Remix.run Logo
butILoveLife 3 hours ago

Makes sense for short term damage control. However, I think in the medium and long term you end up having productivity hits from such measures.

I know its unpopular to say, but when I have my 2 programmers in office, we get sooo much more done than at home. Someone gets stuck and we don't message/call, we just talk.

Although, if you want to justify WFH, introverted-like people do not get the same level of benefit as extroverted-like people in this situation. The extroverted people will just start talking. The introverted people need to be asked.

throwaway82931 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> when I have my 2 programmers in office

I'd like to think that you see "my 2 programmers" as "my team" but I've come to expect phrasing like "when we have our 2 programmers in office". That perspective emphasizes that we're all in this together, rather than serfs working for the benefit of the lord.

The "my programmers" phrasing plays into my prejudice that one reason you like having "your programmers" in office is the exhilaration you feel in seeing them at your beck and call.

blell 10 minutes ago | parent [-]

Yep, your comment is deranged.

alexjplant 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I know its unpopular to say, but when I have my 2 programmers in office, we get sooo much more done than at home. Someone gets stuck and we don't message/call, we just talk.

The technology exists to "just talk" in high-definition audio and video. If somebody isn't asking for help when they're stuck that's a people problem, not a remote work problem. There are several possible reasons for their avoidance; if multiple people are exhibiting the same behavior it could be cultural (specific to your workplace, not the person's upbringing). Using physical presence to force their hand is curing the symptom, not the underlying cause.

butILoveLife 3 hours ago | parent [-]

But it gets solved when we are in-person.

We could develop new technology, research culture solutions... or... meet in-person.

a456463 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

you can just send "hey you got 5 mins"? you have to do that in person. you do that on chat. nothing different. this is a made up reason. I do this all day, everyday

butILoveLife an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I'm the manager. They do not send that message. They either are trying and never giving up, or... doing dishes.

I check in, and it ends up being story time about non-issues.

In person, its a 'hows it going?' and they say either 'good, still working' or 'stuck...'.

I would love if WFH was as effective. I could reduce my labor costs and probably have happier workers.

conception 3 minutes ago | parent [-]

Considering it’s very easy to send a how’s it going Slack message or whatever this seems more like a issue of keeping the conversation on task than a slack issue

an hour ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
roadside_picnic an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

> develop new technology, research culture solutions.

The technology and culture solutions have existed and been evolving for 20 years. It really sounds like your experience with remote work is not representative.

butILoveLife 9 minutes ago | parent [-]

Given basically 100% of companies ended remote work, its probably the majority experience.

roadside_picnic an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Sounds like you don't have a lot of remote work experience.

The majority of my career (years before the pandemic) has been remote work. I find in office work painfully slow. I pair program quite often remote, and when someone gets stuck we also "just talk". Honestly I prefer screen sharing to leaning over someone's shoulder (much easier to doing supporting work in parallel).

I find it really depends on the type of org though. Large corporate places do tend to suffer from remote work because so much of the work is performative anyway. Remote small companies and startups the velocity is very high, but you do need more senior people capable of independent work.

Especially when you factor in the easy of "after hours" work, the amount of emergency stuff I've shipped around midnight is incomparable to the 'in office' equivalent.

Though I suspect the key word here is "my 2 programmers", I find managers don't feel like their doing work unless they're physically watching it get done.

Not understanding how to run a remote team is not the same as remote teams not being effective in principle.

starkparker an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> if you want to justify WFH, introverted-like people do not get the same level of benefit as extroverted-like people in this situation

I'm introverted and did just fine in an office, because the company culture was that coworkers all talked to each other about how they preferred to work (preferably no more often than once a quarter) and then respected that. When we moved to WFH during lockdown, that practice continued.

I've also WFH at remote-first companies that did not practice, encourage, or enforce ICs communicating to find and document better ways to work together, and have not been served remotely as well by the result.

lossyalgo 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

So you're saying we should only put extroverted people in the office and introverted people get to WFH? ;)

butILoveLife 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Honestly... maybe... I've thought about this.

But I also am a bit reluctant to hire introverts for this specific (entry level) job. They will not ask for help to their and my detriment.

Being a bit casual and not making grand claims: I should hire Senior introverts and have them WFH. I should hire entry level extroverts and have them in person.

2 hours ago | parent | next [-]
[deleted]
a456463 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

so you are accepting that you discriminate and acknowledging the in office unfavorably favors extroverts which is what everyone in this thread has been saying.

3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
apercu 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That's not a global issue though - I have people who I have worked with for years, we're highly productive and we've never met in person.

Especially these days where it's soooo easy to chat, video call, share screens, etc.

butILoveLife 3 hours ago | parent [-]

But would you be more productive in person? I am just describing my experience. In a 4 hour block, people will ask a dozen questions in-person. WFH, I'm lucky to get a single phone call despite begging them to call to ask questions.

moooo99 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I entered the workforce during covid, underwent a return to office mandate only to get a new job that is fully WFH.

I am easily twice as productive in my own hive than I am in the office. The office is full of distractions, noise, it is not as ergonomic as my setup at home and i get to waste 90min a day commuting.

In some very specific instances i see value in going to the office, productivity during everyday work is not among them

butILoveLife 35 minutes ago | parent [-]

I know what you mean. I'm not sure why my office doesnt have distractions. We take breaks, but its not like when I was at a fortune 20 company where I'd spend an hour drinking coffee and catching up with people in other departments.

If I had to guess, we are such a small office that its obvious if someone is distracted and I can nudge them back to work.

Saying all of this outloud, you are making me realize I have the office style of a panopticon. At least my workers seem to genuinely like working.

Plasmoid 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm not sure that counting "How it's going?" as a productivity stat is the win you think it is.

butILoveLife 34 minutes ago | parent [-]

When they say 'stuck...' and we fix a problem, I'd count that as a win.

vaginaphobic an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

idiotsecant 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Sounds like your problem is that management hasn't provided the right tools to be productive.

butILoveLife 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Go ahead.....

a456463 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Sounds like a yes and you don't know how to manage.