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darthcloud 2 hours ago

As a Canadian, I’ve been thinking since last year about migrating to non-US services and applications.

My main goal is simply to avoid giving money or data directly to US corporations. I have no illusions, these non-US services probably still benefit US companies in some ways.

They’re rare, but I’ve consciously decided to stay away from some Canadian alternatives. The main customers of most Canadian tech companies are in the US, and I feel they would happily move there if needed.

I started with this:

Gmail / Drive → Proton Mail / Drive

NameCheap / GoDaddy → Infomaniak

Google Maps → TomTom

Google Chrome → Vivaldi

Google Search → Startpage (Vivaldi default)

GitHub → Codeberg & Codefloe (for private)

I do like Proton Mail. The main thing I hate is how often the app and web versions get out of sync for read and archive states.

I’m really happy with Infomaniak, migrating all my domains was a breeze.

Vivaldi is based on the Chrome codebase, but I really love all the extra customization options. It was a very easy switch.

Startpage took me some time to get used to. It’s not as good as Google, but whatever.

TomTom isn’t great, but it’s not like Maps has been great over the last few years either.

Forgejo is much better than what GitHub has become.

Next, I’m thinking of moving away from Google Photos. I’m considering pCloud for that.

detectivestory 18 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I've moved to pCloud for photos and I've found it to be a good alternative. One frustrating thing is that if you are cycling through your photos on the default pcloud app, they are usually slow to render which can be frustrating. Playing music on the app is also a little frustrating. It works, but it it's not an amazing UX. Other than that I am completely content with pCloud though, and I would recommend it.

One other thing to be made aware of is that the macOS ecosystem seems to be a little hostile towards pCloud and it seems to be fighting a never ending battle in order to the get the remote drive functioning reliably there. It works, but it can be a little annoying at times.

Deeds67 23 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm actually working on an open source alternative to Google photos right now. Might be interesting to you: https://opennoodle.de

I've got a demo of it running here, so you can see what it looks like:

https://demo.opennoodle.de

Bombthecat 16 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Immich would be one, if they would allow photo compression... Insane that they don't even allow an option parameter

Edit: oh just saw, it's a fork of immich! Cool!

Deeds67 11 minutes ago | parent [-]

Go ahead and make a feature request for it, sounds like something I could build soon :)

highmastdon 19 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Fyi, your bottom bar with links isn't responsive causing annoying behaviour with horizontal scroll on mobile phone

Deeds67 16 minutes ago | parent [-]

Thanks for the hint, I fixed it

commandlinefan an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> avoid giving money

You're paying for any of these?

hedora 27 minutes ago | parent [-]

Most of those services are paid by terrible people when you use them.

Look at their revenue breakdowns.

cicko an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Hasn't TomTom completely pivoted to OpenStreetMap? From direct contact, I know that they are very active in OSM communities now.

wolvoleo an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yeah I was thinking of getting infomaniak for my mail. I don't really care for the encryption thing of proton (all email comes in in plain text anyway!) and I want to just be able to do plain imap without bridges.

But their stuff just feels a bit weird somehow. I didn't really want to commit yet. I'm glad to hear you had good experiences.

frevib 38 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Proton has mail, calendar, drive, docs, sheets and more coming. Everything is done e2ee where possible. In case of mail, when the peer has no Proton, mail is indeed send plaintext.

Mail is stored e2ee on server, so not even Proton can read it. Proton mail has also made PGP very easy to use. It’s Swiss based and a foundation, not a corporation. They’ve done this so they cannot easily be bought.

It ticks most boxes in terms of privacy and security.

exceptione 3 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> Mail is stored e2ee on server

Exclusively, or do they keep caches around? I am asking since everything is clear text in the webmail. I wonder if they handle the rare case of proton to proton (encrypted) mail differently from regular unencrypted mail. I assume they have to decrypt a master key stored on the server with your password, and then decrypt every encrypted email on the fly on the server, or they have to send the master key to the client side.

Now think that through when you have thousands of searchable e-mails, sorted arbitrarily. I won't say it is impossible, but I think that maintaining plain text indexes rather than encrypted ones are really tempting.

Bombthecat 13 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Proton is moving out of Swiss, because of privacy concerns and new laws...

Just fyi

thejohnconway an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

I'm using it Infomaniak, including their KDrive as a Dropbox replacement (with 2TB of data). I've even used their video conferencing app. No complaints so far. All seems to work just fine.

omnimus 22 minutes ago | parent [-]

The infomaniak KDrive has also pretty great pricing and surprisingly great linux client (it even supports “online/offline” files.

mentalgear an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

For Photos, consider Ente (e2ee).

Instead of Startpage, try DDG (DuckDuckGo) - been using it now for several years instead of Google as I found no difference in search quality.

wccrawford an hour ago | parent [-]

Their whole point was to avoid US companies.

Besticle an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If you're going through all that effort why not migrate to open-source/self-hosted?

kgwxd 44 minutes ago | parent [-]

Email? The rest of your life will be spent wondering if anyone got your message or if you've missed something important.

Registrar, and search? Not possible.

Maps? Paper would be more practical.

Browser, done.

Git, a lot of extra work for no gain.

bluebarbet a few seconds ago | parent [-]

>Maps? Paper would be more practical.

On the contrary, maps are (IMO) one domain where FOSS is genuinely better. OpenStreetMap data is far more detailed than any corporate map, and the available clients (Osmand in particular) are far more powerful.

You-know-who can only compete because of its (admittedly useful) data on businesses. And, alas, because of ignorance among normies, many of whom are still clueless that, for example, for hiking or outdoor wayfinding, there are much better alternatives available.

boringg 26 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This doesn't make a lot of sense:

"They’re rare, but I’ve consciously decided to stay away from some Canadian alternatives. The main customers of most Canadian tech companies are in the US, and I feel they would happily move there if needed."

So in an effort to veer from the US based on idealogical positions you wouldn't support your own countrymen because you think in some future state that said copmany might hypothetically move to the US?

Canadians unable to support Canadians is what everyone around the world should read from this comment. Tall Poppy Syndrome in its purest.

sodapopcan 22 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Agreed, this is a VERY odd statement. There are a bunch of Canadian companies that have been here for a long time. I don't have the data but would DNS and hosting providers like EasyDNS and HostPappa really have primarily US customers?

bluebarbet 15 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>What utter BS

Consider for a moment how you would feel if, after carefully composing and sharing your thoughts in good faith, you received this response.

boringg 12 minutes ago | parent [-]

Im sorry but saying you won't support your own people because you THINK they MIGHT move to the US is BS (I removed it originally because I toned down my knee jerk reaction but I defend it as you brought it up). I hope OP has enough emotional capability to handle some gentle feedback.

FWIW in case you are unfamiliar with it -- Canada has a history of not supporting its own products and companies - so this sentiment expressed above is tough one to swallow given the exceptional talent and capability of Canadians and some countries efforts to undermine that.

joe_mamba 23 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Isn't it compounded with issue that something like 75% of UW grads move to the US for work?

boringg 9 minutes ago | parent [-]

Im not sure I follow your point exactly?

ekianjo 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Next, I’m thinking of moving away from Google Photos. I’m considering pCloud for that.

Maybe try Immich?

dwayne_dibley an hour ago | parent [-]

Seconded.

butILoveLife an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[flagged]

thejohnconway an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Maybe Americans don't really get this, but the Greenland stuff was a very, very big deal. The rest of NATO was staring down the barrel of the unthinkable: war with the United States. For what? Some lib owning? A bit of fun? A real estate deal? The sense of betrayal is very strong, more than the politicians are letting on.

tbihl an hour ago | parent [-]

The Diego Garcia stuff is a very, very big deal. I think it's unreasonable to draw the comparison between the exceptionally short-sighted Brits and the uncommonly prudent Danes. But hypothesizing Trump Tower Thule as the motive is ridiculous.

arethuza 42 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

"exceptionally short-sighted Brits"

Probably something along the lines of "nice nuclear deterrent shame if it was to stop working" or "nice carriers, shame if the only aeroplanes that can fly from them stopped working"....

thejohnconway 41 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

I don't understand your comment.

tbihl 26 minutes ago | parent [-]

Diego Garcia is an island of exceptional strategic importance to the West. When it eventually gets granted to a client state of China, that will steadily degrade the effectiveness of bases there. I expect slower movement than the time the UK promised to protect the rights of Hong Kong citizens, but that is a matter of degree.

I am not aware of Denmark giving meaningful control of Greenland to China or Russia, nor or any plans to push the US out: therefore, while I think the principle is worth considering, I find it to be a small concern not worth angering allies over.

Does that answer your statement of confusion?

thejohnconway 13 minutes ago | parent [-]

I don’t see how it relates very well to what I said. I think you’re trying to say the that the Chagos island lease disagreement is as big a deal as threatening to invade a NATO ally.

I disagree.

usefulcat 41 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> a populist demagogue who was promoted by russia

American voters witnessed this demagogue incite a riot in an attempt to steal an election, and after that 2/3 of them still couldn't be bothered to vote against him.

As an American myself, blaming Americans for this situation seems pretty fair.

swasheck an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> happy to stop the freebies we give other nations.

but indignant when other nations return in kind.

argomo an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Note that populist demagogue started a trade war and threatened allies with invasion. That tends to put a damper on friendship. And that's before the idiotic blunder with Hormuz.

avazhi 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

kannanvijayan an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I assure you that many Canadians who are making these moves are emitting very little signal outside of their purchasing decisions.

This is not some end state of success, but a process. It's people sharing their ideas, thoughts, and strategies on how to accomplish a relatively challenging economic shift.

What you are witnessing and commenting on is quite literally the messy business of a market organically evolving and developing. "Not American" is now a selling point for services.

otherme123 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Proton AG, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton_AG, a Swiss company, owned privately by the Proton Foundation https://proton.me/foundation, is US-controlled? How?

BrunoBernardino an hour ago | parent [-]

I'm _assuming_ they're just spreading FUD, over some past events [1]. It's not US-controlled, AFAICT.

[1]: https://activistchecklist.org/proton/

reg_dunlop 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Phrasing this as virtue signaling is a misnomer.

I see it as an effort to divest themselves of moral inequity.

And the result isn't the point: the effort and the reason for the effort, is.

This is the first iteration/calibration of a more conscientious intention.

When moral imperative is an unidentifiable road feature on the highway towards wherever the US is going...small efforts matter

inferniac an hour ago | parent [-]

>divest themselves of moral inequity

how is that not virtue signalling lol

shikshake an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Virtue signaling is the worst interpretation you can have of someone attempting to do better. If someone’s trying to make a small impact on the world, shouldn’t you encourage them instead of making fun and claiming they’re just doing it for looks?

AdamN 23 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If you believe in the moral of it then it's not signaling in the first place. It's only virtue signaling if you do it just to get acceptance or mating or something like that (e.g. I love barbecue but this girl I'm trying to date is vegetarian so I pretend I don't like barbecue to signal that I'm a good match for her).

The usage of the term 'virtue signaling' is almost always a sign that the person saying it isn't being intellectually honest - it's usually just meant to be a putdown.

ogogmad an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

if a boycott is a virtue signal then your comment is a vice signal

lkey an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

People who don't believe in virtue see all virtuous acts as 'virtue signaling', or, a lie for attention.

You are showing us who you are and what you believe, but you are not describing the parent commenter.

ecocentrik an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The term for this is ethical consumerism or conscious consumerism, defined as purchasing products that align with moral, social, or environmental values, acting as a form of "voting" with one's money.

Virtue signaling takes place wherever changes in group behavior are required by changes in conditions but calling it just virtue signaling is reductive. People are moving off of US services because of the behavior of the US government and US citizens.

theshrike79 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton_AG

> Proton AG is a Swiss technology company offering privacy-focused online services and software. It is majority owned by the non-profit Proton Foundation.

So how is the US "controlling" Proton, can you enlighten us as you seem to be more knowledgeable about this?

bryanrasmussen an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If I was outside of the US I would consider it as an effort to reduce risk, not virtue signaling.

If I was a citizen of a nation directly and recently threatened by the U.S I would consider it more as a "screw you" than virtue signaling.

This is probably because I am not especially caring about virtue, but I do like pointing out ways that alternate explanations for things some people might find virtuous could pertain.

QuadmasterXLII an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There are words and concepts that cut reality at the seams, and others that feel good and make you dumb as rocks. Virtue signaling came out the gate strong but has fallen solidly i to the second camp.

__bjoernd 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

How is Proton a US-controlled company?

nilslindemann an hour ago | parent [-]

Yes, how is Proton a US controlled company? At least in the German Wikipedia they sound like a group of saints.

fcarraldo 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Which of these is Apple?

femiagbabiaka an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

If we stay on the current path, in a few months tech will start to feel the pain of Trump's rampage. The only redeemable thing about that is that maybe tech workers and Americans generally will finally stop feeling like they're above it all.