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burnte an hour ago

This is correct. It is not the government's job to raise our children. The more we ask the gov't to do that we should do, the less power we actually have. Some will say this ship has sailed, well, I say it's not too late to sink it.

hansvm an hour ago | parent | next [-]

On the other hand, I know several "home-schooled" people [0] who literally can't even read and later married people more than twice their age or had other serious deficiencies in their life potential. The government can probably step in a little more here and there.

[0] I also know home-schooled people whose parents are far better than any teacher I've ever had and whose education and achievements reflect that obvious fact. Home-schooling itself isn't the issue, and I'd prefer that it remain possible.

burnte 12 minutes ago | parent [-]

Public education is extremely different from age checks in apps. Yes, homeschooled people are generally really dumb because humans are not born with the knowledge of the world or how to teach it. This is different from California telling Debian to ask for user ages.

xorcist 11 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Earlier today there was a large thread on HN about the golden age of child rearing, from time immemorial to about two decades ago, when children started getting sent home and parents got a stern talking to from the police, just for owning a pocket knife or biking home alone.

We really can't have it both ways, that every failure of the child is blamed on the parent for lapsing in their almost totalitarian oversight, while also idealizing the idea that children must make their own mistakes and gradually growing into responsibilities and self-governance. Except having access to the Internet, apparently.

Taking a step back, this all smells like madeleines and a yearning for the good old days when everyone rode bikes and nobody owned smartphones. That's not really a productive stance on anything.

(If you would ask me, and I'm sure nobody would, I would think that there is a sort of trade-off here but with a clear answer: Make clear restrictions about buying cigarettes, alcohol, abusive content and extreme porn. But these restrictions aren't meant to be technically perfect. It's ok that some kids will learn to lift the limits and explore what is forbidden. At least then they would know that there is some reason society collectively considers these things off-limits, and that they soon will be in a mistake of their own making.)

codedokode an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

But it seems that many parents do not bother to do anything to raise their children properly, including setting up parental controls.

echelon an hour ago | parent [-]

Let me be very explicit so we're not dancing around the topic:

The potentially all-powerful government shouldn't know:

- what vices a person has

- what religion a person has or doesn't have

- what porn you watch

- what alcohol and drugs you buy

PERIOD.

All of these things can be exploited. To control jobs, to control finances, to extort influence, etc.

The government shouldn't be able to catalog those things in a database for later misuse.

The government shouldn't be able to install friction or barriers that make it easy to cordon off and kill these things at a later time.

"Think of the kids" can go to hell. Nobody's having children anyway.

This is a very real (not logically fallacious) slippery slope right into the pages of 1984.

xorcist 29 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

What constitutes an all-powerful government? It seems rife for a no-true-scotsman argument.

Would it be acceptable for a private company to own this information? Perhaps sell it to others?

girvo 23 minutes ago | parent [-]

To me an all powerful government is one that has all the information the user just listed, because governments are by definition the most powerful force in our countries.

Private companies should also be regulated with regards to data sales of private information, yes.

stouset 36 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Nobody here disagrees. What should be the case is that sites are broadly required to flag what kind of content they serve so parents can choose to exercise their own level of desired control.

throwawayqqq11 an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

I am sick of these "government bad" takes. They lack constructive suggestions, like your "sink it" nugget, they lack decent problem descriptions, as if anything after the sinking (likely private governance, aka feudalism) is immune to the ills of big-gov, and on top perpetuate reductivist arguments as if any kind of restrictions of freedom is by definition bad.

This broad rejection without good reasons is borderline sociopathic. ... and parental control is not the gov raising anyone.

iugtmkbdfil834 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Friend, we have a fair amount of suggestions ( including constructive ones! ). Do you know why? Because we mostly know how to make education decent for individual students like:

- keeping class sizes small - keeping class within similar development range ( AP with AP. short bus with short bus )

None of it is a secret, but government can't (edit:or won't) make it happen. Hence regular people just doing the best they can within the system at their disposal.

zdragnar 22 minutes ago | parent [-]

I know people who will adamantly insist that keeping classes within similar development ranges is harmful and will vociferously reject any such proposal, up to and including things such as "gifted" schools and the like.

It's why some schools in (iirc) California did away with higher maths like calculus entirely.

Sadly, it seems there's nothing actually common about common wisdom.

iugtmkbdfil834 17 minutes ago | parent [-]

I will admit that I never heard a serious argument from anyone that did not rely on issues not related to individual student's education. If you have any materials on those, I would love to read some of it.

Aerroon an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

And I am sick of people constantly wanting every single aspect of life regulated by the government. You guys need to understand that government isn't static and society changes. The rules you come up with today are going to get in the way in unexpected ways tomorrow. Regulations should only happen if you can demonstrate that it substantially improves things in a measurable way.

Eg "if you ban cellphones in schools then average test scores (on tests like PISA) will substantially improve". Or something else like that.

>This broad rejection without good reasons is borderline sociopathic.

It's sociopathic to not want the people in control to constantly make up new arbitrary rules? I guess we just need a few more Patriot Acts and Snoopers Charters.

forgetfreeman an hour ago | parent [-]

"And I am sick of people constantly wanting every single aspect of life regulated by the government." We're carting that strawman out again? What folks mostly want is for private industry to collectively display something approximating business ethics and maybe self-regulate away from objectively harmful/predatory behavior. The last few decades have very clearly demonstrated that there is literally no bottom to private industry depravity unless one is literally forced in place by legislation.

forgetfreeman an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

What's really wild is 9 times out of 10 when you back a crypto-libertarian into a rhetorical corner far enough to get them to drop their pretenses what you're left with is "OMG YOU ARENT MY DAD" is, at least in their mind, a cogent political philosophy.