the default installations of web clients should be checking to see if parental controls are enabled. This only impacts the major browsers. An intern at each browser company could add this check in minutes. If they are enabled and the person logged in is on a regular account (not admin or power user of sorts) then the base installation of web clients must check for an RTA header [1]. If present, prompt for a override password and also give the option for the admin to approve-list the domain at that time. That's it. Not perfect, nothing is or will be.

The only thing server, platform, website, service providers should be doing is setting an RTA header if the content could possibly be adult or user-contributed content that could dynamically become adult, moderation aside. This knocks out two issues with one fix. Small children don't see much if any adult content and they are kept off social media until the admin (parent or legal guardian) approves it.

If a site is not adding the RTA header then progressively fine them into oblivion. If they accept the fines as the cost of doing business then seize everything and put everyone in GenPop. An intern could enable the header in 5 minutes.

All legislation regarding age verification must revolve around this otherwise people must reject it as an abusive form of tracking and privacy invasion. The focus should be on small children as teen share porn, warez, movies and such within Rated-G games.

[1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47950091

codedokode 15 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I think the header/metatag is designed poorly. The RTA proposal is that every operator of every site must verify the content and add the header to mark the site as "safe" or "unsafe". This is unnecessary burden that they have to bear if this proposal is given a green light and this is wrong.

Instead, the default should be, that if there is no header or it cannot be parsed, then the content is unsafe. And if there is a header, it describes the page rating, like what kind of dangerous content it may contain. The header may be added to any displayable content like HTML, text, images, audio or videos, but not to machine-readable content like JS files or AJAX responses.

So only those who wants their site to be accessible by minors, have to add headers. For social networks, the user might have an option to mark his content as "safe".

This means that with my proposal existing site operators need not to do anything to mark their sites as "unsafe" - all sites are "unsafe" by default. This means that millions of site operators need to spend 0 dollars to adapt their sites. How great is that?

The browser on a device with parent mode, should not allow displaying any content which doesn't have a header or that is marked as unsafe, or that contains header with invalid value. The parents may whitelist some sites.

There should be a reponsibility for intentionally marking unsafe content as "safe". We should also think what to do with foreign operators, intentionally putting invalid headers for unsafe content. Maybe they should be added to some kind of blacklist that the browsers would periodically update.

Search engines like Google could work by default in "safe" mode, but add "unsafe" header if the user wants to turn off restrictions.

> If a site is not adding the RTA header then progressively fine them into oblivion.

I think my proposal is better because it requires only fining those who intentionally misrepresent content safety.

Bender 10 minutes ago | parent [-]

For what its worth this header has been around for a very long time. It's actually the second iteration and much simpler than it's predecessor.

Parents today can accomplish what you are suggesting by installing parental control software and only allowing access to things they explicitly approve.

This can also be done via headers explicit blocking of all the things and was suggested in another thread. [1] Some people liked the idea.

[1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47952999

codedokode 6 minutes ago | parent [-]

The point is that it is unrealistic to expect millions of people to mark the content. Also, the header is better than the metatag because it can be added to images, videos and other non-HTML content as well.

iamalizard 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

No such mandates should take place at all.

burnte 23 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

This is correct. It is not the government's job to raise our children. The more we ask the gov't to do that we should do, the less power we actually have. Some will say this ship has sailed, well, I say it's not too late to sink it.

throwawayqqq11 4 minutes ago | parent [-]

I am sick of these "government bad" takes. They lack constructive suggestions, like your "sink it" nugget, they lack decent problem descriptions, as if anything after the sinking (likely private governance, aka feudalism) is immune to the ills of big-gov, and on top perpetuate reductivist arguments as if any kind of restrictions of freedom is by definition bad.

This broad rejection without good reasons is borderline sociopathic. ... and parental control is not the gov raising anyone.

harshreality 36 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A lot of us who grew up pre-social-media agree in principle.

What it fails to account for is that today's internet is qualitatively different from the pre-social-media, pre-smartphone internet. The vast majority of the internet audience, too, is qualitatively different. Incentives are misaligned for an average parent who might want to keep a tight leash on smartphone internet access for their kids, when attempting to do so will generate fierce opposition from their kids and leave them socially out of the loop.

reddalo 27 minutes ago | parent [-]

People also wanted to smoke cigarettes but they got fierce opposition from their parents. That's what parents should do.

Maybe we should teach parents how to be parents instead of imposing draconian age checks (read: mass surveillance).

infinitezest 15 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Aren't there laws against selling tobacco to minors? And advertising to them? Your analogy is supporting the opposite conclusion.

iamalizard 4 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

In some countries they scan you ID and likely keep it some database when you buy drugs or enter bars or clubs. In others they just look at your ID card if you don't look old enough.

The first example is bad, the second is tolerable.

But the reason most kids don't smoke is that the parents and the teachers instilled in them that it was bad. If a kid wants to smoke or drink, they can surely get an older friend or a friend of a friend to sell them the cigarettes or alcohol. Anyone can buy 20 bottles of hard liquor and 50 packs of cigarettes, sell them to a 15 year old who can then sell them to their friends. That doesn't happen often not because a surprise police raid will show up and bust the seller but because there isn't enough demand. If there is demand from the kids and the parents don't care, kids will get their hands on drugs. Maybe not 9 year olds but certainly the teens.

wizzwizz4 2 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Laws like that are sensible – and, in fact, already apply to the internet, too. Age verification doesn't help with that.

RHSeeger 15 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

This seems like a poor example, because we _also_ made it illegal for minors to buy (and smoke?) cigarettes.

Bender an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I agree fundamentally and ideologically but we are past that point. The toothpaste is already out of the tube as they say. There will be restrictions so all I can do is suggest more sensible restrictions that keep the control on the client side and do not share data. Any data shared can and will be abused, leaked, sold, stolen without consequence.

shevy-java 8 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

We are not past the point at all. Any democracy can ultimately decide on laws and regulation. Why would you wish to insinuate otherwise here? California could easily decide to not implement such laws, for instance.

That data leaks out is always a given. So, gather less data. Ideally none. But this is not a discussion about data. This is a discussion as to what state actors think they are allowed to do. It is an attack on private life of people. See the combined strike against VPNs.

AdrianB1 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I heard that lie about "sensible restrictions" so many times, now I am waiting for "sensible violence", "sensible beating to death" and so on. It is a false argument that "there will be restrictions so all I can do is suggest more sensible restrictions", what you can do is recognize that "no restrictions is an option".

It is like negotiating with a terrorist that wants to kill you and this is his starting position and then he wants to agree on some compromise, like seriously beating you. There is no negotiation.

Bender an hour ago | parent [-]

No harm in pushing for no restrictions at all. I support this idea.

yetta an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

No we aren't. Also you can put toothpaste in tubes or it wouldn't be in there. Hope that helps!

mikestorrent an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I agree with you, as a longtime free speech believe.

but... I would also like to keep my kids from seeing the very worst of the internet before they're ready to handle it. I tried using a PiHole but Firefox DNS-over-HTTPS nullifies that now. It's not realistic for me to be watching over their shoulders 24/7; what can I do to keep them away from stuff 99% of people agree isn't for children to see, without something like this?

Bender an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Unbound DNS if compiled with --with-libnghttp2 can listen for DoH and your Unbound/Pihole can forward to any destination you desire. This is what it looks like on my firewall:

    # https://doh-int.mydomain.net/dns-query
        interface: [ip of lan port]@443
        interface: [ip of wifi port]@443
        https-port: 443
        http-max-streams: 220
        tls-service-key: "/etc/unbound/keys.d/unbound_server.key"
        tls-service-pem: "/etc/unbound/keys.d/unbound_server.pem"
Null routing the open DoH resolvers is just having a startup script that reads a list of all their IP addresses and

    ip route add blackhole "${IP}" 2>/dev/null
People will argue that DoH can run on anything which is true but all the major resolvers will always use dedicated IP addresses as to not risk blocking CDN end points.

If the childs account is not able to gain admin privs then their ability to change settings can be disabled.

anigbrowl an hour ago | parent [-]

99% of people have no idea what this means, but they do understand voting.

Bender 44 minutes ago | parent [-]

Yup I was just replying to the .001% that was discussing it. Please do reach out to your congress people.

anigbrowl 25 minutes ago | parent [-]

OK but we're talking about a general social problem (parents understandably don't want their kids corupte dby adult stuff, and some adult services vendors are unscrupulous but the internet makes it easy for them to hide.

I personally think this current version of the legislation is a good compromise. Tech workarounds are fine for the few of us that understand the relevant technology (though I have never bothered to compile DNS in my life and have no plans to do so in the future), but they are simply not practical for most people. Every time I hear someone suggesting this sort of thing I find myself tempted to say 'why worry about legislation? If you don't like what it mandates you can just write your own operating system.'

Of course this would not be helpful because writing your own OS is extremely hard beyond classroom/toy examples. And likewise, tech workarounds and even parental controls are hard for most consumers - partly by design. I have an xbox console and have been trying to figure out why it keeps freezing on certain apps for months now. I suspect a telemetry problem but it's just a guess, there isn't really any way to look at logs so it's a trial and error process because most consumer hardware/application vendors want their products to be black boxes.

shevy-java 4 minutes ago | parent [-]

> I personally think this current version of the legislation is a good compromise.

I don't think it is a good compromise. It seems to cover the wrong use cases.

My use cases have nothing to do with children on any level. Why would I want to submit to government restrictions? That makes zero sense.

It's as if the right-to-repair-movement would suddenly be undermined by a lobbyist advocating how restrictions are great. Or Jackie Chan suddenly praising the sinomarxist mono-party.

grim_io an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Well, you can't.

Like no past generation could stop their kids.

JumpCrisscross an hour ago | parent | next [-]

> no past generation could stop their kids

Past generations absolutely protected their kids from cigarettes and alcohol. A gate doesn’t have to be 100% effective to have net benefits.

kelseyfrog 17 minutes ago | parent [-]

If one kid is able to bypass the system it means it's zero percent effective. Same thing with alcohol, and cigarettes. Especially if it means I have to show my ID to buy those things.

dylan604 an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Just like no past generation had so much information so readily available. One quick quip can always be rebutted by another quick quip, but it doesn't really move the conversation along in any meaningful manner.

shevy-java 6 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You describe a use case for you. That's fine.

Here we talk about use cases for EVERYONE. I don't see how your use case is fine for me, because I personally do not agree with it on any level at all whatsoever. You believe in restriction. I don't. There is no common ground here.

> It's not realistic for me to be watching over their shoulders 24/7

Is this your job? At which age will you stop monitoring them?

> what can I do to keep them away from stuff 99% of people agree isn't for children to see

99%? Where do you get those numbers from?

Besides, what stuff anyway? Even then the issue isn't about your kids. It is about laws for EVERYONE.

fhn 29 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You but them smartphones, tables, laptops, and internet access and then complain there is too much access?

ObscureScience 24 minutes ago | parent [-]

Yeah, why should it not be desireble to give them access to the good properties of such devices and the internet?

pluralmonad 8 minutes ago | parent [-]

What are the good properties that justify giving kids smart phones?

catlikesshrimp an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If your kids are in the smart 1% who can bypass your authority, they will. Be proud. For the rest, we don't need a police atate

malicka an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You could block the default DoH services for Firefox, I reckon.

cyberax an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

> what can I do to keep them away from stuff 99% of people agree isn't for children to see, without something like this?

Nothing. VPNs exist (including free ones), some of classmates will have unlocked devices, etc.

Next question?

Bender 33 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Teens for sure bypass all restrictions. Teens are young adults. My suggestions are for small children. Once a small child evolves and adapts to their surroundings, they too will one day bypass things. Reward them when they do this, it means they're smart and you did a good job.

fhn 28 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

block all VPNs?

jrmg 37 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Are you also against age limits for the purchase of alcohol, cigarettes, pornography etc?

JumpCrisscross an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> No such mandates should take place at all

How do you propose doing age restrictions for social media?

These are broadly popular. (And the evidence supports them.) They are happening. So the question is how to do it best. The project for reversing the consensus isn’t worthless. But it’s a long-term project that will have to bear fruit after these restrictions go into effect, if ever.

an hour ago | parent | next [-]
[deleted]
bijowo1676 38 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

only parents can decide for their own children, so you can do whatever you want for your own children

JumpCrisscross 36 minutes ago | parent [-]

> only parents can decide for their own children

Voters are collectively deciding for all of our children. And there are absolutely group dynamics that require cooperation. It’s why rich communities ban phones in classrooms while in poor communities, the one family that tries doing it alone is probably going to be less successful.

Again, I’m not saying you’re fundamentally wrong. Just that this debate has been had and the polling is massively in favor of bans for under-14 year olds and strongly in favor for under-18s. (And to the degree I’ve connected with electeds, the folks calling in and writing were almost 100% one way. The civically-engaged electorate is practically at consensus.)

anigbrowl an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Filed with nobody should be bad and essential services should be free

tzs 4 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> If they are enabled and the person logged in is on a regular account (not admin or power user of sorts) then the base installation of web clients must check for an RTA header [1].

Your cite is an earlier post of yours which says

> The one and only method I will participate in is server operators setting a RTA header [1]

and that cites a still earlier post of yours

> I stand by my repeated statements of how this could have been solved simply using an RTA header [1]

which finally actually cites¹ something that explains what the heck on RTA header is.

It would be quite a bit more reader friendly to cite https://www.rtalabel.org/page.php rather than make the reader traverse a linked list of comments to get there.

¹https://www.rtalabel.org/page.php

jahnu 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Has this idea been discussed when drafting legislation? I mean are they aware of it but dismissed it for any reason or no stated reasons?

Bender 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I've emailed politicians as have others but only received boilerplate thankyou's. I suspect the real reason is kick-backs but they will never admit it.

No harm in people reaching out to their politicians state and federal. The more people that bring it up the better. Let them know your childrens data will not be shared and when the data is leaked you will hold the politicians accountable.

SilverElfin 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Yep, they get funding from companies like meta and their insiders

reddalo 25 minutes ago | parent [-]

Exactly. More laws about internet services = less new competitors coming into the market, because the barriers to entry are too high.

Bender 16 minutes ago | parent [-]

Well, if the concern is they might miss out on revenue from a small child accessing their site and they are not a child specific site then perhaps they should be pushed out of the market one way or another.

skybrian 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I largely agree, but the RTA header doesn't seem to be good enough for most websites to use. When a website wants to block browsers with parental controls on, but it isn't porn and it shouldn't be blocked by SafeSearch, what do they do?

https://webmasters.stackexchange.com/questions/140733/how-to...

Bender 2 hours ago | parent [-]

what do they do?

They stop trying to put everything in a different category and treat RTA as the person under the age of consent must get approval from their parent or legal guardian. Keep it simple.

skybrian 2 hours ago | parent [-]

That's too simple to get much adoption. It's unreasonable to expect websites to drop out of Google search.

inetknght 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> It's unreasonable to expect websites to drop out of Google search.

Google's doing that for them though.

Bender 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Google and others can adapt. RTA header? Added to potential adult or user-contributed category.

skybrian 42 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I imagine Google wants to distinguish between websites that want to be blocked by SafeSearch, versus websites that want to be blocked when parental controls are on? There's no reason to leave that ambiguous. Plenty of adults have SafeSearch on.

Defining a new header isn't hard; the hard part is getting consensus and adoption.

Bender 25 minutes ago | parent [-]

For what it's worth this header has been around for a long time. It's predecessor (PICS ICRA) was too complicated and started using topics. After a while they added so many topics that even being an abbreviated header it was still massive and confusing. There were websites that people could select all the topics and what not but even then the adoption was low due to complexity and topics constantly changing on sites.

It turned out the internet was too dynamic so the RTA header was created to just say "adult".

lazyasciiart an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Right, no news sites for kids.

Bender an hour ago | parent [-]

Right, no news sites for kids.

Correct. Until parent or guardian puts in password next to the text that says "Approve this site, forever."

You gave me an idea. Maybe there could be categories similar in concept to those that exist in corporate firewalls today that say things like:

- News Category (Known to be SFW)

- News Category (That may be NSFW)

- Child friendly sites

- Social media sites

... and so on.

This could be crowd sourced, ideally in a way that can not be gamed. The masses could flag/report false claims. That, or just keep it simple. ad-hoc input of permitted sites by parent.

lazyasciiart an hour ago | parent [-]

This is a terrible idea and your proposed society is terrible. It doesn’t matter if it’s safe for work; you asked to identify sites with content that can change. Either the parent has seen and approved the content or not.

Bender an hour ago | parent [-]

This is a terrible idea and your proposed society is terrible.

I think I know what you meant and sure we can keep it simple. Site is approved by a parent or it isn't.

ekr____ an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> The only device mandates that should be taking place is for the default installations of web clients should be checking to see if parental controls are enabled. This only impacts the major browsers. An intern at each browser company could add this check in minutes. If they are enabled and the person logged in is on a regular account (not admin or power user of sorts) then the base installation of web clients must check for an RTA header [1]. If present, prompt for a override password and also give the option for the admin to approve-list the domain at that time. That's it. Not perfect, nothing is or will be.

It's useful to contrast this with the various device-based mandates that have been created in order to get a sense of what legislators seem to be trying to do. With that in mind, a few points:

* What you are proposing allows parents to opt in via parental controls, but age assurance mandates (both device-side and server-side) tend to require positive action to enter unrestricted modes. In some cases (CA AB 1043, for instance), this is just a matter of entering your age. In others, you actually need to demonstrate your age via some technical mechanism.

* While many age assurance mandates focus on adult content, which is primarily consumed via the Web, others (e.g., Australia's Social Media Minimum Age) focus on social networking, which is primarily consumed via apps, so anything that is Web only will not be effective.

* Site-level granularity isn't really fine enough in some cases. For example, the New York SAFE for Kids act prohibits certain behaviors such as algorithmic recommendations when a user is a minor, but doesn't require blocking minor usage entirely. It's potentially possible to implement this with something like RTA, but it would have to at minimum be at much finer granularity.

Section VI of https://kgi.georgetown.edu/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/Age_As... goes into quite a bit more detail about various architectures (disclaimer, I'm an author).

None of this is an endorsement of age assurance techniques; I'm just trying to help flesh out the situation.

> All legislation regarding age verification must revolve around this otherwise people must reject it as an abusive form of tracking and privacy invasion.

It's a bit late for that, given that around half of US states already have some kind of age assurance mandate.

Bender an hour ago | parent [-]

It's a bit late for that, given that around half of US states already have some kind of age assurance mandate.

Perhaps late to solve this globally but parents can still install parental control software if they so desire and can still intervene locally to prevent sharing data with 3rd parties. At worst this means small children might not get to visit social media and other assorted sites and I am fine with that. I think a number of parents would be fine with that as well.

Sites can voluntarily label as some do. It just means that parental controls would have to default to blocking everything until approved and while sub-optimal maybe that's what people will have to do in order to avoid the evil pattern of sharing data with all the websites that will ultimately leak, or "leak", be sold, stolen, etc... Good parents will not participate in the evil patterns of sharing their children's personally identifiable information.

When the PII of children is ultimately shared with evil people the children once adults will resent their parents for not protecting them.

- To all parents here, your children have no idea what risks are out there including devious companies that want their data. They will one day be adults if all goes well. Protect your children as corporations and governments will not. They will thank you when they find out all their friends data was shared, leaked or otherwise abused forever.

ekr____ 2 minutes ago | parent [-]

I'm not following you here.

Certainly parents can install parental control software, but what does this have to do with children's PII being shared with sites?

Just so we're on the same page, the way AB1043 works is that the OS determines the user's age and then shares the age bracket with apps. No PII is shared with sites (this is not to say that the age isn't sensitive, but it's not PII as usually regarded). Is your concern here that sites get access to children's information because children visit certain sites regardless of legislation? That's a real thing, but it seems mostly orthogonal to age assurance.

delusional 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A) Aren't you targeting a completely different problem than this law? It's my understanding that this law targets the collection of the age from the user. What the user agent does with that signal is a different problem, and seems to already be solved, except for the definition of "actual knowledge" which they are trying to establish here.

B) How would your RTA header intersect with content rating in different jurisdictions? What if the content is illegal for children in Turkey but legal for children in Kentucky?

Bender 2 hours ago | parent [-]

For topic (A) I am suggesting to negate this behavior all together. No more sharing personal data. That evil-pattern must be stopped.

For topic (B) companies can set or not set the header based on GeoIP. Not perfect but GeoIP is already used in load balancers, web servers and applications.

delusional 27 minutes ago | parent [-]

For (A) we have nothing to talk about. I think we fundamentally disagree about how society functions, and we aren't going to knock that out over hackernews.

For (B), your proposal requires the website have a database over current rules in every country they would be accessible from. Would a website then, in your opinion, be responsible for the accuracy of this database? We have to presuppose an official GeoIP source that would then be legally binding and under democratic control, but given such a database, would a website serving a wrong header to an IP associated with a specific country then be committing a crime in that country? What would the punishment be?

Bender 23 minutes ago | parent [-]

For (A) I guess you are right, we won't agree. I do like your username however.

For (B) this is already a thing. Porn sites and already doing this. Instead of blocking a region I am proposing to stop blocking and instead the law permit them to just add a header. The only people I can imagine apposing this are commercial VPN providers.

themafia 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> An intern at each browser company could add this check in minutes.

An intern could also just delete the product which would also "solve" this "issue". The fact that it's easy or cheap is not significant to the problem at hand.

> should be doing is setting an RTA header

Many sites will just set the header by default. Now you've created a problem.

> then progressively fine them into oblivion.

This does nothing. See: Ofcom vs 4chan.

> device mandates

Mandate that the device provide an API for child protection software. Then it's up to individual parents to decide to install that software or not. Then we also get competition in this market rather than relying on whatever solution an intern cooked up one day.

Bender 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

On the topic of 4chan [1]

Many sites will just set the header by default. Now you've created a problem.

I am not seeing a problem. Kids need not access those sites unless the parent or legal guardian approves it. Sites meant for children would not be adding the header.

[1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47953096

themafia 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> Sites meant for children would not be adding the header.

Is Wikipedia "meant for children?" Should they be fully denied access to it? Should Wikimedia be fined if they make a mistake? If they get fined often enough do you think they'll just turn the header on everywhere in order to avoid risk?

Replace Wikipedia with any other mixed content site you prefer.

Bender 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Child specific sites would not add the header. Anyone else could. I add it to my hobby sites. Some porn sites already add it to their sites [1]. Shodan can't reach my sites. I do not want small children on my blogs.

Add it to any site not specifically meant for children, that is totally fine.

[1] - https://www.shodan.io/search?query=RTA-5042-1996-1400-1577-R... [ Follow Links At Your Own Peril ]

pessimizer 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I must be stupid. Reword this so it makes sense to me. I can't even parse it.

Bender 2 hours ago | parent [-]

- Site adds a header if they may potentially have adult content.

- Browser detects header. Prompts for local password to access site.

- Child does not know password, picks a different site or begs parent for access.

- This is now between small child and parent. No third parties, no tracking, no telling website the users age, no local or remote API's sharing data.

- At some point if all goes well the child will be an adult and will thank their parent for looking out for them when all their friends data was sold and abused.

pessimizer 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Absolutely trivial and totally comprehensive solution, enabling adult content blocking at the account level, device level, network level, and the ISP level. Could even be expanded to any sort of content blocking, if you want to allow households to restrict access to vaccine critique or criticism of the king without violating the First Amendment or rooting everyone's devices.

The problem is that the point is to root everyone's devices. Anyone explaining how easy this is would be pushed out of the conversation as fast as if they were advocating for single-payer healthcare.

edit: I've been advocating the nearly identical but opposite solution - restricted access sites shouldn't respond to requests that lack an appropriate age/content restriction header. If they do, jail them.

They're literally going to have to do this anyway. Rooting people's devices to force them to lie about their age when they install their operating system is an absolutely fake pretendy solution; the only way it works is if you have to verify your age with some government agency when you install an operating system, in order to make that OS age official. The point is the identification.

salawat 2 hours ago | parent [-]

No. That requires information disclosure to a third party. The point is enabling device admins better control over local device behavior. We're trying to keep conscientious parents able to do their thing. Not further enable the ability to manage the populace with official registries. If a kid can figure out how to install their own OS without their parent's help, odds are the kid is with it enough to start dipping their toes in the deep end. Or at least until they out themselves in front of their parents. In that case though it's a home problem, not a rest of the Internet problem.

It's still a stupid unconstitutional law, but I see what the aim is, even without strawmanning it.

wizardforhire 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Thats crazy talk, how are we gonna build a database of computers tied to physical identification of users by which we can monitor, control, and monetize… you’re saying parents should be responsible for their children? How is the state going to be able to exert more control if it doesn’t have ubiquitous surveillance of it’s population!? /s