| |
| ▲ | JoshTriplett 3 days ago | parent [-] | | > Thing is, they own it. No, they don't. They own the game data, and the original game engine. They don't own the reimplemented Open Source game engine. OpenTTD did not have to do anything here. It sounds like they had a very positive interaction with Atari, in which Atari is providing them with some support and collaboration, and in exchange for that, OpenTTD agreed to formalize the requirement for "you need to own the original game data" by having people on game stores purchase the original game through them before getting OpenTTD through them. That seems like a pretty reasonable approach. It should be held up as a good model for collaboration. But it shouldn't be treated as "they have every right to [demand a] cease and desist". | | |
| ▲ | ApolloFortyNine 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Though it's no longer a clone, it literally was a clone when it first started (you were even supposed to supply your own totally legitimately acquired asset packs). So it'd be pretty much impossible to claim the engine came about as a clean room implementation. And of course, even if maybe they could win a court case (honestly don't think they could) the mere threat of one would likely make openttd quit. | | |
| ▲ | JoshTriplett 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | > you were even supposed to supply your own totally legitimately acquired asset packs I don't have the impression that OpenTTD encouraged or sanctioned obtaining those assets illegitimately. They talked about how to extract them from the original game that you owned. | |
| ▲ | TheCycoONE 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | CorsixTH requires Theme Hospital assets but we didn't clone or otherwise steal anything that we ship, we require you to supply the assets precisely because we aren't. I presume that's true of OpenTTD as well. In the United States copyright protection for games covers the art and text but not the rules and Oracle vs. Google established reimplentations being fair even when exposing the same api. Truely novel game rules can be protected by patents per Nintendo. |
| |
| ▲ | WarcrimeActual 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | They do own it. Any court would likely agree that what OpenTTD does is copy an IP they own. And they'd have the right to C&D it. | | |
| ▲ | JoshTriplett 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Reverse engineering for compatibility, and implementation of a compatible system (as long as you don't copy the original) are not just legal, they're explicitly legally protected in many jurisdictions. You'll get in serious trouble if you copy the original, but there is specific case law supporting things like emulators. See, for instance, Sony v Connectix and Sega v Accolade. | | |
| ▲ | gmueckl 3 days ago | parent [-] | | But OpenTTD is explicitly a faithful copy of the original. It replicates the original product in appearance and behavior and is open about it. If you were to dig into source code history, mailing list archives, chat logs etc. I'm certain that you could find a lot of evidence to support this position. | | |
| ▲ | JoshTriplett 3 days ago | parent | next [-] | | "Behavior" isn't copyrightable; it explicitly isn't, in fact. To what extent did they copy "appearance" other than supporting the use of the original assets? It is certainly possible that they didn't scrupulously maintain clean hands, but I wouldn't automatically assume that. | | |
| ▲ | gmueckl 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Show a set of random persons gameplay video clips from TTD and OpenTTD in its default settings and ask them which one of the two games they are watching. They'll be struggling. It is about the entirety of the product, not its parts. | | |
| ▲ | anthk 2 days ago | parent [-] | | That's the point of game engine reimplementations, but again OpenTTD has no original TTD worlds. Simcity 2000/3000 and Lincity-NG can look pretty close at a distance too, the same with FreeCIV and Civilization 2000. If the issue it's due to the menu layout and such that can be set with ease, GUI presets from original TTD and a 'new' one (as default) and call it done. Arx Fatalis itself it's a Ultima Underworld inspired clone. It's more than obvious. Deus Ex it's a weird Shadowrun retelling with better hacking depictions replacing the magic shadow ruling overlods with a panopticon AI and ripping off every US conspiracy from the XFiles. Both RPG's can be played in pretty much the same way: half stealth/half run and gun depending on your mood, augmentations, hacking to retrieve useful info, doing secondary errands, the cyberpunk theme... Halo does the same with Marathon and Bioshock borrows a lot from System Shock. | | |
|
| |
| ▲ | einr 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | GNU’s Not Unix is explicitly a faithful copy of UNIX. It replicates the original product in appearance and behavior and is open about it. |
|
| |
| ▲ | Cthulhu_ 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | It's... complicated; they own Transport Tycoon Deluxe, its code, its assets and its IP. Back when OpenTTD first released, it was a decompile (?) of TTD that loaded the assets of the game itself. This was... legally dubious, since reverse engineering. But over time they Ship of Theseus'd the game - all code rewritten from assembly to C/C++ (I don't know), open source asset packs, etc. It's still the same base game, same feel, etc but nothing of the original code or assets remain. I don't know enough about IP law etc to judge whether Atari would have any leg to stand on in a court of law, but it would be Complicated to say the least. | | |
| ▲ | Suppafly a day ago | parent [-] | | >Back when OpenTTD first released, it was a decompile (?) of TTD that loaded the assets of the game itself. Source? I don't think that's ever been true. |
|
|
|
|
